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 Silver Investment Discussion, An alternative to Gold....

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shahjaafar
post Feb 6 2014, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 3 2014, 03:50 PM)
Hi guys,
Am thinking of ways to reduce or totally eliminate the impact of 6% GST introducing in April 2014:

1. If we purchase directly bars from overseas / mints -- since it is duty free, we would be able to avoid the GST? Certainly we need to purchase in bulk and need to do the clearance ourselves (or through courier company), but this is still manageable if we have group purchase to share out the "load" / cost. Also, we might be able to trade them in secondary market and become the trader?

2. Can participate in oversea on-line purchase and storage program such as Kitco Canadian / Hong Kong program? Not so sure would there be net saving? Need to study in details.... anyone can share?

3. Purchase from SG (no GST by SG government), no GST in Malaysia because was purchase in SG? Non-taxable as it is silver bar not coins?

4. Any other methods?

Kindly comment.... we have ~15 months to figure out the best way.... time is running.... icon_question.gif

If Item (1) is workable, we forumer here can start group purchase oredi..... rolleyes.gif
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XtraLeoGecko, I like your ideas.. rclxms.gif I am willing to participate in this bulk purchasing exercise if you are ready to do one. The only issue is trust because I would expect that 1 person must take that responsibility. I had done 1 such purchasing exercise with supersilver and it worked out very well so I think it can be done.

For suggestion # 2 I have never done this method due to my belief that if you don't hold it, you don't own it. so nothing much for me to contribute there. brows.gif

For suggestion # 3. I like this idea also but also involves someone to go and pick up the pms in Singapore and bring it back for everyone. icon_question.gif Again I am open to this idea also.

Right now, I am finding a little bit of success of picking up silver in bulk (2kg and above per transaction) at a flat rate. Surprisingly I am finding lots of maple leafs, ase coins and silvertowne, scottsdale bars with these transactions. Mostly due to people leaving the silver market and going into the various gold schemes which are available out there. The rate that I am getting is between 2.50 to 2.80 per gram... which makes the maples, ase and others at about 77.75 - 87.08 per ounce.. Still not the best deal but I think still good. Stock is a problem at the moment.. vmad.gif so I am just buying what is available.

My 2 cents..
shahjaafar
post Feb 7 2014, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 6 2014, 02:03 PM)
Up...up...up... 20+/oz again... rclxub.gif 
want to buy more at <19.2, no stock pula rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  doh.gif
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To all,

The SuperSilver Group in Facebook is planning to make a group order. The details are below:-

Silver coins:
A) 2014 Austrian Philharmonic 1oz
B) 2014 Maple 1oz
C) 2014 Maple reverse proof 1oz
D) 25th Commemorative Maple 1oz
E) Privy Maple (Dragon/ Snake/ Horse) 1oz
F) 2014 Royal Mint Lunar Year of the Horse 1oz, UK
G) 2006 Canada Wolf 1/2oz (Original mint plastic)
H) 2011 Canadian Wildlife Wolf 1oz
I) 2014 Canada Goose $20 for $20 series 1/4oz
J) 2014 Canada Bald Eagle, $100 for $100 series 1oz
K) 2013 Armenia Noah's Ark 1oz

[ Price ]: PM
[ ETA ]: 2 1/2 weeks-4 weeks
[ Deposit ]: Full payment
[ Contact method/ Details ]: PM
[ Delivery method/ Postage ]: Post Laju-WM RM8, EM Shipping at cost/ Self-collect in Cyberjaya/ Putrajaya.
[ Risk warranty ]: Buyer's risk while full refund in 7 days for any unsatisfactory on items.

[ Disclosure ]:
1) Order will be closed right after 14/2 (Fri.).
2) A Facebook group conversation will be set up for price list/ enquiries/ item description/ progressing.
3) The price might be different follows Friday closing spot. You will be informed the final pricing before we place the order.
4) Each item will arrive in FREE coin capsule/ original packaging box/ plastic ziplock bag. Multiples of 20 will arrive in a tube.
5) If the actual arrival is late than the estimated ETA, we'll rebate the domestic postage to you means you'll get the domestic delivery for free later.

The order is being led by Nicky Lee (1 of the SuperAdmins). Just wanted to share with anyone that might be interested in purchasing with the group. Happy Collecting.. .

This post has been edited by shahjaafar: Feb 7 2014, 02:43 PM
shahjaafar
post Feb 13 2014, 06:08 AM

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It seems lots of people are selling their silver today... Just to share, I had picked up 5 x 1oz 2014 Perth Lunar Horse for Rm 100 a piece. Also 15 x 1oz Silver Bars (Silvertowne, Morgan, APMEX and Sunshine) for RM 71 a piece. Also 8 x 1oz Fiji Taku, 7 x 1oz ASE, 8 x 1oz Maples and other 1oz rounds for RM 78 a piece. That's the haul.

Just wondering why the big sell off???
shahjaafar
post Feb 13 2014, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Feb 13 2014, 12:24 PM)
Wow.. Where did u find those sellers?
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on the various facebook silver pages and internet... I saw lots of 1/2 oz lunar coins between RM 50 - RM 65 per coin... Interesting stuff... rclxub.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 05:56 PM

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Hey Guys, excellent and very insightful write-ups. I have to cry now, gone are the cheap silver that was available on secondary market. cry.gif It is slightly more expensive now but I guess that is relative when you compare the silver prices 3-4 years ago. I saw that there are scotia silver bars available for RM 85 per ounce... worth it??

By the way, I am leaving for Madrid next week with a stopover in Dubai. Anyone had any experience buying PM at both of these places? icon_question.gif

Thank you for suggestion. Happy Collecting. thumbup.gif rclxm9.gif

This post has been edited by shahjaafar: Feb 24 2014, 05:56 PM
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 24 2014, 06:08 PM)
I think it is still cheap at current prices. It is still a "bargain" price. If it goes to 25. I think it would be a different story.
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Thanks for the insight. thumbup.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 24 2014, 11:09 PM)
Hi guys, how is Public Silver bar?
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I think Public Silver has a healthy secondary market on the internet. rclxms.gif It seems to be quite popular but I feel that if you are going to buy and sell using the PublicGold platform, the spread is just to great for any short term gain. vmad.gif But then again, I know you are not in the game for the short term so I would say there is no real problem at least in Malaysia. It is considered a local "name brand".. icon_rolleyes.gif

Anything interesting you are seeing ?? icon_question.gif

Happy Collecting whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 24 2014, 11:19 PM)
I think it is best if you can go across the causeway. Singapore is trying to be the next PM hub. If you are going to buy a lot. Do consider Singapore. It is much cheaper. I am sure you do not want to pay a high spread and regret later.
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100% agreed. The rules and laws of Singapore for precious metal changed to suit the current purchasing environment. I believe there is no GST or tax on any silver purchase with exception to numismatic products in Singapore. thumbup.gif That is excellent news especially when the impending GST in Malaysia would be implemented next year. cry.gif

The only small issue is that the stringent rules when it comes to opening a bank account in Singapore. vmad.gif I would love to be able to transfer the amount (maybank2u like) to the bullion dealers that they have there to purchase, and then self collect. But it is such a small hindrance that I am sure that I will overcome it.

Any recommendations on where to buy the silver in Singapore??? rclxm9.gif


Thanks and Happy Collecting. whistling.gif


shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 24 2014, 11:25 PM)
Just go to any shop in Sg. You get a much better deal then this. If you are going to get 1KG and above, even taking a bus all the way from KL to SG is worth it. You can even store the metal with them. Why do you even need to pay such a high spread.
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Nice. When you say any shop, any particular area that you would recommend? For work I might be down in Johor every month, so a small side trip to Singapore might be well worth it. icon_rolleyes.gif


happy collecting. whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:32 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 24 2014, 11:27 PM)
Good, good... must try in my next available trip... hope won;t be considered as smuggle... brows.gif
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Well I don't think it is smuggling because Malaysia does not have any tax on silver. rclxm9.gif So it should be OK. and take a look at it this way.. they didn't ask you whether you had any silver or not?.. Ha Ha ha.. This is when ethics confronts with profit. Hmm which road do I take??? Good Luck. notworthy.gif

Happy Collecting... whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 24 2014, 11:31 PM)
Just not sure how "pure" is it although there is a local assay....

Am in manufacturing line / laboratory line too... it is not as easy to really produce 99.9 purity
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That is an excellent point. rclxms.gif My wife told me (I have to listen to my wife) don't ever buy the public silver... Spend a little extra and get the low premium international brand or pamps... so of all the silver that I have purchased, not even 1 public silver, but i keep seeing people selling and buying these public silver bars on facebook. icon_idea.gif

But as they say, to get a happy life, listen to the wife.. ha ha.. Please don't judge me as weak because it is not because I am afraid of my wife, IT IS BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AFRAID OF ME.. Ha ha ha.. icon_question.gif

Goodl Luck and Happy Collecting. whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 24 2014, 11:33 PM)
Shoe shop is generally the cheapest.

https://www.facebook.com/silverandgoldsingapore

You can find the prices at the excel sheet.

Note if you can buy 100 kg or 50 kg of silver, you get a special discount and they store it for you.

The shop i am currently buying at is bullionstar. They have a good web interface. I bought at bullion star because shoe shop did not offer storage service initially but now they do. They also have a very good vault gram program which offers you the lowest spread. But your silver will not be segregated. For me, I trust them and I think they have lots of integrity. I am going more for the vault gram program because I do not intend to keep silver for a very long time.

Better buy because I dun think it can go down below 22 already.
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I did go the facebook page, and trying to look for the excel sheet and I can't find it. Is there a section that I am missing. i would say 50kg of silver would be something that would be interesting but I would feel hell of a lot better if I am the one storing it here with me. I kinda like the philosophy that "If you don't hold it, You don't own it"..

But thanks for the very informative suggestions and a way to purchase from Singapore. I shall endeavor to investigate further.

Thanks and Happy Collecting. whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 24 2014, 11:44 PM)
I would not trust any banks. Even the gold and silver accounts. I doubt they even have the gold and silver in their vaults that matches the amount that is being bought.
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Another point that we agree upon. But I am looking at the Gold Savings Account from Kuwait Finance House. Very interesting since it is backed by the actual gold for every gram that you purchase from them. Furthermore in order for them to be the only "syariah" compliant gold investment system in Malaysia means that they have to have actual gold and not gold in fiat value for every gram that we invest.

Interesting but haven't really looked at it. When the work schedule lets up I will certainly investigate further. But still against my policy of "If you don't hold it, you don't own it". But just interesting.

Happy Collecting. whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 24 2014, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 24 2014, 11:47 PM)
Well, that is if you do not hold 50kg in your house. I rather not put so much of silver in my house. I think the laws in Sg are stringent enough. I mean we did once put in lots of money in the bank right? scroll all the way. you will see the excel sheet. In order to find discounts, more effort needs to be put in.
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Well when it comes to silver and gold collecting, i believe anonymity is the best policy. Sometimes storing these things would not be so difficult. What is difficult is to avoid the devilish temptation to take pictures and show on the facebook the 50kg worth of silver all around you. If we can avoid that, not a big problem.

The other factor of anonymity is that we should never disclose where we put the silver right?.. So of course not the house.. too dangerous for the family but lots of other options.

happy collecting whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 28 2014, 03:10 AM

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Saw a post somewhere about the International Coin Show in Singapore at the Marina Sands.. 28 - 30th of March 2014. nod.gif I hope I have enough open time in my schedule to visit. rclxub.gif Going to see the silver scene in Singapore. Anyone else going? rclxms.gif

Happy Collecting.. whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Feb 28 2014, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 28 2014, 06:27 AM)
Pls smuggle a ton of it, n sell to us....
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I am not sure whether I can bring in a ton, since the car is small, but will try my best. Just wanted to see whether there is a big price difference or not..



shahjaafar
post Mar 4 2014, 11:22 PM

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QUOTE(taurusbull @ Mar 3 2014, 11:33 AM)
Smuggling is not investing.

Remember you started with your legal money. If you do what were suggested earlier, then

Legally buying silver in Singapore + Illegally smuggling into Malaysia = Illegal smuggled Silver in Malaysia kept by you.

The above is akin of not stopping on red traffic light, and the reason given is I always did that and I never get any accident and never caught by traffic police.

If you want to do that, then there are more lucrative smuggling activities than investing in smuggled silver.
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Not really smuggling, since there is no tax to bring in bullion and bars into Malaysia, it is certainly very legal. Agreed with your statement.

Happy Collecting whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Mar 4 2014, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(Bullionstar @ Mar 4 2014, 01:31 PM)
Yes, we (BullionStar.com) will be represented although not with a booth. For anyone interested in buying bullion or just discussing bullion at the show you can contact us at support@bullionstar.com.
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Very nice, once the trip is confirmed, I will definitely get in touch. Thanks..
shahjaafar
post Mar 7 2014, 07:45 AM

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QUOTE(taurusbull @ Mar 5 2014, 05:32 PM)
In Singapore, Gold and Silver  are subject to 7% GST with the exception list of Gold of Silver with 0% GST. The exception list that entitled 0% GST are mostly Government legal tender coins (ASE, Maples, Panda, Philharmonic and etc) and a few LBMA certified 100oz Bars.

In Malaysia, all Gold and Silver are tax free with the exception of Silver legal tender coins. Silver coins are legally having 10% Sales Tax and 5% Import Tax.

I am quite sure hardly anyone buy 100oz silver bars, and few people invested in 1kg silver bar in Malaysia.

For your information, all silver rounds and bars (1oz, 10oz) are always cheaper in Malaysia than in Singapore due to the 7% GST in Singapore and No tax in Malaysia. For Silver Government Legal tender coins (ASE, Maples, Panda, Philharmonic and etc.), there is 0% GST in Singapore and 15.5% Tax in Malaysia.

I will be surprised if any investor will buy 1oz/10oz silver bar/round in Singapore. I am 100% sure Malaysian will only buy Government legal tender silver coins in Singapore, and smuggled into Malaysia.

For definition: bullion =  bar or round or coin, and they are non numismatic precious metals.

I hope you get the right facts.
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Everyday we learn something new... the reason to go to the show is to actually see the prices that is being offered. And from there a real decision can be made, without any speculation. The knowledge gained is valuable at least for me. Once the pricing situation is known, then and only then I can make the right decision.

I am not going to argue on the 100% statement on the buying pattern of Malaysians, because I can only speak for myself and no one else. But I do appreciate the lesson on what is taxed and what is not. From here and other experiences that I have had only adds to the knowledge bank.. which is always valuable.

Again, thanks for the lesson, and if I do go to this show, I will update on the price and options available in Singapore.

Happy Collecting.. whistling.gif
shahjaafar
post Mar 7 2014, 07:51 AM

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Received some news.. a friend wants to let go 150 oz of silver bars.. I am told it is the Sunshine Bar.. Haven't seen it yet, because I am not in country... looking at RM 2.50 per gram.. Interesting offer?.. Any thoughts..

If my math is correct, it is 4,665 grams, which makes the whole haul to be RM 11,662.50. A single 1oz Sunshine bar would fall at RM 77.75.... Hmmmmm .....

Happy Collecting... whistling.gif

This post has been edited by shahjaafar: Mar 7 2014, 07:54 AM

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