Can we use the safetrade like Lelong.com
in forum.lowyat.net buy and sell or Ebay?

or only service just provide to lelong forum?

No. We're not related to Lelong and we do not get whatever amount it is they get for "Safe Trade".

This post has been edited by badawi_rocks: Jun 9 2006, 11:00 AM

Mind to tell how about ebay, do they have some similiar service like safetrade?

You should ask them.

They use Escrow on Ebay.....in LYN it sall about trust

How about collecting some fee, then set a place for them to have safetrade transaction? Just an idea, not sure if practical or not?

Might be a bit troublesome at first, but might be a big bucks to earn for Lowyat. And then, really lah... moderators or tradeenforcer might get paid already.

I would resign my current job and apply for this new job in no time.

well, here's just a suggestion...

have trusted focal points in each location. this focal point will act as a middle person for both seller & buyer (if both r not located in the same area or unable to provide cod transaction), and this focal point will meet up wit the seller @ an agreed location convenient to both focal point & seller and the focal point will inspect the goods based on the seller's description & buyer's expectation.

oh yeah, of coz b4 the meeting / inspection point, the buyer will have to bank in the full amount of $ involved in the transaction + delivery charges $ and also a small amount fee (to be decided - either charged to seller or buyer depending on negotiation).

this would be an ideal safetrade for LowYat Sales... basically it's a win win situation for all, buyer get the goods (not cheat), seller get to sell the goods ($ received) and focal point earns (side income).

wat do u all think? maybe have trusted focal point in each state, and allocate area in the state the focal point would be involved.

ya, agree to set up a"safe zone" lowyat

who wants to be the middle man?? for this safetrade thing.. its a very big responsibility and alot of things to track

hate to mention this again, but....

to turn LYN into a full-time trading site, u'll need more than some "safetrade" thingy to get things going. think of all the logistics and legal implications that has to be considered. plus i dun think there will be enuff professional manpower to actually police the site if it actually happens.

cheers.

deathbringer thanks for bringing this up... and yes i do agree wit u the lack of manpower.

like i said, to get focal points, we need trusted members in every state. maybe wat we can suggest is an appointment from the moderators from the trading section, identify those trustworthy and give them an extra tag like mine "safe trader"... maybe put a new tag "focal point trader".

wit this new tag in-place, basically its up to the seller & buyer to decide if they wish to go thru this middle person aka focal point coz this transaction will be charged accordingly. so its still stand by Lowyat.net law of ...



basically, either the buyer / seller will have to pay $ to this focal point for this transaction depending on the deal arranged.

for example : abc wanna buy NokiAROla from def. abc offer rm100 n def agree. abc will bear the poslaju fees n def agrees to pay the focal point charges. so abc will bank in rm110 to focal point (nearest to def), and focal point arrange time to cod wit def, inspect the goods and pay the money to def. def will have to pay the focal point the transaction charges. focal point will then deliver the goods via poslaju. end of story... abc gets the good, def sold the good and focal point earns. everybody wins!

You may arrange focal points yourselves, but they will not be sanctioned by the forum.

nice suggestion...but here r the cons:

1) trusting a middleman to conclude a deal is still risky, and IMHO, no better than just settling everything via the good 'ol "bank-in and poslaju" method.

2) how much do u think the middleman would charge for his/her services?? too little and it wouldn't be worth the effort. too much and he wouldn't be much of a use. how much would u pay??

3) this method is too troublesome, especially for the middleman. Eg. wat if there r 10 persons who can't meet on the same day @ the same place? or wat if the middleman can't make it on certain days??

4) who is gonna volunteer for the post? the mods most probably have their hands full at it is. plus we all have day jobs, ya know?


that's why LYN would never become the next "eBay" in the near future.

cheers.

deathbringer i hear ur worries buddy... this is wat i can suggest...



wit a trusted focal point, the risk is reduced! and yes, there'll always be risk too, but in the real business, everything is a risk... no pain no gain, right?



how much? well... i wuld say its a mutual agreement. if seller willing to meet at the focal point's preference (meaning, focal point no need to waste much petrol / toll / parking), exp : workplace, home, etc. i wuld say RM10? if focal point need to travel meet in the mid point convenient to seller, i wuld say RM20? and this focal point charges is a mutual agreement between the seller & buyer, whomever agrees to pay.



well... this focal point aka middleman knows his / her responsibility. u wanna earn side income u gotta take initiative even if cant meet @ same day or same place. basically, weekend sounds good , or maybe during office hour whereby focal point dont have to go out at all, or maybe night time at any nearby mamaks?



no volunteer pls... later con-man volunteers and cheats how? this spoils the main purpose of having focal points... i wuld say the moderator chooses the best candidate from the trade zone and from various states. moderators themselves can be involved if they wan, coz this is an extra side income. and yes we all have day jobs... so do i... but i do trades a lot during office hour or after office hour whichever is convenient... this is just my suggestion.



YES but it serves as an alternative portal to lelong / ebay.

so if one buyers from US, the focal point?


If you want to buy from forum, buy and sell with trust and intergrity.
and for those conman who are conning, if you feel suspicious, refrained from buying. and usually those offering the more than value stuff are the one to watchout. Wanna buy, buy with the safe trader tag.

This post has been edited by stevanistelrooy: Jun 9 2006, 03:13 PM

stevanistelrooy bro... i believe its best if we can get ONLY local sellers, so which means we have ONLY local focal-points... buyers can be anywhere. from US, Aussie, UK... as long as they r willin to pay the $ 1st to the focal point to deal on behalf. then the focal point will deliver the goods accordingly...

meaning... if the seller & focal point are in the same state, the focal point acts as a middleman to complete the transaction... and wherever the buyer is, the focal-point will deliver the goods to him / her. this way, we can MINIMISE cheats (not fully 100%) and MAXIMISE our security...

ain't it a little unfair to those who are outside from malaysia?
LYN is World wide. Not only for Malaysian in Malaysia.
Sometimes, those in overseas can get cheaper stuff compared to the one in market in Malaysia. If focal point created, then this trade is useless.
And how you can trust a focal point? They can con also you know
When in desperate mode, human can do anything although he is known as a good..yada yada..

This post has been edited by stevanistelrooy: Jun 9 2006, 03:21 PM

stevanistelrooy well... i know its unfair, but how many oversea lowyaters who r always doing trading may i ask...? r they a frequent seller or just a 1mth 1 item kinda trader?



like i said... its just a suggestion to MINIMISE cheat and MAXIMISE security. yes, i agree when humans r in desperate mode, they wuld do anything... but this is a win-win situation for all, the focal point earns an extra side income. imagine every weekdays got 2 deal, 2 x rm10 x 5 days x 4 weeks = rm400. so imagine every month got extra rm400... its a lot ler (to me lar...)

The vast vast majority of trades here are safe and have been conducted to the satisfaction of both parties and while your idea might further reduce this number, it also increases the cost of doing business and increases the time taken. It also involves 3 parties rather than 2 which means there are 3 points of failure. Someone who you think you can trust may turn desperate one day and siphon your money. The assumption that there is more security makes us more careless instead.

We are constantly looking for ways to increase security and improve our forums in general but this is definitely not a route we would be taking. Even among the cheat cases we've had the majority of them were easily preventable had people taken common sense steps. However like what nexus- said you can appoint your own middleman if you like for your transaction. This however is not sanctioned by Lowyat.NET and is not policy.

This post has been edited by badawi_rocks: Jun 9 2006, 03:57 PM

Middle man ? I believe everyone in LYN already selling at dirt cheap price.. If find a middle man to do the delivery.. How much gonna pay them?

there is one other way i can think of that would bring the reality of safer trading in LYN closer.

my suggestion: do away with the members stores, bulk and garage sales section and instead, replace them with dedicated section with e-shops for rent. yes...FOR RENT. think of it as on online commercial real estate, or an e-shopping mall.

ok, basically it's something like the current member store section, but u'll have to pay for it and go through certain procedures.

here's how it works:

1) in order to set up shop in LYN or conduct any form of trading, one must apply for an e-shop. setting up sales threads anywhere else in the forum will be banned.

2) the trader must supply all relevant personal information, including a current IC photo(compulsary), IC no., address, tel. no., bank accs, etc. to LYN authorities. LYN will somehow verify the details of the trader. (not sure how it's gonna be done, but it's possible). also, the potential trader must be at least an active member who has joined LYN at least a minimum of 6 months plus have at least minimum 500 post counts (maybe that's not so important). this is to ensure that no-one will join LYN just to do sales but is inactive in all other aspects of the forum.

3) once details of the trader are verified, the trader will proceed to pay for his/her e-shop. rental should be reasonable, maybe around RM50-100 per month. most importantly, the trader has to pay an extra month's deposit (refundable) to LYN. (this will deter most conmen) maybe se7en could establish a maybank acc for LYN.

4) once all these are done, the trader can proceed to hawk his ware in his very own e-shop. heck, maybe LYN could even sell small advert links/banners on the main page for a very small fee, like say, RM10 a month. (like what LYN is doing now, only that the e-shops require just a small advert). the way the trader does his business is up to him, be it doing bulks, COD, etc.

5) LYN will limit the number of e-shops (eg. maybe around 100. so it's a first come, first serve basis). and perhaps set up new rules and regulations. (current ones will not be adequate). anyone caught abusing the system or perhaps get many complaints from customers regarding the services offered and quality of the products sold (i.e. fake goods, etc.), LYN reserves the right to evict the trader and keep the deposit for its own. and if con cases do turn up, at least LYN will have the conman's personal details.


IMHO, i think this is the easiest and safest system LYN could implement without much hassle. ok, maybe that'll give the mods/admin more work to do, but besides keeping potential conmen away, LYN could also make some side-income to keep down its expenses or perhaps use them to expand and improve itself. i've actually come across a few forums (not local) implementing a similar system. (i can only recall one selling books and the other selling software). i know most forummers will hate the system, but hey, there's no such thing as a free lunch. at least u're giving a little back to the people who actually made trading in here possible in the first place.

however, this system should only be for traders who intend to do numerous sales.

if a forummer decides to personally sell his PC/IPod/etc, another section will be created and the only limit to this section is that the entire sales value should not exceed a certain amount (eg. not more than RM500). that means total goods sold by the seller should not exceed that amount. so even if conmen decide to strike here, the damage wun be significant. anything higher than the limit, he'll have to get an e-shop, and if there r none available for rent, he can try his luck and ask an owner to let him tumpang (with a small fee of coz). of coz, if the owner unluckily lets a conmen tumpang, the owner shall bear all responsibility)

lastly, if a forummer and a seller does not want to follow the system and does a sale (maybe via PM), so be it. but if the seller cons him, he'll have no where to turn to and complaining to mods/admin will do him no good.

phew...long post. so, how about a trial run, eh??

or any other ideas on improving this system?

EDIT: i know LYN does not practice collecting personal info of traders, but it's worth a shot to stamp down on con artists in LYN. besides, the info does not have to be published for the public's scrutiny.

cheers.

This post has been edited by deathbringer: Jun 9 2006, 05:42 PM

DON'T QUOTE LONG POSTS UNNECESSARILY. -wK

1) Conman also can pay first(lose first) and gain later don't they?
2) And how you gonna verified all the details given? Nowadays, with photoshop, everything can be change with an ease, and conman also can send fake details. And how are LYN gonna verified it? Tell me.
3) conman can pay once and con more than that amount, don't they? Looks at those few thread at Trade Dispute.
4) And all those link, ain't that will be annoying if look on long term? When everyone pay to add a link, then imagine if there is 1000 referal links. So what you gonna see is referal link? Is that what you come to Lowyat.net for?
5) And with limiting it, some forumer will not satisfied. And you could see havoc in all the thread. Fishing each other customer, complaint on helpdesk, and all adds to the burden of admin/mod.

6) So, if i decided to sell off my one whole set of PC at price more than RM500?Expect me to open at least 5 thread alone, times other forummers, and you get a --answer it yourself--. And all this tumpang thread with payment does not benefit the seller, and LYN but to the rent owner itself. Ain't that what we called one sided benefit?

This post has been edited by wKkaY: Jun 9 2006, 07:37 PM

Its all a bit complicated isn't it? For the very reason that I see nothing wrong with what we currently have, I see no reason to make wholesale changes.

True, there may come a time where we introduce "e-shops", but that won't mean we'd remove our current Garage Sales/Bulk Orders.

And I repeat this - No collection of personal information. No collection of personal information. No collection of personal information.

stevanistelrooy: as i said, my plan is not perfect. but i've seen it being put into action on several forums. but one thing i forgot to mention is that traders are limited to the US of A. and yes, they do collect personal info from the sellers (i did try to apply b4)...social security number and stuff like that. they even validate ur bank account first (wonder how they do that). though i saw that response was not very good (not many sellers like LYN), but everyone can trade in safety there. some even said it was better than eBay.

yes, there's nothing wrong with the current system, but there's plenty of room for improvement, but not to the extent of becoming a full-fledge trading site.

well...at least it's good to hear that the "e-shop" concept is being considered.

It is very important to remember that trade thrives on convenience first. We all enjoy the excitement of being free to browse and buy on the spur of the moment (even if it is risky). This is something LYN offers right now, and that is why it is successful.

Because increasing security/safety is always at the expense of convenience and privacy, implementing too much red tape in the interest of safety may drive people away and cause people to lose interest in taking part in the activities here.

I think the admin/mods will always have a difficult job monitoring the Forum for abuses. But they are doing it well, IMHO.