i read before that open gl is much better than direct x, just that, no one is using it, right?

Actually, Open GL is better because literally everything that is not Xbox and Windows uses Open GL. That includes, OSX, iOS, Android, Linux, WebGL, Sony Consoles, and Wii. I think most of my work software like AutoCAD runs on Open GL too. John Carmack did said that Open GL won this gen because so many platforms out there uses Open GL while Microsoft is stuck on their own island. Considering that Open GL is platform neutral, even if I want to make my own Cheese OS for my toaster, i can use it as my media API too, unlike Direct X that is only confined in Microsoft ecosystem which as usual, Microsoft utterly loves to keep you in their ecosystem. I find it more annoying than Apple or Google in general.

Valve's Steam OS will use Open GL as it will make things easier to port software from Windows, mobile or consoles.

Other than streaming games, some possible new Steam features:



Source

Ok, the whole music thing is gonna be interesting. Hopefully Steam uses Foobar as its base for the music player.

This post has been edited by Cheesenium: Sep 24 2013, 11:58 AM

It's a stand alone OS for the living room - this ignores the fact that steam already has functionality in the living room with big screen mode.

So it's an entirely new OS built just for games. This means that you won't have a useful OS that runs spreadsheets and pretty much does everything under the sun. This is great for gaming though, as more computing resources will be used for running games.

This means 2 things - 1. they're building a console. 2. you can't use that excuse that you're buying a new pc for productivity.

Valve wants to leave the whole Windows ecosystem before they lock it down to be a closed ecosystem. What is known so far is Valve's Steam OS is based on Ubuntu so i guess you might still have the capabilities of running work related software while Valve does sell productivity based software at its store.

A brave but risky attempt, it is necessary as i think traditional desktops are kinda on its last legs now where it will probably disappear in a decade or so. I am still contemplating to get another gaming level laptop for some mobility or get a desktop with zero mobility.

They really need a reliable offline mode before they ship the OS.

i think they wanna build a console where the user has the freedom of using whatever hardware they prefer?

maybe the steam box is just a very special cpu case?

Windows will never be a closed ecosystem unless for some unforseeable reason RT actually becomes the dominant OS on the planet. Windows/xbox marketplace are actually very light implementations of a walled marketplace compared to ios (on tablets - since apple doesn't have a pro version) and on chrome which is entirely walled.

What valve is trying to do is create their own closed ecosystem. So it is actually a really confident/(brave?) and clever step that they're taking - they already have a larger subcribed userbase that xboxlive, so gambling on a steam box is a natural progression for the company. I suspect it's going to be the same with everyone else with apps + games (just nicer looking bacause of specs).

Also, we're talking digital distribution and the death of physical retail with the steambox. I seriously suspect valve will actually go always online with this. The steam box pretty much like going down the same route as the xboxoneand you know what? they will get away with it.

I think this will be the case with "minimum steam specs". Hardware makers will be falling over themselves to sell "certified for steam" hardware.

inb4......

Steambox certificate version 1.0 AMD APU @ X spec
Steambox certificate version 2.0 Intel CPU + AMD/Nvidia GPU @ Y spec
Steambox certificate version 3.0 Intel CPU + AMD/Nvidia GPU @ Z spec
Steambox certificate version 4.0 Intel CPU + AMD/Nvidia GPU @ Z+ spec
Steambox certificate version 5.0 Intel CPU + AMD/Nvidia GPU @ Z++ spec

All just like intel centrino/ Intel ultrabook cert.
All Dell/MSI/Asus/lenovo start selling diff steam Steambox certificate consoles @ diff price target diff casual gamers

developer Happily Optimized the game specifically for various steambox's, so it run more efficiently and easier for them to debug, because only a few fix set of hardware.

Trine 2 require Steambox certificate version 1.0 to run
Battlefield 4 require min Steambox certificate version 3.0 to run
Battlefield 4 require recommended Steambox certificate version 5.0 to run

next year update with steambox cert 6.0/7.0 with new faster hardware. Console market affected because their hardware stuck for 7yrs. steambox dont.

Read this: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013...am-dictatorship

Valve plans to remove itself from the stores as it wants the users to curate its content than keeping everything to only themselves so that people having their own stores or put their own content. At best, I am expecting an ecosystem that is similar to Android where users can tweak it to their needs, building their own hardware if they want to or put on content without asking for google's permission. As far as I know, Valve never really wanted a closed walled garden like Apple's system but they want to invite the developers and the users to be part of the content creation shown by its support on the Steamworkshop. However, it is quite clear that they want people to keep using their Steam platform but with some freedom in submitting content.

At the same time, i do not believe that Windows will always be an open platform as it is just isnt what Microsoft is wanting to do because it likes to copy what Apple and Google is doing. Xbox LIVE is a completely closed system that is no different than iOS, except that it has a terrible patching and publishing policies that took years until now to be removed. I have no confidence in Windows 8 or generally Microsoft's future as they felt like they really have no idea whats going on where they really need someone who has a vision of the company's future like Gabe Newell, Elon Musk or Steve Jobs to lay down their transition.

On top of the whole confused marketing for last year's Surface that leads to its commercial failure and this year's Xbox One's marketing, I really have no faith in this company. For the first time, I rather move away from Windows to OSX or Linux when opportunity rises. At the same time, Microsoft isnt a global company compared to Google, Apple or even Samsung where it still only wants to focus it's services on a handful of first world countries while ignoring rest of the world. Does Malaysia even have official Xbox LIVE support till now? I like to buy a Surface Pro but I didnt want to see it coming to Malaysia after more than half a year later when the next one is only a couple of months away from announcement. Also, Microsoft was one of the companies along with Nokia and Blackberry that laughed at Apple for releasing the first iPhone that doesnt really need buttons to use its interface. Where is Nokia and Blackberry now?

Valve has to know that not everyone has constant internet connection where Offline Mode is essential. As it stands, Steam's offline mode is a pain in the ass which i really wont rely on it to be honest. Always Online has been proven again and again to inconvenient the end users which i hope Valve will not move towards there. At its current form, Steam is only bearable with its still poor online system.

Steam Box is essentially the same as Xbox One but one thing Steam doesnt have its Xbox One's confused marketing that only tell people about its shortcoming or irrelevant features. What about the illusive Family Sharing that they never really explained it? Why didnt they go further explaining the whole benefits of digital discless games? Instead, they just keep harping on that useless Kinect, live TV and NFL where half of the gaming population didnt care about. At the same time, launching in that few handful of countries where i'll never see Xbox One being officially supported in Malaysia.

I dont know where you get that from but Valve intends to offer their own console for more casual user who doesnt want to deal with hardware configuration. While advanced users still being able to build their own PC's with their own hardware configuration. It doesnt even want to lock people from their own Steam OS where you can install XP on a Steam Box if they really want to.

You are suggesting that a company that literally let users to build their own content via Steam Workshop to even pays some of them tens of thousands of dollars for using their content officially despite games do offer their own DLC, now, they want to build their own closed short sighted system like Xbox is just doesnt make sense.

Steam OS sounds more like Android for games. It looks like they want to simplified PC gaming as a whole with their own hardware and technology in similar ways on how they had simplified the whole game installation, distribution and patching that was a pain back then.

This post has been edited by Cheesenium: Sep 24 2013, 01:30 PM

In spite of what Gabe says, Valve wants a walled garden. They want their 30% (or whatever that cut is) of every sale, and they will get that on Steam OS. Having dedicated Steam OS consoles will guarantee them that. With the critical mass they have from their user base, they can achieve it. Whatever the publishing policies, curation or whatnot - If you sell a fart app on steam os, valve will get a cut of it. There's nothing dishonest bout that, it's just their business model.

Microsoft can't get 30% of every sale because you can install whatever you want onto a pc. VMS, emulators, shells, steam, origin whatever it is. I don't know where you get your believe that Windows will not always be open, but there's nothing out there that prevents you from installing anything(yes including the stuff that's bad for your pc like viruses). So yeah, I don't understand where your belief that somehow you will be prevented from installing stuff on your PC comes from.

I do agree big time with you that microsoft's messaging is confused. I have been quite vocal about that on other forums.

You mention sharing DRM. The new family sharing mode on steam is a fantastic addition to the service, however, that already means your steam needs to be always online. That's what they were trying to achieve with xbox one sharing but the legacy ties to retail prevented them from achieveing it. Steam has been all about digital distribution and as such has no such restrictions to making sure their console is always online.

@boldnut one of the advantages of a steam box and OS is to make sure that when you buy a game off steam OS, it will run on the system. Tiered specs just brings us back to square one. I am very sure the minimum spec will run every game on steam os, only it will look prettier on better hardware.

I don't see why one would want to dual-boot winxp and steam os on a steam box.

I've only been following coverage on the verge so I've not read everything, but the idea behind buying a game on a tv set top box (ie casual user) and not being able to run it does not make much business sense which leads me to believe that there will be minimum specs. Maybe something like an atom processor not being certified for steam box or something along those lines.

ios has 900,000 apps. I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of the apps will be crap. It's easily accessible to users to develop their own content. Its still a walled garden/ecosystem as you must still get those apps from the app store and give apple it's 30% cut. So I don't really see the difference between steam and ios in this respect. Anyone getting into the OS business wants to create an income stream and this is the best way of doing that.

Steam is essentially a wall gardened at its core but the way they manage this walled garden is different from Microsoft. Does Microsoft has something like Greenlight where the users can vote what software or apps they want on their store despite Greenlight is a massive failure? Does Microsoft allows users to submit mods and new models for their games? The most important point, does Microsoft actually want to remove itself from their store in the same way that Valve plans to do where users can have their own store. Project Spark is a good start but like everything else on Xbox One, it is too little and too late.

One thing that Valve has proven so far but it might never be like this forever is, Valve has always strive to provide benefits to all parties not just for the benefit of the company itself. The Steam store allows developers and publishers to sell their games digitally with 30% to 15% cut to Valve, which was never the case for retail, despite Valve has the power to change it to 30% to devs and 70% to Valve which they didnt. Even the Steam trading card system that was present on Steam, they are giving 85% of the selling price to the seller, while they take 15% of the price to distribute 3 quarters of the 15% back to the developers, despite they can keep 90% all to themselves while give 10% for the seller and developers to split if they want to. When it comes to cosmetic parts for Dota 2, CSGO or TF2, Valve did the same thing where each item that is created by community sold on the store nets 15% of the selling price to it's creator, if not, team badges or tournament tickets that is give part of its profits to the team or adds to the price pool. If Valve solely cares about profit, Valve can keep most if not all the profits from these items to themselves. In short, Valve seemed to always design their own systems to be a win-win-win situation for the creators, consumers and Valve themselves. I hope Steam OS will remain the same where their business model is a win-win-win situation for everyone which i never seen any other company doing so.



That is exactly why Microsoft wants a closed system that pushed Valve to create their own OS.

There arent much details on the Steam's Family Sharing where it could be that the lender can be offline to borrow a game. That would make things better, if thats true.

A tiered system is good, as there are times that hardware names are utterly confusing where there are at least 3 different i7 models that are completely different that confuses inexperienced consumers. If they can pull the same thing with system requirements like how they made patching far easier before by eliminating patch file hunting, that would be great.

I'll dual boot if I actually can get even 20% performance boost in games on same hardware where Valve found out that if a game was ported properly to Linux, say Left 4 Dead 2, they have the potential 200% performance boost on the same hardware but different OS. Windows in general has too much overhead that took a lot of resources, like the printer services are still running despite im playing a game and also why Windows is ported so poorly to their Surface.

Steam has over 3000 games where 90% of them are absolutely crap games. It is no different that every ecosystem has a large majority of rubbish products. Even Steamworkshop for Skyrim is filled with rubbish most of the time.

The difference between Steam and iOS is that the average Steam users can create content without going through their curation system like Greenlight via Steam workshop for supported games. If not, they'll have the users participate to part of the creation process like how they handled the Dota 2 beta with a lengthy beta that take gamer's feedback seriously. Does iOS openly allow people to test new iOS versions or apps without signing up to be a developer? Or allow people to submit mods to their apps without going through Apple? Everyone wants to create an income stream through their own ecosystem but Steam is so far the only one so far that tries to benefit its end users while providing simpler tools for users to create. Valve knows that they can never have the massive workforce that the gaming community has, so they develop tools to allow users to create content with Valve or other developers.

Steam is a walled garden but it is one of the walled gardens that gives users more channels to voice out or create content.

From what I've heard..

Your PC (Linux, Windows, OSX) --> Stream to --> Steam OS Box --> TV

so basically

Too many walls of text - so apologies for the briefness of responses



Windows is not a walled garden because on windows you don't need greenlight, you just make an executable and you distribute yourself through a myriad of different ways. You don't have to sell through the marketplace.



You can self distribute on windows and get 100% for yourself.



I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion since MS has neither made steam inoperable nor collected a single sen from Valve.



I personally think that's naive though i hope that you're right.

Indeed. I agree with this.

@linkinstreet i'm thinking the streaming would be via magic-air-midi-chlorins-wifi direct or what not. Otherwise what's the point?

Sounds like it is just streaming box from your Titan powered desktop so that you can play your games on your TV without bringing your PC to the TV or have a really long HDMI cable.

Heard there are 3 types of Steam Box. One is a cheap stream box. One is an official Steam box with some sort of fixed specs, like a console that is upgradable. The last one is customised and distributed by OEM. Kinda like Android now in some ways.

This post has been edited by Cheesenium: Sep 24 2013, 04:03 PM

but ... steam marketplace got more exposure.

not really.. i think lord gaben intention is to help 'office gamers' to play remotely in the office when the bosses not watching

half life 3 coming 2024 =.=....after steam box....after steam OS....after this.....after that...zzzz