Forumer you are complaining against: kennyscj

Item being sold/bought: Kason F9 LTD Badminton Racquet

Original thread link: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2260076/all

Date of transaction: 20th July, 2013 (Dont know why its stated 18th July on the receipt. Check out my first message picture. We met up the next morning)

Details of the complaint :

I was looking for a Kason F9LTD and I found this seller. In the beginning before purchasing the racquet, he was very nice in his SMSes. During the purchase, everything went fine.

It is now 1 month down the road, when one night I measured the Balance Point of my Kason F9LTD. It was a whopping 305mm! F9 is known to be an even balanced racquet with a balance point of around 280-285mm. Mine was way out of the range! So I decided to compare mine with my friend's. Wow, guess what I found on my racquet? Uneven paint jobs, a silver buttcap that isn't smooth, wrong positioning of the letters painted on the frame, etc. Disappointed enough, I decided to SMS kenny the next morning.

Kenny didn't really sound very happy in the first reply. I continued on a requested for a full refund since my racquet is still in perfect condition. He continued on replying very rudely and kept denying that it was a fake racquet. As wise as he is, he didn't even request for the pictures or proof on why I said its fake (fishy?). Just kept on denying and saying its my own problem and why didnt I go back to him earlier if its fake. Well, practically he's blaming me for trusting him. I went to AJ, Racquet Zone and Perfect World to check out their F9's and only 1 out of the 3 shops sells the similar racquet as mine, uneven paint jobs, etc.

On final words, I'd just like to say that this seller, Kenny, is a total different person AFTER receiving your money. He has extremely bad after sales service so don't bother disturbing him after he has received your money since thats the most important. Money. This case happened to me personally and I hope to warn all lowyat forumers to watch out what you all purchase from him. Especially those who have purchased a Kason F9LTD. This will definitely be my first and last time purchasing from such a rude and ignorant seller. For those purchasing any racquets from him and especially Kason F9LTD, I advise you to think twice and not get into the same situation as me. Paying full price for a fake racquet. Thanks for taking time off to read my story. Cheers.

By the way, anyone finds it weird why doesnt he ask for the evidence in the SMS? Just deny deny deny without asking for anything? Now expose already only ask for?
So as you wish, no proof means cyber threatening, got proof means you're officially a scammer? It has to be fair both ways.
Uneven paint jobs on both sides of the racquet



Wrong / Different positioning of the word on both sides.(On the original the letter 'L' on the word 'Low' is directly above the grommets, just like picture 1)



Silver buttcap that isn't smooth when scratched vertically


Extremely high balance point (Racquet isn't perfectly straight BUT in order to make it straight it has to be moved more towards the 'Twister' word, which gives an even higher BP)



Proof of purchase that supposedly comes with 6 months warranty


This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 26 2013, 10:56 AM

Messages between him and I

Oh and to add on, he has blocked me from commenting / posting on his Facebook AFTER posting my story on this page yesterday night
(Notice that the comment bar is missing)
Is someone trying to hide the truth?



This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 26 2013, 10:35 AM

the way he replies , so arrogant , even if its original i also wont buy from him lah , *** ...

I cant agree more with you. Look at the replies before and after I've bought from him. 180 degrees turn. Also, note one of the messages, he says that he believe his eyes and the truth. Does that mean that Im full of bullshit? Ahahah! Sorry if Im interpreting it wrongly but thats how I look at it.

still ur fault,because u dun check kaw2,n also the seller dun give warranty to you?

ya i m agree with that tooo , u have to extra careful when u buying online .

[quote=jie88,Aug 26 2013, 09:30 AM]
ya i m agree with that tooo , u have to extra careful when u buying online .


im not in any side, let this be a lesson to you that next time you must triple check the item kaw2 until satisfied ori!

Please spoiler your reply because of the pictures in it. Im sorry.

And yes, I expect a reply like this from one of you. Totally fine, but I can explain. If you head on to his selling thread, all you see is good reviews. Naturally you'll trust the seller more, no? So during COD I only checked the main parts / big wordings. This racquet is very well replicated I have to admit. You can only find clues from the smallest details on the racquet. It does supposedly come with a 6 month warranty but it was not discussed as shown in the messages above.

I admit, its partly my fault. But to sell a racquet of this quality AND he confirmed that it is 'purely original'? Your call, bro.
Moreover this is my first time purchasing a non-Yonex racquet, therefore Im unable to identify. I can identify a fake Yonex racquet easily.

This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 26 2013, 10:35 AM

its is fault or not his fault, selling a fake is unethical..

Yup I agree, for this part it is my fault. But hey, to be fair, does it mean that the seller is not wrong at all for stating that it is 'purely original' and giving me a replica racquet? Thats double wrong!

chill bro,let it be ur lesson,n try to avoid those buyer,come play badminton with me

Hey nonono, thats not all. I'm sending in a report to the Consumers Tribunal. Where is kenny? All the evidence he wanted are here. Hes not very wise. If he diam diam refund I would't even make a big fuss. Nobody would know and nothing would happen. Now all I want is to warn all my lowyat bros to watch out for this guy and NOT buy anything from him. Of course there are still people who will but its their choice.
Btw Im just a beginner. Cannot clear baseline to baseline, you sure you wanna play with me?

where u play?i wanna join

I play on Tuesdays at Champion Hall Kepong. PM me for more info about it. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for kenny to explain things here.


Last Active Today, 10:34 PM

No replies here yet?

This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 26 2013, 11:38 PM

If u wanna go to tribunal, wouldnt it be better if you to send the raket to a specialist for confirmation?

Yes I'd like to, definitely. Do you know where I could possibly find one? By the way I've also sent an email to Lining and Kason China.

This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 27 2013, 01:36 AM

last time i kena simillar case but not from lowyat and different stuff..what i do just file a report in website below

http://e-aduan.kpdnkk.gov.my/eaduan/main.php?lang=2

then there will be officer assist you, if the seller keras kepala then go to tribunal.

Sorry mate cant help u there.
Hopefully they will respond to ur queries.

Ahh thanks! This is very helpful. I shall file one also. Thanks!

Alright! Still waiting for the seller to explain here.


By the way,
Last Active Today, 01:15 AM

Seems like he's not replying here even after notifying him. Can the moderators please help out? Thanks.

The last option for u is to report to consumer tribunal and they probably might raid his premise.

He doesn't have a physical premise.

Anyway, I have posted up a warning on his sales thread and hope he could respond to this thread soon.

This post has been edited by fruitie: Aug 27 2013, 11:29 AM

Unfortunately he only does online business. He lives in Sri Petaling though. If I remember correctly.

Ahh thanks fruitie!

That doesnt mean the authorities cant raid his house.

And since when factories will sell to small/self-proclaimed company?
I know Yonex doesnt.

Nah, I don't think they will take it so seriously. He claims that he gets his stocks directly from Kason Factory as stated in the SMS.

I can get stock from "factory" too

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale/wholes...ton-racket.html

Well, his is from Kason factory in China. Directly.



Update - Last Active Today, 05:47 PM, Still no replies.

1 day only per week play?

Anythings Just refer

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4...58409197&type=3

This post has been edited by kennyscj: Aug 28 2013, 10:12 AM

A very good "reply" indeed. LOL LOL LOL

wow, that is very .... reply from the seller.

just, wow

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4...58409197&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4...58409197&type=3

Is it just me or anyone else also notice that the seller's demo racquet picture is exactly the same for both left and right photo? Even the position, shadow, alignment... so is it the same photo?


Attached thumbnail(s)

I superimposed the photo, the floor pattern match exactly.

Though the picture of the racquet, while it is not flipped, there's a possibility that just an angle change.

So unless the seller took the picture at the same place and at the same exact position for both side, then...

If you notice the wordings on the string, it is the same position too... which is very unlikely you will have the exact same position if the racket is flipped... so... Kantoi???

ARE YOU EVEN SERIOUS??! 300mm BP and I'll be near the T joint? Is your racquet extra short or something?? And how the hell would I know whos demo racquet or whatsoever? It took you so long to reply. Did you go and borrow an original racquet or something? Good try on the arrows. Look at the string wordings. Your stringer must be the best in the world to get the string at the EXACT spot. EXACT! In that case I can make my racquet look original also. I have one side that looks good and the other one thats out.

C'mon. This explanation is so not acceptable. Its pure crap explanation!

Thank you davlee and konakona for noticing this. Probably he has the world's best stringer and photographer to get the word and shadows to be EXACTLY the same. Seriously? Anyone with ANY racquet please go and measure. 305mm BP where is it located? Near the T joint?

Adding on, thank you for your great pictures,

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=436...&type=1&theater

Notice the letter 'L' on the LOW WIND word starts exactly at a grommet, and the E ends exactly on a grommet, and between L and E it is separated by 5 grommets? Thank you very much. Go and see my picture thanks. Look at the location of the 'L' is enough.

First of all, I'm NOT siding with this unethical seller. But truth is truth, and must be told.

Why you guys compare the pic side by side? Of course la its looks the same. Try compare it above and below. See what I mean yet?

Unfortunately, no I can't see what you mean. May I ask you to explain more?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what I can see is the difference, yes, but then the picture for comparison is in doubt. Left and right is almost the same, while it should not. So from there how can we make comparison up and down?

Hahaha... You just dont get the point yet...

If comparing above and below, so it is quite obvious that the buyer got a different racket than the seller's demo racket, am I right? So, it is rightfully that he can demand a replacement racket then?

Hello. Thank you for that suggestion of yours. I dont really get it but there could only be 2 scenarios.

#1. Comparing the picture directly up and down.
This isnt correct since the top left and right is my racquet and the bottom 2 is his. If there is a difference means mine is fake and I can demand for a refund?

#2. Comparing his picture top and bottom instead of left and right


Sorry, but I still dont see anything. Just look at the string wordings. EXACTLY the same.

Aha, I see now. So kinda like the seller dug his own grave.

Unless he can proof that the buyer changed the racquet.

No way I would do that. Theres a serial number on the racquet as well as on the receipt. And Im hella sure it matches if nothing has been changed.

Add on :

Please show me how you measure 290mm on your F9. I've made a video showing a whopping 307mm BP. Apologies for measuring it slightly diagonally as the camera was blocking me. Still, if not 307mm, at least 305mm. Where is your proof?



This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 28 2013, 03:05 PM

Make a digital copy of the proof. Just in case. Also, keep a timeline for information. Like when you get, and when you discover etc.

EDIT:

Don't forget to watermark your pictures and proof when you put it out like this.

This post has been edited by konakona: Aug 28 2013, 03:27 PM

Alright thanks for the tip. A picture of the receipt is shown in the first page. Serial number can be seen there. It is also on my racquet shaft. For the front few pictures I'll just leave it since I guess many people have already seen it. Im not good at video editing so I'll just let it go. For the other pictures uploaded after this, I'll watermark it. Thanks.

rarely see u here sis , only at maxis thread hahaha..good luck

Apis_LuaLua The seller is coming online but no more replying to the dispute. Shall we proceed to the next level? Thanks.

his thread, details and the link to this dispute already listed in the blacklist thread. Let see until when he gonna keep silent.

btw yes, he checking this thread just now.

i have nothing to dispute to him/her.

all the information i has give at my facebook fanpage.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4...58409197&type=3

You have to reply here.
Not on your FB.

Hahah! Guys, look!! He just showed that even his "demo racquet" is fake!!

The first picture he showed us,

Take of the same sides, hoping nobody would ever realise.

The second picture, posted on Facebook with the caption "Since consumer say I'm expert to do the photo shop. this is the another picture to proof it."

Look at it for God's sake. Look at the arrows. Its the same as mine! Explains why in the first picture he took of both of the same sides. Because the demo is also a fake?


So kenny, I have 2 questions for you.

#1. Why did you take of the same side in the first picture hoping that nobody would notice?

#2. Where is the proof that your demo racquet's balance point is 290-295mm, and that 300+mm will be near the T-joint?

Kenny, you're lucky that you have banned me from commenting or posting anything on your Facebook. Thats a very good and effective way to hide the truth from the world. I hope all of your so-called "Facebook FANS" will see this dispute.

This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 29 2013, 01:36 PM

Thanks fruitie. I think that there's no need to explain anymore. Look at the 2 pictures on my reply above. Even his demo is a fake.

Mods please take action. He still has another selling thread here.

This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 29 2013, 01:34 PM

I'm selling in facebook not in forum only. it is fair for the rest of the buyer also know these information not only in the forum

Really? Then why not let me comment in your Facebook page and let me defend myself from all the crap you're telling your customers?




I see his reply I also find it abit funny.

kennyscj What are you trying to show here? Your conversation with your Facebook Fans?

How you relate to the dispute logged against you here?

What the heck? I deleted his comment? How is that even possible?! Seriously..?

Newbieeeeee Since when you promoted to "Staff" or "Moderator"?

This is between you and him, nothing to do with me.

i just want to sharing all the information from my facebook.

I seriously doubt that F9 limited will have bp near n90 or as head heavy as N90... as mentioned by the seller...

If F9 as head heavy as N90, then it is not as easy to handle like it is now...

TS please make a thread in this forum , there are a lot of experienced people who help identify fake rackets.

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/for...ify-Fake-Racket

Seller respond is a link to his fb instead of replying properly to TS and addressing his concerns.

Nice seller indeed.

Go report police lo... talk alot for wht? If u right go a head... spend a lot time here for wht? Too free d???

You must be the "Kenny Looi" in Kenny Scj Fans Page.

I bet you will not say same thing again when this thing happens to you.

So, let's be considerate for whatever you post here.

yup, just simply support without knowledge. Even u bought 20 racquets from him, whats your point? u sure u buying an authentic stuff?

If we are not allowed to talk a lot here, then what is the used of this dispute section? This is also for the good of all others so that we can clarify things up from both ends hence other potential buyer can judge themselves or be warned beforehand...

Shhh! I was promoted to Moderator by se7en. Keep that a secret. Now I can delete comments which I dont like.

F9's balance point is the highest amongst all of my racquet here. I measured it together with ArcSaberFB, VT80PG, VT9 and Fleet Training Racquet 140g.

Hello. Thank you for the suggestion. Im actually a member of BadmintonCentral as well. Let me settle things here first. This joker seller has banned me from commenting on this Facebook page, and is now black mailing me on his Facebook. I cant even defend myself.

Yes definitely. Look at his replies. He's trying to make it a one-way thing. He's talking about me on his Facebook yet has banned me from commenting.

Yes New Member with 0 posts. I am indeed too free. You have anything against that? Why are you spending time here reading about my comments? You too free as well?
Dont forget that I can delete your comment anytime I like.

Thanks Apis and davlee. I think we should ignore the troll for the time being. Dont feed the troll. I think lowyat forumers have already seen Kennyscj's true face. Thats all I want.


p/s: And since I now have the power to delete people's comments, I shall delete his comment soon.

This post has been edited by Newbieeeeee: Aug 29 2013, 07:04 PM

Oh really? By what? By banning me from commenting on your posts so that everyone thinks that Im a jerk?
Now after digging your own grave by showing a 2 same side picture and a fake demo racquet, you wanna pull another person into this thing to make it 2v1? Please. Grow up. Yes, Im 17 and Im telling you to grow up.

TS, if the racquet is confirmed to be a fake/imitation, do consider making a police report if you have not. Else he'd just ignore and continue his 'original product' sales.

It'd help the case if seller had posted proper, detailed explanation on the specific racquet instead of messily throwing information in his FB but I guess he simply isn't bothered about it.

Good luck TS, hope you can get a refund at least. Am a badminton player myself (though super noob), so am very sad to see this kind of problem happening

This is a seller without kuku , only dare to keep avoiding , and when people doubt his explanation , he gives people no chance to defend himself by deleting and blocking people to comment . pui

Hey guys, thanks alot for supporting. I think that there is no point discussing this matter with this seller anymore since he wants to play an unfair game. I hope most lowyat members will see this thread and boycott sellers like this. It is indeed a bitter experience for me but I think enough explanation has been made. Allow his "fans" to continue supporting him and one day when they get it, too late. Hope the moderators will take appropriate action towards these kind of sellers. It is almost a week and therefore I am looking forward to him getting a Dispute tag as well as all selling threads closed. Thanks alot guys!

Hi,

Sad to hear about the fake racket you bought.

Just out of curiosity, wasn't there a serial sticker on your grip which you can scratch it to get a number and cross check at this website: http://www.kason.com.cn/fw.aspx to see whether your racket is original or not?

I'm also a owner of Kason F9 but not the limited version. My balance point is at the 'F9' word there.

And I did not bought the Kason F9 from Kenny.. haha



This post has been edited by PizzaBoy07: Sep 6 2013, 02:43 AM

Yes there is a sticker. But apparently it's so badly controlled that even the fakes can bypass the system and shown as genuine. If you compare with my pictures in the first page you'll find out whether yours is genuine or not too. Balance point at F9 seems better than mine. Probably 305-10/15mm. Good.

Oh my goodness.. I din know that fakes can even bypass the system

You said earlier that normal balance point should be at 280mm, than mine also can be fake? Since you estimated my Kason F9 balance point at around 305-10/15mm.

Does the way how the grip is wrap (i.e thick vs. thin) affect the balance point? I can't remember i read somewhere that if we wrap the grip thicker the balance point will be lower or in other word the racket head becomes lighter. Am i right?

I grip wrapping are normally thin.

so yours could be fake too? oh man, where to go to verify if fake or genuine?

I don't want to be making statements here but 290 is on the good side whereas 295 is a little on the high side. Yes you're right. Adding more weight onto the grip end is going to reduce the balance point. I don't have a way to 100% confirm that it is a real or fake, but if you were to compare your racquet with my pictures on the first page and find out that your racquet is similar to mine, then I'm 90% sure that its a fake. So far after comparing with about 10 racquets, I seem to be the only one who have this paint job problem. And also, no other F9 buyers from Kenny has reported in this thread. If your balance point is on the F9 then it should be alright. Try to make a comparison with my pictures and tell us what you find here.

Oh.. If by comparing my racquet with your pictures than it appears ok. No paint defect and its even. Even the bottom grip cap appears to be ok.

I guess the balance point issue is probably due to the way I wrap my grip..

Hope mine its genuine..

If everything is fine then it should be genuine, no worries!

although my reply is abit late

selling fake thing as genuine is a scam

it isnt warranty problem here

he is ripping off consumer implying that his product is genuine but in real selling fake things

is a very clear difference here

Thanks bro.

Btw how can I "apply" for a dispute tag for this fella? It has been more than 1 week. Shouldn't all of his threads be deleted? Apis_LuaLua

usually once case is open and you have inform the person dint reply at the thread

he will be awarded dispute tag but all his threads are remain