We can go on and on because property and UT is 2 different investment. Each has its benefits and weaknesses. All depends on personal preference. If really want to compare, property is also not the investment giving best return. Some business can give 1000% return per year. Property is nothing in comparison   

We should leave the discussion because it is a thread about FSM. Just like 1 week ago someone went to FD thread and question the FD player how they can beat inflation. That fellow thought those FD players didn't know there are higher returns elsewhere Likewise, it is not appropriate someone go to the Foresta thread and say some other projects can give better returns compare to Foresta.

May I humbly suggest you start a thread to discuss further instead of talking within this thread, which is about FSM ? It is a basic courtesy 

This post of mine prompted me to ask this question: If I take the borrowing, at what level must I break even?

After thinking through it and scouring my brain on what formula to use, I will use a slightly modified Alpha-jenssen ratio to calculate the above question:

Risk free rate (MBB 12mth FD rate) = 3.15p.a.
Cost of borrowing (BLR - 1%) according to Cheahcw2003= 6.6 - 1 = 5.6% p.a.
Benchmark rtn (KLSE Emas index) = 8.96% p.a. (source from Pub-Mut)
Annual Management Fee = 1.5% (source Pub-Mut)
Assuming the beta is 1.0 i.e, similar to market fluctuation, no better, no worse:

The minimal ROI to expect in order to just breakeven =
[MER + Risk free rate + Cost of borrowing + Beta x (KLSE benchmark return - Risk free rate - Cost of borrowing)]

= 1.5 + 3.15 + 5.6 + 1.00 x (8.96 - 3.15 - 5.6)
= 10.46% p.a.

Let's look through Pub-Mut funds that has consistent performance of 10.46% p.a. with a beta of 1.00?

Sorry none of them has this. Hence it is a no go for borrowng to buy Pub-Mut fund.

Xuzen

P/s: I have discounted the one off sales charge of 5.5% since it is a one off event.

I surrender......   What specific anti-FSM comments you have ? All you said is just about property returns is better than UT in general. You could have go to Public Mutual thread and start the same thing there.

If you talk about FSM's charges is expensive, service not good, bad fund recommendation, etc etc, then I can accept this is relevant and constructive. But in a thread specific about FSM, you talk about your experience that the UT return is lower than property. This is another topic altogether. Please give benefit of the doubt those who discuss about FSM here know how to choose their investment tool. I am sure many of them invest in property too. 

People has been having nice discussion in this thread until the 4th version already. Just because 1 day you feel lonely, then you come in and say UT (not even about FSM) is not as good as property. Bro, you mean you only found out FSM is no good until the 4th version ?

Hope you don't feel lonely soon......  

haha, I understand 100% what you are trying to say. I was just pointing out that your opinion (which is legit) should exist in another thread, not this specific thread that talk about FSM.

When you accuse people can't accept different opinion, did it reflect on you that you can't accept different opinion too ? 

No, I won't ignore anybody's comment because I respect everybody's opinion. But I can accept anybody who ignore mine. I understand different people has different style.

I will stop here anyway because I have talked too much which is irrelevant to this thread. Apologies to the regular of this thread 

Ok bro understood 100%. Please continue do what you think is right.

Just 1 last question, if someone go the Foresta thread and talk about gold which has higher return than property investment, what would be the reaction of the foresta investor there ?

Mr Cheah,

I'm being serious and not looking for a war, u SERIOUSLY DO NOT KNOW MUTUAL FUNDS, ALL THOSE CHARGES ARE ALREADY REFLECTED IN THE NAV PRICING.

Personal attack ?    You were the one who say you are lonely, that is the reason you post your first comment here....

Foresta ? I am just giving an analogy. Don't know how you see it as personal attack. Apologies if you feel so. If you feel it is a personal attack, then all the FSM people here should feel your personal attack to them too 

It's those ppl who don't do any homework, relies solely on sales pitch to buy and then whine "UTs are a scam, I could get better returns elsewhere" that pisses me off.

Ok.......
I will ask for the last time...

Is it ok if someone talk about gold/forex as better investment than property in general in the foresta thread ?

And back to the karma thingy...

That is why I'm also personally against trading of commodities esp agricultural goods, those items are necessities to many, and yet greedy traders manipulate the prices to their advantage.

Stocks are not a necessities, u won't starve to death if u don't own any stocks. Thus if u talk about fund managers speculating on stocks, I've nothing against them.

A little contribution goes a long way.

If u kept thinking "well, everyone does it, so if I don't do it out of conscience, then I'm losing out", then when karma comes/God questions you on Judgment Day, don't complain.

Ok, then I am a communist.

Then I presume Mr Cheah also more than happy to live under a corrupt government bcos "the majority kept it in power, even though it wasn't won free and square", u are not willing to contribute your share to change the world that u are living in.

Ok, then I am a communist.

Then I presume Mr Cheah also more than happy to live under a corrupt government bcos "the majority kept it in power, even though it wasn't won free and square", u are not willing to contribute your share to change the world that u are living in.

 

I will try to ask a similar question in foresta thread when I am free 1 day 

wah wah, FSM discussion become wat edi.. offtopic until moon or mars edi bro and bang.. chill

Just want to know, which type of investment portfolio you've chosen? I guessed aggresive portfolio... and how frequent u top up ur portfolio? DCA or VCA? i apologized here first in case u alrrady mentioned in ur previous reply... thanks

Just want to know, which type of investment portfolio you've chosen? I guessed aggresive portfolio... and how frequent u top up ur portfolio? DCA or VCA? i apologized here first in case u alrrady mentioned in ur previous reply... thanks

You are slowly switching out from bond from 2000-2012 before you finally sold out all your UT, what is the reason ?

Downgrade On Binariang GSM Bond Hurts These Funds ...August 12, 2013
In this article, we update investors about the impact of the downgrade of Binariang GSM Sdn Bhd bond paper and offer some advices to the affected bond investors.
Is your BOND or BALANCED funds as listed here?
http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...?articleNo=3718

OMG...i kena Kidsave

then lagi pening....  
anyway,...will be studying to reorganizing my portfolio will try to cater US, Europe, Asia ex Jpn, Japan, Emerging Mkt (5 catergories) and will go to Eq 80% (for this 2 years)
I selected this due to the correlation of returns.....any suggestions? anyone?