Few months ago there was a crash between a Honda Accord and a Tesla Model S. Apparently some Merc driver cut off the Tesla, forcing him to swerve into the opposite lane. Unfortunately there was another car coming that way, and it came to a head on collision. Both passengers in the Honda died, the Tesla driver suffered minor injuries.

1990 Honda Accord:


2012 Tesla Model S:




Clearly the Honda driver was the most innocent one in the whole crash, but since he drove the worst car he was the one to die. Would passive, careful driving have helped him? Nah. There's probably nothing he could have done. Life is unfair.

So when you buy your next car, don't just consider resale value. Stuff like this happens all the time, and there are huge differences between cars, even new ones. Consider if a bit of convenience and a few RM are worth your life (and consider the huge medical bills that come up when you are heavily injured as opposed to minor injuries). A Preve CFE or a Kia Rio will do a decent job at protecting you and your family, and they won't break the bank. There are other cars that aren't as safe as these cars that cost twice as much.

The way I see it there are 2 classes: Contis and Koreans on one side and local and Japanese on the other (Preve CFE sits in between, new Mazdas are mostly conti, Prius C and Prius too, Fiesta S is Japanese (all other Fiesta versions aren't)).

Btw.: The Tesla clearly shows the importance of a crumple zone. The whole front end is a crumple zone, there is no engine that can be pushed into the interior of the car. So they could design it in a way that all the crash energy can be absorbed in that area. Apparently it worked.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 24 2013, 04:10 PM

Of course not. That's why I wrote from when the car was. It could have been a Merc, a Volvo, the outcome would more or less have been the same. 2 dead, driver of new car walks away. But some people think old cars are very tough, perhaps even better than new ones. Clearly that isn't the case. Also, some people think as long as I drive defensive and not fast I'll be fine, even if my car isn't so safe. Clearly that too isn't the case.

No, since there is for example a significant difference between a brand new Camry 2.0 and a brand new Kia K5, VW Passat, Ford Mondeo, ... or between a Vios and a Kia Rio/Peugeot 208/Ford Fiesta LX for example.

@pomen_GTR: Not that I know of. The Model S is an all new car. The Roadster was Lotus based.

Yup. There are a few old vs new tests, and it is always the new car that is winning.

(I do that knock knock test too though It just makes me feel better.)

You can check EuroNCAP, IIHS, NHTSA, ANCAP, CNCAP, ASEAN NCAP, ... but those are hard to compare at times (CNCAP is very different from the others, ASEAN NCAP hasn't tested many cars yet and don't do side impacts yet, but the advantage is they test Malaysian spec cars). Also spec levels are different.

Generally speaking I'd want ESP/VSC/VSA (different models different names) to help me avoid accidents, and I'd want 4 or better 6 airbags to protect me from side impacts, because those are quite dangerous.

Also, generally speaking the bigger the car, the safer. So D segment > C segment > B segment > A segment, when the rating is the same. But only when the specs are the same. Having side airbags makes a big difference when there is a side impact.

Statistics show way more people die in Malaysia than in Western Europe on the roads. So you are basically saying God hates Malaysians?

All things being equal, a safe car will protect you better. Your CHANCES of survival are simply much higher. It doesn't mean you are invincible. It doesn't mean you can drive like nothing can kill you. Drive sensible, and drive a safe car, and you should be alright.

Well, the problem with the City is the lack of side airbags. Since ASEAN NCAP didn't test side impacts (yet) that deficit doesn't show up. A Fiesta is still a much safer choice (except for the Fiesta S, all other models are fine), so is a Peugeot 208 or a Kia Rio. Likewise with the Jazz. The CBU hybrid Jazz is fine, the CKD one isn't, and the regular Jazz isn't either. The results you find from overseas are probably for cars with 6 airbags, and the CBU hybrid is the only one that offered it.

One of the two US organizations that do crash tests has tested a Prius with and without side/curtain airbags. Otherwise it was the same car. But the difference was huge. From more or less deadly to perfectly safe.

Side/curtain airbags: Fiesta LX hatchback, around 70k? All the other Fiestas except for the S too. Kia Rio. Peugeot 208.
Side airbags: Preve CFE. Polo sedan.

I think he means auto locking doors once you start driving. That was a standard feature on most cars I believe... though these days it isn't anymore. It was removed due to cars not unlocking themselves after an accident, and that being a security risk. Which I think is ridiculous, because if the car doesn't lock itself I will do that myself... and then the car will still be locked after an accident.

My Kangoo auto locks above maybe 7 km/h...

But really, I might even prefer not having that feature. That means that hopefully you'll remember to lock the car once you get inside. Otherwise there is still a certain time frame from getting inside until you've reached the necessary speed where you are in danger. I try to remember locking the car once I get inside.

@darkdevilrey: Toyota salesman? Malaysia got no floods? Robberies? It's not the safest place in the world either. Europe hardly has those nature catastrophes (at least not so deadly ones). So Europeans are beloved by God? Quite a few Europeans are atheists these days...

@gold member: There is no such thing as absolute safety. But you can for example go through a poor, dangerous neighbourhood, wearing a flashy Rolex and a suit and an expensive looking suitcase, or you can avoid going through there, or, if need be at least be low profile about it. You just try to do what you can to be safe, and you're more likely to be safe. That alone is worth it, IMHO.

That study is ridiculous. Cars in general have become much safer. In Europe trucks aren't popular at all, yet the deaths have gone down significantly. It's not the increase in trucks that helped. I would't be surprised if those things actually make roads less safe.

I don't think they think about that. Or they believe in fate and God's will...

Amongst those the Preve CFE. But Proton _may_ upgrade the CFE sooner or later to 6 airbags. They've said something hinting in that direction.

@Balanced: The chances for fatal accidents in Malaysia are actually very high.

Scratched doors etc. are the same to repair no matter if Viva or Rolls Royce. (More or less lah... of course Rolls Royce the paint may be more expensive, and workshops will want to charge more cause you look rich )

Also, don't forget there are 50 shades of grey between being alive and dead after an accident. The Tesla owner WALKED AWAY. Had he driven lets say a Vios he might have been badly injured, but still alive. Maybe for the rest of his life he will sit in a wheel chair? Maybe he can't work as a doctor anymore? Getting the best safety you can afford also helps with those things. Surviving with no injuries instead of some.

Btw. I'd rather have a car that prevents me from being badly injured, than having an insurance that pays me in that case. I prefer being unharmed.

@butthead: I'm talking about picking the car that offers the best safety for the money you have, or at least a reasonable level. If your choice is between Viva and Saga SV, pick the Saga SV. It is much safer. If your choice is between Vios, City, Almera, 208, Rio or Fiesta pick between 208, Rio or Fiesta.

Good points. I often see people put things on the airbag openings. Don't do that. That area will explode in a crash, and whatever is placed on there will turn into bullets flying through the air, and quite possible towards you. Also seatbelts are crucial at any speeds, even in a car park.

I think it's best to just auto unlock when the car deploys the airbags. At that point chances are also best that the central locking system is unharmed. When you turn off the engine it may auto unlock when you don't want it to. Besides, my car auto unlocks when I try to open one of both front doors. The problem with cars that don't auto unlock in an accident is that the passengers may be unconscious, and thus not able to unlock the car themselves while rescuers are outside and can't get into the car.

@MeToo: I'd appreciate a lack of bullshitting and trolling in this thread. Some people may actually think the Vios is a safe car. It is a bit safer than the Saga SV (which itself is safer than the Myvi). But it is still a relatively poor car that offers acceptable protection from frontal collisions but poor protection from side impacts (likewise the City, though it does pretty good for frontal ones).

I also agree that every car should have a reasonable set of safety features, which in the B segment means 6 airbags and stability control. That's base spec. Then on top you can add electric windows, electric folding mirrors, sunroof, leather, radio, fancy HU, ... but any car, no matter how empty the specs, should have the full set of safety features.

In this case it seems like a 3rd party may have driven unsafe, and caused 2 others to crash. The driver of the safe car survived easily, but those in the unsafe one died on the spot. So really it makes sense to get something that protects you as good as possible. Mind you, if the difference between cars is small, then I wouldn't care too much. Other things get more important. But at least a certain high safety standard has to be achieved to be worthy of consideration.

If the Tesla was crashed into I think the Tesla driver and passenger would still be fine, while the Honda that crashed into it coming from the other lane would have died. Both cars Teslas, then I think both drivers would have suffered from more serious injuries, but both would have survived. Both cars the old Honda, everyone probably dead. Maybe not so dead, but dead enough to be dead.

Peugeot 208 6 airbags. VW Polo sedan 4 airbags. Preve CFE 4 airbags.

You can also buy a second hand Focus for example, which will cost way less than that and I believe should be well speced...?

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 25 2013, 03:31 PM

Fuel consumption very high bro, and maybe at some point the cops will want to stop you for killing too many people.

The Vios, when only tested for frontal collisions got 4 stars. That's how safe it is, and even if it were safer it couldn't get more because of the lack of ESP. However, side impacts weren't tested. If they were, that rating would have to go down quite a bit because of the complete lack of protection during a side impact. The same should happen to the City.

@MeToo: The Vios is not a very unsafe car per se, the problem is just: It is about as safe as a 35k car. Sold at that price I'd say yeah, go get it. But they are charging 2x as much, MINIMUM. And in that price range you can find much, much safer choices.

Also one thing I don't like about SUVs and pick-ups is that their crash compatibility is usually quite poor. Yes, you'll survive, but you may very well kill others. A Fiesta that crashes into a Vios, both may survive, the Fiesta with fewer injuries, but both will be ok. But same speed, and a Ranger crashes into a Vios... Ranger driver will be fine, the Vios driver will be crushed. Even if it crashes into the Fiesta, the Fiesta driver will at least carry away serious injuries.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 25 2013, 03:39 PM

Side airbags are obviously useless for frontal impacts. But they do work for side impacts.





Otherwise they are the same car. Just side airbag vs no side airbag.

Safety belts are the by far most important system though. Without them, airbags won't be able to work properly and can very well kill you. With seatbelt and airbag the accident would have been harmless, with seatbelt alone it would have been survivable, and without seatbelt and without airbag it might have been survivable too. So really, airbags can be deadly when deployed without seatbelts.

Frontal airbags are important for frontal collisions, side/curtain airbags are important for side impacts. It's good to have all these safety systems. Side impacts are especially dangerous, and the airbags can make a big difference.

The reason why the Espace won was because it is much more modern car. Again, this shows the difference between modern and old cars. I doubt the test says much more than that though. However pickups are usually designed as work horses. For employees, not for families. I wouldn't be surprised if there is less thought and money invested there to protect passengers than in a family car.

Btw.: Isn't it nice that whenever they try to show a car is safer than another car, they use a Renault?

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 25 2013, 04:30 PM

Is it deployed though? In crash test videos it seems like only the frontal airbags are deployed... though sometimes they are. Weird.

Here's another video between a modern SUV and a modern C segment car. I have to apologize for the videos being in German... I couldn't find an English translation of them. The tests are usually conducted by the German version of the AAM.


Though the SUV was specially designed to be not to harsh on a smaller car. Both cars are driving at 50 km/h. The Golf did ok, but the interior was pushed in 23 cm.

The Kia Sorento wasn't as safe as the Volvo, which was actually good for the Golf cause the interior was only pushed in 8 cm.

Another one, this time worst case scenario:


Both cars are pretty safe, but one is a SUV, and the other one is A segment. Quite a difference...

@nagflar: There is no need for such a law (btw. 2 airbags are mandatory already). Proper education on safety and widely published comprehensive crash test results should do the trick. Some cars in Europe that are like the Kangoo were sold without ESP in the lowest spec. They did a moose test, showed them go turtle like the Myvi, that was shown on TV quite a few times, and quickly the manufacturers announced... oh yeah, ESP will be standard on all cars from now on. Same thing happened with the first A class... at that time ESP was only available in much bigger and more expensive cars. But due to the scandal... And even in Malaysia we have seen this: ASEAN NCAP tested the Saga with 1 airbag, it did awful. Proton quickly announced... soon all Sagas will have 2 airbags.

The media and customers are incredibly powerful, if they choose to make use of their power. The second round of ASEAN NCAP results should be published soon, on the 29th of August. They do intend to add side impacts sooner or later. I wouldn't be surprised if a year from now most cars will have at least 4 airbags (which of course means bad news for the RV of cars with only 2 airbags ).

Btw., the Citroen C6 had a pedestrian airbag long time ago. Volvo just copied them many years later... (of course, a big limousine is something different from a C segment car).

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 25 2013, 04:58 PM

Saga SV got 2 airbags, no?

In any case, I'd advise to look for a modern car. A 2008 car that was launched in 2007 will probably be safer than a 2013 car that was launched in 2002. Cars that were meant for Europeans are most likely to be safer too (cars meant for ASEAN countries are on the other side of the scale... so Avanza etc. are out). Safety features are of course a big plus. etc.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 25 2013, 04:57 PM

Persona is not recommended anyway. It is their oldest design, and probably very similar to the Gen2. The Gen2 was about as good as a Toyota Avanza, which means it's bad. The Australians also don't recommend it, even though theirs probably has more airbags.

@EP6CDTM: I think down the road RV of less safe cars will suffer.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 25 2013, 05:03 PM

Same rating bigger car bigger car should be safer. Also same rating newer car newer car should be safer, cause they keep increasing the requirements.

77 people or so. Do you have any idea how many die in Spanish traffic and how many die in Malaysian traffic? In relation to the size of the population?

Countries that drive safer cars have fewer deaths on the road. That is a fact.

Also I find it a bit offensive that you are trying to use this incident for your case. I have a good friend in that region, and she was traveling at that time.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 26 2013, 11:47 AM

Got 2 airbags. But a D segment car should have a minimum of 6.

The baseline Toyota Camry (US version) comes with:
ABS, EBD, enhanced VSC stability control, brake assistant and smart stop technology (if you press both brakes and accelerator at the same time the brakes will override the accelerator... damn, no heel+toe...). It has 10 (!) airbags. Whiplash reducing seats for driver and front passenger. Oh and it has a 6 speed gearbox.
Higher spec cars have blind spot monitoring and rear cross-traffic alert.

The baseline Honda Accord (US version) comes with:
ABS, EBD, VSA stability control, brake assistant, tire pressure monitoring, DRL. 6 airbags.
Higher spec cars have forward collision warning and lane departure warning.

Again, if the potential buyers would put pressure on Toyota and Honda, saying they reject to buy the car because of the lack of safety features, and either buy another brand or not buy at all, and there are enough people doing that, then soon we'd see those cars being fully speced. Same with Altis, Vios, City, Civic, ...

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 26 2013, 07:28 PM

Of course it can collide into buildings. Those inside may not survive it, but it will collide into buildings just fine.

I suppose it is a combination. Sales weren't so good (I don't see many new Camry on the road) and there was a public outcry over the removal of VSC.

There is no absolute safety. But you can do a lot to be as safe as possible. You don't go through a dangerous area wearing an expensive suit, expensive watch, sunglasses, ... you avoid going there or at least try to stay low profile. Driving an unsafe car is like asking for trouble. The difference between an unsafe and a safe car can be the difference between life and death, though of course there can never be 100% safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ated_death_rate

Road fatalities per 100000 motor vehicles:
Japan: 6.8.
Switzerland, Sweden, Netherlands, UK: 7.
Germany: 7.2. (Remember, no speed limit on 50% of the highways, and a country of notorious speeders. Drive at the speed limit and you'll have a long queue of angry tailgating drivers behind you, driving 10-20 km/h faster than allowed is the norm)
Australia, Norway: 8.
USA: 15. (Pickups aren't that safe I suppose? Also very distracted drivers who don't like to wear seatbelts... Wear your seatbelt campaigns seem common, haven't seen anything like that in Germany in ages, people just wear their seatbelt there. Makes a big difference...)
Singapore: 30.4. (How?!)
China: 36. (Better than Malaysia? Driving Chinese cars?)
Malaysia: 36.5.
Middle Eastern countries, African countries are even worse. I guess we can be lucky not to be in Togo.

A country where people love to speed... 7.2. Malaysia... 36.5. I suppose driving education and the cars driven make a difference...

But it's funny how Europe is clearly leading (together with a few other countries, but most European countries are on top).

Doesn't look like a head on collision to me. The Vios was hit in the front it seems, the Golf was hit in the side. Or perhaps a small overlap crash at high speed. Quite weird. We don't get to see the other side of the Vios btw.

They say it happened while overtaking, the Golf couldn't make it back on it's lane in time. That suggest small overlap, but also a crash that should have occured on the right side of the car. Look at the Vios, it is limping, the right side looks like it is completely gone, while the front left wheel is still attached. The door is dented, perhaps from the attempt to open the door. It looks much more like the Golf U-turning and the Vios crashing into it sideways, because the car is dented in a way that suggest the impact was on the right side of the car, and you can also see the left side of the front end of the Golf looking rather intact.

Doesn't match the description though, but how about the Vios and the Golf colliding, then the Golf spun out of control and into the pole you can see in the background (or another one we can't see). That's what has brought the car totally out of shape. That would also explain why the left front end of the Golf is relatively ok, where it should be completely crumpled.