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 Why driving a safe car makes sense

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6UE5T
post Jul 24 2013, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(mystvearn @ Jul 24 2013, 10:20 PM)
What under RM100k car has speed auto-lock? Also which under RM100k car has side curtain airbag? and both?

I don't think there are any...
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You can see from his nick that BMW is his car of choice, so none below rm100k when new. smile.gif
6UE5T
post Jul 24 2013, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(E34E36E46 @ Jul 24 2013, 11:17 PM)
Hey Bro, haven't you notice all the models are above 10 years old ?  brows.gif
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I know, but when new they're all expensive cars, right? smile.gif
6UE5T
post Jul 27 2013, 07:21 PM

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Phew, what a horrific crash!
6UE5T
post Feb 6 2017, 01:52 AM

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QUOTE(roocarroll @ Feb 5 2017, 06:00 PM)
I have two cars that both got 5 star Ncap ratings but for different versions.

My 2011 Accord and my 2013 Ranger both have only 2 airbags.

I bought the Accord after seeing Top Gear's bit on the difference between the 3 star rating and the 5 star rating on the Euro Ncap. They used a Waja to demonstrate the 3 star rating. I was driving a Waja at the time.

Now I'm wondering if these cars are safe enough. Neither have traction control or any electronic safety gadgets apart from ABS.
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It's ok la, no need to be paranoid. I agree that driving safer cars if you have the options for it is good but it's not the end of the world if you don't have one. Those electronic driver aids are only getting especially more popular in the last 5 years or so. Many people drive cars which are already 10 yrs old or even older without any of those because they just cannot afford to change cars too often to follow the latest safety developments of today's. People have been driving for decades in cars without any of those features and yet most of them are not dead, badly injured, or heavily crashed right? laugh.gif Safer cars is good but IMHO more important still is good proper defensive driving skill and attitude.

And yeah put on good tires, the best you can afford no matter what you drive, that is more important too! You can have all the safety features in your cars but if you're being a cheapskate by putting shitty tires and even worse you don't look after them, it's just stupid and I saw too many people are like that unfortunately!
6UE5T
post Feb 6 2017, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 6 2017, 04:29 AM)
That's like saying in the 18th century people survived too, right? Well, some did. Many didn't. But those that did, great for them. There are plenty of road related fatalities happening, and that number could go down significantly with safer cars. It has in places that moved on towards safer cars.

Anyway, many things contribute to safety. Good tyres (they are the only thing that make contact with the road!), safe cars that are good at surviving crashes, safe cars that are good at avoiding crashes (which honestly I prefer... it saves money, trouble, unnecessary injuries etc.), and of course safe drivers that don't fiddle with their mobile phone and that are courteous and care about others, too. Each of these things reduce the risk of something bad happening. Do as much as you can afford.

Everyone can be a safe driver.

Good tyres is also something most people can afford to do, even if that means not going for the largest, flashiest rims possible. Small steel rims do the job. Small rims lead to cheaper tyres, and steel rims are cheap so you can afford better ones, and afford to replace in time. I guess you all know this, but for example (in Germany) my Golf has 17" rims (15" would work too). But people have gone up to 20". For the price of 17" Dunlop SP Sport Maxx RT2 (probably what I'll be getting as my next set), which according to reviews are some of the best tyres out there, I can't even get 20" Nankang. Small rims mean you can afford good tyres. 15" Continental PremiumContact 5 are half as expensive as 20" Nankang, and Continental tyres with 20" cost 5 times as much as 15" ones. All for the same car that is. Maybe if others can see expensive tyres from a distance, people would be willing to spend on them. Maybe it's time to go back to white lettering on tyres...

Safe cars... if you buy a new car these days, there is almost _always_ an option that has good protection. Yes, that may mean you have to buy a Proton rather than a Japanese brand. So what. Proton offers cheap cars with 6 airbags and stability control. Now, higher end active safety features (automatic braking etc.) are only available on few cars, and they do cost more... The features themselves are relatively cheap, VW charges roughly RM 5k for lane assist and adaptive cruise control when you order these features with your new car. Also many cars from B segment up can be ordered with these features in other countries. It's a matter of customers demanding these things.
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Well as I said before, I do agree safer cars is good but I also said it's not the end of the world if you have relatively less safer car by today's std. I'm not disagreeing about safer cars, but if you already have relatively less safer cars does not mean you have to be paranoid and quickly try to ditch your car and change to safer cars of today's std, you get what I mean or not??? For example also yourself who is a strong advocate of driving safer cars, now in say the next 3 years if got newer cars with much batter safety than your Golf, will you quickly ditch your Golf and buy the newer ones like that? If you're rich enough then can but many don't. So in the mean time you can do other things to keep you safe while driving that older cars, like I mentioned by having better defensive driving skill and attitude and put on the best tires you can afford. That's my point, so please understand exactly what I mean before you comment.
6UE5T
post Feb 6 2017, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 6 2017, 01:47 PM)
Ok. Then we kind of agree anyway. What I say is when it is time to buy a new car, THEN make safety a key criteria, as there is usually a safe option that fits the budget.
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Yes but you may also need to be selective on the so called 'safety features'. IMHO so far only ABS, airbags, and VSC/ASM/TRC are good, the rest are still questionable, rubbish nonsense, or at least not important. I'd gladly trade off these other features like self brake assistance, lane change assistance, etc2. with cars that have better reliability, performance, and handling any time any day. Note also the more electronics you have because of those features, the more complicated the car will be and the more potential issues that can arise from those electronics and sensors. So for me I'd prefer to keep it as basic as possible, only choosing features which can be really beneficial like the 3 I mentioned above, the rest I will ignore.
6UE5T
post Feb 7 2017, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 7 2017, 06:31 AM)
Self braking has helped me already... it wouldn't have been a serious crash, but the car managed to react faster than I did. That is no surprise... humans have a very slow reaction time, the only advantage humans have is being able to see more/understand more and predict what is going to happen. However there are situations where you can't predict. That's where the computer helps.

Also the adaptive cruise control helps me save fuel and drive more consistent.

Lane assist has saved me a couple of times (keep in mind that I do sometimes drive 1500 km a day, and that it often is not possible to find a place to rest for 20, 30 minutes, sometimes even hours as lorry drivers are forced to rest at night here, and all car parks are completely blocked by lorries). There's no way I'd want to drive without it anymore. (And no, I don't drive any different from when I didn't have those assistants, guess I was lucky (and drove less back then). Also if I am this tired, I'll try to rest ASAP.
Never tried that, though I'd expect understeer. I think It'd corner better than a car without stability control though.
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What, you drive 1500km a day??? Sure not accidentally added an extra 0 huh?

6UE5T
post Feb 7 2017, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ Feb 7 2017, 07:04 PM)
There is this Taiwan car review youtube channel that I watch. The host always emphasize on safety, encourages the viewer to buy safer cars and is not shy about criticizing carmakers when their safety is not up to par.

At the same time, he always repeat that these safety features are only there to assist, not replace the driver. NEVER rely on these safety assists so much that you cannot drive properly without them, which from what I understand from your post, is exactly what's happening to you.

Please make sure you are up for the driving ahead, never rely completely on these systems. One day you may be driving a car without these features, and in your drowsy state failed to realize you don't have the safety net you depended so much on, to keep you away from the ditch. nod.gif
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Yup agree, people can get complacent thinking they're invincible coz they are driving cars full of such features. In the end that can actually backfire. His story above seems to indicate this symptom. That's why I keep saying, the driving skill and attitude is still way more important, and I'm still very selective on which safety features I believe are good.
6UE5T
post Feb 8 2017, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 8 2017, 03:34 AM)
Not every day. But usually 4 times a year I do. Every day I drive 190 km... in the morning 85, in the evening after a long work day another 85.

I can drive properly without the safety features, and I don't drive differently. I have caught the car last minute before I had the safety tech. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes I nap away even though I'm fully awake just minutes earlier, and can't even sleep if I try to. I try not to rely on the safety tech, cause I know there can be a road section without markings, there can be dirt in front of the camera, or really heavy rain/fog can disturb the system too... . But so far this tech has worked almost always (there's also a little icon telling me when it sees road markings). Even if you only ever need it once, you'll be glad that you've had it when that time comes.

And what the reviewer is saying is what I am trying to say, too. I'd like to add that you never know when you may need it. You may be the best, safest, most attentive driver in the world. But at some point you may get distracted, you may be a bit tired and can't find a place to stop/don't realize you're getting tired. Something completely surprising and unexpected can happen... remember the poor cop that had something drop from a lorry in front of him? How can you predict that happening? The computer would slam the brakes much faster than a surprised human being can.

Btw., we do have reached the point where some self driving cars are safer drivers than humans. Tesla is there for example, and Google is years ahead of Tesla.

Oh, and I'd like to know: When you change lanes, do you turn your head to the side to see if there's a car in the blind spot?
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Yes I do turn my head a little bit so that the corner or my eye will see the blind spots. The way I set my mirrors is also very much angled out to cover as much blind spot as possible even though that means I can only see just a tiny edge of the side of my car. I also replace my inside mirror with much bigger and wider ones to cover more of the blind side especially on my left. I've been driving basic cars forever now and have never had any accidents nor contacts in the last 20 yrs or so even when driving in Jakarta which is way2 much tougher than driving anywhere in Malaysia! Yet I'm by no means a slow driver also, but to the contrary, on average I drive much faster than probably 95% of the population (I hate speed limits!). That's why I trust myself more than those electronic assistance. As for self driving cars, like I said before, I want to see those in action in Jakarta or Mumbai or other similarly chaotic places and see if they can really work as intended.

Let me throw you a question now. Which one do you think is safer: a Proton Suprima/Preve with VSC or a Lancer Evo VII/III without VSC but only AWD & AYC and bigger better tires? Both about the same price now.
6UE5T
post Feb 8 2017, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(lsm1991 @ Feb 8 2017, 12:09 PM)
frankly.... the supreemah.... given the scenario where you are definitely going to get hit....
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Ok due to more airbags I suppose? But let me rephrase my question then, which one has better capability to avoid accidents/getting hit in the first place?
6UE5T
post Feb 9 2017, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(dman @ Feb 8 2017, 05:15 PM)
I do think both car has quite similar capability to avoid accident provided the DRIVER is fully aware and possessed sufficient driving skill and no other car around.

But having said that, the Evo should have better agility and stability of AWD to avoid it  icon_rolleyes.gif
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I also think in most condition the Evo will be better at avoiding accidents, not just due to the AWD but also the bigger/better tires, brakes, and suspension/chassis setup too.
6UE5T
post Feb 12 2017, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 11 2017, 03:18 AM)
Yes. Nice to have. It doesn't take any responsibility from the driver though.
Interesting question. For fun reasons I'd go with the Evo, for safety reasons with the Suprima/Preve (the structure is stronger, the airbags help too). Also the Proton, being new, should be more reliable/less problematic.

As for getting out of dangerous situations/handling... you may have picked a bad example, because Proton already handles relatively well, even without the electronic aids.

Are the brakes actually better? Plenty of modern family cars have stopping distances that would make Porsches from past decades green with envy.

Honest I have no idea which would be better at getting you out of bad situations, I suppose that also depends on the driver (normal drivers may be better with VSC, while more advanced drivers, perhaps with track experience, may be better in the Evo), on the situation, road condition, ... like on snow the AWD will help you more than VSC does. etc.
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Ah finally those words come out, 'nice to have'! Now I agree with you! laugh.gif

Preve may handle well for normal cars but compared to an Evo, I'd say it's nowhere near!
Evo brakes is ABS equipped 4pot/2pot Brembos and bigger sizes too, plus it has bigger wider tires to give the better traction to stop, especially if you compare to std Preve tires which is usually crap level tires!

I have a suspicion that the Evo even without VSC in most situations may avoid accidents better than a Preve, especially in slippery surfaces. My point is yes car with VSC is good but cars without VSC doesn't mean they're totally unsafe. smile.gif In the event of a crash, sure the Preve should be better but in order to avoid a crash in the first place, not so conclusive isn't it? Can be even the other way around. VSC is not GOD, and I've seen plenty of VSC equipped cars still got destroyed on their own, many still due to idiotic drivers. smile.gif Not all VSC are the same either I think. So don't simply put down cars or owners of cars without VSC before thinking twice.

QUOTE(geforce88 @ Feb 11 2017, 03:29 AM)
VII / VIII / IX is a beast to be driven. well depends on which type of vehicle u really want. if safety is your main concern, then sorry no Evo for u. not to say Evo is unsafe, but the urge of pushing the car to its limit is simply much more apparent in Evo than Suprima / Preve. if our own way of driving is dangerous and careless, we could lose our lives even in Volvo.
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Well that's the driver problem, not the car's problem. biggrin.gif The car itself yeah, a beast to drive, absolutely! The point I was trying to make with that question was stated in the above reply to bro Kadajawi.

 

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