I guess many of you are missing the point. The main grudge against that review is the dangerous way they carried out the review. So farking what if savvy can hit 170km/h? My waja and Gti can do that easily too. So can any car, given the right conditions. And the highway is not your place to do such tests.

RM150 is all you need to take it down to the track, and in real life nobody carries the car to that kind of speed all the time. Imaging the wear and tear involved! Real cars need good torque, one that the savvy is lacking. Also, the quality issues have not been addressed.

No matter what they say, its not really an honest review. More like an ignorant review.

Again you're missing the point. Myvi is made for the people, the people who drive it from point A to B and rely on the warrenties for repairs. They need a reliable car that is comfortable and fuel economic, especially the latter which is the whole reason for compact car's existence. The savvy is meant to be a zippy and fun car, and thus to say the savvy is much better than Myvi just because its good in handling is like saying a wrestler can be a president of a country just because he got big muscles and is stronger than the next candidate.

In terms of handling, savvy pwns myvi. But then, will that sell cars? Alfa romeo learnt that the hard way. In the real world, quality, reliability, comfort come first. Proton needs sales figures, not fun cars that dont meet the market's demands.

Ever driven a GTi or a Perdana?

And see the car bounce like a ship in treacherous seas.

Exactly my point. Both are made to satisfy different markets. Just so happens that the "comfort" market seems to be the majority, and the MONEY goes to P2. P1 gets to kick its CEO and swallow its words. That's the real world - unless you're ferrari (who was bought over by Fiat), you just have to make cars that sell, not cars that fun to drive but doesn't serve the majority.

Bad planning on this one, Proton.

Nope. Its only right to bash proton, and thank god the new CEO is finally responding to common complaints. Without criticism nobody will grow. Without the bashes nobody would know the various defects of Gen2 underneath that beautiful shell, nor anybody would know the hoo-haa TUV quality check is nothing more than just a stupid parody of what real quality is.

Unfortunately, while we want to believe that savvy did not sell because of Proton's reputation, you have to remember one Proton's self created problem - reliability. Myvi had toyota behind it. What does Savvy has? As I've said, quality sells more cars than a tricked up suspension and hard chassis. Proton's reputation does it no good as well - the Waja, Gen2 and Savvy are all cars that are hyped with great handling, but then even so proton's market share dropped significantly since the introduction of Waja and beyond. What does this mean? All those praises, great reviews about handling, and so on, DOES NOT MEET the market demands. The rakyat want a quality car for the money we pay for, who freaking cares about handling when your door handle drops off after one week? And power window self destructs after first service?

I drive a Proton myself, and I'm not happy with it because the whole existence of Proton denies us the abiltiy to buy better cars like Honda City and Vios. We have no freaking choice - and all we ask for, is a focus on quality, a car that will get us from A to B safely and doesn't forces us to fix it up so much. And what do we get? The complete opposite.

By the time you're singing in the rain with ur power window spoilt and the outside raining heavily, I would love to see your car's handling come to the rescue.

We all hope that Proton will improve. That's the whole point why we are bashing it in the first place. If everybody sugar coat their words and support blindly in the pretense of patriotism or plain ignorance, as these Proton supporters are, then tell me, how is proton going to improve?

I'm a basher, but I don't think you even know why I am bashing Proton.

Again I ask, so what if savvy can do 170 km/h? It can go up to March 10 for all I care, but if it cannot sell, and cannot meet the market demand, its just a failed car.

Well, the term "Gearbox" is an auto car refers to the whole Autogearbox. The term "gearbox" in the AMT, involves the manual gearbox AND the robotic clutch thingy. That's one extra thing that will potentially breakdown. How does that makes it cheaper to maintain?

I suggest you get a course in simple economics. The higher the demand, the slower the depreciation. Savvy doesn't have much demand last time I checked. Remember, its the demand, not the numbers.

Unfortunately, renault clio did not win the award because of the engine alone. The clio is a good car overall, with good quality and build. That does not exist in our Savvy, and I don't see how that makes Savvy a better car. All along Proton has very good engines from Mitsubishi. Notice the main complaints DO NOT come from the engine compartment, but from INSIDE the car or on its chassis. Get your priorities right.

Yep, no souls. Ferrari and Alfa Romeo has lots of soul, but no sales. And guess what keeps a company alive?

Reviews are not bad, undeniably. But remember, these reviews come from local magazines. Local people who have lived their whole lives with the inferior quality of Proton, thinking that that's what the international standard is. Unfortunate indeed that none of the Proton supporters here actually catch on to my main point regarding Savvy - please do quote me when did I say Savvy is a bad car? I remarked that Savvy is a good car with an attitude, but clearly cut for the spirited driving bunch, which in Malaysia is the minority. The reason I say Savvy is a failure is due to the fact that when Proton needed a mass quantity of sales (2005), Savvy failed to deliver the sales amount to breakeven on the expected date, and the R&D money is practically wasted down the drain after being over-shadowed by the success of Myvi. A company like Proton needs cash inflow to continue its existence, and Savvy is clearly not doing it any good. So how does these facts come out as empty facts and baseless statements?

Have you driven a Savvy before? Do you own one? If your source of information comes from reviews, then I believe that your statement's credibility, according to your own rules of credibility, is nothing superior than mine.

Hello my ignorant friend, please read back my posting to understand what I'm bashing about. Thank you.

Well, my whole family has been driving proton for a long time, and the most reliable car in our garage is the old 1986 Proton Saga. and that's with meticulous alfa-romeo style maintennance.

Savvy deserve a chance, yes, and Proton, with its new CEO, has my blessings. Right now they are doin things right, and hopefully Syed Zainal Abidin will continue this trend. But for Savvy, it came at a wrong time, aimed at a wrong target, and I believe that it'll be a miracle for Savvy to regain its lost ground. Maybe years later it might turn out to be a sleeper car like the AE86, who knows? But for now, clearly, its not doing any good for Proton.

I MAY agree with you IF proton is the world's top 5 biggest car manufacturers. Proton is a company with limited cash, and needs sales volume to survive. Savvy is meant to bring in sales volume, which it clearly did not. Yes, its bold to play around with niche markets, but unless Proton wants to be the next Ferrari, they have to make sure the cash keeps on flowing.

I hope my statement is clear enough to pinpoint my stance on this whole Savvy issue.

A politician and a common serial killer can both say "I'm a killer" and it will ring true but on different contexts for both parties. I'm a basher, but you're quick and insistant to label me along with those that bash just for the emotional fun, those that lack points and facts to back up their statements. That's your view, so none of my business, but well if you conveniently ignore all my points and choose to ridicule me based on your own stereotype, then sorry girl, you're just fighting the straw man war.

Economy I understand, and I understand selling as to the marketing, advertising and timing too. And guess what, the pathetic sales number of Savvy has to do with all of the above mentioned factors. The product itself is a worthy car for a niche market, and a niche market aint what Proton needs right now. The GTi and SRM is sufficient to satisfy such markets. Sadly, the former CEO who was a racer first and an engineer second, did not seem to realize this.

So tell me, how will Savvy do any good to Proton at all? Remember, we still need to work on the export market.

Well, then say what you want for my stance. To defend my stance would be unnecessary to the topic of discussion now. What I'm saying is not that once a bad car, always a bad car. What I'm saying is, keep it REAL.

Improvement of quality don't come in one single day. How many vendors does Proton has? 3000-4000 individual vendors, all distributing different parts to the vehicle. Where does the quality problem come from? Two sides - Proton's QC and the vendor's supplies. Now Proton's QC problem can be sorted out in literally one day. The vendor's ware's qualities however, takes months, even year to correct. A lathe machine and reconfiguring the tensions and tolerances of various items is not easy, not to mention the politics that ties the vendors to Proton! You can't just slap on a TUV label to Savvy and expect the rakyat to think that quality is better. It takes time, and if Proton is doing that, we would have noticed it. Savvy was the car that they tried to improve on, and from what I recall, that focus on quality only came AFTER the rumors of Myvi hit the public and toppled the public's anticipation from Proton. Check the histories - Mahaleel tried the quality play (100% marketin on quality "das isk perfek"), and when it still loses out to Myvi's launch, they changed strategies and marketed on performance - the only part where Savvy wins over Myvi.

Nobody is saying once a bad car, always a bad car. THe current CEO, Syed Zainal Abidin, EX-manufacturing director (I might be wrong) of Perodua (but he is definately from perodua), is doing just that - admitting the quality problems of Proton (unlike his predecessor), and announcing that they are going to improve it, and even announced the strategy, which sounds so good on paper. Mahaleel said Waja would never have failed power windows, and after that power windows failed after all, and consistently. Then came Gen2, with all those promises of quality. Again, it freaking failed. Too damn consistent, we have learnt.

I just hope the new CEO can turn Proton around. They lost the Detriot of Asia title to Thailand, they screw up the rakyat for 20 freaking years, and they lost the lucrative deal with VW on unreasonable reasons (patriotism and national interest my shiney ass). This new CEO know what game he is in - make it or break it. If the future cars does not work out, I'm sure we can all say this:

Good bye Proton, thanks for all the rape.

You have to understand one thing - exported models DO NOT have the same quality as local models. Alfa romeo pulled out from selling in the US because of quality problems. Early japanese cars were rejected due to its horrible quality, despite its pricing. Hyundai recently got better just because they finally got their quality problem sorted out. From here you should know that quality and reliability is far more important in the major international markets in the US, UK, Europe and Australia. Proton cannot survive there if they are to export cars of sub quality at premium prices.

So they improved the export market's quality and exported them. Why care for the local market? They have to buy Proton, they have no choice. No need to sacrifice margin for the local rakyat. The government is protecting Proton, and the common people have no choice but to buy Proton. Complain as much as they can, at the end of the day they got no choice but to turn to Proton. Why care?

Exported models have superior quality, that's the perception. And that's why the UK version of Satria 1.6 has so much demand in the local market.

This local vs exported model factor is one of the reasons why Proton bashers exists. Please don't associate patriotism with buying local. I associate patriotism with helping the rakyat - not helping the politicians screw the rakyat more. And that's by being an Anti-Proton guy.

5 May 2006 CARkeys
Road Test
Proton Savvy 1.2 Style

A Savvy Deal?
by David Finlay (08 May 06)

A marketing person once told me that if you try to appeal to everyone, you
end up appealing to no one. I was reminded of these words when I read the
Savvy press pack, which claims that the car will "transcend all age
boundaries" thanks to its combination of sporty styling, superior ride and
handling, low insurance group and low price (all designed to entice young
buyers) plus a wealth of features intended to impress older folk. That, as
they say, remains to be seen.

I take up a more definite position about Proton's claim that the Savvy is
"the ultimate city car". Marketingspeak should never be taken too
seriously, of course, but this is just absurd. One of the key requirements
of any city car is that it should be easy to drive, and most of the Savvy's
rivals, whatever their pros and cons in other departments, are just that.
The Savvy, to an almost unbelievable degree, isn't.

Or at least it probably would be if you paid top dollar and went for the
automatic transmission option. The car tested here is a manual, and it has
the spongiest clutch pedal I've experienced in years, along with the
stiffest, notchiest, downright cussedest gearchange of any car I can think
of on sale in the UK.

You might think this was because the car was very new, but in fact it had
more than 3000 miles on the clock when I got it. I'm forced to conclude,
therefore, that that's just the way the Savvy is, and that the effort you
have to put into changing gear at all (a common feature of city driving,
let's not forget) is just part of the deal.

On the open road the Savvy is a little more promising. Its 1.2-litre engine
produces a maximum of 75bhp, which isn't bad for the size. I'm not sure I'd
want more power than that; the car feels skittery on country roads as it is
- superior ride and handling, indeed! - and there's a bit of an issue with
wandering in crosswinds.

The shape, which is certainly distinctive, didn't appeal to any of the
teenagers who saw the car while I had it. Nor did they have the first idea
what the word "savvy" meant, which may not be good news for Proton
considering they surely represent part of the target market (or at least
they will when they have driving licences).

Packaging isn't a strong point either. From the outside you would think the
Savvy would hold four adults quite easily, but although there's plenty of
access (the car has five doors as standard) there's not a lot of room once
you're in there. The front has loads of headroom, but tall drivers won't be
able to get far enough away from the steering wheel and pedals; in the
back, conversely, legroom isn't bad but the rear seat is raised so high
that anyone six feet tall or over will find their head jammed against the
roof. Even in the city car class, that's well below average.

Luggage capacity is 207 litres with the rear seat up. It's split into two
equal parts to make the Savvy a three-seater with more luggage space, and
with the seat down entirely the volume reaches 909 litres.

The list price of the test car is £6995, though you can save £1000 by
opting for the Savvy Street. The Savvy Style shown here gets 15" alloy
wheels (the Street has 14" steel ones), locking wheelnuts, body-coloured
doorhandles and mirrors, electric front windows, air-conditioning (with
pollen filter) and front foglights. If you want the automatic transmission
you have to go for the Style, which in this form costs £7695.

All these prices assume that your Savvy is painted Chilli Red. There are
four other colours - blue, grey, green and black - and they're all
metallic, adding £300 to the cost of the car.

Standard equipment includes a reverse parking sensor, which of course is a
useful piece of kit on a city car. My only issue with it as that the
proximity warning comes in the form of a piercing squawk which, though
usefully unambiguous (you wouldn't mistake it for the song of a nearby
nightingale, for example), is also quite painful.

The same noise doubles as a sonic reminder that you're about to engage
reverse gear, and that means you're almost certain to hear it at least
twice in succession, since in my experience it's nearly impossible to
manhandle the lever into reverse at the first attempt.

Prices include six-year unlimited mileage bodywork warranty, three-year
unlimited mileage paintwork warranty, three years' RAC assistance and
vehicle recovery and a 24-hour accident care line. These, as far as I can
see, are the best reasons for buying the Savvy, but bear in mind that much
better city cars have pretty good support schemes too.

Price: £6995
Capacity: 1149cc
Power: 75bhp
0-62mph: 13.9 seconds
Maximum speed: 99mph
Economy: 61.4mpg extra urban, 49.6mpg combined
CO2 emissions: 134g/km
Insurance: Group 4
Proton figures.

Second Opinion:
The Savvy was not particularly easy or pleasurable to drive, especially
with regards to gear changing. While it was not too bad to live with for a
week, I wouldn't want the Savvy to be outside my house every day. It's not
much to look at, and screams budget at every angle. The price is quite
reasonable, but if it were my money I'd be looking for a more comfortable
second hand car.

http://www.carkeys.co.uk/road_test/proton/9969.asp

I think ur missing the point. The whole reason of comparing the original price of a car against another car is to determine its price to value ratio. Ignoring all other factors like import and excise duty, sales tax and so on, we can have a level playing ground in which to relatively judge all car's value.

Say for an example, you have a civic for 120k, and a waja for 60k. This is after tax. Let's say you take away all taxes and both cars arrive at a pretty similar pre-tax price, like 50k. Now, compare the features, build, quality and everything about both cars. The civic has I-vtec DOHC, the waja has I-have-nothing-not-even-DOHC SOHC. The civic has EL meter panel, the waja has normal meter panel. THe civic has lush interior with padded panels and good fabric, the waja has hard plastic. The civic has.... yada yada. Now at the same cost, the civic features far more features than waja.

You can argue that Honda has a much higher volume to offset the cost, but the fact is, Proton's stubborn insistence on producing sub-quality cars without addressing the issues that the rakyat care most about and even refusing to partner with other larger companies to increase their economy of scale, has eventually brought Proton to this realistic doom.

So from here its clear to see that the only way proton can compete is to put taxes on foreign competitors. However, this only guareenties Proton's survival in the local market. Being successful in the local market does nothing to improve the country's economy. It must export cars in order to truly help our economy, and when exported, again the price to value ratio comes to play. So who will buy a waja over a civic if they were to be priced similarly in say, US?

The whole protection thingy is a two edged sword. While it gives a good stepping stone for local companies, it breeds complacency, especially when applied to Malaysia where most of the rakyat are lazy and hedonistic in nature.

Exactly. Without government protection, there goes their "success".

Actually hypermount has a point. A car with a tough chassis with correct crumple zones along with safety features is a safer car any day than a softer car with all the above mentioned. However, about Savvy, the tough chassis is only a marketing term. How do we know how tough the Savvy is? Please understand that tough chassis for handling and tough chassis for safety is two very different thing - one is to hold the car together and prevent the least twsiting in the metals when cornering at speeds, keeping a level ride, while the other is having a tough, unyielding passenger cabin with soft front and/or rear that crumples in a way that does not kill the passenger. They are two differen areas of focus, and tested differently.

The rigidity of the chassis for handling is tested on the tracks, while the safety toughness of the chassis is tested in the crash room. So far, Savvy has not won any NCAP stars yet, no testimony to its supposed safety toughness in any official tests.

So until that happens, Savvy is still an unproven car.