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 Dota ~ vengeful spirit user please come

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TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 10:40 AM, updated 20y ago

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Hi Guys,

I like VS very much. VS is the only hero I use in DOTA.
Level 7 VS is very strong.
But after that at the middle game to the late game, I find that VS is very difficult to kill ppl due to her low hp. He die very fast.

After getting 2 wrath band, boot of speed(Issit worth to get power trend?,find that VS attack speed pretty slow, abit difficult to farm), ring of balista , normally I will build lothar edge. But what I discover that Dothar edge is good but still not give me enough damage to kill 1 on 1. I just able to kill by hidding behind my team hero. Need to wait until I got burize, only can come out 1 on 1. But that time still suffer for low hp matter.

I got fren suggest me BKB, but is no point to get BKB and lothar edge.
Got any1 can give me better build item idea for VS?

This post has been edited by ToGo: May 11 2006, 10:43 AM
xtr4
post May 11 2006, 11:02 AM

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go for sange and yasha.....gives hp, attack speed, move speed bonus: relatively easy to farm too

then you can move on mkb or butterfly.....

early farming, try to get hand of midas if you're having difficulty farming......it also helps attack speed

hope this helps
uhavenot
post May 11 2006, 11:06 AM

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hmm.. Vs is weak is hp... i guess u have to follow your teamates and backup them with your stun and swap... Y dun u try adding stats to add your life? Or if you wan more hp, you can try farming Eye of Skadi... biggrin.gif

Bkb is good.. At least you wont take dmg from magical spell... is good to avoid from getting stun or frost skill xD

Or you can try getting sange yasha and linken too.. btw, your talking about V6 VS or V5 VS??
RoxyMunky
post May 11 2006, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(xtr4 @ May 11 2006, 11:02 AM)
go for sange and yasha.....gives hp, attack speed, move speed bonus: relatively easy to farm too

then you can move on mkb or butterfly.....

early farming, try to get hand of midas if you're having difficulty farming......it also helps attack speed

hope this helps
*
same here~~ build sange and yasha~~~ rclxms.gif

power thread is essential to me in using VS as the movement speed is kinda... sweat.gif
TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 11:28 AM

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Both Ver5 and Ver6 I also play on VS. Mostly play V6
Much different?


Ya. I know VS always need to hide behind tanker.
I love swap, don't like to always keep behind.
But swap danger me alot of time, thats y i build lother edge for me to run.
I come to a situation is when my team mate good, and team work, I have great performance.

Mostly , I din add stat. Common Auro will help my team alot. So I focus that 1st. I don't mind i will none. I just want to make sure my team mate kill the opponent. That y i feel swap is pretty cool. Alot of time, for those team mate who dunno how to react to my swap, always risk me. I calculate the way to kill a hero by me and teammate attack same time. If can kill then i swap. But alot of time, the team mate din react or some even run away pulak. Then I die buta.

But when they not in the style for me, then suck. At level 7, I still can solo to kill. Once reach lv15, damn, mostly i just stun to run when solo until I come out with burize.
I got try on eye of skadi, yup, got improve my overall stat but can't give me damage which i need to kill. So I still prefer burize.


So u guys suggest me to give up lother edge and take sange yasha , then direct go into denfend item like bkb or damage item like mkb,butterfly , burize?
dennis5585
post May 11 2006, 11:29 AM

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i tell u wat... if v6...
u buy aegis... ofcoz boot and some cheap item like gg branch
then buy armor +10 then build aegis... depends u can farm o not lo... coz some ppl need dmg item to boost farming... but actually vs got command aura is quite easy to farm d...
TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 11:35 AM

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Beside, VS always the 1st target to be kill in team fight due to low hp and also the support ability such as comman aura and stun for VS.

When farming, they also always target VS to harrass and spam.
Alot of time, my VS die alot and kill few is not bcos of my ability. Bcos I always be the target to kill. Besides, my role is support, swap or stun for other team mate to kill. Those teammate who not understand will cry out me feed. Shit. They never think that is bcos of thier fault of dunno how to protect VS and support VS.

I also remember got 1 time, I stun for a luna to ulti qop, then luna din do it besides qop. she run to my back then only ulti,bcos of this, qop run away. this really funny.




uhavenot
post May 11 2006, 11:50 AM

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have you tried Deso?

i would like to share my playing style here for vs.. if opponent got INT hero, i would go for
BKB 1st then i will get dmg item like Deso or burize...

mostly i learn 1st , 3rd and ulti skill then i up my stats(ignore 2nd skill)... by the time im lvl 15 i will get around 1.4k hp.. good enuf for me thou...

its good to follow wit your teamates if they are using stun hero too.. nice combo laugh.gif
SUSfunkyboi
post May 11 2006, 11:57 AM

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try to swap lion, see he give u die or not.
u swap him, before you stun him he edi hex you.
then give you a few hit b4 impale and ulti, you confirm aiskrim.
SUSfunkyboi
post May 11 2006, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(ToGo @ May 11 2006, 11:35 AM)
Beside, VS always the 1st target to be kill in team fight due to low hp and also the support ability such as comman aura and stun  for VS.

When farming, they also always target VS to harrass and spam.
Alot of time, my VS die alot and kill few is not bcos of my ability. Bcos I always be the target to kill. Besides, my role is support, swap or stun for other team mate to kill. Those teammate who not understand will cry out me feed. Shit. They never think that is bcos of thier fault of dunno how to protect VS and support VS.

I also remember got 1 time, I stun for a luna to ulti qop, then luna din do it besides qop. she run to my back then only ulti,bcos of this, qop run away. this really funny.
*
your personal skill sux, nuff said. vs is a powerful hero, see those agi and int hero you 1 on 1 lane with them spam stun they edi cannot tahan.

TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 12:03 PM

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I got struggle with Deso and burize also,
But i din really use Deso. Bcos, when I use burize, the critical damge provided for VS is pretty impressive. That y I mention, when i fast enough to get burize, I can stand there 1 on 1 with strengh hero already, else b4 that, mustly have to run.
dennis5585
post May 11 2006, 12:06 PM

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buy aegis only la... vs should play as support ma...
swap one die one...
if u got aegis can tahan...

This post has been edited by dennis5585: May 11 2006, 12:07 PM
TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(funkyboi @ May 11 2006, 11:59 AM)
your personal skill sux, nuff said. vs is a powerful hero, see those agi and int hero you  1 on 1 lane with them spam stun they edi cannot tahan.
*
I din mention that VS is weak.
I also know that VS is a killer that is y I say at level 7 is a great.
Like you mention, swap lion, y dont u say swap rastha as well? see his ward kill u or not?
Of cos u spam stun hero on 1 on 1 lane they sure go home, but what if 2 hero focus spam on u? of cos u have to hide cos VS cannot tahan spam.

Here is discussing how to make VS not so easy to die at the middle to late game.

I know that you are a pro. But I am not. Of cos I can't compete with you 1 on 1 directly. Thats y I seeking help here. If I am pro enough, I don't need to seek for help here. I will seek for you to kill. Is not wise to say ppl skill sux. Every pro also start from noob. Agree?
TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(dennis5585 @ May 11 2006, 12:06 PM)
buy aegis only la... vs should play as support ma...
swap one die one...
if u got aegis can tahan...
*
I like to support, ppl who willing to support behind will only only bring out a great team work.
I like your idea,
I will try tonite.
Then swap will become the fearest ultimate
uhavenot
post May 11 2006, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(funkyboi @ May 11 2006, 11:59 AM)
your personal skill sux, nuff said. vs is a powerful hero, see those agi and int hero you  1 on 1 lane with them spam stun they edi cannot tahan.
*
lol yeah..u need skills.. u need to farm nice.. since u got your 3rd skill to help you to farm.. then it should'nt be a problem for getting deso or burize...

haha true true.. we are noobs once before we become pro..

uhavenot
post May 11 2006, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(dennis5585 @ May 11 2006, 12:06 PM)
buy aegis only la... vs should play as support ma...
swap one die one...
if u got aegis can tahan...
*
yeah support hero is good.. besides.. VS is not a tanker hero >_>
support your teamate will be good enuf...
xtr4
post May 11 2006, 12:30 PM

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ToGo: just ignore him (funkyboi).....as mentioned earlier, S&Y gives you HP (Str) and boosts damage (Agi) and attack speed, so that's the choice item for most play styles for VS
another thing, getting S&Y >> burize early game because of the above mentioned stats it adds

This post has been edited by xtr4: May 11 2006, 12:30 PM
achok
post May 11 2006, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(funkyboi @ May 11 2006, 11:59 AM)
your personal skill sux, nuff said. vs is a powerful hero, see those agi and int hero you  1 on 1 lane with them spam stun they edi cannot tahan.
*
boi, plz dont act like flizzardo thumbup.gif . i know u a good guy.
darkwolfie
post May 11 2006, 01:14 PM

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VS was the only ranged hero who can stun from range as well. This works ultimately to his advantage cause he can attack right away after stunning, instead of going close. This alone makes VS very strong and should own. Had never used VS in LAN games before, but VS had always own. And I think the suggestions here are very good. Perhaps I could use some myself.
SUSfunkyboi
post May 11 2006, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(achok @ May 11 2006, 12:36 PM)
boi, plz dont act like flizzardo  thumbup.gif . i know u a good guy.
*
wtf.
im good boy ok.
vs i always train him for tournament and he say its weak, means his skill sux la.
2 hero in your lan then your teamate dunno do anything?
u try vs and rhasta walk see who dare come
swap stun hex shackle snake.
achok
post May 11 2006, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(funkyboi @ May 11 2006, 01:38 PM)
wtf.
im good boy ok.
vs i always train him for tournament and he say its weak, means his skill sux la.
2 hero in your lan then your teamate dunno do anything?
u try vs and rhasta walk see who dare come
swap stun hex shackle snake.
*
lol who the hell wanna fight those hero without backup. 1v2 sure dead la.
TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(xtr4 @ May 11 2006, 12:30 PM)
ToGo: just ignore him (funkyboi).....as mentioned earlier, S&Y gives you HP (Str) and boosts damage (Agi) and attack speed, so that's the choice item for most play styles for VS
another thing, getting S&Y >> burize early game because of the above mentioned stats it adds
*
Ya. Demon edge is a bit hard to collect money. Show that S&Y provide increament in a balance manner. Really good to have a try.

Hmm sometime really impress when the non SA, bone player get holy shit. (heard that if SA and bone good in KS, can own easily). Ofcos , play with all noobs is not counted.
Really wanna watch 1 reply which VS can rule the game. But is not so possible bcos every of my game, i fast fast select VS, other ppl cannot select already. thumbup.gif
xtr4
post May 11 2006, 02:21 PM

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ToGo, i'm at work now..........when i get back, i'll see if i can dig out a replay with VS using S&Y.......i'm not the one playing VS, friend is.......not sure if still have it.........if i do, i'll post it up.........
SUSfunkyboi
post May 11 2006, 02:25 PM

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dun listen to him, sange yasha useless.
just buy the sange/yasha forgot which 1 di but add maim 1 enuf.
xtr4
post May 11 2006, 02:27 PM

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funky: sange adds maim (edited to reflect my noobness tongue.gif)

but why do you say it's useless to get S&Y?
i'm interested to know

This post has been edited by xtr4: May 11 2006, 04:59 PM
darkwolfie
post May 11 2006, 03:42 PM

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Sange (STR weapon) adds maim! Yasha adds speed!
TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 03:47 PM

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wou really look interesting . funkyboi, what you mean that is get sange to increase health and maim only then save yasha money for other better item?
wow , if this really make sense, definately here could come out a strong VS guidance.


TSToGo
post May 11 2006, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(xtr4 @ May 11 2006, 02:21 PM)
ToGo, i'm at work now..........when i get back, i'll see if i can dig out a replay with VS using S&Y.......i'm not the one playing VS, friend is.......not sure if still have it.........if i do, i'll post it up.........
*
xtr4, thanks you 1st for the reply and guidance smile.gif
Hopefully 1 day after i master those technique, can have a game with u then.
uhavenot
post May 11 2006, 04:00 PM

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if u just get sange.. your chances of maim is 5%
if get sange and yasha... chances is 10%
thumbup.gif

besides, yasha is good too.. it increases your attack speed and movement speed..
good for chasing hero biggrin.gif
darknessz
post May 11 2006, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(funkyboi @ May 11 2006, 02:25 PM)
dun listen to him, sange yasha useless.
just buy the sange/yasha forgot which 1 di but add maim 1 enuf.
*
are u plain nut or just never read about item description . sange & yasha is one heck good item if u know the use of it . +movement speed +attack speed +maim is certainly a good item for chasing / killing hero. not to mention this item adds life ( strength ) + armor ( agility ) as well .
SUSfunkyboi
post May 11 2006, 07:36 PM

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i buy sange only, you dont have much money for them.
the 10% attack speed+movement no worth it.
if me i get hand of midas, sange, bkb(must), other money i save for mkb. then buy a power thread.
hom+thread=55% attack speed.
if its a 1 hour game then you get this item also almost end game.

5% and 10% maim no much diff, see luck only.sometimes i 2 hit maim edi come out.
R a D ! c 4 L
post May 11 2006, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(funkyboi @ May 11 2006, 07:36 PM)
i buy sange only, you dont have much money for them.
the 10% attack speed+movement no worth it.
if me i get hand of midas, sange, bkb(must), other money i save for mkb. then buy a power thread.
hom+thread=55% attack speed.
if its a 1 hour game then you get this item also almost end game.

5% and 10% maim no much diff, see luck only.sometimes i 2 hit maim edi come out.
*
^dude, yasha increases attack speed, the more and faster you attack the more chances for you to get maim into effect, no to say when you got the yasha and sange scroll and combine them together, the effects are much greater.

Here's why:
user posted image
Yasha
Shop: Level 2
Description:
+16 Agility
+5% incr movement speed
+5% incr attack speed.

Recipe:
Blade of Alacrity - 1000 gold
Boots of Elvenskin - 450 gold
Yasha Recipe Scroll - 600 gold

Total Cost: 2050

user posted image
Sange
Shop: Level 2
Description:
+16 Strength
+5 Damage
Effect: Maim
5% chance, +30 dmg
-20% attack speed
-30% movement speed for 5 sec
Orb effects do not stack

Recipe:
Belt of Giant Strength - 450 gold
Ogre Axe - 1000 gold
Sange Recipe Scroll - 600 gold

Total Cost: 2050

user posted image
Sange and Yasha
Shop: Level 3
Description:
+16 Agility
+16 Strength
+16 Damage
+10% incr movement speed, +10% incr attack speed
Effect: Maim
10% chance, -35% attack speed
-35% movement speed for 6 sec
Orb effects do not stack

Yasha - 2050 gold
Sange - 2050 gold
Sange and Yasha Recipe Scroll - 1000 gold

Total Cost: 5100

And some added info: In dota v6 1 agility = 1% increase of attack speed
so once you get YnS all together you'll have an extra 16% agi + an extra increase of 10% attack speed. WIth added more percentage of maim(10%) for 6 seconds.

So in conclusion, this item rocks your socks. Hope this info helps smile.gif
akira de aimbuster
post May 12 2006, 12:03 AM

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Lol, this is like getting 2 hammers but dont want to get the deso scroll doh.gif
darknessz
post May 12 2006, 12:22 AM

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somehow for certain hero that already have its own orb effect spell , like ursa , weaver...it is sometimes nice to pair with yasha , adding attack speed / damage and movement speed
chypher
post May 12 2006, 01:27 AM

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er...
i play skadi vs..... treads, 2 wraith band and skadi, well it takes me to lvl 14-16 to get it... but after that vs is a very scary hero... for attack speed farm for hyper, when u manage to get skadi it's not hard to get hyper stone... trust
me
xtr4
post May 12 2006, 09:40 AM

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chypher: skadi is a good item to get, but i would still recommend S&Y for beginners/mid players (farming ability) for it's relative ease of getting...

why i say so because of the 'difficulty' to save money for the ulti orbs (for the newer players)......getting axe (1000) + [belt (450) + scroll (600)] is easier than getting ulti orb (2300) at one go......

note: that above description is for relative newer players who have difficulty with farming....

cheers thumbup.gif
chypher
post May 12 2006, 01:38 PM

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oops... sorry my bad, but vs aura helps too arent it?
Hevrn
post May 12 2006, 03:44 PM

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yeap command aura is one of the best auras in dota...
sny is a great beginners item coz its ez to get & it grants good hp n attk speed. highly recommended for ppl who struggle saving for expensive items like d edge, ulti ord, eaglehorn...
usually my item build for vs is basilus(for mana regen & armor), threads, mkb, hyper & if game havent end, burize. couple dmg items with command aura thn its gg ahaha
kathranis
post May 12 2006, 08:16 PM

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Hmm...sny is a good item.Maybe you can try on butterfly.It gives evasion and increases attack speed too!
locke
post May 12 2006, 09:41 PM

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For VS, get diffusal blade. Got purge and stun and swap enemy cannot run away. Get a vitality booster for hp. 3000+1100=4100gold.
TSToGo
post May 12 2006, 11:59 PM

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Thanks for all guidance. I have try on most of the way, even skadi VS.
I do try on after get all standard, I get BKB. But not find it so useful due to VS always hide at back of tanker when push.
hng
post May 13 2006, 12:17 AM

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this hero is mainly support hero.with her swap and stun and command aura.
btw i usually dun up the reduce armor 1...betta add stats.vf command aura u can boost ur dmg.
vs is quite easy to farm earli game too since her dmg is high.easier to last hit creeps.

this hero not like other superheroes like PA,BH etc with high critical and oso evasion and high speed hero vf bashes like AM and TS etc etc...

she is earli to mid game hero IMO...

so u mus start pwning earli game to mid game vf ur stun and swap.
TSToGo
post May 13 2006, 02:59 AM

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QUOTE(hng @ May 13 2006, 12:17 AM)
this hero is mainly support hero.with her swap and stun and command aura.
btw i usually dun up the reduce armor 1...betta add stats.vf command aura u can boost ur dmg.
vs is quite easy to farm earli game too since her dmg is high.easier to last hit creeps.

this hero not like other superheroes like PA,BH etc with high critical and oso evasion and high speed hero vf bashes like AM and TS etc etc...

she is earli to mid game hero IMO...

so u mus start pwning earli game to mid game vf ur stun and swap.
*
So as what u say, she is actually like spell caster, is a early game hero.
Ya, when come to late game, she a bit hard unless in earlier game u already god like , then different story. No matter how strong i enhance her armor, vital, Jagannut Ulti sure die. So conclude is early game she is killer, late game mostly to be a good supporter.
Goblinsk8er
post May 13 2006, 03:21 AM

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I just hate v5 VS.
MoM is the most typical item for v5. Range stunner+attacker+IAS? WTF?!
Its damn imba early game.
MoM>Stun>Hit hit hit>wanna run?>swap>hit hit hit>Stun>GG.

Thank god v6 MoM is nerfed.


phozen
post May 13 2006, 10:17 PM

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ToGo try SnY + aegis... ur VS won't die so easily and can fight 1v1 battles
s[H]sIkuA
post May 14 2006, 04:22 AM

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try dagon if u versus alot of int/agi heroes, stun hit hit , swap, hit hit stun , dagon

Tried and Tested , ghey combo sweat.gif , need some nulls though to use all the spells, get euls or skadi or linken later


xtr4
post May 14 2006, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(s[H]sIkuA @ May 14 2006, 04:22 AM)
try dagon if u versus alot of int/agi heroes, stun hit hit , swap, hit hit stun , dagon

Tried and Tested , ghey combo sweat.gif , need some nulls though to use all the spells, get euls or skadi or linken later
*
lol by the time you get dagon, you can probably kill the int hero before you can dagon..... laugh.gif doh.gif tongue.gif
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post May 14 2006, 09:59 PM

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Suggest u random for some other hero dun just stick with VS. Won't u get boring? More experience then u will play VS better.
Trinity
post May 15 2006, 12:05 AM

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VS is good at gang bang~
I even tried lothar on VS(for fun)
~The situation was 5v5.The oppoment was pushing at mid lane 2nd tower. I am VS wif lothar and as i swap the enemy hero into the tower range i click lothar and ww. as the victim that get swap was get kill and his teammate do nthg.
TSToGo
post May 15 2006, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(Trinity @ May 15 2006, 12:05 AM)
VS is good at gang bang~
I even tried lothar on VS(for fun)
~The situation was 5v5.The oppoment was pushing at mid lane 2nd tower. I am VS wif lothar and as i swap the enemy hero into the tower range i click lothar and ww. as the victim that get swap was get kill and his teammate do nthg.
*
Ya. I got use this trick as well.
Besides, can also roar to decrease enemy armor by using ww into enemy.
TSToGo
post May 15 2006, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(walabies @ May 14 2006, 09:59 PM)
Suggest u random for some other hero dun just stick with VS. Won't u get boring? More experience then u will play VS better.
*
I really din try for other hero. YA you are correct. I need to know other hero ability 1st b4 i can kill them.
Kelv
post May 15 2006, 09:35 AM

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Play more -ar game. Sometimes, the items to buy depends on the situation. And skill determine the winner.
TSToGo
post May 15 2006, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(Goblinsk8er @ May 13 2006, 03:21 AM)
I just hate v5 VS.
MoM is the most typical item for v5. Range stunner+attacker+IAS? WTF?!
Its damn imba early game.
MoM>Stun>Hit hit hit>wanna run?>swap>hit hit hit>Stun>GG.

Thank god v6 MoM is nerfed.
*
What diffent VS v5 and V6 in mask of madness?
I just know V6 VS cannot swap her own creap.
phozen
post May 15 2006, 12:38 PM

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v5's mask is a must for a lot of heroes due to the increase in both movement and attack speed, the current v6 mask's is nerved to be less powerful compare to v5
Kelv
post May 15 2006, 04:18 PM

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In v6, rarely use MoM since got better option that is S&Y.
If wanna steal hp, rather get a Helm of Dominator -> Satanic.
Sky.Live
post May 15 2006, 05:05 PM

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i am not sure whether this works for you.

in v5, the lasttttttttttttttttttttt time since i have been playing and owning like no body's business.
1 boots + 4 null with 1 mom
GG edi b4 i can get any better item

in v6, mom weaken too much and doesn't seems that worthy to use.
still the same item, 1 boots, 2~3null with s/n.
then it with really depends on the game, if things really become insane such as everyone aiming on you, lothar seems to be a great choice.
I seldom play VS as i think it is too easy to play... making the game less challenging(i play public only)

edit: conclusion, i play less farmer's build, since i didn't up command aura and 2nd skill, only stun-->stats-->ulti only. after i get some attack boost item such as mkb/burize only i start to get command aura since the aura add damage in percentage. In early game, the aura's effect is too little to be realise, i rather add stats to keep my self alive, VS can be very scary when supporting teamates

This post has been edited by Sky.Live: May 15 2006, 05:07 PM
TSToGo
post May 17 2006, 09:41 AM

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vs is such a great hero.
no to mention how easy to use it, need to find out how pro actually vs can become, how to maximize the potiential of VS holding killer, disabler , supporter role.
walabies
post May 17 2006, 06:41 PM

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VS is very weak in HP, somemore u have to suicidal swap with heroes sometimes. When times comes. So stun + stats is the way to go. Command aura is so pathetic in early game. sleep.gif
szeping
post May 18 2006, 11:35 PM

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It really depends on opponent heroes like some people said.

If you are choosing teamplay, boost your HP (bracers, sange) since you will need HP to escape after swapping.

If you are trying to solo hero, I still suggest MoM -> Stun, MoM and attack and swap... then another stun and attack. In this build, I will get thread, MoM, linken (because you will initiate stun first, just in case target can disable after being stunned, you can escape it with linken), then damage items. Some people like to swap first... but at high level, you might not in the stun range after swapping and good player will run to another side to escape instead of running back.
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post May 19 2006, 09:24 AM

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VS, such a strong hero in team if your member know to use you well.
xtr4
post May 19 2006, 10:06 AM

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ToGo......last night i think i played a game with you....... smile.gif
you were using VS right? Going for deso build right?
Good character control, but still need a little tweaking for micro......overall nice game thumbup.gif
but i think you should've gone S&Y build instead.......your health still a bit on the low side.....

Game On.....
Suet
post May 19 2006, 06:29 PM

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My VS Build:

a) Wraith x2
b) BoS
c) RoB
d) S&Y
e) Crystalys > Burize

happy.gif VS can be very deadly.
TSToGo
post May 22 2006, 09:14 AM

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QUOTE(xtr4 @ May 19 2006, 10:06 AM)
ToGo......last night i think i played a game with you....... smile.gif
you were using VS right? Going for deso build right?
Good character control, but still need a little tweaking for micro......overall nice game thumbup.gif
but i think you should've gone S&Y build instead.......your health still a bit on the low side.....

Game On.....
*
Hi xtr4, Yaya. I remember I see your name at the game.
But can't recall is which game.
You are on my team or opponent team?
Which hero you are using ?
How is the game result, win or lose?

My DOTA life just 1 month only. biggrin.gif
There is still alot of heros I don't understand their power and ultimate.
Thats y I use to die stupidly.

I din really go learn micro creep kill yet. My last hit no good.
Thats y abit money problem.
I din use S&Y due to expensive.
Of cos I got try this build as well. After on S&Y, my VS stronger and can survive longer is true.
But lack damage. A bit hard to kill.
As team support is good, but still lack damage to be killer.

I try go for deso is bcos deso cheap. smile.gif. Damage is between S&Y and Burize.
And I don't understand that just feel my attack speed become faster after getting deso.
My next game i will try on 3 Bracer with deso. See rather will change the outcome or not.

This post has been edited by ToGo: May 22 2006, 09:16 AM
SUSssnakel
post May 22 2006, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(ToGo @ May 22 2006, 09:14 AM)
Hi xtr4,  Yaya. I remember I see your name at the game.
But can't recall is which game.
You are on my team or opponent team?
Which hero you are using ?
How is the game result, win or lose?

My DOTA life just 1 month only.  biggrin.gif
There is still alot of heros I don't understand their power and ultimate.
Thats y I use to die stupidly.

I din really go learn micro creep kill yet. My last hit no good.
Thats y abit money problem.
I din use S&Y due to expensive.
Of cos I got try this build as well. After on S&Y, my VS stronger and can survive longer is true.
But lack damage. A bit hard to kill.
As team support is good, but still lack damage to be killer.

I try go for deso is bcos deso cheap. smile.gif. Damage is between S&Y and Burize.
And I don't understand that just feel my attack speed become faster after getting deso.
My next game i will try on 3 Bracer with deso. See rather will change the outcome or not.
*
you play where? bs3, bnet or lancraft.
TSToGo
post May 22 2006, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(ssnakel @ May 22 2006, 09:34 AM)
you play where? bs3, bnet or lancraft.
*
HiHi,

I play on blue server.
Usually on weekend.
Normal day the most will play 1 game only due to work.
Friday,Saturday and Sunday will see me more.
ToGo is my id as well.
Can add me rolleyes.gif
xtr4
post May 22 2006, 09:58 AM

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@ssnakel

Malaysia's Favourite Server thumbup.gif laugh.gif

@ToGo

I was on opponent (Sentinel), you were Scourge side.
I randomed SA laugh.gif My team won tongue.gif

But i think S&Y easier to get than Deso, here's my points:
S&Y
Ogre Axe (1000) + Belt of Giant Str (450) + Scroll (600) = 2050 (Gives HP, Maim Ability)
Blade of Alacrity (1000) + Boots of Elvenskin (450) + Scroll (600) = 2050 (Gives Dmg, Atack Speed, Move Speed)
S&Y Scroll = 1000 (Improves Sange and Yasha abilities)

Deso
Mithril Hammer = 1610 (Dmg Only)
Mithril Hammer = 1610 (Dmg Only)
Scroll = 1500 (-6 armor reduction)

But to complement Deso build, you're gonna need bracers for HP:
Bracer = 510 x 2 = 1020

Given the above, that's why i recommend S&Y to you for easier farming because you don't have to save up to 1610 for the hammers. In the S&Y build, the most you need is 1000 to start buying items and enjoying the benefits.

Just my 2 sens

TSToGo
post May 22 2006, 10:12 AM

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VS keep on become weaker and weaker.
Cannot use dagger, cannot swap creap, low movement speed and low attack speed compare to version5.

VS already cannot use dagger. The hp very low. Now they further diable VS creap swap. This mean asking VS go to hell only.
Is not fair. No where for VS to escape in this case.
Making VS can only walk with teammate at mid to late game.
Swap, the most useless ulti in DOTA although it looks cool.

Compare to Naga siren, can web ppl so long, equal to stun.
Can do 1.5x damage critical hit.
Can create 3 shadow, making ppl cannot stun you, and also ppl cannot hit u bcos dunno which is true. Besides, all shadow also do damage.
Do not afraid gang bang use to the sleep ulti. So, can go solo anytime.


If they really to reduce the ability of VS, naga siren totally is the must la. So far I fear naga siren most compare to anti magic and Narubian Assasin.




achok
post May 22 2006, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(ToGo @ May 22 2006, 10:12 AM)
VS keep on become weaker and weaker.
Cannot use dagger, cannot swap creap, low movement speed and low attack speed compare to version5.

VS already cannot use dagger. The hp very low. Now they further diable VS creap swap. This mean asking VS go to hell only.
Is not fair. No where for VS to escape in this case.
Making VS can only walk with teammate at mid to late game.
Swap, the most useless ulti in DOTA although it looks cool.

Compare to Naga siren, can web ppl so long, equal to stun.
Can do 1.5x damage critical hit.
Can create 3 shadow, making ppl cannot stun you, and also ppl cannot hit u bcos dunno which is true. Besides, all shadow also do damage.
Do not afraid gang bang use to the sleep ulti. So, can go solo anytime.
If they really to reduce the ability of VS, naga siren totally is the must la. So far I fear naga siren most compare to anti magic and Narubian Assasin.
*
lesrac>naga

all his 4 skills are pain for naga

xtr4
post May 22 2006, 02:14 PM

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Naga is weak to harass early game.....VS can still hold her own.........
If you already know the weaknesses of the hero, try to find counters to overcome these setbacks......because your opponent sure will exploit.......
luKU
post May 22 2006, 03:48 PM

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want support..? make aegis or bkb la....then only go for dmg items...swt
edjo84
post May 22 2006, 03:52 PM

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if u cant get dagger or swap creep, make lothar for escape purpose and it increase ur dmg as well.
Keep in mind AGI increase attack spd, increase armor
TSToGo
post May 22 2006, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(edjo84 @ May 22 2006, 03:52 PM)
if u cant get dagger or swap creep, make lothar for escape purpose and it increase ur dmg as well.
Keep in mind AGI increase attack spd, increase armor
*
YA. I know lothar edge suit VS. But the damage gain is not so obvious compare to deso. It also don't have add in hp like s&y provided.
To kill ppl, u need to stand in front and face them. lother edge not really help alot in such way unless u use sneak and ks like what bone and sa do. But I am sure VS not to build up to play this way. Ur team mate might need to stun to support for team fight. So higher hp needed to stay u longer to support the team.

luKU
post May 22 2006, 04:32 PM

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y only think of dmg dmg dmg....=_="
if u use ur skills wisely....can kill ppl without running, swapping, lothar edge-ing.....
=_="

TSToGo
post May 22 2006, 04:53 PM

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No. I just need the damage to kill. That all.
I din say that I can't kill.
I just trying to come out a set of build suit me most.
Lother edge is useless when some1 in team or opposite team playing invisible hero or bomb. Usually they play those hero, I wont invest on lother edge.
TSToGo
post May 23 2006, 07:52 AM

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Last nite just try S & Y and bracer, wow, cool. This should be the build I want.
Suet
post May 23 2006, 01:25 PM

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OMG you gotta be kidding haha. What's NOT good about an invisible duo of gb-ers? =_=

QUOTE(ToGo @ May 22 2006, 04:53 PM)
No. I just need the damage to kill. That all.
I din say that I can't kill.
I just trying to come out a set of build suit me most.
Lother edge is useless when some1 in team or opposite team playing invisible hero or bomb. Usually they play those hero, I wont invest on lother edge.
*
TSToGo
post May 23 2006, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(Suet @ May 23 2006, 01:25 PM)
OMG you gotta be kidding haha. What's NOT good about an invisible duo of gb-ers? =_=
*
What so good about lothar Edge, is just windwalk.
If ppl playing invisible, ward are all the way. If ppl wanna gb you, if i were them, i will put ward at ur escape path , no way for u to run. Moreover come even carry gem. Maybe you windwalk u tough u already safe, but actually SA with gem is still aftering you but u can't see him. So if that situation, personally think la haha, we just have discussion smile.gif Better invest on health or damage item more worth.

This post has been edited by ToGo: May 23 2006, 01:36 PM
Suet
post May 23 2006, 01:56 PM

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Again, so wrong. LE gives an AGI boost to those playing VS. I've not used LE build on VS so I might not know. BUt to each his/her own. Thank you very muchy. =_=

IMHO it's a little psychology play as well. If you know your opponent is an SA or Bone, you'd auto buy wards but for VS no one would get it to counter her. Use that to your advantage, and you can maybe get coupla kills before they realise how dangerous a WW-king VS is. After that, you can sell the LE if you dislike it so much. XD

This post has been edited by Suet: May 23 2006, 01:59 PM
TSToGo
post May 23 2006, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(Suet @ May 23 2006, 01:56 PM)
Again, so wrong. LE gives an AGI boost to those playing VS. I've not used LE build on VS so I might not know. BUt to each his/her own. Thank you very muchy. =_=

IMHO it's a little psychology play as well. If you know your opponent is an SA or Bone, you'd auto buy wards but for VS no one would get it to counter her. Use that to your advantage, and you can maybe get coupla kills before they realise how dangerous a WW-king VS is. After that, you can sell the LE if you dislike it so much. XD
*
Haha WW-king VS. I like this term.
Yaya. I know LE provide Age giv VS speed and damage.
But if to compare, SnY and Deso much better.
For me, what I trying to say that is buy which 1st level3 or level4 weapon 1st.
Cos 1st weapon always to decide the result of the game.
I do not disagree that after getting SnY, then get LE. But most of the time u havent complete LE , already GG.
As I know, VS with LE is create in Battlenet by a foreigner and bring into Blue Server. Is a pretty famous tactic.

If to manage WW VS well, you need some practise on bone , sa or gondor. See how they use WW to backstab. rclxm9.gif
Else for ppl not use to WW, even got LE, in team battle also forgot to use. haha. Happen to me several time also.

This post has been edited by ToGo: May 23 2006, 03:31 PM
Hevrn
post May 23 2006, 04:18 PM

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personally i dun like deso, its not worth the cash & its countered so easily (get armor)
TSToGo
post May 23 2006, 04:23 PM

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VS is somesalt of dead god. Arm her with Deso is cool. And also there are power surround at his weapon. Look so cool. The attack is nice and colorful as well.
achok
post May 23 2006, 05:25 PM

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just passing by n i wanna share too. nowadays, so little ppl use deso bcoz this item oledi got nerf alot (i think its balance now) n take time to make it. compare to s&y so affordable n deso orb easyly counter with plate mail. what counter for maim? i think none.

oh i prefer LE too than deso. WW seflexplanatory

i think deso history now. just my 2 cent
SUSFlizzardo
post May 23 2006, 05:58 PM

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.

This post has been edited by Flizzardo: Feb 17 2009, 12:26 AM
xtr4
post May 23 2006, 06:06 PM

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Deso still a deadly item, depends on the hero i.e. Slardar (Deso + Ulti), Shadow Fiend (Deso + Aura)

Back to topic:
LE on VS is nice for swapping heros and not getting killed........
Means that even though the opponents are walking in groups, you still can easily swap + kill one of their heros...... tongue.gif
Suet
post May 24 2006, 11:25 AM

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Deso deadly but not necessary. Hate it when Bnet people ask me: "Where is your deso for your Bone?" Gah. =_=

xtr4: Very true. LE is still useful! tongue.gif See? Ngek ngek.
TSToGo
post May 24 2006, 12:54 PM

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Haha. Maybe we don't just purely discuss here. No point that if we don't understand each other strong and weak point. Maybe lets have a game together so that we could know each other and can come out with a better dicussion.
soon2
post May 24 2006, 01:30 PM

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actually 2 play good VS aint easy. 1st u hv 2 know which hero will harm u most & which hero that u can pawn them easily in public game.. in team game u no need think 2 much coz u r not main killer. u support d team juz enuf. swap ur enemy (u need not care bout d fella u swap coz he sure die 1 4v1 lol), stun those that can stun u or slow u and run away. in public game u need think wo walk with u (can combo 2 kill). who ur oppenent lane, they nuke u or melee hero? with all above guidance i thik it's enuf 4 a good VS. juz need some experience, u hv 2 know when go 4 bkb 1st or S&Y or MKB or aegis or etc. this is crucial.. if buy wrong thing u half kena gg. remember if ur oponent damn pro, VS is 1st 2 die. enjoy ur game ;-)
SUSfunkyboi
post May 24 2006, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(ToGo @ May 24 2006, 12:54 PM)
Haha. Maybe we don't just purely discuss here. No point that if we don't understand each other strong and weak point. Maybe lets have a game together so that we could know each other and can come out with a better dicussion.
*
i look forward to pawn you in bs3 this weekend.
you friday night free? i want play with you see your skillz.
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post May 24 2006, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(soon2 @ May 24 2006, 01:30 PM)
actually 2 play good VS aint easy. 1st u hv 2 know which hero will harm u most &  which hero that u can pawn them easily in public game.. in team game u no need think 2 much coz u r not main killer. u support d team juz enuf. swap ur enemy (u need not care bout d fella u swap coz he sure die 1 4v1 lol), stun those that can stun u or slow u and run away. in public game u need think wo walk with u (can combo 2 kill). who ur oppenent lane, they nuke u or melee hero? with all above guidance i thik it's enuf 4 a good VS. juz need some experience, u hv 2 know when go 4 bkb 1st or S&Y or MKB or aegis or etc. this is crucial.. if buy wrong thing u half kena gg. remember if ur oponent damn pro, VS is 1st 2 die. enjoy ur game ;-)
*
Ya. I understand. Naix, anti magic, naga siren, narubian assasin, ursa warrior, bloood seeker ....... those hero sure must run.

YA. too many stunner, spammer, ofcos bkb always 1st.

Haha. Ya. They like to gang rape VS 1st maybe she is sexy.
So, teammate who is good will know how to protect VS.
TSToGo
post May 24 2006, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(funkyboi @ May 24 2006, 02:14 PM)
i look forward to pawn you in bs3 this weekend.
you friday night free? i want play with you see your skillz.
*
Haha, This friday nite I got Team building. Eat sushi buffet free thumbup.gif .
Maybe late nite or saturday morning lo.
Anyway , you can add my Bserver3 id : ToGo also.
Hope that after that game, won't let you rank me in noob list la.
Hope to learn more from you as well.
R a D ! c 4 L
post May 24 2006, 03:40 PM

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Thought that i can help out a bit for u guys here. Here's a guide taken from dotaportal.com. Use it as a reference. smile.gif

QUOTE(Cheese Elemental @ Dotaportal.com)
Guide to Shandelzare Silkwood, the Vengeful Spirit



Table of contents
1. Introduction to Shandelazare Silkwood
2. Skill build, descriptions and explanations
3. Item build, justification and other items
4. Game walkthrough and strategy
5. Miscellaneous strategy
6. Additional links and resources
7. Conclusion


Introduction to Shandelazare Silkwood


user posted image

"Shandelazare was a warden, betrayed and killed by Mortred who she trusted in. With her dying breath, she prayed to Elune to grant her a chance to avenge her death. Though her body died, her relentless spirit lived on. Her very presence is an example for her allies, while her enemies fear her determination. Using powers of the spirit world, she can blast her enemies with pure magical energy and reverse positions with others."

Shandelzare Silkwood - The Vengeful Spirit
Range: 400 | | Move Speed: 295 | Primary: AGI
Str: 16 + 1.8 | Agi: 22 + 2.35 | Int: 15 + 1.75
Damage: 34 - 48 | HP: 454 | Mana: 195
HP Regen: 0.73 | Mana Regen: 0.61
Attack Speed: 1.38 (+ 22% IAS) | Armor: 4.1

Strengths
- Powerful early-mid game due to missle
- Relatively easy to play
- Swap is imba
- Terror and command aura are powerful AoE spells

Weaknesses
- Low HP
- Slightly below average movespeed
- Swap requires skill to use
- Slow attack speed for an agility hero
- Low stat growth


Skill descriptions

Magic Missile[C]

A magic missile is thrown at an enemy unit, causing damage. Stuns for 1.75 seconds. Cast range of 500. Cooldown of 10 seconds at all levels.
Level 1 - Deals 100 damage, 95 mana cost
Level 2 - Deals 175 damage, 110 mana cost
Level 3 - Deals 250 damage, 125 mana cost
Level 4 - Deals 325 damage, 140 mana cost

Remarks: A very powerful missile stun, with good damage ,a relatively low mana cost and also a low cooldown which enables it to be used twice in a single battle. This gives Shandelazare very good early and mid game power. It's exactly like storm bolt, but you don't have to move to melee range in order to attack.

Terror [T]

Shandelzare lets loose a wicked cry, terrorizing enemy units of around 700 range. Their armor and damage is reduced. Lasts 20 seconds, mana cost of 40 at all levels and cooldown of 15 seconds.

Level 1 - Reduces base armor by 3 and damage by 5%.
Level 2 - Reduces base armor by 4 and damage by 10%.
Level 3 - Reduces base armor by 5 and damage by 15%.
Level 4 - Reduces base armor by 6 and damage by 20%.

Remarks: An AoE debuff to enemies that reduces their armor and damage. 6 armor is the same as what a desolator gives, which equates to a lot of extra damage taken in by an entire team. The damage reduction won't really matter much since it only reduces base damage and damage from stat items. 700 range is pretty far, as far as the range of a tower.

Command Aura

Increases damage of allied units within 350 range. Effect stays for 2 seconds after moving out of range. Only amplifies your base damage and bonus damage earned from stat items.

Level 1 - 12% damage.
Level 2 - 20% damage.
Level 3 - 28% damage.
Level 4 - 36% damage.

Remarks: A useful skill late game when you benefit more from the bonuses. Otherwise, early on, this would be near useless since you have low base agility and hence you will have gained relatively little damage. 350 range means that you might not be able to get all your teammates to benefit from it all at once.

Nether Swap [W]

Instantaneously swaps positions with a target hero. Cooldown of 45 seconds at all levels.

Level 1 - 600 range, 100 mana cost
Level 2 - 900 range, 150 mana cost
Level 3 - 1200 range, 200 mana cost

Remarks: This skill is totally IMBA. At first look, it might seem pointless to level this, but swap can move any hero into where you are now. This can be used for virtually any purpose, offensively to bring an enemy further away from his tower, or defensively to escape. 1200 range at level 3 is very far, and can easily bring one unsuspecting foe into the arms of your teammates. More on this skill under strategy.

Suggested skill build:

1. Magic Missile
2. Attributes bonus
3. Magic Missle
4. Attributes bonus
5. Magic Missile
6. Nether Swap
7. Magic Missile
8. Command Aura
9. Command Aura
10. Command Aura
11. Nether Swap
12. Command Aura
13. Terror
14. Terror
15. Terror
16. Nether Swap
17. Terror
18-25. Attributes bonus


Explanation for skill build


1. Command aura is useless early on. Yes, that's right. At level 7 if you get 2 levels of command aura (since missle and swap goes first) you will have 48-62 damage plus 11 damage. This evens out to only 5.5 damage per level early on, which means it only gives 3.5 more damage per level compared to getting stats. On the other hand, if you go for stats, you will have +4 damage, +76 health and +52 mana, a lot more useful since you will rely on missile to damage enemies instead of her normal attack. Even at level 9, command aura only adds 22 damage. A single nuke does 300 damage, so it won't help with hero killing either.

2. Terror is only gotten at level 12 while Command aura is gotten immediately after missile. This is because mid game is generally still ruled by spells, so neither terror nor command aura will have as much effect when gotten. However, terror requires casting, while command aura is passive. This makes command aura a better choice since you just have to stand besides your allies and attack with the same effect as terror. You also don't have so much mana until after level 10.

3. Nether swap levels 2 and 3 as soon as possible. An extra 300 range on your swap will mean enemy heroes have much more ground to cover if they want to escape after being swapped. Swap in general also has more use than one level of command aura or terror.

Item build

Recomended Item Build


user posted image

Ring of Basilius

500g
Shop: Level 1
Description:
+6 Damage
Passive: Brilliance Aura
900 Radius +0.65 mana/ second to friendly units
Passive: Devotion Aura
900 Radius +3 Armor

Why this ring on Vengeful spirit? Simple, she really needs the mana. With a base intelligence of only 15, she won't have enough mana to use magic missile more than 2 times early game. This item solves it, and the armor bonus is also useful to withstand enemy harassment. Even though this item adds a flat 0.65 mana regen per second, it still gives more regen than a sobi mask until level 11, when mana regen is no longer needed.

The damage helps with creeping, and the armor aura even helps to stop enemies from farming. The 3 armor being an aura means all your creeps will benefit from it, giving them an effective damage reduction of 15%. This means Sven which has an avg damage of 55 at level one will only have 46.75 avg damage when attacking creeps. A big difference, since Naix has the same avg damage and is considered one of the hardest heroes to farm with.

Ring of regeneration

375g
+2 HP/sec regen

Ring of regeneration will help with staying in your lane for much longer. Together with Ring of Basillius, you should have no problem with either health or mana regen. This is preferred over flasks because you will be attacked by creeps quite often when you harass an enemy hero. Either way, flasks can still be brought over by your chicken as and when you need them.

Power Treads

1610g
Shop: Level 1
Description:
+60 Run Speed
+30% Attack Speed

These generic sneakers are needed on Vengeful spirit for the speed to chase and also the attack speed. With her having a slow BAT, getting IAS items are better than pure damage items. This will mean you can attack a lot more often when your target is stunned by magic missile.

Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse

5175g
Shop: Level 4
Description:
+150% Mana Regeneration
+25 Intellegence
+35 Damage
Activate: Polymorph
600 Range 3 Second Duration
23 Second Cooldown, 100 Mana Cost

OMG OMG WHY GUINSOO? Are you writing a guide for Lion? First of all, Shandelzare is a disabler/debuffer, not a pure damage dealer. Guinsoo's Sycthe will fit this role extremely well since now you can swap, missile and sheep, chase your victim and missile again for 6.5 seconds of disables. The regen also allows you to spam terror on creep waves, giving you a lot of bonus damage when farming/pushing. Don't scoff at the 35 damage either, it also helps quite a bit. The 3 seconds of free attacking you get means your victim has less time to fight back compared to buying pure cookie cutter damage items.

Buriza-do Kyanon

6200g
Shop: Level 4
Description:
+75 Damage
Passive: Critical Strike
20% Chance 2.2x Damage Multiplier

A very simple cookie cutter item, I'm very sure not many will question this item. For Shandelzare, this item is better than MkB since your critical strikes will deal a lot more damage compared to bash because of command aura. This is also gotten after Guinsoo's sheep stick, where you have another 35 damage to boost your critical strikes. The IAS bonus given by MkB isn't so significant in this case because you will be getting a Butterfly later. You should get this if there is a lack of damage dealers in your team.

The Butterfly

5950g
Shop: Level 4
Description:
+25% Chance to Evade
+20 Damage
+25% Attack Speed
+25 Agility

Why is this item so good here? Simple, because command aura adds on only to base damage and damage added on by stat items. This item gives 25 damage from agility, and you will receive an additional 9 damage. It might not sound like a lot, but in total you get 54 damage, 50 IAS, 3.6 armor and the always useful 25% evasion. The evasion is the main point for this item, you gain a lot of effective HP against physical damagers. This is needed later on when heroes like Razor or Troll get a lot of damage items.

Eye of Skadi

7050g
Shop: Level 4
Description:
+150 Hit Points, +200 Mana
+25 to All Attributes
Passive: Frost Attack
-20% Attack Speed
-30% Run Speed
2 Second Duration
Not an orb effect on ranged heroes.

Eye of Skadi might seem hard to build up, given that 2 ultimate orbs which cost 2300 each are needed in the recipe. However, the ultimate orbs alone will greatly boost your solo power and survivability. Skadi's frost attack is good in a supporting role as you can slow down heroes for your teammates to attack. In total, it gives 625 HP, 525 mana, 25 damage and 25 IAS. The mana is used only for terror when pushing, but also helps with spamming missile if needed.

Mekansm

2434g
Shop: Level 2
Description:
+5 All Attributes
+5 Armor
Passive: 3 HP/sec regeneration aura
Active: Revitalize
Gives 2 bonus armor and heals 250 hit points to nearby friendly units.
150 Mana Cost, 60 seconds cooldown

Again, Mekansm is bought to fulfill the role of a supporter. In team battles, you can easily turn the tide of the battle by healing 250 HP and giving 2 bonus armor to all teammates around you. The armor and health given from it also helps with surviving after swapping into enemy ranks.

Alternative and luxury items

Stygian Desolator

4720g
Shop: Level 3
Description:
+50 Damage
Passive: Corruption
-6 Armor to Enemy Target
5 Second Duration
Orb effects do not stack

Corruption orb stacks with terror, and this can really pack in the hurt in later stages of the game. Take Skeleton King at level 25 for example, who has 2278 HP and 9.4 armor giving him 35% damage reduction, around 3550 effective HP against physical damage. After terror and one shot of corruption, he will have -2.8 armor and take 18% more damage! This will give him a new EHP of 1868 against physical attacks, or a loss of 48% EHP! This makes Desolator the ideal weapon against late game agility heroes. The nifty 50 damage bonus helps a lot, with hammers being the most effective gold for damage item after only Rapier and sacred relic.

Black King Bar

3800g
Shop: Level 3
Description:
+18 Damage
+10 Strength
Activate: Avatar
Immue to most magic spells
10 Second Duration 100 Second Cooldown 150 Mana Cost
Cannot be Dropped

This item is a must get for all upper class games because AoE spells rule team battles. With a BKB, you have immunity against magic spells and hence will be a lot harder to kill. This is also worth getting if there are more than 2 nukers or disablers in the enemy team.

Sange and Yasha

5100g
Shop: Level 3
Description:
+16 Agility
+16 Strength
+16 Damage
+10% incr movement speed, +10% incr attack speed
Effect: Maim
10% chance, -35% attack speed
-35% movement speed for 6 sec
Maim is an orb effect.

Sange and Yasha is made up of many smaller items that give stat bonuses to agility and strength, both of which Vengeful spirit needs. With a chicken, you can constantly get the bonuses bit by bit without having to go back to the fountain. Sange and Yasha is gotten primarily when there is a need for more HP and also for the 10% IMS which allows you to chase for a second missile a lot easier. The agility bonuses boost your DPS by quite a bit, plus maim slows down a person by a lot when it triggers. However, maim only has a 10% chance to occur, and the main reason for this item is still the stat bonuses and movespeed. This in general is bad for slow agi heroes like VS, but it helps with enchancing her solo power as needed.

Why certain items are bad?

1. Early Nulls/Wraiths/Bracers - Mana from nulls are not needed, as VS has enough mana to do her full combo. With 2 levels of stats, you will be able to swap and throw 2 magic missiles at level 7. If you need regen, RoB already provides that. For Wraiths, even if you get them with command aura, 8 damage, 6% IAS and 1 armor won't really make that much of a difference. Early on, so your combo is still mostly dependant on Missile's damage and swap. If you really need the HP so much, just get an ogre axe and form a BKB or Sange later.

2. Monkey King Bar instead of Buriza - Criticals do way more damage on VS compared to MKB. If you are getting either of the two I assume you are going for damage, and Buriza is better in terms of damage. The reason is because command aura's bonus damage will be amplified when you hit a crit, while MKB has no synergy with command aura whatsoever. Buriza is also easier to build up, with Crystalys made up of many smaller items compared to a cheaper MKB which requires more expensive items. A Buriza-Desolator combo is also better in DPS compared to a pure MKB-Buriza combo.

3. Mask of Madness - I can't believe anyone actually suggested buying a mask of madness on VS, but it is bullshit. You already have low health, using a Mask of Madness will only get you killed faster. This item costs 2k and gives no other effects aside from lifesteal, if you get it early on it will make you extremely susceptible to anything.

4. Lothar's edge - Agility and an escape mechanism is good, but Vengeful has no need for that. She already has a disable and swap. You can make a roundabout by swapping with the slowest enemy hero/ disabler and taking another route back to base. 10 agility will only give extra 3 damage, not really all that much.

Strategy

Skill analysis

1. How to use Magic Missile:

- Use it to harass early in the game. Magic missile deals 325 damage at level 4 with a 1.75 seconds stun, making it one of the most powerful disables in the game. In general, it is best to make use of the stun by getting your allies also to attack the target. Use it to initiate, as you might be able to use it twice in a single battle due to its low cooldown.

- Stopping channeling spells. This should be self explanatory.

- After swapping an enemy to your allies or tower, stun him there. Don't wait until he gets out of range. Combine Missile with Swap, the stun will be more effective if you can get your creeps or tower to attack an enemy.

- Combo with Eul's - Missile, attack a few times, chase, Cyclone, Missile and finish off with more hits. With Eul's, you can afford to use Magic Missile a lot more generously. You can do the same combo with Guinsoo's, attacking the target when he is sheeped.

- Use it as a normal disable. A 1.75 seconds stun is nothing to scoff at.

2. How to use Terror

- Pushing. -6 armor to all units in 700 range is a lot to ask for, considering desolator's recipe costs 1.5k for 2 damage and the same effect on only one target. 700 range is quite far, you can hit both enemy melee and ranged heroes after swapping with one of them. It lasts for 20 seconds while only requiring 40 mana, or 2 mana/second if you were to keep casting it. A cooldown of 15 seconds means that you can have this effect permanently as long as you cast it

- In team battles, this has great synergy with other physical damagers. The reduction to damage isn't as significant as the armor reduction, but it will weaken heroes dependant on their base damage by quite a bit. Such heroes include bloodseeker, magnataur or image heroes.

- When enemy creeps are hitting your tower, you can cast terror to weaken their damage. Terror is more effective on creeps because they don't buy insane damage items such as Buriza or MKB which is not affected by the damage reduction. Tower hits are also reduced by armor, so towers can also kill terrored units faster.


3. Positioning for Command Aura

- In general, you should try and position yourself in between the melee heroes and ranged heroes. This should be relatively easy given your range of 400 which is just in the middle.

- After swapping, immediately stun the swapped hero and move back towards your allies. This will ensure that command aura affects them. Command aura also has a rub off time of 2 seconds, meaning you can swap and return without your allies losing the effect.

4. Miniguide on how to use swap

- Offensively used to get a hero to be teleported to where you are (usually near your allies). This can be used even when the target is near a tower, since swap often causes quite a bit of confusion. Let your allies know when you are about to swap by signaling on the minimap.

- The infamous "Tower-swap". If you see someone trying to push down your tower when there are only 2 or 3 of his creeps left, swap him so that he has to run a longer distance to get away from your tower. Immediately after swapping, stun him at the tower. Early on, heroes drop like flies to towers. A missile and 3 seconds of attacks from the tower should easily drop a hero down to red health if not kill him.

- Swap whenever needed. Sometimes, swap might do more damage than missile if you have creeps nearby. If you have 2 or more allies next to you but low mana, save it for swap. Your allies will be doing a lot more damage from attacking compared to you just using missile and attacking for 2 seconds.

- Luring heroes. Have a Lich, Juggernaut or Luna on your team? Get them to chase you, and swap with that ally. It can be quite a shock for 3 yellow-healthed heroes to notice a full HP Lich appearing in front of them instead of a red-healthed Vengeful Spirit.

- Swap can also be used to dodge spells like Sven's storm bolt or Lich's chain frost. Just swap with a target when you see it flying towards you. In general, this is harder to do and requires more timing compared to the windwalk version or blink version.

- Defensively it can be used to escape from enemies. Nether swap has a huge range at level 3! In that sense, you can try to run for your tower, failing which you swap with the hero furthest away from you and run in the opposite direction for an alternative route home. Packing TP scrolls also help with this trick.

- Stopping channeling spells as needed. Swap has a ministun, so you can use it to stop channeling spells if you already used missile.

- Dislocate heroes or bring them where you are. See a Sand King trying to epicenter your allies? Swap with him! Have a techies ally? Get him to plant mines around you and swap with an enemy!

Team battles

For this part, I shall use the categories listed out by lh2128 to show who you should prioritize aiming for in team battles.

QUOTE
Let me roughly classify all DotA heroes into 6 categories:

1. Killers e.g. Clinkz, Razor
2. Heroes with crazy channeling ultimates e.g. Crystal Maiden, Enigma
3. Heroes with non-channeling ultimates e.g. Luna, Venomancer, Leshrac, Treant, Rhasta
4. Tanks e.g. Centaur, Tidehunter, Pudge
5. Disablers e.g. Lion, Vengeful Spirit
6. Others e.g. Keeper of the Light, Silencer, Chen


Firstly, you should swap with heroes that die extremely easily but are otherwise very powerful. In general, you should target type 2 heroes to swap first, as type 2 heroes might deal a lot of damage to your team. After swapping immediately terror (terror has no casting time), stun the swapped hero and move back towards your allies. Use polymorph on the swapped heroes if your allies have no other disables.

If you have a Eul's scepter, cyclone any other type 2 heroes that you have not killed yet. Otherwise, cyclone type 5 heroes, attacking type 1 heroes in the process. In general, type 4 and type 6 heroes should be ignored, as they have no way of dealing a lot of damage.

If there are heroes that are both tanks and have powerful AoE ultimates like Sand King or Tidehunter, cyclone them and stun them when they land, while attacking other heroes. Focusing on the tanks puts you in a disadvantage, and you can stop them from casting their ultimates until most of their teammates are dead.

Stun/Polymorph type 2 heroes if they already begun to cast their ultimates, then ignore them as they are generally useless without their ultimates.

If you have Mekansm, move back towards your teammates after swapping and activate revitalize. Remember to co-ordinate with your teammates and let them know when you are going to use swap. If enemy heroes are focusing on you after you swap and the swapped hero is facing certain death, just polymorph one and stun the other.

Another role of Vengeful spirit in team battles is as a supporting damager. With command aura and terror, nearly all your teammates can deal as much damage as a Clinkz or Troll. In general, you should attack type 2, 3, 5 and 1 heroes in that order.

Game Walkthrough

Levels 1-5

Skills to get

1. Magic Missile
2. Attributes bonus
3. Magic Missile
4. Attributes bonus
5. Magic Missile

Items to buy
Ring of Regeneration, Ring of Basillius

Preferably, you should pair up with another disabler in the mid lane, because it is very easy to get a kill with double disables. Mid lane also allows you to go to any of the side lanes to gank with an ally. In general, this does not matter much, as Shandelzare can do well in any lane. At this stage of the game you should just take the last hit on creeps like usual. Deny experience and gold by killing your own creeps when they are low on health. Don't bother using magic missile at level 1 unless there is an opportunity for your creeps to attack the hero. Wait until level 3, missile the hero, attack them twice and back off. Harassing in this way will mean that they either have to return to the fountain often or risk getting killed. Use your chicken to ferry the sobi mask to you when you have enough money for it.

Levels 6-10

Skills to get

6. Nether Swap
7. Magic Missile
8. Command Aura
9. Command Aura
10. Command Aura

Items to buy:
Power Treads, Void stone

Harass as much as you can early on, using missile when you can get additional units to attack your target. On reaching level 6, save your mana until you have 225 mana. Let your opponents push up the slope until near your tower, swap them to your tower and stun them there. With any luck, you should get a kill. If there is any hero in the side lanes with half health or less, signal to your allies in that lane, start attacking that hero, missile them and finish them off. Try pairing up with a disabler partner if you want to gank heroes in this period. Pay attention to missing heroes as this period is when they get their level ultimates and level 4 nuke.

Levels 11-16

Skills to get

11. Nether Swap
12. Command Aura
13. Terror
14. Terror
15. Terror
16. Nether Swap

Items to buy:
Robe of the magi, staff of wizardry (Forms Eul's scepter), Quarterstaff

This is the period that will decide who ends up on top later on. You are probably still a very strong disabler, and should team up with a damager or disabler to kill people who are still alone in their lanes and trying to farm. This time, use terror immediately after swapping or using missile. Wait until you have used up all cyclone charges before upgrading Eul's to Guinsoo, as cyclone plays an important part in gankings. If you spot 2 heroes in one lane, get an ally and focus on one hero while you cyclone the other.

Get your allies to stay near you in the forest as you swap heroes as needed. Swap has a long range and you can swap from inside the fog of war. If enemies try and all push a certain lane, you can defend with an ally by swapping the hero with the lowest health to your tower, cycloning the disabler or damage dealer (not the one that was swapped) and beating on the swapped hero. If you need to farm for a major item and quite a number of enemy heroes are missing, try farming neutrals with terror and missile.

Levels 17-25

Skills to get

17. Terror
18-25. Attributes bonus

Items to get
Guinsoo's Scythe, Stygian Desolator

Late game, only push past the river if you have allies(note plural tense) with you. If you attempt to push alone, you will be smacked back to your fountain in no time. If you are on the losing side and generally are at a disadvantage in clashes, you should just defend the base towers and try to earn money. Terror makes for a good pushing tool, and swap can get defending enemy heroes out away from the range of their towers. Missile isn't as damaging as it used to be, but is still useful as a disable. Stick with your teammates, and end the game if you manage to clear your opponent's team. In general, push when most of their heroes are dead, ganking heroes that attempt to farm. With terror and command aura, pushing should be easy for your teammates. Aim for the barracks immediately after destroying their base tower intead of aiming for the moon wells.

Miscellaneous strategy

Best allies:

Rylai Crestfall - The Crystal Maiden

With both Magic missle and frostbite, the two are a extremely powerful early game duo. Later on, you can swap heroes into her frostbite and stun heroes that are trying to run away.

Kel'Thuzad - The Lich

Again, Chain frost has great synergy with swap. You can stand next to one hero and swap another hero near him as Lich casts his Chain frost, or swap with Lich when heroes are chasing you for a double kill.

Yurnero- The Juggernaut

Swap and omnislash. The same combo can be done with Luna's eclipse. Stun and fury also does quite a bit of damage.

Squee and Spleen - The Goblin Techies

Swap can get a target enemy to be teleported into a group of mines. Just get him to plant around 3 proximity mines and 3 remote mines in a circle around you, swap with someone and detonate. Missile and Suicide can also get first blood at level 1.

Purist Thunderwrath- The Omniknight

Omniknight's Repel can allow you to swap with a hero and still come out safely without being disabled or chain-nuked. His degen aura also helps with chasing heroes.

Tiny - The Stone Giant

With level 3 grow and command aura, Tiny will be dealing gay amounts of damage (up to 400 per hit). Avalance is also quite powerful paired together with missile when hunting mid game.

Worst enemies

NePhri'thos - The Nerubian Assassin

Mana burn will mean you have no mana to use missile for the early stages of the game, and his full combo can easily kill you. A Vengeful spirit without mana equals a dead one. Predict when he will use vendetta and walk away. It can also help to use Magic missile from behind if you always get mana burned before you shoot a missile.

Magina - The Anti-Mage

Again, this hero can be a b**** early on if you don't have mana. Later on, he can outdamage you easily, and perma-stun on this guy is also very irritating. Wait for him to blink to you, then stun him, attack a few times, polymorph and run away. Remember to missile AFTER he blinks or he will be able to dodge it.

I can't really think of any other heroes. Those with longer range might be able to harass you more early on, but otherwise will lose out to you when you have swap and level 4 missile.

Additional links and resources

Dota Mathematics thread - Simple DPS calculations done by my favourite guide writer, diaz_leon.

Dota FAQs - Got a question on how much extra damage you will do with Terror+Deso? Check out this link.

Miniguide to using wards - A guide for ugh, ward usage. If you need to know where to plant your observer wards, check here.

Teamwork and survival guide - By Abused]Shaft. Refer to this if you keep dying in ganks.

Rune guide - What runes are there and when do they spawn? This guide covers that.

Guide to usability of items - By chilln_1ce, a general guide on why only some items are good on certain heroes. If you want to get Mask of Madness for VS, I'm sure you won't anymore after reading this.

Lexorcismus's Vengeful Spirit guide - This guide was premium quite a while ago, and has good coverage on the usage of swap. However, you can no longer swap with creeps in the later versions, so take note of that.

Conclusion

I was inspired to write guides again after reading diaz_leon's guides. I would also like to thank lexorcismus for many of his ideas with swap. I managed to complete this in 2 days (my first guide took around 15), and with any luck I should write more guides soon.

Lastly, thanks to you for reading this guide. I hope you learned something from it.


Source
TSToGo
post May 24 2006, 04:29 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
506 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


Hi Radic4al,

thanks for ur help. Before this I got read this forum before also.
Personally feel that his item build not so good.
Maybe, I dunno how to use it well.
Just feel that he spending too much on Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse.
Which this item is not suit for VS. He want to use this tactic is just primary is just for VS to fire double maggic missle.
Eul's still ok.
But if u want to use his tactic, unless u are very very pro or u play with noobs, at mid game, be sure you kill like insance, get godlike , so that only have enough money to buy burize for late game weapon.
If not , u are dead. At late game, 2 fire magic missle just is scratching to alot of hero only. Not really harm them. Late game magic missle is purely disabler, no true damage. And late game ppl also come in gang, i don't think thier team mate will let u wait to fire 2 round of magic missle.
Actually, swap and magic missle is pretty enough for VS, dont need to go for thrid disabler
So I feeel that his guide is more like paper speak soldier, not suit for noobs, average ppl..........

This post has been edited by ToGo: May 24 2006, 04:32 PM
Ban Guan
post May 24 2006, 06:17 PM

New Member
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Junior Member
30 posts

Joined: Aug 2005


QUOTE(R a D ! c 4 L @ May 24 2006, 03:40 PM)
Thought that i can help out a bit for u guys here. Here's a guide taken from dotaportal.com. Use it as a reference. smile.gif
dun think tat the guide taken from dota portal all is true

weakness
low HP => wtf of this, almost all int n agi hero (1.8 str /Lv lower than Snip/Bone ?)
slow attack speed => vs attack speed faster than bone(dint cast skill)
low stat growth => 1.8 + 2.35 + 1.75 = 5.9(better than other tat only + 5.2/Lv)
move speed lower then other hero tat only hav 280/275 ?

if this is weaknees of vs, then other hero is imbalance liao lar, all of them can "tapao go back kampung" tongue.gif


my item for vs, all is cheap item but combine gather is nice item.......
ring of regen (1st sell if not enuf slot)
hand of midas (2nd sell if not enuf slot)
power tread
sange n yasha
yasha
chicken (aegis then DR or MKB then BFly)

note here
pt + hom = 1 HyperStone
SnY + Y really good in mid or mid-late game.
(sny' aura and y' aura can stack gather) rclxms.gif

try this kind of item build for all range agi hero.
u all will know the attack speed n movespeed increase how many.

This post has been edited by Ban Guan: May 24 2006, 06:56 PM
hueyseng84
post May 24 2006, 06:20 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
880 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: screaming at Screamyx!!!
guys.. i need help a bit on how to recover my password...

i din play dota for very long d for nearly half a year... den when i tried to login.. i can't...maybe i forgot my password...

how to retrieve it ah?

thanks...
Ban Guan
post May 24 2006, 06:23 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
30 posts

Joined: Aug 2005


QUOTE(hueyseng84 @ May 24 2006, 06:20 PM)
guys.. i need help a bit on how to recover my password...

i din play dota for very long d for nearly half a year... den when i tried to login.. i can't...maybe i forgot my password...

how to retrieve it ah?

thanks...
*
may be ur acc already "destroy" by blizzard liao lor.......
cre8 new lar..........
hueyseng84
post May 24 2006, 06:53 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
880 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: screaming at Screamyx!!!
hmmm.... but i try to register... they said registration not allowed wor..

i am using my mmu email to register but failed.. aih aih.. now cannot play ...
Suet
post May 24 2006, 07:27 PM

Spank Whore :D
******
Senior Member
1,188 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Nexie's Fireplace!


I dread of having a game wth you.


But against you... thumbup.gif !!

QUOTE(ToGo @ May 24 2006, 12:54 PM)
Haha. Maybe we don't just purely discuss here. No point that if we don't understand each other strong and weak point. Maybe lets have a game together so that we could know each other and can come out with a better dicussion.
*
Klesk
post May 24 2006, 07:32 PM

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IMHO, RoB is a MUST, VS should be played as a supportive role, always make sure you have enuff mana to stun at all times... and yes S&Y is also a must... only bad thing bout her is that she's a slow farmer....
SUSfunkyboi
post May 24 2006, 07:42 PM

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QUOTE(Ban Guan @ May 24 2006, 06:17 PM)
dun think tat the guide taken from dota portal all is true

weakness
low HP => wtf of this, almost all int n agi hero (1.8 str /Lv lower than Snip/Bone ?)
slow attack speed => vs attack speed faster than bone(dint cast skill)
low stat growth => 1.8 + 2.35 + 1.75 = 5.9(better than other tat only + 5.2/Lv)
move speed lower then other hero tat only hav 280/275 ?

if this is weaknees of vs, then other hero is imbalance liao lar, all of them can "tapao go back kampung"  tongue.gif
my item for vs, all is cheap item but combine gather is nice item.......
ring of regen (1st sell if not enuf slot)
hand of midas (2nd sell if not enuf slot)
power tread
sange n yasha
yasha
chicken (aegis then DR or MKB then BFly)

note here
pt + hom = 1 HyperStone
SnY + Y really good in mid or mid-late game.
(sny' aura and y' aura can stack gather) rclxms.gif

try this kind of item build for all range agi hero.
u all will know the attack speed n movespeed increase how many.
*
HoM i always buy that 1st.
1 big centaur or big ursa can get 200+

xtr4
post May 24 2006, 07:44 PM

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i guess we must learn from the pro from the SMM tourney......apparently he could farm for an aegis (4400) @ lvl 9 only shocking.gif
R a D ! c 4 L
post May 24 2006, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(ToGo @ May 24 2006, 04:29 PM)
Hi Radic4al,

thanks for ur help. Before this  I got read this forum before also.
Personally feel that his item build not so good.
Maybe, I dunno how to use it well.
Just feel that he spending too much on Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse.
Which this item is not suit for VS. He want to use this tactic is just primary is just for VS to fire double maggic missle.
Eul's still ok.
But if u want to use his tactic, unless u are very very pro or u play with noobs, at mid game, be sure you kill like insance, get godlike , so that only have enough money to buy burize for late game weapon.
If not , u are dead. At late game, 2 fire magic missle just is scratching to alot of hero only. Not really harm them. Late game magic missle is purely disabler, no true damage. And late game ppl also come in gang, i don't think thier team mate will let u wait to fire 2 round of magic missle.
Actually, swap and magic missle is pretty enough for VS, dont need to go for thrid disabler
So  I feeel that his guide is more like paper speak soldier, not suit for noobs, average ppl..........
*
his guide is more of those supportive role of vs, and guinsoo is a good choice for one to be a supportive role. Have you seen a bone player getting Guinsoo? He did great with it. Have you tried/seen an Anti mage with 2 bashers and a Guinsoo? And its about making full use of the item that u get. Haha, like once you get sange, will you go for yasha after that and then combine them together? It all depends on whether your item synergies with others too. Go figure.

Even though you dont think the opposing team mate will not allow u to fire the 2nd shot of magic missile, there's still your teammates around helping you out right? dont tell me that u can go 1 on 5 on every hero in dota unless you have godly items though there are chances that you will lose your Divine Rapier but still there still a risk. Yeah sometimes you cant rely on your team mates at all, this purely the luck factor on whether you will have a good supporting teammates or wat.

And i feel that this guide is quite newbie friendly. Well, my term for newbie(noobs as u may call them) are those who willing to venture more of the game learn more ways and tactics to attain victory. Dota, is after all, a team based game. A newbie is for those who are willing to learn and get better at it. And then be a better player at it. But still not a pro. A pro for me is those who played games to earn money.

QUOTE(Ban Guan @ May 24 2006, 06:17 PM)
dun think tat the guide taken from dota portal all is true

weakness
low HP => wtf of this, almost all int n agi hero (1.8 str /Lv lower than Snip/Bone ?)
slow attack speed => vs attack speed faster than bone(dint cast skill)
low stat growth => 1.8 + 2.35 + 1.75 = 5.9(better than other tat only + 5.2/Lv)
move speed lower then other hero tat only hav 280/275 ?

if this is weaknees of vs, then other hero is imbalance liao lar, all of them can "tapao go back kampung"  tongue.gif
my item for vs, all is cheap item but combine gather is nice item.......
ring of regen (1st sell if not enuf slot)
hand of midas (2nd sell if not enuf slot)
power tread
sange n yasha
yasha
chicken (aegis then DR or MKB then BFly)

note here
pt + hom = 1 HyperStone
SnY + Y really good in mid or mid-late game.
(sny' aura and y' aura can stack gather) rclxms.gif

try this kind of item build for all range agi hero.
u all will know the attack speed n movespeed increase how many.
*
Yeah and balanar at night is super imbalance? dry.gif Like i said, its good to venture the game, not staying at one point where you think its enough then you just stop there.

In dota every heroes has its pros and cons. Its not like when you see terms like this then you go "oh this and tat has lot of str increase, tat is super imba" Those are just mere facts that you need to know about this hero. And purely he's stated out the facts of this hero. Its true. Not all heroes have the same stat growth. So do you think: pudge having this third skill(forgot the skill name. meh), where with 0.12 strenght increase per creep kill and 1 per hero is imba to you? Naga also has low stats growth then will you say that this may cost others to be imba too?

Every hero has its ups and downs, pros and cons. But that's why there's items and the term farming around. Naix has basicly the lowest base damage melee hero in the game(well as i know it was in v5). But there's items that can add up for his weakness.

I know im yada daba dooing here, but heck, im just pointing out the facts here. sleep.gif

btw, that's just a guide, READ, A GUIDE! o_o

This post has been edited by R a D ! c 4 L: May 24 2006, 09:45 PM
TSToGo
post May 24 2006, 10:04 PM

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Wou wou . Suet and funkyboy both wanna pawn me.
Hey guys and gals, who wanna side me ?
Come on, we have a dota LAN party.
Try to make it this weekend.
Who Wanna Join ?

Location : Blue Server
Date : This coming saturday nite about 11pm
or Sunday morning section.(We try to arrange majority time)


Sentinal
1.ToGo


Scourge
1.funkyboy
2.suet
TSToGo
post May 24 2006, 10:08 PM

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From: Penang


QUOTE(xtr4 @ May 24 2006, 07:44 PM)
i guess we must learn from the pro from the SMM tourney......apparently he could farm for an aegis (4400) @ lvl 9 only shocking.gif
*
Those with insanse build must be insanse farmer.
I deny thier build becos i am not good as them who can farm so fast so crazy.
I will climb from noob level slowly.
Wanna join LAN party game?
R a D ! c 4 L
post May 24 2006, 10:57 PM

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From: Kuala Lumpur


^btw, set a channel name for u guys to see each other haha then its not lan party liao since its the internet haha
xtr4
post May 25 2006, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(ToGo @ May 24 2006, 10:08 PM)
Those with insanse build must be insanse farmer.
I deny thier build becos i am not good as them who can farm so fast so crazy.
I will climb from noob level slowly.
Wanna join LAN party game?
*
sad.gif i would join, but i'll be up in genting for the chivas rave thumbup.gif tongue.gif laugh.gif
SUSfunkyboi
post May 25 2006, 02:32 AM

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friday night only i can togo, saturday night i go cc with friend tapau noob.
sunday i will be in an airplane.
TSToGo
post Jun 8 2006, 08:29 AM

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QUOTE(s[H]sIkuA @ May 14 2006, 04:22 AM)
try dagon if u versus alot of int/agi heroes, stun hit hit , swap, hit hit stun , dagon

Tried and Tested , ghey combo sweat.gif , need some nulls though to use all the spells, get euls or skadi or linken later
*
HI s[H]sIkuA,
I got try dagon on VS.
What you can say as is cool the moment you get it.
Deadly. But the cost to use dagon is too high.
At mid late and late game, seem is going to suffer with dagon.
Instead of 3000 for dagon price, you need to use either 2 null or void stone to support the high cost of mana. Totally us will cost you 4000. With this price, already going to be a S&Y price. Having such a delay will properly make your VS suffer. Unless you play with noob, the moment u get dagon, you have to kill like crazy to cover back the 4000 delay.

So temperarily feel that is not so suitable.
I will try more to in.
Mine to share with me the sequence you build ur item playing with dagon vengeful spiril in detail manner?

Rh+O
post Jun 8 2006, 12:08 PM

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get vanguard,lol.
chypher
post Jun 8 2006, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(ToGo @ May 24 2006, 10:04 PM)
Wou wou .  Suet and funkyboy both wanna pawn me.
Hey guys and gals, who wanna side me ?
Come on, we have a dota LAN party.
Try to make it this weekend.
Who Wanna Join ?

Location : Blue Server
Date : This coming saturday nite about 11pm
          or Sunday morning section.(We try to arrange majority time)
Sentinal
1.ToGo


Scourge
1.funkyboy
2.suet
*
i wanna join sentinel side.... -[ethereal]-
staurday nite, can can

Gamerz_Paradise
post Jun 8 2006, 04:04 PM

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hard to describe for VS, for once is my dearest hero...
used to build thru deso, butter/burize and aegis

but now if use maybe i go something diff..
power thread, midas, bkb, mkb and skadi if can make it..

Suet
post Jun 8 2006, 04:54 PM

Spank Whore :D
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From: Nexie's Fireplace!


I don't want to LAN with you cause I don't wanna have to see you. tongue.gif
And I don't like any Blue Server or Red or Spotted server that you are planning to serve. If you want to play with me and my friends, make a date, we'll come if we can. smile.gif

After that, we will pwn you in Swat4. laugh.gif

PS: Weekends I usually reserve for my bf, but if you insist I don't mind a game at all. happy.gif

QUOTE(ToGo @ May 24 2006, 10:04 PM)
Wou wou . Suet and funkyboy both wanna pawn me.
Hey guys and gals, who wanna side me ?
Come on, we have a dota LAN party.
Try to make it this weekend.
Who Wanna Join ?

Location : Blue Server
Date : This coming saturday nite about 11pm
or Sunday morning section.(We try to arrange majority time)
Sentinal
1.ToGo
Scourge
1.funkyboy
2.suet
*
Oh yeah wanna add: with the recent updates in 6.33, VS will be more pheared now with the Empty Bottle. rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by Suet: Jun 8 2006, 05:02 PM
TSToGo
post Jun 12 2006, 03:03 PM

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From: Penang


QUOTE(Suet @ Jun 8 2006, 04:54 PM)
I don't want to LAN with you cause I don't wanna have to see you. tongue.gif
And I don't like any Blue Server or Red or Spotted server that you are planning to serve. If you want to play with me and my friends, make a date, we'll come if we can. smile.gif

After that, we will pwn you in Swat4. laugh.gif

PS: Weekends I usually reserve for my bf, but if you insist I don't mind a game at all. happy.gif
Oh yeah wanna add: with the recent updates in 6.33, VS will be more pheared now with the Empty Bottle. rclxms.gif
*
Hi Suet,

You don't have to see me. I don't think I would go see you as well.
I m in penang, u at KL.
What I mean is biru or hamachi.
NVM, we just hold on 1st.
I wanna have a try on the lowyat clan training on this coming saturday.
Later on the we arrange. haha.




TSToGo
post Jun 12 2006, 03:05 PM

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From: Penang


QUOTE(chypher @ Jun 8 2006, 03:56 PM)
i wanna join sentinel side.... -[ethereal]-
staurday nite, can can
*
Hi chypher,

Y don't this saturday nite we play at lowyat clan 1st.
After that, then we only arrange for Suet to come try&c pawn us.
akira de aimbuster
post Jun 12 2006, 03:09 PM

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can add me to sentinel? aka sinx ^^
TSToGo
post Jun 12 2006, 03:25 PM

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Hi Suet,
Wow u are famous.
Many ppl wanna pawn let you pawn.

Sentinal
1.ToGo
2.chypher
3.akira de aimbuster

Scourge
1. Suet
2,3,4,5 suet say wanna bring her fren wow.


ps: funky boy, so how? U wanna join Sentinal or will bring your own fren as well?
Suet
post Jun 15 2006, 06:47 PM

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LOL I am not famous lah, unless someone in Bnet tells you abt this biatch who "maphack". sweat.gif I have such an erratic schedule, sigh. Don't really wanna pwn you and bash you up in the mud, just want to play and improve. smile.gif
TSToGo
post Jun 20 2006, 01:31 PM

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From: Penang


icic. I my in lyn now. Maybe you can join lyn. smile.gif Normally i play everyday la.
Just to let u know 1st, my standard is pro noob. Just slightly better than feeder. Hope that won't disappoint u too much.

This post has been edited by ToGo: Jun 20 2006, 01:43 PM
SUSKakaroch
post Sep 13 2006, 11:00 PM

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u all still got lan party?
doomvein
post Oct 19 2006, 12:19 PM

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2 Wrath and BOT enough for early dominating!..

Then

Use Deso!!! for Middle Game..

Stack With YOur Armor Reducing Skill ( Terror!!!)

Then..Late Game uP to You to buy everything.. smile.gif)


I love Vengie Also..But..Sometimes.use Hero repeatly....Boring ma..

yhtan
post Oct 19 2006, 04:19 PM

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hmm,my VS always pump hp
1st item usually sange,then go for heart tongue.gif
luKU
post Oct 19 2006, 07:00 PM

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tak habis habis vengeful spirit~ lol
lucif3r
post Oct 20 2006, 08:10 PM

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if i use vs then i just buy 3 bracer then all buy ob n sentry wards only..lolz

 

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