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 Haswell, Devil's Canyon, Pentium G3258 OC V1, 4790K/4760K/4770K/4670K/G3258 | LGA1150

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kmarc
post Jun 3 2013, 10:07 PM

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Just ordered a 4670k with Asrock Z87 extreme4 to replace my 5-6 years old Q6600 with P35-DS3.

Really out of touch with overclocking new CPUs and need a few pointers from you guys.

If I just want to overclock the 4670k without increasing the voltage, how far can I go? I just have to increase the multiplier until it is unstable?

Or maybe just increase vcore a bit? Default vcore is 0.75v right? hmm.gif

Any help from sifus is much appreciated! biggrin.gif
kmarc
post Jun 9 2013, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(owikh84 @ Jun 4 2013, 07:29 AM)
MY bad 4770K's VID is 1.05v.
Can keep using this VID up to 4.1GHz, which is supposed to perform equal to a 3770K @ 4.3-4.4GHz.

user posted image
*
Sorry, didn't notice your reply.

Are 4770k VID usually that high? My 4670k VID is 0.8250v.

user posted image

I am also unaccustomed to the vcore on haswell. Idle at 0.888v while at load it is lower at 0.864v rclxub.gif Isn't vcore at idle supposed to be lower (or rather, vcore at load higher)? hmm.gif

Vcore at idle
user posted image

Vcore at load
user posted image

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 9 2013, 10:35 PM
kmarc
post Jun 9 2013, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(hehee:) @ Jun 9 2013, 10:48 PM)
bro , u need to use the latest CPU-z to see the real Vcore *CPU-z 1.64.3
*
Owh..... ok, will download it and test. Thx.
kmarc
post Jun 9 2013, 11:35 PM

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Ahhh.... that's more like it! CPU-z makes sense now!

At idle - 0.708v
user posted image

At load - 1.064v
user posted image
kmarc
post Jun 10 2013, 07:04 AM

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QUOTE(hehee:) @ Jun 10 2013, 12:29 AM)
I use the custom blend....but it runs few hours withour crash..but IBT...no luck....lol...

Hahaa...ya , feel the new tech......if its FB i would hav click "like" ...lol
Awaiting some expert giv advise on Asrock features ....really confuse of the new oc setting.
*
Cool! I'm using Asrock z87 extreme4...... but still don't know how to overclock yet... biggrin.gif

Do you get the freeze bug in BIOS? Mine will freeze on & off.... searched the net and some people also do have that problem.... vmad.gif
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 09:26 AM

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Today I start overclocking! Have to read up on how to overclock first sweat.gif

Not aiming for extreme OC. 4.2 - 4.4 Ghz at around 1.15 - 1.20v possible? biggrin.gif
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 09:26 AM

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Today I start overclocking! Have to read up on how to overclock first sweat.gif

Not aiming for extreme OC. 4.2 - 4.4 Ghz at around 1.15 - 1.20v possible? biggrin.gif
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Jun 17 2013, 10:08 AM)
not sure ure board can do this but set cpu voltage and cpu cache ring voltage manual.
the rest leave it at offset mode.

this way u get the full c-states.
its pretty awesome watching ure proc at idle at 0.00v. lol
killed any??
no chance to test the gaygay yesterday as the proc i put it kindda sux on voltage/imc everything imaginable. vcore at 1.2v 4.2ghz barely passed.
*
I set to 1.200v and 44 CPU ratio. Able to boot but BSOD on prime95 (code 124)

Now set to 1.200v at 43 CPU ratio and stressing. Vcore on CPU-z 1.198v
Temp 70-75'c with open side casing sweat.gif
CPU voltage to Adaptive (Read on the internet that adaptive voltage is the best as it will idle at stock speed and voltage)

The funny thing is, on boot up, it runs at 3.4Ghz. On stress, goes up to 4.3Ghz. After stopping stress testing, only then will the CPU drop to 800mhz at 0.703v rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 17 2013, 11:19 AM
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 11:34 AM

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So far so good. Temp at 76'c max sweat.gif

Attached Image

In bios, I just change minimal settings:

1) Set CPU ratio - All cores
2) All core ratio - 43
3) CPU adaptive voltage 1.200v
4) DRAM voltage to manual - 1.6v stock for my rams
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 02:21 PM

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Ok, didn't test so much at 1.2v.

4.2Ghz @ 1.15v, prime95 stable for 10 minutes.

Now reduce to 4.2Ghz @ 1.100v. Going to settle for 4.2Ghz and see how low I can set the voltage.

Not too sure why Vcore on CPUz is higher at 1.129v. When I set to 1.200v in bios, it will quite accurately show 1.198v in CPUZ. When I set to 1.150v, it showed 1.153v

Temp : 72'c with closed side casing.

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 17 2013, 02:24 PM


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kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(stasio @ Jun 17 2013, 02:31 PM)
Good thing is that your 4670K, have quite same temperature per core, in idle and load.
*
From what I noticed, can vary up to 5'c. That's normal? hmm.gif

Right, reduced the voltage to 1.050v in bios but vcore still showing 1.129v rclxub.gif. Exactly the same as when I set at 1.100v
- don't know whether the motherboard is automatically feeding more voltage or not.....

Whooaaaa...... I didn't notice the CPU cache voltage was default at "override" setting. Was running at 1.200v sweat.gif Set it to adaptive at 1.05v like the cpu setting.

Update : BSOD error 124. Increasing CPU vcore back to 1.100v. Dunno whether any difference as CPUz still show 1.129v rclxub.gif

Update 2 : 30 mins stable at 1.100v..... 2 1/2 more hours to go..... sad.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 17 2013, 03:23 PM
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(stasio @ Jun 17 2013, 03:28 PM)
Better then normal.......mostly one (or 2) core are offset 10+... C.
*
I see.....

Prime at 1 hour still ok. No BSOD. I just can't understand why cpuz vcore is the same whether I set 1.05v or 1.10v in bios.... rclxub.gif

Update : Almost 2 hours. So far so good. Gonna have to stop soon. Quite happy with this OC.

Temps are with closed side casing in aircon room.

Gonna try with gaming later. If stable, this will be my OC NEXT TIME! Going to run at stock for now as CPU powahhh is more than adequate.... biggrin.gif

Attached Image

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 17 2013, 04:46 PM
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(stasio @ Jun 17 2013, 04:56 PM)
Your A-Tuning report CPU Voltage 1.726V ?  hmm.gif
*
I was told that was Vccin. smile.gif

QUOTE(Naraw @ Jun 17 2013, 05:00 PM)
Some noob question. I oc-ed my i5 to 4.5ghz at 1.2v. When I stress test using msi's tool its stable but prime95 not stable. Is my voltage not enough?
*
Too high OC? My 4670k BSOD after stressing at 4.4Ghz @ 1.2v. Had to reduce to 4.3Ghz @ 1.2v then more stable.

QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Jun 17 2013, 05:34 PM)
Theres 4 ways to clock
Fully manual
Adaptive
Offset
SVID

adaptive issue is the vcore can be more than what u set.
So far seems manual on vcore n ring bus with offset on vcssa/cpu io d/a is the best. Fully c-state.
*
I see. So it is the adaptive setting.... hmm.gif

Hmmm.... I might just settle for adaptive setting.... see see how.....

QUOTE(Naraw @ Jun 17 2013, 07:54 PM)
I tried again with the same settings for prime95. If more than 15min bsod appears. Ram settings at auto.
*
Try reducing to 4.4Ghz or 4.3Ghz or increase your CPU voltage. What's your temperature on stress test?
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 09:45 PM

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Arrrgghhh!!! All my OC for nothing!

Booted up my normal windows at 4.2Ghz @ 1.1v. Run prime95 (27.9) and noted vcore jumped to 1.198v and temperature jumped to 81-82'c!!!!

Compared to my previous OC (in a fresh windows 7), the weird thing was that the same prime95 ran small FFTs with type-0 FFT. Now in my main windows 7, it is using AVX FFT!!! rclxub.gif

Summary
Prime95 (27.9) in fresh win 7 (type-0 FFT) - OC 4.2Ghz @ 1.1v, vcore 1.129v in CPUz, realtemp 72'c max (2 hours stable)
Prime95 (27.9) in main win 7 (AVX FFT shocking.gif ) - OC 4.2Ghz @ 1.1v, vcore 1.198v in CPUz, realtemp 81-82'c (in a few seconds)!!!! sweat.gif

Wasted my whole day..... vmad.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 17 2013, 09:46 PM
kmarc
post Jun 17 2013, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(owikh84 @ Jun 17 2013, 09:55 PM)
Let me guess.

Your main win7 is Service Pack 1 (SP1)
fresh win7 is vanilla (none-SP1)

SP1 has AVX instruction which vanilla doesn't.
*
notworthy.gif

cry.gif Didn't know that cry.gif

However, I guess all is not lost. Played some games e.g. BF3, bioshock infinite and my OC is stable and vcore is at the usual 1.129v and not 1.2v.

Read about adaptive voltage from the 1st page link (the 3 step guide to overclocking i7/i5). I guess that's the reason why my proc shot up to 1.2v but more or less safe as most CPU-intensive process don't jack up the vcore more than what is set in bios.

QUOTE
Caveat – big, massive, honking, pay attention to this – caveat! When using adaptive voltage, the top of the curve isn’t necessarily the whole story. ASUS drove this point home when we met and I’m doing so now; we all need to do this as a public service to our users and readers. Even though you set 1.25 V as your maximum voltage, under certain very heavy loading conditions (i.e. stress testing), the voltage can and will exceed the maximum you have set. Let me say that again – if you stress test using adaptive voltage, even with the maximum set to 1.25 V, the CPU will – guaranteed – request and receive more voltage than you have told the motherboard to deliver it. It’s just the way this works.

In the ASUS demonstrations, setting a maximum 1.25 V in this scenario and then running something like AIDA64, Prime95, etc – any stress testing application designed to stress more than normal loads – the CPU requests and gets ~1.36 V. There is nothing you can do about this and it will happen whether you want it to or not. The only way to prevent stress testing programs from pulling extra voltage is to use a manually set voltage, which takes away your CPU’s ability to reduce voltage when idle.

All is not lost though! You probably noticed every time I told you what would happen it went hand in hand with stress testing. That’s because those are the only scenarios that will lead to this behavior. In all other circumstances so far as ASUS can tell, the CPU will cap at the set 1.25 V and never exceed it. Even if you’re Folding@Home it should maintain the 1.25 V cap (though those folding at home are under 100% load all the time and I’d suggest using a manual voltage for those machines just in case). Likewise, video encoding, audio encoding, compression, rendering – any CPU-intensive process, your CPU will maintain the 1.25 V cap.

So, now that you know the very important caveat, set 1.25 V as your maximum voltage with adaptive voltage, enable C1E and EIST (which throttle your multiplier and voltage when not under load) and go on with your merry life knowing your CPU is as relaxed as it can get when idle.



QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Jun 17 2013, 05:34 PM)
Theres 4 ways to clock
Fully manual
Adaptive
Offset
SVID

adaptive issue is the vcore can be more than what u set.
So far seems manual on vcore n ring bus with offset on vcssa/cpu io d/a is the best. Fully c-state.
*
One day when I have time to OC again, I will ask you how to set the "offset on vcssa/cpu io digital/analogue"....... notworthy.gif

For now, back to stock clock! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 17 2013, 10:30 PM
kmarc
post Jun 19 2013, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(owikh84 @ Jun 18 2013, 11:44 PM)
alright looks like we have a version of LinX working for Haswell on win7 SP1 (not Win8)

Credit to acebmxer @ XS

OMG, bad news guys.
LinX 0.6.4 (10.3.7) is actually stressing more than I thought.
Now 4.6GHz @ 1.44v will hit TJmax of 100C instantly.
Now i have to reduce overclock to 4.4GHz @ 1.375v in order to avoid from overheating.  sweat.gif
So, from now onwards I will not use Prime95 27.9 for stability check anymore because it is not ready for Haswell thus not as stressful as LinX.
*
That's on water? sweat.gif

As mentioned previous, on my air-cooled Venomous X, prime95 (non-AVX) @ 4.2Ghz @1.1v was already touching 70-75'c. On prime95 (AVX) was 80-82'c. I can't imagine if I start to use LinX! rclxub.gif

Now I'm beginning to think whether there is a stress program that can test for stability without the temperature going through the roof. Can I say that since prime95 (non-AVX) @ 4.2Ghz @ 1.1v was stable for 3 hours, my rig would be "relatively" stable 99.99% of the time? hmm.gif
kmarc
post Jun 19 2013, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(owikh84 @ Jun 19 2013, 12:47 PM)
yupe thats under water.
Prime95 needs some updates for Haswell. Normally I would trust LinX or IBT only since it tell us the GFlops which shows the efficiency and accuracy of our overclocks. Eg.

4.5GHz @ 1.25v - 125 GFlops, 85C
4.5GHz @ 1.3v - 135 GFlops, 90C

The higher the  GFlops, the more performance the overclock yield. So, 1.3v is picked as our preferred vCore.

That was on win7 SP1 with AVX instruction AND LinX with AVX libraries build 10.3.7.

On win7 non SP1 OR LinX non AVX, you would get:

4.5GHz @ 1.15v - 60 GFlops, 60C

lower GFlops and reduced performance of AVX supported apps and might sometimes get BSOD on routine works.

Thats why I said the hotter or the more vCore needed, the more stressful the app. Also, the more vdroop (lower load vCore) the more stressful.
*
Wow! 85'c on water for 4.5Ghz @ 1.25v sweat.gif

Ok, I will try Linx this Friday when I'm on leave ( rclxm9.gif ). Thx for the clear explanation.

Trying to get some info on AVX and gaming but looks like not much info at the moment. Aikes, there's even AVX2 probably to make my proc roast more!!! biggrin.gif
kmarc
post Jun 19 2013, 08:18 PM

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QUOTE(owikh84 @ Jun 19 2013, 04:00 PM)
Anyway, to choose whatever stress app is really up to you.

I even saw an OCN forummer advised fellows not to use AVX based stability tool because it doesnt represent daily routine work lol.

Another forumer from XS told me that if you could finish the Fritz Chess benchmark then your overclock should run fine on any game without stability issue.
*
Yeah, that's why I was asking whether I should just stress test using non-AVX prime95.....

Oh well, will test test LinX this friday but I think I won't use AVX-stress apps to test for stability. Not comfortable with high temperatures....
kmarc
post Jun 20 2013, 11:11 AM

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OMG! Tested linX 10.3.7 at 4.2Ghz @ 1.1v (Bios) and hanged after 10 seconds!

4.1Ghz @ 1.1V (Bios), 1.193v (CpuZ), temps at 81-87'c sweat.gif

Attached Image


QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Jun 20 2013, 09:12 AM)
Read one of my reply y owikh does the stress test. He needs a confirm vcore for that 4.6ghz because of all the custom mem clocking.
*
Now I'm a bit irritated by "adaptive" mode. Mind telling me the minimum setting for manual mode (it is override mode right?) if I want max CPU voltage to be 1.15v?

Should CPU voltage be override to 0.700v and CPU voltage offset +0.35v?

Damn... have to do more research.... sweat.gif

QUOTE(Naraw @ Jun 20 2013, 09:49 AM)
Ran Linx last night for 30mins. i5 at 4.4ghz, 1.15v. Gflops was at 119 and max temp was 92C. At 1.17v, Gflops was at 121 and temp at 95C.
*
1.15v in BIOS or CPUz?

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jun 20 2013, 11:11 AM
kmarc
post Jun 20 2013, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Jun 20 2013, 11:19 AM)
Really not sure about asrock. But u can see on my screen shot.
My CPU is on Manual ( not sure why it says ring bus is manual but its actually on auto)
The rest VCSSA/CPU Digital/Analogue i/o is offset.

this is the best.
adaptive is totally not recommended for haswell because of the heat

adaptive is like setting a offset based on ure vid for the multiplier and then giving more for turbo. something like that.

checking for ure mobo bios screenshot.
*
Right, so if I want CPU voltage @ 1.15v max, I should set something like this?:

CPU voltage 1.05v
Digital I/O offset 0.1v

Will try out and see.....

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