will this GST 7% is to be implement into property buying? if it does, would be like i need to pay 7% from the property price and etc?

I think all will be include, from you buying a tissue paper until buying a property and so on. And all the service you get during the purcasing property also will be charge for 7% such as legal fees and so on.

True?? A 100k property would taxed for 7k straight away, how ridiculous.

agree.. now already the people having a hard time getting own house..if really implemented into property, conservative calculation of 100k is 7k. nowadays a decent property easily cost 300k or 400k onwards.. it could be implemented coz our magician says got affordable house for u all..

Buyer or seller also need bared the cost...
if really apply GST on house purchaser...normally will be calculate base on net sales price.(This apply to country like Singapore or Australian.)
For the seller like developer/property agent,they need add out all the income(basic+ commission)before get GST.
That include lawyer,bank legal fee also add up together with GST fee...

Really need in future.

Need to wait for another 5 years in order to change this true.

hahaha.

What I can said is most of the time, the buyer will bear everything.

Because if government tax to the vendor/owner/seller, than they will just mark up again their price.

For example, initially they want to get back 200k, since now already implement this tax, they just want to let go at lease at the price of 214k.

I don't think so , government already charge so high stampduty for the property transaction , as i know most of the basic need like rice ,sugar, petrol etc is excluded from the GST . maybe the lawyer fee (service charge) u have to pay GST .

no, property is GST exempted.

What to do...GST apply mostly to every one...
If best GST just apply on property about 1 milion.That should ok.
If really GST apply to bank loan..omg....that pain....exp:bank loan 400K,+7%(28K),buyer no money pay 7%,so apply loan+gst 7%=428K.

but if we no use goverment service to do transaction,that mean no need pay gst....exp:jual goreng pisang tepi jalan.

aiya.

i already answer this one la.


QUOTE(HiT-AbLe @ May 20 2013, 10:47 AM)
Do we have to pay GST for buying property in case barang naik implements GST?
*
indirectly already included on the developer materials price.

Property is exempted. But agent fee need to pay gst.

since so long alr got 6% service tax on Lawyer Fees, Agent Fees.. You check your old bill you'll see it

which means that in the end it was the end user, the rakyat need to bear the cost...

it is anytime better to buy now instead of next year..even no gst property will sure increase

eh..where u buy the pisang ah? buy the utilities for the goreng leh? also kena 7% isnt it?

Because our lovely government already give a lot of people RM 500 before the election, now is time to collecting back those gula-gula

yup...agree.. good la, keep on vote them la..mati sama sama...

nothing is guarantee in malaysia .

get pisang from kampung ppl,use the old kuali,buy recycle oil from kfc & throw some plastic..that will be a lot of business.(usually how famous goreng pisang tauke do)...erm..for tepung,no choose,need buy lo...

Ya lor, otherwise stamp duty and GST together would be considered Double Taxation.

so at the end property will kena or not actually? this BN is really making me frustrated la. people who voted for them really stupid

ah ha !!!! 7% on tepung.. kena juga

then the magician will introduce a new law... due to the overwhelming response in property, we are implementing the gst into property to control the investor, flippers and the property price..lol

haha.. wat to do..itu new minister say u tak suka u keluar lo... haha.. wat a joke man

Yes !!! !!!! ! ! ! ! ! !!! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! ! !! !! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! ! ! 1

what the hell...already hard to buy property, now they wanna do this thing.

it is not secret that in the end all the GST money collected will be distributed to Ah Jib and Rosmah and their "dogs"

yup its exempted. but i reckon the sale price is already bloated to cater the 7% increase in the construction portion. materials, services etc.

in the end, rakyat is the one fcuked.

U know going against them may not be possible. Maybe need to try other method. Taikors of PR masuk BN and bersihkan BN? Huhu.

gosh...this is so unfair. developer are still earning! but buyers are screwed.

with GST implemented, everything will be affected. food, water etc. it will be a chain reaction

What I know about the proposed Malaysia GST:-

1). It is proposed that the GST is being taxed at 4%. The mentioned 7% was said by a minister that was not backed by any sources.

2). According to the proposed GST, they are 3 catergories of GST.
a). Standard supply--> It apply to almost all stuffs except for those under exempt and Zero-rated supply. For Standard Supply, the end user/consumers bear the GST.
b). Zero-rated supply --> It apply to daily necessity foodstuff. The term zero-rated means, no GST on input and output, so theoritically, the price of these items should not be inflated by GST (but in practice, the price still increase due to GST...)
c). Exempt supply--> Housing. GST on input but not output. It means that the developers need to absorb the GST and cannot pass to the buyers.

3) Exempt supply for housing
The proposed GST states that the developers need to absorb GST. In practice the developers just add the cost of GST and pass it to the buyers (which is not allowed to do so). But how to govern/prove these? Which developers are so clumsy to bear the GST cost?

Hope these can clarify some issues.

This post has been edited by Denis: May 20 2013, 04:04 PM

Totally agreed, GST imposed on the materials & services will be imputed in the selling price of the property. No developer will adsorb d GST on behalf of the purchasers.

Too bad the BR1M is not gonna cover that, not even an inch.

However, it is the government that 'we' people choose, it is a democratic decision and we must not have any complain anything over that, they said

Last time i always heard affordable houses will be catered by government. This reminds me of the story of mustapha kemal ataturk of turkey. Said something else but he did 180 degrees of what he said.

This post has been edited by AMINT: May 20 2013, 09:25 PM

buy/sell (unconfirmed basis)
- luxury residential subjected to GST standard rate. "luxury" definition is unclear
- non luxury residential, GST shld be out of scope
- commercial shoplots/office and commercial residence are likely subjected to GST standard rate

Leasing/long term tenancy
- private residence is an exempted supply...no GST but input GST borned by developer will be blocked and passed on to purchasers
- commercial property will subject to GST standard rate
- commercial residence is an exempted supply...no GST but input GST payable by developer will be blocked and passed on to purchasers

agent/legal fees
- this will subject to GST standard rate and current 6% service tax will be discontinued

Only for consumer goods I think, or else many people will be rage on the streets

many ppl already rage on the streets since after election... it doesnt affect our "People First" gov also... instead of listening to them, they warn that "stern" actions will be taken against those illegal rally goers... so do expect the worst so you can be prepared, rather than let yourself got caught by surprise...

once GST implement, directly or indirectly property prices will increase... the last time petrol increase, non related stuff sold like Teh Tarik also rise price... what more this time GST on goods and materials...

so in the end, we rakyat can only hear "lu tak suka lu keluar"

In the end, ppl that chosen to wait to buy property ended up to lost even more. Malaysia oh Malaysia

+1 thats why i dunno why people still wana debate going up or down. The sign is so obvious even before may 5th..

what is vacation club?

Property price increase due to GST (going to implement sooner or later) and minimum labour salary (foreign) ady RM900.. Can imagine property price now o.0

right now our government will implement 7% GST so it makes property price increase. What IF opposition won and implement minimum labour salary to RM1100?

IMHO property price still increase and buyer still need to pay more. Correct me if im wrong...

+1 if u ask me, either PR or BN wins, price will still go up. Unless there is an instability in terms of security like riots everywhere.

At the moment, the proposed GST has presented to the parliament for the 1st reading. 2nd reading and 3rd reading yet to be done. If GST is gonna to replace Sales and Service Tax (SST), then it needs 2/3 majority of the YB to pass through as it involves changes of indirect tax collection system (if I m not mistaken).

After the 13th election, opposition managed to get over 1/3 of the parliament seats and they are opposing GST.
This mean that GST may not be implemented in the forseeable future , imho.

you also will said 1/3 parliament will opposite, but still got 2/3 still is BN, and the chair man of the country is Najib... so i dont think Parliament opposite will win for this issue...

GST confirm will implement, just timing only, maybe in end of the year wait for everything smooth 1st...

Thats why they give u a sweet and take away a pack of sugar from you... we 51% apposed

i observed that price in up up now.. if those wait, just need to take a bet to wait more longger to confirm the GST issue better =)

Read carefully, I said over 1/3 is held by opposition. That mean BN is holding less than 2/3.
Get it?

This post has been edited by Denis: May 21 2013, 02:01 PM

BN is hold 133 Parliament, Oppsition is hold 89 Parliament...

BN still strong that Oppsition, and the Najib still is the king... so the decision is not made by Opposition...

You need to face about GST.... dont give so many hope can avoid GST..

Bro, 2/3 required only to amend constitution

To pass parliament bills/law, simple majority will do.

And I thought 3rd reading has already been done ? Everything is ready but ah jib chicken out last minute....

So, GST is just waiting for ah jib to say "Go !". That will be after UMNO election, if ah jib is still the president. If not it will be Moohidin to call...

That is too bad.
Anyway, thanks for clarification.

WWW or BBB now depends on luck. haha

Yup to pass an bills/laws, simple majority will do. So, GST actually has already passed. However, they needed to wait until after GE 13. Implementing it before GE 13 spells doom for BN. Only those stupid will vote for BN.

On another note, the opposition can still challenge the law in court. They can bring it up to the high count upto federal court. Having said so, imagine the impossibility of the fed court supporting the oppositions. To all, spend less on anything. GST is totally different from SST. GST is imposed on ALL LAYERS of goods and services, while SST is imposed on sales point. Once GST implemented, petrol will increase, then transportation will increase. Once it comes to consumers, it's no more 7*, but 7% on increasing balance on every layer.

Say a fisherman catches fish. He needs petrol, which has 7% on it. He catches and sells to middle man, charges anoda 7% on, say RM100*7%. Then comes to market, sells to those market fish sellers, anoda 7% gone. Don't forget about petrol to transport. Then they transport to fish market, another 7%. Lastly to us, ANOTHER 7%. If u do the maths, it's more than 6x of 7%. Haha

Guys, and not to forget the markup on selling point. Once u add up, you will notice 3k a month on salary will get u NOWHERE. lol

Salary increase 7% got or not? LOL

haih.. How to buy property now.

I pity those who really listen to DDD camp in the "property up or down" thread. Look at what happens if they listen to DDD camp. Everybody else still wanna listen to them? I dont consider myself upupup camp or down down down camp. I was and still am being realistic. Anyway, there will still gonna be reasonably priced props. I am sure of it. Just dont expect top notch with the lesser money being paid for it

DDD?
Oh... down down down
Anyway, for me .. anytime is a good time to buy, as long as one has the money and found good deal, please do go ahead . No one can predict when is the market going to come down... not even the developer n gov... if those ppl r greater than the developer or gov.. why dont they build their own house or own project...
I call them speculator... they love to speculate and if their wrong.. nothing wrong.. if their correct..then they will come out and say how good they r n how great they r
Property investment is a long term thingy... mostly will make profit in the long run 5-10 years.

This post has been edited by savants: May 21 2013, 05:41 PM

correction on the "buy/sell"

- residential titled property is GST exempted....no GST but input GST payable by developer will be blocked and passed on to purchasers. In other words, residential property shld be increased even GST is exempted
- commercial titled property incl residential property - GST standard rate will apply.

Jagan main main la friend.

Why people wanted to buy at market 6x? If can buy a cheaper one at pasar tani? 1x

not like that lah kawan . ask ur accounting friend, after input n output the GST rate only charge on last end user price only lah !

Bro, GST does not work "layer on layer". It tax only once at the output point only Ie. the ultimate consumer gets to pay GST.

Those GST at various input points before the final consumer consumes it are all claimable from the Customs. In your example of fisherman, all those middle man, supermarket and everyone in between, although they pay GST, but they can claim back from the Customs. Hence there is zero cost effect on supplier, manufacturer and business, so they have no reason to hike price. It is only the eventual consumer who pay GST to the Customs.

You got to study how GST works before firing away lah

BTW, I think essential food like fish, and petrol are zero-rated, so no GST is charged

Too bad those tok down the market hav bot enuf to pocket handsome profit. Onli 47% blif in ddd imho. Luckily stil hav 53% listen to xxx. my guess onli.

petroleum fuels shld be standard rate and not zero rated.

I audited kmn act b4 i think gas. petrol is already in bahan api tax rate. so should be zero.

Our mia or Malaysia institute of taxation really take boleh pakai. they should come out and explain gst to public. but so far no one articler.

See we have people like kitty take advantages.

Developer only indirectly bill Gst on uncontrollable building materials. how many times need accountant like me to tell u?

You may refer to excise duty which is currently suspended as it is in subsidy mode due to high crude prices. GST is a different tax regime that is multi stage in the production and supply chain.

I always have difficulties to determine which goods and services are GST taxable and which are not. Do you have link which itemise it ?

Althoug. i retired already. but i am jv bahan api buz now. so i think i am right.

You cld refer to the GST guides in gst.customs.gov.my. O
less than 20 guides currently in the GST portal and eventually will be around 80guides for different schemes and industries.

You may mixed up excise sales tax and GST...time will tell and confirm if fuels for local use is standard rate or zero rated.

It pointless because the gst tax exemption for goods have not finalise yet.

In normal circumstance essential item rice, vege is not gst-ed.

Car already got sales tax if got gst somemore the price will be too expensive and it would hurt local car dealer, so it depends how the government want to implement it.

But really if insurance also need to paid gst I will , cause only income- poor people need to buy insurance, why tax the poor.

Existing sales tax(10%) and service tax(6%) will be discontinued when GST is introduced. So sales tax for cars will be gone and replaced by GST of lower rate. So car price shld be lower in GST environment.

[quote=The Jedi,May 21 2013, 11:25 PM]
You may mixed up excise sales tax and GST...time will tell and confirm if fuels for local use is standard rate or zero rated.



Agree time will tell.

If standard rate apply how will industry claim back from it output? Remember own consumption apply as well.

Deduct own use is one way. but it will be messy.

That also why i say it will be zero.

Even if not charge 7% at every level, cost of living will still go up.
The fisherman, the middle man, the fish monger, and chef each have to pay more for goods that they and family use personally (motor, car, appliances, medicine, daily necessities, etc., because of GST) in their daily lives. So each will add cost to the fish indirectly and the end user has to pay more on top of the proposed GST. Does that make sense?

Don't forget other tax like carbon tax could be added.

[quote=tikaram,May 21 2013, 10:42 PM]
[quote=The Jedi,May 21 2013, 11:25 PM]
You may mixed up excise sales tax and GST...time will tell and confirm if fuels for local use is standard rate or zero rated.

Agree time will tell.

If standard rate apply how will industry claim back from it output? Remember own consumption apply as well.

Deduct own use is one way. but it will be messy.

That also why i say it will be zero.

[/quote]
Industry just a collecting agent in GST world. Output tax will be collected and offset against GST input tax. Own consumption of fuels is not a taxable supplies and GST is not accounted.

Noted majority still has a incomplete perception and understanding about GST here and this will take time for the public to understand. In developed countries, the public education will take years and best to implement GST when economy is fluorishing and political is stable... unfortunately these two key factors are lacking in bolehland now

Carbon tax is not applicable in Msia... Still long long way to go and even many OECD countries also yet to apply this tax

Your understanding of GST is flawed. GST is incurred at each stage of value chain and it is pass through tax and in general not expenses or cost item to the business. The final end stage of value chain, the end customer, is liable to pay the GST. This is the fundamental concept of GST and it has been apply in 150 countries. In Asia, only MSIA, HK and Brunei yet to implement GST.

The govt projects that they will increase annual revenue by RM27billion via GST. That means on average, every man, woman and child in this country contribute almost RM1000 each per year. Of course some contribute more, but this is on average. Is this a reasonable estimate?

Minister made a mistake here... GST at 7% collected shld b 27b and not additional. Current SST collected abt 17b. To ease the burden of end consumers especially the poor, govt shld reduce salary tax and corporate tax plus use some of the collected to fund BR1M to help the targeted poor that lives below the poverty threshold

Ok point taken, what I meant is not expense or cost to business. I mean every person along the supply chain will be impacted personally by increase in cost of living. And they in turn will charge more to be able to live normally. Isn't that a reasonable assumption?

It's difficult to explain GST concept with pure words and best use diagram to explain. Suggest you google GST and get better understanding. I used to think like you before I understand the concept... This is a clear example where the govt needs to spend considerable time to educate and explain GST to the public. GST will doom to fail if communication is inadequate

HaHa ,aku janji BR1M increase to rm 1000.00 next year - that is where the money come ! All the family members contribute 1K , but only some family get 1K - good idea . Lol

What I mention is not about the mechanism of GST.
Can we agree everyone on average has to pay more for goods and services?
If Yes, than there will be this vicious cycle and will cost everything to go up.
There is also the Festive Season Barang Naik syndrome - invented by myself
People will use any excuse to raise prices.

GST = gay sex and transexuals. Sounds like another version of sex and the city.

This post has been edited by AMINT: May 21 2013, 11:34 PM

I think GST - Goncang Sampai Tiada - more match .

This post has been edited by skcJVN: May 22 2013, 12:15 AM

Hi Jedi, i wish to understand more on GST, i tried to google but i cant get any suitable website can explain to me how it works...can u post a link here, help us to understand the mechanism of gst ? thanks in advance

I am PR supporter and LGE is my idol. but when he said on average every citizen need to pay 1k addtional on tax....im doubt his statement...what if the additional tax income is generate from rich ppl ?

I would agree on GST if i can see rich ppl contribute more tax...and personal tax rate need to be adjust...

Rich ppl buy more thing pay more GST , but they can afford . Poor ppl buy less thing pay less GST , but they hard to afford ! GST is to make sure EVERY trading \business activity no miss from taxing

Some realty already charged 6% GST. I've been charged in year 2010 when i rent out my condo. 5% GST back then.

mind explaining a little more from your own understanding?
using layman terminalogy, i would expect compounded addition.
i mean, supplier a to supplier b. if supplier's a product somehow suffered an increase, he will impose the addition to supplier b. a will collect additional GST to be paid to gomen. hence supplier b would pay supplier a their new rates + GST.
if supplier B starts selling to supplier C. they would surely repeat the same thing, no?

What I mean is the full list of stuff we consume, which is subject to GST, and which is not. Currently there are no detailed list....

Eg.

Food stuff.....zero-rated --> rice, meat, vege. standard-rated --> canned food, milo, 100plus

Can't find the list....

Let's use numbers, maybe easier to understand

Supplier A sells stuff to Supplier B --> price RM100 + GST RM4 = RM104. Supplier A remits RM4 GST to Customs

Supplier B re-sells the same stuff to Supplier C --> RM110 + GST RM4.40 = RM114.40. Supplier B claim RM4 from Customs. So, nett pay to Customs is RM0.40

Supplier C re-sells the same stuff to Consumer --> RM120 + GST RM4.80 = RM124.80. Supplier C claim RM4.40 from Customs. So, nett pay to Customs is RM0.40

Total GST collected by Customs is RM4.00 + RM0.40 + RM0.40. Which is the eventual selling price RM120 x 4% = RM4.80.

Therefore, it is not "layer on layer". The final consumer actually pay the GST. Business have no reasons to hike price. But in actual fact, some business will take opportunity to profit I think

Yes, and there is bound to be other effects.
Supplier A will also pay higher price for necessities that he and his family uses personally.
After all Supplier A is also a consumer, right?
So to make ends meet, he will raise the price by a few RM as well.
The same with supplier B and C and so on.
This is the indirect consequence of GST.
And like you said, businesses will take the opportunity to raise prices for no good reason.

No reason?

Without GST, previously with no GST, start with Rm100, then sell at Rm120,
now with 4% GST, final price become RM124.80, there is 4.80 hike in price already, why it is no reason?

Also there is considerable paper work need to be done and hire personnel to do tax computation, as a business may not deal with 1 item only. A product that may need 10 items to make up for it, so need to take in 10 GST paid previously, kind of tedious job.
So it means company may need to hire more personnel to do the job for GST, or increase the the workload of office admin, so potential increase of cost, another reason to hike price.

If gov managed to raise its revenue from GST, means that someone in between or consumer to pay for it already.
Money won't pop up on its own, if gov managed to raise 10 billion revenue from GST, then someone need to pay the 10 billion, you do not need sophisticated math to do the counting.
Either corporate profit become less (company absorb the GST, and price remain the same), or consumer need to pay more for it. (eg. 120, become 124.80)

Company profit less or some may even no profit or loss, another reason to hike price.

Consumer pay more for it, then has less money left for others, demand wages hike from employer (very typical and norm).
Wages hike, more cost to employer, another reason for company to hike price to compensate.

This post has been edited by cherroy: May 22 2013, 10:10 PM

That's y I said it's layer on layer. Due to GST, there will be a charge on every goods sold. For supplier B, lets say he sells at RM110 like u said. However, previously, he buys at RM100, now since RM104, he will need to charge more to cover his losses of RM4. Yes you will say he can claim back. However think it this way, claiming back will be a later issue. Do you think the Customs will remit the money IMMEDIATELY? Claiming back will take at least 2-3 months or maybe more.

See those people claiming for tax refunds from IRB. Some takes up to 2 years just to get RM100 from IRB. Now, we're talking about thousands in GST paid to the Customs. Do you think they can get back the money as soon as they need to pay? Remitting will be easy, but claiming it back is like climbing mount everest. So to cover for the temporary difference in loss due to GST, they will then charge it to Supplier C. So it's definitely not RM114.40 as you said. To cover for the temporary difference, they will definitely sell at RM118.40 to Supplier C since they paid extra GST RM4 to Supplier A to remit to the Custom.

Dude, it's a rolling ball effect. For those who said I dun understand this GST system, you're definitely too naive. You think you guys understand when all you guys are doing is simple maths calculation. The effect is more than just simple maths. Think it this way as kicking a ball. Everyone wants it, but only one player out of 22 can get it. Same like GST, everyone wants to claim, but how fast can u claim it back? Sooner or later, it will be applied layer on layer, like charges on increasing balance.

Then there is also the, like u guys said, input and output tax. Do u know input taxes cannot be claimed? Input taxes will be like, lets say we rent a unit of shophouse for our business activity. Rental, from the owner point of view, will charge service tax. Lets say purchase of business equipments like kitchen stuffs and so on, everything now is subject to 4%. And sadly, we cannot roll the ball to consumers for this 4% because it is not for resale purpose. So, we will impose this 4 on the goods we produce as cost and charge it to end users or the next layer's group.

Remember, GST is not only output tax, but input tax as well. When input gets affected, is will indirectly affect output. Thus, at every layer's input, when it cannot be translated to the layer, it will become an indirect cost added onto output. In the end, don't u guys think it's layer by layer thingy? Do you guys think buying and selling is that easy as Supplier A sells 100 to supplier B and charge 4%?? Hello, how about the boat and so on. Said on MoF website that only essential daily goods not subjected to the GST. But if input cannot be passed onto the next layer, it will become an indirect cost on the selling price of output.