The latest news on Honda's return to Formula 1 just reminded me of the new rule the FIA announced in 2010.

That the 2.4L V8s are to be replaced with 1.6L V6 turbocharged engines. I think its great. I am familiar with older compact V6 technology thanks to my old Eunos 1.8V6..lelelele.

Anyway, that's not why I am sharing this, what I find most interesting is that while F1 goes in smaller engine direction, we are already seeing a shift in development of new cars where smaller engines will are making headways.

Ford has the Ecoboost 3 cylinder (1.0 in Fiesta and Ecosport SUV) and 4 cylinders small engines (1.5 in Mondeo and 1.6 in the Kuga) in some of their cars. BMW is soon to release a 3 cylinder B38 1.5L engine for the 1 series.

Volkswagen group did a number with their 1.4 TFSI engines a while back. Peugeot has a 3 cylinder 1.0L and 1.2L engines for the 208 (which we may not see it here).

So far it's just big boys for now but expect to see smaller ones follow suit as well. One day, maybe Proton also.

But what I dont understand is that some of us a quick to shoot down smaller engine technology. I've been reading through some post here in the F&F and more often than not I find a large number of adverse opinions concerning reliability/durability and power. I am actually for one, is looking forward to see how smaller engines can perform through applications in larger vehicles, the Ford Mondeo 1.5 for example. the plus point for me, cheaper road tax and the efficiency promise. Sometimes I think there are too many of use spoilt by T & H reliability that we are scared of new things.

Maybe if T & H started this earlier, we would accept it differently..

I guess with F1 going with the smaller engine route will be good start to see how this will work.

This post has been edited by cokeaddict: May 16 2013, 07:43 PM

T&H where got reliability nowadays. It's just the PERCEPTION of reliability. Overpriced crap cars with little features, sucky drive and average reliability. Hey, remember, Toyota has killed people with their high-end LEXUS with brakes which won't work.

This post has been edited by Matrix: May 16 2013, 07:46 PM

The Mondeo will also get the 1.0. Renault has a 120 hp 0.9 that is set to reach Malaysia in 2014 in the Clio.

To a certain degree the fears of new engines is not unfounded, the first 1.4 TSI with 170 hp has a bad reputation for a good reason.

We simply don't know how reliable the new engines will be. That being said I think Toyota and Honda are overrated these days.

small engine have to endure more stress compared to much larger engine with equivalent hp/torque

unlike couple decades ago when manufacture can boast on how reliable their cars are i.e merc masterpiece, manufacture these days are only build their cars to last not more than 10 years or less because by this time the car will prolly on scrap yard anyway due to the regulation on most developed country

hence the concern on the engine reliability

Future of automobiles focus on using small engines assisted by new technology & turbocharger/supercharger would generate enough power equivalent to large V6 and V8 engines.

1.6L Inline4 GDi with dual valve timing + VGT turbocharger could generate output/torque of 2.4L engine. Whereas 2.0L with same thing could generate strength of 3.0L to 3.5L. BMW, Ford, Audi, Pug/Citroen, even Koreans have started this concept. Japanese have yet to follow except Mazda seems willing to take the first move while MMC they are like giving up on producing own cars but instead focus on selling engines & tech to Koreans and Americans.

world's oil reserve is dwindling...well...this is the sign for those who doesnt believe

Mazda is trying to achieve better fuel consumption through upsizing though.

It's not upsizing. Mazda used to come up with 2.0L V6, 2.5L V6, 3.0L V6 with main focus on performance. Then in 2000's, they changed to FC but retain good handling and now they turned to technology focus on FC, performance & handling and for first time ever, biggest car in segment. The engine sizes still small today, 2.0L & 2.5L GDi and soon to come is the 1.6L GDi. V6 engines limited to larger cars like CX9 while Mazda 6 for US, no longer using V6 3.7L. They are looking forward to get turbo on the 2.0L.

from the 60's to the end of 80's F1 series already has the option to use 1.5L turbo engine

Small engines are good enough if got good FI systems to boost. Boost is the replacement for displacement.

Hm ok. What I meant was their engines are still around 2, 2.5 liter when their competitors move to 1.4, 1.6, maybe 1.8... or even 1.0.

@boonwuilow: F1 engines aren't exactly known for reliability.

Small engines with more power entails increase in efficiency. That's the direction to go, not building bigger engines. Most ICE are nudging 40% only. There's still a good 50% + to be harnessed. Put money on that

This post has been edited by GoldenHawk: May 17 2013, 11:11 AM

Where's the "Love it" button when u need one?

I remember, in the 80's it was all about reliability. Then came the 90's it was all about performance. After that, we started moving into efficiency and I guess at this stage is where, a lot of changes were made in vehicle engineering.

We used to get reliability thanks to car makers who often tend to over-engineer certain models in their stable to beat competitors. In the case of Mercedes it was the W124 which I still consider till today as a bullet proof car (hell...it's bombed with a canon and could still crank!), BMW did a number on Mercedes with their E39 5 series.

I guess at some point some bean counter dude must have realised that making reliable cars are hurting their wallets... no one is coming in for part replacements so lets put a cap on reliability..

Frankly speaking, I am not sure how the small engines would fair myself but I know the auto makers and engineers put a lot of time into research and development and even test these powertrains under real life simulations.

To be honest, years back I did have some fun with a 3 cylinder turbocharged engine in my Kancil. had many trips up and down Genting and Cameron plus numerous highway trips. Frankly, never had any problems with the car nor the engine in the 5 years I had it.

IMO, engines and gearbox usually shows signs by the 7th year...but of course, depends on your mileage also. My Savvy clocked only 50k+ in 6 years...LOL.

Wear and tear is inevitable but if we practise preventive maintenance...change the necessary parts when it is due..I think the engine will last for a very long time.

A generation of us played around with older cars which means we had to study the car and the engines to be sure of what to expect. And due to the fact that these were older cars, tere were heaps of resources available for reference and remedies as well.

I guess new technology scares people because there is a lack of resources in terms of usage as it is still new. Maybe there is merit for people to doubt it then.

It's true...new techs and cars...frankly all unproven. Nobody knows what problem can occur...especially nowadays cars have so many electronics.....sure more problems then those old cars which is mostly mechanical. Electronic breaks down pretty easily..

Which is why some people only buy cars after they have been out in the market for 2 years or so...let some other white rats test it first!!! LOL.

wah... 1.6 v6 turbo... can't imagine how the noise looks like, high pitch exhaust/engine sound + continuous waste-gate sound

As for sound...


Supercharged V16 with 1.5 liter. 12000-14000 rpm. And the best sound in a car... EVER. Only thing that might get close is the LF-A.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: May 17 2013, 06:08 PM

Ford's 1.0L Ecoboost won the 2012 International Engine of the Year.

There must be something good about it and I am sure the technology must have been proven in testings.

It'll take a while for new tech to be accepted and like Matrix said, we have to wait and see. I too have doubts - yes it may work for smaller cars but how would it perform in larger cars?

In the case of the Mondeo with a 1.5L ecoboost, even if it generates enough torque to pull the car's weight, how would it perfom at high cruising speeds? Wait and see lorr...

This post has been edited by scaramanga: May 17 2013, 06:52 PM

1.5 is more than enough. I drove the massive Galaxy with a 1.6 liter diesel and it was perfectly fine (only 115 hp... not suitable for racing, but as a daily driver it's not an issue). I'd be more worried about the 1.0 EcoBoost in the Mondeo. (Yes, they'll already announced it...).