Hi All, **anxiously seeking advice

Following is my experience.

Property: Subsale, Leasehold, non-bumi, Puchong (Kinrara)

I’ve paid 10% deposit (including agent fees), signed the S&P. Seller is a Bumi and I’m a Chinese. The land search shows that it is not a Bumi-Lot and in Fact the first home owner of this property is an Indian. (Indian sell to Malay, now Malay sell to me). *so, I think that it should has no problem to transfer to title to me, it might just take a longer time. ***correct me if im wrong.

However, until last week only I got a call from my lawyer mention that, the seller has not been paying installment nearly 1 year plus and the property already went to the stage of Second Hearing before obtain the Order For Sale from the land office. If no action taken, the bank will put a date for Auction. Now, I have to go to the Land Office Hearing with the seller and try to ask them put on hold/KIV the case and issue me consent in order for me to apply consent from the land office.

This issue has been anxiously bothering me since last week. Following are few of my questions and hope that some expect can provide some insights.

1. Can a Bumi sell a property to a Non-Bumi (Property is a Non-Bumi Lot), if yes, How long does it takes? Many people say can just the matter of time.

2. The seller’s bank officer (recovery department) demand for payment (the 10%) only they will issue letter of consent to me to apply with land office. Apparently the seller doesn’t have any money. My 10% deposit is with my lawyer and if using this 10% to pay the bank, and in the end the title cannot be transfer, I will mati sekali gus without getting back a cent. What can be done?

3. Abort the purchase and lose up on agent fees, legal fees, loan doc fees, valuation report, (RM10k ++)

***After all the risk will be rely on the transfer of title can it be done? Any Bumi sold property to Non-Bumi before? (on NON BUMI LOT)

THANK YOU.

Leasehold ah...

goodluck....

1. Can a Bumi sell a property to a Non-Bumi (Property is a Non-Bumi Lot), if yes, How long does it takes? Many people say can just the matter of time.

Answer: Not 100%. Subject to land office approval. Normally it will take about 3 months to know the result.

2. The seller’s bank officer (recovery department) demand for payment (the 10%) only they will issue letter of consent to me to apply with land office. Apparently the seller doesn’t have any money. My 10% deposit is with my lawyer and if using this 10% to pay the bank, and in the end the title cannot be transfer, I will mati sekali gus without getting back a cent. What can be done?

Answer: Negotiate with them. Make the payment conditional upon the approval is granted. I think sure negotiable cause they no need to look for new buyer and can get their money faster.

3. Abort the purchase and lose up on agent fees, legal fees, loan doc fees, valuation report, (RM10k ++)

Answer: no choice lor. even you choose to continue but approval is not granted at the end of the day, you will lose up the money also. Either lose now or later.

so conclusion, check the property first before signing snp? check all before pay all those fee?

1. Can a Bumi sell a property to a Non-Bumi (Property is a Non-Bumi Lot), if yes, How long does it takes? Many people say can just the matter of time.

- Ur land search shows its not a bumi lot (no sekatan kepentingan right?) so the issue is not about bumi lot coz it isn't, it is just that a Malay person bought it doesnt make it a bumi lot..

2. The seller’s bank officer (recovery department) demand for payment (the 10%) only they will issue letter of consent to me to apply with land office. Apparently the seller doesn’t have any money. My 10% deposit is with my lawyer and if using this 10% to pay the bank, and in the end the title cannot be transfer, I will mati sekali gus without getting back a cent. What can be done?
- This one really depends on how your lawyer can handle it for you..like I said its not a bumi lot issue anymore , more like ur vendor did not pay up his installments..

3. Abort the purchase and lose up on agent fees, legal fees, loan doc fees, valuation report, (RM10k ++)
- Need to be clear if its bumi lot case or vendor payment issues..yes there is a risk..

all the best!

Thanks dude.

1. Under sekatan kepentingan only mention: tanah ini tidak boleh dijual, dipajak, digadai atau dipindahmilik dengan apa cara sekalipin melainkan dengan kebenaran Pihak Berkuasa Negeri.

3. Apparently vendor din pay his installment and the whole thing jam here. Any further advice?

Just to share my case. I also bought a house from Malay last year and prior to that, lawyer had conducted the land search and it is not Malay reserve land nor bumi lot. However, since this is leasehold so have to get consent from state land office.

1st submission rejected after 2 months waiting and reason is from Bumi to non bumi. What we understand from land office is when they see Malay name in title, they will "automatically" categories it as Bumi lot. Subsequent we agreed to appeal and just got the positive result last month as seller stated in the letter he needs to money due to old age and for pension purpose.

It tooks about 4.5months from 1st submission and need extra effort to check with lawyer and land office.

Having said that, it is still a chance to get the consent but need to wait longer time.

Based on your case, I will suggest you not to proceed in view of the property is under process of auction.

Good luck 2 you man

looks like it is just saying its a leasehold property - leasehold can be transferred once got consent from land office

U need to check if the property is up for auction or not..get a good conveyancing lawyer to help it out..
U can continue to pursue this purchase but then more issues might come up..looks like the seller is having financial issues (u also need to check if he has been paying his house utilities, maintenance fees if condo, quit rent, etc on time or not) , these might be problems later...

Good learning for me as a newbie in property investment.

At least some good feedback. Thanks dude. Btw, the land office application you submit as standard procedures or you let some 'expect' helping in the process?
The property is not up for auction yet. =)

Property is not up for auction yet, still in the hearing stage. I'm going together with the vendor for his hearing.
Landed property. Yea, he has not been paying any quit rent perhaps.

Just to also share my experience with a restricted freehold title, I paid the earnest deposit and the land lawyer did a land search:

1. Sekatan-sekatan kepentingan: same as yours.
2. Non bumi-lot
3. Bumi owner

I decided not to proceed and after many months we finally settled the issue and my earnest money is returned. It's actually depend on your preference, I decided not to go ahead because of the restriction on the title despite it being freehold, as it will require consent from state authorities and in future if you need to sell it might be a stumbling block for potential future buyers. From what I heard from many lawyers it is still possible but it will take some time for the consent to be given, the bumi owner must provide a valid reason as per what our brother brian mention above.

The lesson learnt is, do a title search first before proceed to sign SnP.

This post has been edited by pekoejazzy: May 13 2013, 05:34 PM

all the best, theock!!
looks like you really like that house..

Thanks for the sharing bro. Do you mind to share on how you got back your earnest deposits and if I'd signed the offer letter from my financier, there are valuation report cost and cancellation fees involved, what happen on ur side? all these fees you paid?

**if there's an option to solve this these money (except the my lawyer legal fee) I would love to abort mission.

It's actually quite a good buy, and the owner needs money also, intended to help him out or else his house will go auction and he left with nothing with kids staying with him.

once a wise man say: 'never buy leasehold from bumi' to me...guess can shout-out to all lowyat forumer...

I know what you mean.
Well, hopefully the auction will get him a good price.
If he missed payment for only 1 year, the damage should not be much - banks can be brutal.
What the forumers say here is quite thru. The sekatan probably needs approval from the MB, or somewhere at that level and could take some time.

Correct.

I did not proceed with the signing of SnP. Therefore it was much easier to abort, my earnest deposit was just 2% and we solved the problem amicably with the owner without any extra cost incurred.

For case after SnP, you may need to discuss with your lawyer. For the offer letter from bank, The lucky thing was I did not sign anything as I made sure the outcome from title search was fine for me first, which was not the case.

If your purchase price is higher than what the seller owe the bank, i think bank should not have problem in selling the property. I feel like the bank officer is new?

Yes, it can be transferred from Bumi to Non Bumi. But you must hire a good lawyer when submitting to land office.

Make sure you state that the seller in need of urgent money.[U]

Ask seller to submit a letter to land office saying he needs money urgently

If lawyer is stupid and not successful after first submission, then appeal another time.

It just takes longer than non bumi sell to non bumi.


Put this condition in your S & P,

if bank auction the unit or cannot transfer to your name, then you have the right to get back the 10% deposit.

As long as it is in S&P, then no need to worry.

You can also pay more than 10% (eg. 30%) to lawyer to cover up the outstanding 1 year loan and you pay the rest upon successful transfer of name.

Ask lawyer to pay to the bank on seller behalf.

That should prevent the bank from auctioning the house while you wait for consent to transfer.

This post has been edited by jalsrix: May 13 2013, 10:03 PM

Actually is the seller need to submit the application. Actually I think for your case still have good chances to get the consent as the seller really in a deep shit to sell the house and he can use this strong reason by providing bank letter saying that he is in deep financial difficulty n need to sell off the property to pay the debt. Just tht very time consuming.

As for my case, we go through a proper way.

I see. I tot u went through cause u mention after a few months. I guess this is not my case. I'll see what can I negotiate for. Thanks man. Appreciate the effort in helping

I guess it's maybe in the last stage edi. So they demand for some money to hold.

Thanks for the insight bro. I think can discuss with lawyer to add in the clauses into the spa.

On seller submit a letter to land office. Do u mean that my lawyer will submit a letter for consent and the seller submit another letter to write on his case in need of money?

It took a very very long time to even get back my earnest deposit (2%) even the SnP is not signed... When you deal with agent, its not easy to get back the money even you have sufficient reason to back out. It was a real nightmare for me, so really, please be very careful when committing for something even if its just signing a booking form.

hi, can i buy a freehold non-bumi lot from a malay?
will it be easy to transfer the name?

thanks

Yes u can buy freehold non bumi lot from Malay a lot more easy since it is freehold so it does not require state consent and can be done within 3+1 month.
I assume u are Malaysian citizen n not foreigner

Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes, I am Malaysian and my dad is worried that the name transfer will be a problem since he is a Malay, even if the unit is non-bumi lot. They say freehold, we do not need any approval from land office, right?

Thanks for the reply

i think it is hardly to avoid as about 50% houses in kv is leasehold...

leasehold transfer from bumi to nonbumi is doable. just need a little more time

omg so ngum dhum...

http://bumilot.blogspot.com/

http://bumilot.blogspot.com/

So long nobody talk about this topic.
Currently happen again in Pahang state.

Land title: non bumi
Sekatan: yes...as usual a an approval needed from pentabir tanah. (MB)
Current owner : Malay
Buyer: Chinese

As info i received....all same kind of application totally ignored. Meaning it just leave it there. He did not reject n in the mean time he not approve also.

So what is this....a revenge of BN loss in Federal .