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> HR nonsense: Jobs requiring references..., Despite positively biased.

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deodorant
post Apr 23 2013, 08:39 AM

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I've worked in 5 different countries in the last 8 years in big MNC's, and although I've put down references, none of them have ever been contacted by HR or by the hiring manager or anybody from the company.

So I dunno what you are whining about.
fletcherwind
post Apr 23 2013, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 07:21 PM)
I don't really understand employers.

Every job application must be furnished with 2 references (friends, relatives, past employers, etc).
Failing to do so would risk total rejection (at least in my experience) despite whatever the qualification and/or past working experiences (that seems to be the case, as if having references is more important than having the right qualification/experience).
And yet, given the 2 references, positively biased feedback will always be in place, such as the reference praising and having good words about the job applicant.
So what exactly is the difference between having 2 references and having zero reference, because at the end of the day, the employer will still either get no feedback or positively biased feedback (it's not that the reference will say bad things about the job applicant)?
And despite having references, many job applicants still do not work long-term or even have attitude problems.
So why are employers still requiring job applicants to give 2 references as if they are the big deal?

In my case, I have been kind of self-employed for several years and extremely rarely socialize.
And recently I feel like getting a job and get reminded that I need 2 references.
God knows I am not a criminal and I have sufficient academic qualification to back up my application.
At the same time I have some working experiences before this and I am a fast learner and a highly independent person (after completing required training I can go completely solo or teamwork, as deem necessary).
My last employment was several years ago, so there is no way I can refer to my past employer as reference.
And I feel disappointed that employers keep asking for me to give references whenever I apply for a job.
Not that I don't want to, but for someone that don't socialize much and also being too honest, what reference can I give (I don't want to resort to cheating)?
I am at a breaking point.
I think if this keeps going on, I will go by crook and pay someone to be a reference instead.
If it has to be thru' dishonest means to get a decent employment, I think I should go for it.

For those who are working at HR department, or HR managers, or employer, etc, what do you suggest?
Why is having 2 references soooo extremely significantly important that without them, no academic qualification/working experience matters?
*
Getting your childhood friend to help or Uni friends will do. I don't think they will want you to get your ex employer to write you a ref letter given that you have left them for so many years.

Also, if you can't get anyone, including any friends to write you a ref letter, that reflects pretty badly on you. They will probably doubt your ability to socialize at all. Of course, if they want to hire a trader to sit in front of the desk with minimal interaction with any living thing, maybe it's not important.

So, in short, just get a friend who knows you (even remotely) to write for you if you have no better choices. Uncles or aunties work too.... prefably those with senior positions in some other companies.
SUSDorky
post Apr 23 2013, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(fletcherwind @ Apr 23 2013, 09:20 AM)
Getting your childhood friend to help or Uni friends will do. I don't think they will want you to get your ex employer to write you a ref letter given that you have left them for so many years.

Also, if you can't get anyone, including any friends to write you a ref letter, that reflects pretty badly on you. They will probably doubt your ability to socialize at all. Of course, if they want to hire a trader to sit in front of the desk with minimal interaction with any living thing, maybe it's not important.

So, in short, just get a friend who knows you (even remotely) to write for you if you have no better choices. Uncles or aunties work too.... prefably those with senior positions in some other companies.
*
I was thinking about this too, using relatives, although I feel inappropriate (by right should be ex-employer).
So I guess I will just find some relatives to be reference.


SUSDorky
post Apr 23 2013, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(deodorant @ Apr 23 2013, 08:39 AM)
I've worked in 5 different countries in the last 8 years in big MNC's, and although I've put down references, none of them have ever been contacted by HR or by the hiring manager or anybody from the company.

So I dunno what you are whining about.
*
"None of them" was not part of my experience.
Last time I applied at a bank and the bank sent a letter to one of my reference asking how to describe me as a person and my reference shown me the letter asking me how I would like to answer to them.
So I ended up writing the letter in response to the bank instead of my reference.

Please don't give me bullshit by saying no MNC companies ever contacted your reference.
Give a call to your reference and ask if they ever contacted by the HR.
If ALL OF THEM say no, then you have great luck in being a hired hand.
EnergyAnalyst
post Apr 23 2013, 09:54 AM

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Let's be honest. Asking for reference is pretty standard. Who you dare to give as reference shows at least ---are you only able in saying you are good , think you are good or are someone willing to testify you are good. Whether credible source or not will depends on what HR think of your references . You will also be surprised how many people who is your quoted reference will give VERY honest opinion of theirs on you.

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Apr 23 2013, 10:02 AM
gennee
post Apr 23 2013, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 23 2013, 09:48 AM)
I was thinking about this too, using relatives, although I feel inappropriate (by right should be ex-employer).
So I guess I will just find some relatives to be reference.
*
referee does not have your your former employer. it can be your friends, relatives, someone who really know you well.

as you mentioned, your last employment was several years ago and 2 reference is needed, just put your ex-boss and say, your bestie, or really close ex-colleague.

the reason why hr ask for reference is because they want to judge what sort of person you are - first impression.

i personally think, you dont have to sweat so much about it smile.gif
pakdamek
post Apr 23 2013, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 11:42 PM)
Okay then, tell me how to contact the boss/manager who doesn't know me and always busy with other things.
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deodorant
post Apr 23 2013, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 23 2013, 09:51 AM)
Give a call to your reference and ask if they ever contacted by the HR.
If ALL OF THEM say no, then you have great luck in being a hired hand.

That's exactly what I did. The people I put as references are people very close to me who I know would have my back. But each time I changed jobs I asked them did HR contact them and each time the answer was no. You may say Ok I'm lucky that my particular companies the HR don't care much about references, but my point is that if I can get a few jobs without my references being referred to then there's no reason why eventually you can't either.
gennee
post Apr 23 2013, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(deodorant @ Apr 23 2013, 08:39 AM)
I've worked in 5 different countries in the last 8 years in big MNC's, and although I've put down references, none of them have ever been contacted by HR or by the hiring manager or anybody from the company.

So I dunno what you are whining about.
*
they do. in fact, HR does other way of checking as well, depending on your position. if hr feels the reference you provided to them may give them a bias opinion, (or for some reason), they'll get opinion from somewhere else.

hr is like a small time PI for a company.
dreamer101
post Apr 28 2013, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 23 2013, 09:51 AM)
"None of them" was not part of my experience.
Last time I applied at a bank and the bank sent a letter to one of my reference asking how to describe me as a person and my reference shown me the letter asking me how I would like to answer to them.
So I ended up writing the letter in response to the bank instead of my reference.

Please don't give me bullshit by saying no MNC companies ever contacted your reference.
Give a call to your reference and ask if they ever contacted by the HR.
If ALL OF THEM say no, then you have great luck in being a hired hand.
*
Dorky,

1) Why do you ask someone to be your reference but DO NOT work out the detail ahead of time as to what you want your reference to say about you??

2) Why you do not keep your reference in the loop as to what jobs you are applying now??

Dreamer
SUSDorky
post Apr 28 2013, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Apr 28 2013, 11:35 PM)
Dorky,

1) Why do you ask someone to be your reference but DO NOT work out the detail ahead of time as to what you want your reference to say about you??

2) Why you do not keep your reference in the loop as to what jobs you are applying now??

Dreamer
*
One of my reference doesn't know English so well, so I ended up doing the writing.

"Why you do not keep your reference in the loop as to what jobs you are applying now??"
I don't know what you mean.
vey99
post Apr 28 2013, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 28 2013, 11:39 PM)
One of my reference doesn't know English so well, so I ended up doing the writing.

"Why you do not keep your reference in the loop as to what jobs you are applying now??"
I don't know what you mean.
*
It means, if you nominate someone as a referee, let the referee know of your activities that may require him to take action.
SUSDorky
post Apr 29 2013, 12:03 AM

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Aisey, man. This reference thing is really an unnecessary burden to me.
Have to find 2 new reference every time I find a new job (cannot keep using the same 2 reference lah, unless they are very close friends that don't mind giving the favor all the time).
Then have to update them some more of the type of jobs I am applying and what I am doing recently.
At the end, the HR dept gets the reference, and still risk employing people with attitude problem, etc.

Can I use dreamer101 as reference ah?
Dreamer101 can describe me as someone who is knowledgeable and outspoken, along with good English skills.
brows.gif

This post has been edited by Dorky: Apr 29 2013, 12:04 AM
dreamer101
post Apr 29 2013, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 29 2013, 12:03 AM)
Aisey, man. This reference thing is really an unnecessary burden to me.
Have to find 2 new reference every time I find a new job (cannot keep using the same 2 reference lah, unless they are very close friends that don't mind giving the favor all the time).
Then have to update them some more of the type of jobs I am applying and what I am doing recently.
At the end, the HR dept gets the reference, and still risk employing people with attitude problem, etc.

Can I use dreamer101 as reference ah?
Dreamer101 can describe me as someone who is knowledgeable and outspoken, along with good English skills.
brows.gif
*
Dorky,

If you CANNOT find 2 persons that are willing to be your reference ALL THE TIME, you do not have any REAL CLOSE FRIENDS. Everyone else can find and keep 2 persons as their permanent reference. Why can't you??

<<Can I use dreamer101 as reference ah?>>

I do not know you. And, I give reference to very few people that I know.

Dreamer
SUSDorky
post Apr 29 2013, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Apr 29 2013, 12:08 AM)
Dorky,

If you CANNOT find 2 persons that are willing to be your reference ALL THE TIME, you do not have any REAL CLOSE FRIENDS.  Everyone else can find and keep 2 persons as their permanent reference.  Why can't you??

<<Can I use dreamer101 as reference ah?>>

I do not know you.  And, I give reference to very few people that I know.

Dreamer
*
Don't worry. I was just kidding.
I have friends, but I don't socialize as much as as average person would, that's my main problem.
That doesn't make me an incompetent person, nor an incompetent employee.
SUSDorky
post Apr 29 2013, 12:26 AM

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Anyway, the main topic of this thread is the hassle and unreliability of having reference, and still HR dept put much emphasis on it.

I can give ah pig ah dog (not-so-close relatives) as reference but what's the point?
dreamer101
post Apr 29 2013, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 29 2013, 12:23 AM)
Don't worry. I was just kidding.
I have friends, but I don't socialize as much as as average person would, that's my main problem.
That doesn't make me an incompetent person, nor an incompetent employee.
*
Dorky,

I do not socialize much either. But, I definitely have more than a few people that I can count on for help and reference.

Dreamer
SUSDorky
post Apr 29 2013, 12:32 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Apr 29 2013, 12:27 AM)
Dorky,

I do not socialize much either.  But, I definitely have more than a few people that I can count on for help and reference.

Dreamer
*
So the point is still having reference is the way to go, right?

That's why I hate this and the reason for this thread.
That's okay. I know how the stupid society works.
If the society is smart and intelligent, we would be full of people like Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison.
SUSDorky
post Apr 29 2013, 12:35 AM

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A truly stupid idea of having reference and yet doesn't accept parents as reference is truly stupid beyond logic.
A parent would give positively biased response.
A non-parent reference would also give positively biased response.
It is like asking how tall are you and if you know your height, you will pass, and if not you will be rejected.
Seriously, height? (no, that's just made up, but equally as stupid as asking for reference)
SUSDorky
post Apr 29 2013, 12:37 AM

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Yes, maybe I am a loser for having no reference.
But think deep about my argument.
Maybe for a person with a nick like "Dorky" sounds stupid and not to be taken seriously his argument, then you can imagine someone that is your close friend or family member that is making the same argument as I and think deep about it and see if my argument is making sense.


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