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> HR nonsense: Jobs requiring references..., Despite positively biased.

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SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 07:21 PM, updated 13y ago

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I don't really understand employers.

Every job application must be furnished with 2 references (friends, relatives, past employers, etc).
Failing to do so would risk total rejection (at least in my experience) despite whatever the qualification and/or past working experiences (that seems to be the case, as if having references is more important than having the right qualification/experience).
And yet, given the 2 references, positively biased feedback will always be in place, such as the reference praising and having good words about the job applicant.
So what exactly is the difference between having 2 references and having zero reference, because at the end of the day, the employer will still either get no feedback or positively biased feedback (it's not that the reference will say bad things about the job applicant)?
And despite having references, many job applicants still do not work long-term or even have attitude problems.
So why are employers still requiring job applicants to give 2 references as if they are the big deal?

In my case, I have been kind of self-employed for several years and extremely rarely socialize.
And recently I feel like getting a job and get reminded that I need 2 references.
God knows I am not a criminal and I have sufficient academic qualification to back up my application.
At the same time I have some working experiences before this and I am a fast learner and a highly independent person (after completing required training I can go completely solo or teamwork, as deem necessary).
My last employment was several years ago, so there is no way I can refer to my past employer as reference.
And I feel disappointed that employers keep asking for me to give references whenever I apply for a job.
Not that I don't want to, but for someone that don't socialize much and also being too honest, what reference can I give (I don't want to resort to cheating)?
I am at a breaking point.
I think if this keeps going on, I will go by crook and pay someone to be a reference instead.
If it has to be thru' dishonest means to get a decent employment, I think I should go for it.

For those who are working at HR department, or HR managers, or employer, etc, what do you suggest?
Why is having 2 references soooo extremely significantly important that without them, no academic qualification/working experience matters?
yan7
post Apr 22 2013, 07:36 PM

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credibility, trustworthy, want to understand u more
SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 07:55 PM

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Trying to judge a person's credibility, trustworthiness, etc is not by way of having references rightly in my opinion, or else there would be no staff turnover.
But there is still staff turnover, staff stealing from the cash counter, staff working few months and then quit, etc.
I don't think having references can solve such problem as credibility, trustworthiness, etc.
SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 08:00 PM

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For a person like me seriously considering a career is totally problematic and an unnecessarily hassle with such obstacle as having references.

I find passing CFA exams far easier than that.
vey99
post Apr 22 2013, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 07:21 PM)
Why is having 2 references soooo extremely significantly important that without them, no academic qualification/working experience matters?
*
There are many who don't ask for references, or if no references its no big deal.

Just so happens you apply to those who embed them into their hiring process and make references compulsory.




SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 08:12 PM

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QUOTE(vey99 @ Apr 22 2013, 08:01 PM)
There are many who don't ask for references, or if no references its no big deal.

Just so happens you apply to those who embed them into their hiring process and make references compulsory.
*
Yes, I know, but that would apply only to some small private sdn. bhd. companies.
Many private companies still require references.
Big public listed companies all require references.
The only time I remember a reference is not needed is if you're lucky that the top manager is interviewing you (not some HR hired hands) and he liked you so much he totally offered you the job right on the spot.
That happened to me once and I was too dumb f*** not to accept.
vey99
post Apr 22 2013, 08:48 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 08:12 PM)
Yes, I know, but that would apply only to some small private sdn. bhd. companies.
Many private companies still require references.
Big public listed companies all require references.
The only time I remember a reference is not needed is if you're lucky that the top manager is interviewing you (not some HR hired hands) and he liked you so much he totally offered you the job right on the spot.
That happened to me once and I was too dumb f*** not to accept.
*
well if youre good enough, then this little formality in big companies should not really bother you at all, right?
dreamer101
post Apr 22 2013, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 07:21 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Dorky,

<<In my case, I have been kind of self-employed for several years >>

What is THE PROBLEM??

You can use your customers as reference.

Dreamer
SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(vey99 @ Apr 22 2013, 08:48 PM)
well if youre good enough, then this little formality in big companies should not really bother you at all, right?
*
Problem is, I have better compatibility with the boss/top manager than with the HR employee/interviewer.
The HR employee/interviewer is the main gatekeeper/obstacle.
Not that I can request to be interviewed by the boss/top manager.
SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Apr 22 2013, 08:55 PM)
Dorky,

<<In my case, I have been kind of self-employed for several years >>

What is THE PROBLEM??

You can use your customers as reference.

Dreamer
*
I am self-employed trading the stock market using my own account - no customer involved (I am both the customer and the boss).
vey99
post Apr 22 2013, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 09:22 PM)
Problem is, I have better compatibility with the boss/top manager than with the HR employee/interviewer.
The HR employee/interviewer is the main gatekeeper/obstacle.
Not that I can request to be interviewed by the boss/top manager.
*
Since we are on the topic with regards to big(ger) companies, I wonder why there would be interview where only HR are present. Unless you are applying for a HR position, the related department's hiring manager should be there to evaluate your job match.

Also, if you have the credentials, I don't see why you would need references. It may be part of the interview script/steps for the hirer, but if they are interested enough in you, that would not matter.


SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 09:40 PM

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QUOTE(vey99 @ Apr 22 2013, 09:32 PM)
Since we are on the topic with regards to big(ger) companies, I wonder why there would be interview where only HR are present. Unless you are applying for a HR position, the related department's hiring manager should be there to evaluate your job match.

Also, if you have the credentials, I don't see why you would need references. It may be part of the interview script/steps for the hirer, but if they are interested enough in you, that would not matter.
*
I really don't know.
Yeah, I guess you're right about the dept.'s head that do the interviewing.
And yes, that would lead to higher success rate than if interviewed by the staff.
As long as it is the dept.'s head/manager that does the interviewing, I guess the success rate would be much higher, probably wouldn't stress so much on the reference.
The staff doing the interviewing would follow the protocol and insist on the references and they are the one that will collect all the data from the interviewing from all the job applicants and then relay to the head.
If I fail to give the reference, then may lead to rejection by the staff.
The reference always gives me headache, as if I am some potential criminal or something.
dreamer101
post Apr 22 2013, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 09:22 PM)
Problem is, I have better compatibility with the boss/top manager than with the HR employee/interviewer.
The HR employee/interviewer is the main gatekeeper/obstacle.
Not that I can request to be interviewed by the boss/top manager.
*
Dorky,

Who ask you to apply jobs through HR?? If you can contact the boss / hiring manager directly, you can bypass all those HR BS.

Dreamer
SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Apr 22 2013, 10:33 PM)
Dorky,

Who ask you to apply jobs through HR??  If you can contact the boss / hiring manager directly, you can bypass all those HR BS.

Dreamer
*
I don't have such a privilege.
I am just an average job seeker.
dreamer101
post Apr 22 2013, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 10:54 PM)
I don't have such a privilege.
I am just an average job seeker.
*
Dorky,

If you CHOOSE to be average, don't WHINE!!!

<<I don't have such a privilege.>>

It is NOT a privilege. It is NOT something that is given to you. It is something that you have to work hard to make it happen. It takes a lot of EFFORTS. And, if you have time and energy to WHINE, you have the time and energy to make it happen..

It is YOUR CHOICE...

Dreamer
SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Apr 22 2013, 11:02 PM)
Dorky,

If you CHOOSE to be average, don't WHINE!!!

<<I don't have such a privilege.>>

It is NOT a privilege. It is NOT something that is given to you.  It is something that you have to work hard to make it happen.  It takes a lot of EFFORTS.  And, if you have time and energy to WHINE, you have the time and energy to make it happen..

It is YOUR CHOICE...

Dreamer
*
Okay then, tell me how to contact the boss/manager who doesn't know me and always busy with other things.
SUSDorky
post Apr 22 2013, 11:46 PM

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You know, you really make it sound so easy to get employed, as if you are some hiring manager or something, where anyone can freely contact you for business/employment.

Do you know any hiring secret that I and everyone else don't already know of?
ellokawan
post Apr 23 2013, 12:05 AM

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Dorky may I know which job field are you actively applying to? Most of the jobs that I applied to previously as a fresh graduate did not request for references.
dreamer101
post Apr 23 2013, 12:31 AM

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QUOTE(Dorky @ Apr 22 2013, 11:46 PM)
You know, you really make it sound so easy to get employed, as if you are some hiring manager or something, where anyone can freely contact you for business/employment.

Do you know any hiring secret that I and everyone else don't already know of?
*
Dorky,

Easy -> no. Does it improves your chances with MORE EFFORTS?? Yes.

<<tell me how to contact the boss/manager who doesn't know me and always busy with other things.>>

How do you research a stock??

It is THE SAME here.

Where do you want to work??

What field do you want to work in??

Which companies are hiring??

Who do you know that might know someone in those companies??

Who can introduce you to those people??

Why do they want to talk to you??

What can you offer to those hiring manager??

You KNOW the questions. You know the answers that you need to research on. The ONLY QUESTION is are you willing to put in the EFFORT or WHINE about HR??

I have 10K+ posts in lowyat. If you want more tips, do a search in J&C forum.

Dreamer
zalmerox
post Apr 23 2013, 05:34 AM

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//So why are employers still requiring job applicants to give 2 references as if they are the big deal?//

If you can't even get 2 people to say nice things about you.
That my dear, is just plain sad.

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