Disclaimer:

All the information below is based on user’s feedback in overclock.net and may not be accurate at all. I will not be responsible on any outcome that is caused by this compilation as it ONLY acts as researched information I have gathered from various sources online. The suggested tubing that is plasticizer free may end up plasticizering your watercooling loop and I will not be responsible on that outcome.

As for today “company A” might be producing the best tubing with no problems, but as we all know most of the tubing is made by batches by mixing certain ingredients. Tomorrow the ingredients might change causing the tubing quality to drop & giving you problems. So please be aware of the date this information is published as every product that is made has its own batch on when it was made.

Also please be aware that we suspect the main cause of plasticizer is the tubing plastic leaching caused loop temperature but we can’t/ haven’t prove this yet. The suspected cause of this problem could be totally wrong. There is also some evidence suggesting killcoil speeds up tubing clouding and there is also another claim being made by another user saying biocide speeds up the tubing clouding. As mention previously, all this could be the possible cause but its not 100% confirmed.

I will leave the information here for you guys to make your own decision and also to educate what is “plasticizer” all about. I have no intention to promote any brand of tubing or company. My advice is to get a tubing that won’t plasticizer so that you can use it with dyes/coolant and your system will still look good. In the end of the day watercooling is mostly about the sexy aesthetic looks of it and this will also save your time in maintenance since you don’t need to keep replacing your tubing every month for it to look good. Do take note that there is cheap tubings available out there, you can also buy that and replace it every month if that is a cheaper option for you. The choice is yours, whatever floats your boat.

Solid tubing (copper) or acrylic tubing will not have such problems, so if you don’t want to come across any plasticizer issues, you might want to choose that path.

PS: I am sorry if there is any grammar errors or the post is difficult to understand. If anyone wishes to do some grammar editing feel free to edit it in a word file & PM me. I am busy with assignments and stuff, ain't nobody got time for grammar checking

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 05:25 PM

1) What is all this fuss about plasticizer with all these watercooling tubing these days?
Plasticizers (UK = plasticisers) or dispersants are additives that increase the plasticity or fluidity of a material. Phthalate-based plasticizers are used in situations where good resistance to water and oils is required. Some common phthalate plasticizers are. Bis(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate (DEHP), used in construction materials and medical devices


2) What is DEHP?
First off the EU has been pushing to ban "DEHP" (since 2011) in medical equipment for the last few years and finally manufacturers are now taking up the proposals. The ban if it goes through will be enforced within the next few years so if manufactures don't move over they could find them facing some severe penalties if and only if the proposals go through.

DEHP is highly lipophilic (fat soluble). When used in PVC plastic, DEHP is loosely chemically bonded to the plastic and readily leaches into blood or other lipid-containing solutions in contact with the plastic. In water cooling terms "DEHP" is what has been causing Gumming up of water cooling blocks for years and people have been wrongly blaming the coolants because of this. When "DEHP" reaches temps of around 38c and above the leaching process is exasperated in our findings and this is when problems start to occur. Also the uses of some biocides also do not help and cause the "DEHP" to leach at a faster rate.

Some sources of information for you:
DEHP - the penis shrinking chemical ->http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...a-does-not.aspx
Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate
DEHP Information centre - http://www.dehp-facts.com/RA


3) Why should you buy high quality tubing then?
There are many forms of tubing out there and "DEHP" is in a lot of them. Tubing that is "DEHP Free" is not a cheap as tubing that contains "DEHP". However would you rather spend a few pounds, euros or dollars more on something that is going to help keep your system clean and gum free? The choice is yours.


4) What nonsense, I been using cheap tubing since day 1 & had no such issues or complains whatsoever?
The reason why some people do not have issue and some do is all down to the temperature of the liquid inside your system. The hotter your water is the more apparent the problem becomes. E,g If running a 2 x 120mm rad on a system that has a GPU and CPU block then the risk of "DEHP" leaching is higher than is running the same system on a 3 x 120mm rad with the same fan speeds and though put.

Do take note of your room ambient temperature too as it can affect your loop temperature. Running a watercooling system in an air-con room will cause the liquid in your system to have a lower temperature compare to running without air-con. Malaysia ambient temperature during a hot sunny day can reach up to 34’C or even higher!

“We have been doing some testing on plasticizer build up for a while trying to develop something that helps reduce the rate at which it leaches with some success. You cannot stop it entirely however you can slow it down.

What we have found is that is you liquids are around the PH of 8.5 to 9 Plasticizer seems to leach very quickly into the system. Now un treated Di water / Ultra Pure water is around at this level were as at 6.5 to 8 which is the middle of the road its slows down the process.
one thing the remember the thinner the tubing the less plasticizer is there and the less the effect will happen. The thicker the tubing the more of it is present and the more chance it will happen. (not trying to teach ppl to such eggs).”

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:39 PM

5) Okay, I understand but how do I know my tubing is having plasticizer issue or not?
That is simple, does your tubing looks cloudy than before? Drain your loop and let the tubing to dry. Remove 1 of your tubing & cut it in half. If you can see white powder stuff then that is a sign of plasticizer. You will be able to easily remove that stuff with your fingers or nails, just scrub it out.

Please take note that plasticizer is a whole different issue than corrosion & algae, they are NOT the same! People sometimes mistaken with tubing yellowing with plasticizer, please take note that tubing yellowing is a norm for “all” tubings and it happens after a long period of time whereas plasticizer can happen overnight if your loop temps are too high!

Plasticizer = white nasty powder that coats your tubing & your loop
Corrosion = chemical reaction with two different metals damaging your components
Algae = green nasty stuff, basically micro-organasim living in your loop. Use biocide to prevent this.
Tubing yellowing = common issue overtime, a possible reason is because tubing absorbs water & light.
Distilled water turning green = something is wrong, when you flush your radiator with vinegar, the liquid will turn to greenish colour.

“The green corrosion is called patina, it is basically tarnish that occurs on the surface of copper/bronze and similar materials when the metal is exposed to various chemicals or acids and in turn oxidation takes place.”

Cut your tubing in half:




Scrub it out & it should look something like this:



This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:39 PM

6) Okay, so what? It just clouds the tubing right so in the end of the day my system will look ugly right? That’s all?
Well sadly no. It does not only clouds the tubing, overtime it can accumulate & gunk certain parts of your system as well, your radiator, reservoir and even worst your waterblocks. While it doesn’t necessarily affect your loop temperature, it will affect your flowrate. Just imagine this, your waterblock acts as a filter with many tiny channels, when plasticizer issue becomes serious, it will start accumulating in your waterblock. With sufficient gunk accumulate at your waterblock, this can clog your waterblock channels and cause drop in flowrate. As martin posted his findings, running your loop less than 1GPM can affect your loop cooling capabilities.

Take note though, here we are talking about serious plasticizer issue that been leaching for quite sometime. The usual plasticizer lining issue that user encounter are usually very thin therefore chances of it gunking up your waterblocks or radiator is very slim. The common issue you will see is it will affect your tubing only with some whitish film in the inner surface of your tubing.

Although biocide has no direct impact to plasticizer issues according to mayhems but he mention that killcoil helps tubing to cloud faster. He confirms this by himself and badomen who is primochill liquid tester. We have yet to see prove & tests regarding this issue, hopefully someone can post some testing regarding this issue because there are a lot of claims by end user that they been running their loop with killcoil since day1 in distilled water & had no such problems or whatsoever. According to mayhems, the culprit for this is most probably because the silver ions somehow gets sucked into the tubing speeding up the clouding process but they are not 100% sure about this. Its something they noticed while conducting tests.

It’s a common misconception that dye causes gunk in your loop. This is not true according to mayhems regarding his dyes. Dye’s stains your stuff alright, that’s for sure and this can also stain that white stuff produced by plasticizer. When this accumulates in the waterblock, it looks like sediments from the dye but it’s not. It makes more sense that the dye have actually stained the “nasty white stuff” and it ended up in the waterblock thus users thinking the problem lies within the dye themselves.



Gunk clogging your waterblock = reduces flowrate:


White nasty stuff suspending in the coolant:


It even ends up in your fittings:



Effects of plasticizer to your loop
Before:



After:



Using mayhems pastel will not solve your problem, as the problem lies within the tubing itself & not the coolant.
Before:



After:



Notice how the coolant colour didn’t change much? This is because the inner part of the tubing is already coated with white nasty stuff but haven’t spread yet to the reservoir, running it for a LONG period of time might spread to the reservoir but it can be easily cleaned.

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:39 PM

8) So you made it sound like DEHP tubing is bad & Non-DEHP is the way to go. Any other advantages & disadvantages that I should know of?
Other than Non-DEHP tubing is costly, the other disadvantage of this type of tubing is their flexibility. Most of the Non-DEHP tubing that we came across doesn’t bend as well as other tubings. So this means if you have a tight loop in your system, it will be a challenge for you to get the bend without kinking the tubing. Having kinks in your tubing is something you should avoid at all cost! This is another whole issue, maybe we will talking about this next time but in order to solve this problem if you insist on use the tubing, it is to get angle rotary depending on the bend radius you need.

Of course getting rotary will then cost you extra when you already spent a lot on quality tubing but I guess this is how the world have always been huh? There is always a give & take. Using DEHP tubing will be cheap, some of them are so cheap that you can replace it every time it starts to turn cloudy. This is another factor that you might want to consider. You will need to go through all that hassle to drain your loop, remove, cut new tubings etc but it might cost you less than getting expensive tubing.

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:40 PM

7) Testing

By mayhems
The full details on the testing is available in the link provided below, I will just summarize the results that we have currently without going in depth on the various test conditions. I would strongly advise you to check out the link as there is interesting findings & results.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing

Tygon R3603





Primochill Primoflex PRO LRT:


Note: Avoid getting this tubing, go for the newer revision version instead which is renamed as primoflex advance LRT. This is due to the fact that the earlier batch in 2012 had no problems but the newer batch started showing signs of plasticizers from so many users. We are glad primochill saw the problem and took some action on it and came with the newer revision, hopefully this batch will be taken out of the shelf.

No further updates from mayhems as these results will be affecting companies from more progress than doing any good:
“We have had to take the information private due to the controversy surrounding this subject. The information we have gathered from our testing will be passed onto the people who need to know. We would rather not create a fuss over something like this in a public form. Sorry”.


It’s understandable because if you look at the other point of view, these tubing’s are produced by batches. Today’s ingredients could be different from tomorrows, let’s say company A decided to stop using DEHP in their tubing today. This could solve the plasticizer issue for their tubing but because of the test data published by mayhems, everyone might have avoided buying their tubing. In the end we wouldn’t know if the company did solved their issue or improved it since nobody wants to buy it anymore. Although mayhems stopped publishing test results, he did advise us to get either these 3 tubing as of 16 march 2013. Primochill Primoflex Advance LRT, Durelene or Tygon plasticizer free (Tygon E-1000).

I also personally asked him how does Clear flex 60, XSPC premium, thermochill & Masterkleer performs as I could only find this type of tubing in my country (Malaysia) and this is the reply I got:
“Clear Flex is cheap and does the trick. However it does cloud quickly and does release plasticizer over time. However it’s "cheap". Hence you have no issue replacing yearly.
Thermochill / XSPC (they are both the same company) .. i had there tubing go crazy on me (lots of plastersizer).
Masterklear have six different types of tubing. I gave trying to figure out which ones which with them. Some works some doest trying to know which is the best is a head ace.”

“We haven't tested the new primochill however we are testing the tygon E1000 and Durelene. Both have passed our testing with flying colors however there is still the issue of yellowing over time. This seems to be the norm with "all" tubing though.
Durelene is stiffer tubing and E1000 is much softer.
As for testing we've taken all our results privet and passed the info onto relevant companies. The reason for this is so that they can fix there issues instead of users just jumping ship and us causing a mass panic. This would be unfair on all manufacturers. I feel we as a company need to act in this responsible manner.”

“UPDATE : PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Working, Tygon E1000 Working. "DEHP" free tubing is recommended for use with Mayhems pastel coolants.”

That’s all the information that I could find from mayhems, so let’s carry on with testing done by other users.

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:40 PM

Feedback from Martin

You guys have more experience with tubing than I have, but I can share the tubing I've used and give you a quick 2c clouding report:

Tygon 3603 - Have had clouding problems, particularly when used with dyes/glycols. Like the durometer, but hated the clouding, typically wanted to replace it after 3 months of use.

Duralene (Saint Gobain) from SWC - Not quite as flexible as the Tygon 3603, but good enough, very low cost and I've run this in water systems for very long periods of time without any clouding issues. This stuff get's my vote for best bang for the buck tubing that doesn't cloud much.

Feser Tube UV colored - I've used blue and green in this in the larger 1/2" x 3/4" size also for extended periods of time in water/PT nuke systems for 2 years without any problems at all. The smaller thinner stuff didn't have clouding issues, but it did get rather stiff compared to the larger size stuff that remained good even after years of use. Only issue I've had is the dye from one tube can transfer onto other tubes when it's very fresh, but it's good stuff...really like it other than the cost.

Home Depot PVC - Total crap, clouds up almost instantly and way too stiff to use, it can get you by in a pinch when you are out of tubing, but this stuff is not at all fun to use.

XSPC UV colored tube - I've used a little bit of this and also didn't have any clouding problems, but it was a bit stiff in durometer for my liking.

That's all I've used and while I have had clouding issues, I've never seen anything to the extent in these threads where a solid white film has formed. Mine has always been more of a translucent clouding issue and seem to be associated with using coolants other than distilled water/PTnuke type solutions. I'm no chemist, but there's all sorts of possibilities between the tubing and many of the coolants out there considering the number of chemicals present and mixed. Never tried Primochill tubing although I've heard good things about it's flexibility.

Hope that helps..
Martin

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:41 PM

Feedback from WW

Just a thought. As an engineer who has worked in the plastics business I can tell you that most plastic tubing contains plasticizer of varing amounts and properties depending on the desired end use. There are several plastics on the market which don't use plasticizers but I don't know how suitable they would be for water cooling. One of these, which is made in a food grade is called PEBAX. It is already used in toothbrushes and other applications needing flexibility. It might be worth seeing if it is extruded into tubing.

Plasticizers is nothing special...it's just a solvent that makes the polymer more flexible and easy to process. What may be happening is the materials may be of lower quality causing the plasticizer to volatilize prematurely leaving the hose less flexible and more prone to cracking. UV radiation will also degrade polymers by attacking the chemical bonds which provide stiffness.

While not universally true I have noticed some products sourced from mainland China are not of the same quality as those produced elsewhere. Quality control tends to be spotty in Chinese industry with lower grade materials sometimes being substituted.

WW

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:42 PM

Tests & findings done by skyn3t

Hello Guys here is my Feedback to "Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery". After a lot reading, pictures and seeing how people are suffering about Plasticizer and Cloud white film inside the tubing, I have put together all my stuff that I have in hands for you guys.

Tygon R-3603 Before any water in the loop day 1, Tygon R-3603 its very clear tubing but compared with Durelene Tygon is kind off yellowish color:



Tygon R-3603 after 4 Months in the loop with Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye. About 3 weeks ago I had drained my loop, changed the Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye and with Pure Distilled Water. As you can see the white film inside the tubing is pure bad:



At the top - Tygon R-3603 New Tubing added on 6/13/2012. At the bottom - Tygon R-3603 after 4 months with Distilled water and Mayhems Red Dye:




Koolance Res Crystal Clear since Day 1. Still looks clear and shiny even after the clouded tubing with Distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye after 4 months nothing found in my blocks, rad and res:




Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain First bath with Distilled warm water to clean the dust inside and ready to receive the final run. Compared with Tygon R-3603 the flexibility is not that much in real world.In my first experience with Durelene was very good, even its natural clear color is very bright compared with Tygon R-3603, Tygon R 3603 and it is kind of yellowish color.

It does looks sharp:


Here is the package i received today in the mail a Big Box with 27" of Durelene Clear tubing I already had cut all the tubing for my RiG i do have less tubing inside this box. It does look very clear no yellowish like Tygon R-3603:




Here is the comparison chart tubing. Tubing in order
1 - Durelene
2 - Tygon R-3603 ( Virgin )
3 - Tygon R-3603 after 4 months with Distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye



Mayhems Red Dye - won't crystalize inside the Loop once is mixed it won't separate from water
I had a half gallon distilled water with Mayhems Red Dye seal for 4 months sit in the same shelf collection dust. The color never faded no residues in the bottom found. Half gallon was cut in half to make sure it was clear and no cloud stuff inside i had no kill coil inside the gallon and it was Red rich clean distilled water.


Black Hawk Down Running New Clear Durelene Tubing Distilled water + kill coil:



By tomorrow 6/15/2012 i will have 3 container One with Tap Water, Pure Distilled Water and Contaminated water distilled water from my old loop with tree peace's of tubing inside on each container + kill coil. I like to see how long they can cloud and film. each day in the morning i will going to shake each container I'm going to leave it by my window this way it can warm a bit in simulation of warm water in the loop. i just need to find 3 peace of nickel plate to drop inside of each container.

1- container Tap water - Contaminated Tygon tubing , clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing
2 - container Distilled Water - clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye
3 - container Distilled Water - clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing + kill coil only.


This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 04:45 PM

Plasticizer Problems Update.

As you guys know I'm running Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain + Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coilfor 3 weeks and 6 days ( 27 Days ) and it looks the same since Day One. not signs of Plasticize or Cloud including the Reservoir i have been running my 3570K 4.5Mhz and my GTX 670 FTW @ 1200MHz 24/7. Heat is not the issue as far as i know in my recent test's. I know i had doe some Plasticizer testing with Tygon R-3603 and Durelene in Glass Container but some how all those test when very different in what I have now both my System are running Durelene Tubing the Plasticizer Test Bench had MayHems Red Dye and still the same no Plasticizer or Cloud whatsoever. I'm very happy with my result test's.

Just to you guys know this time i have a more high quality photos compared with my last result so the pictures is much more clear look and don't pay attention in some light reflection in tubes it make it looks Blue o even a Bit Cloud But it's NOT. When water inside the tubing and some bends it's Magnify the letter's, you guys know what I'm talk about.







Here is the tubing since ???? and before removed and cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.



Left tubing Durelene with plasticizer raze inside
Right New Durelene tubing




New tubing - Used tubing after had been cleaned with cotton rag and wood stick , Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze


Durelene with Distilled water. Left to right

New tubing
New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze




same order, but how those tubing looks better ?



but here you can see it better but i changed the order left to right

Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
New tubing
New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.



Over here you can see the plasticizer/haze much better but when its wet you almost cannot see it only if you put a new or a cleaned tubing side by side. Now is time to know how long Durelene toke to get like this. My tubing was changed on 7/31/12 Post #1154 http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plastic...0#post_17827918
running Distilled Water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White.




PS : keep in mind my rig was running Distilled water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White, Durelene has prove the durability. even running under premix and die, the plasticizer/haze is not noticeable whem the tubing is wet. like I said above only side by side with new tubing.

Now is BHD wil only run Distilled water with Mayhems Biocide. for the next final test in very heave load.

Thanks for all you guys support and let's keep this thread clean objective with this problems

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 05:00 PM

Tests done by systemlord

I received my 2 foot long Primochill Advanced LRT Tubing (clear) today, I will leave a piece under the hot tap water all night plus soak another piece is distilled water indefinitely. I'll report by end of day today, let the abuse begin.

Updated
Here are pictures of my Primochill's new Advanced LRT, the piece on the left was put in a coffie cup while under HOT tap water for 12 hours, can you tell which of the two clear pieces spent 12 hours in distilled water? I think it's safe to say that this new tubing is more resilient than any tubing before it if my memory serves correct, 12 hours under scalding hot tap water!


Something unexpected has happened, I just looked at the piece of tubing I put through hell has for some reason lost a bit of the clouding it had earlier today! Could it be because the tubing absorbed the hot water and is now dryer now? I'm sold on this tubing, buying red as soon as possible!


This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 05:21 PM

Tests done by crazymofo:

Before anybody say anything, I would like to point this out. The testing method that I am using is highly inaccurate! I cannot control the variables that affects the testing procedure nor can I control the water temperatures. Unless you are kind enough to donate/borrow me some proper equipment, thermometer, heater to keep the temps at a constant temps I wont be able to do a proper test.

Now thats been said, I still try my best to give a non bias test with all the tubings. Also please take note that whatever results is shown in my test may not be the same in real life! Therefore please do not take the tests for granted.

Testing Methods:

- Used a coffee flask because it keeps heat very well therefore reduces the amount of time is needed to cool down the temps.
- I only have that thermometer and it can measure up to 44'C only.
- Because I am limited to the temps range, I decided to do two temperature test only. First test is at above 90'C & second test is at 44'C.







=======================================================================================================

Durelene Tubing

Temps estimate above 90'C & tubing left in water for 12hours:

Top: Tubing after 12hours in 90'C water
Bottom: Brand new tubing

*As you can see tubing changed, some hazing is going on. At first I thought maybe its normal since temps was way to high above 90'C, most WC loop barely hits 80'C plus.

Left: Tubing after 12hours in 90'C water
Right: Brand new tubing

*This test is just to show that hazing is visible even if the tubing is filled with water.


*Its hard to see the difference in white background therefore here is some pics on black background


Temps estimate around 44'C & tubing left in water for 12hours:

Left: Tubing exposed to 90'C
Middle: Brand new
Right: Tubing @ 44'C for 12hours

*So I thought maybe tubing goes crazy at such high temps, maybe it might perform well under normal temps. After testing it @ 44'C, results seems the same. Although hazing is less compare to the first test, its still visible. The difference between both is very little to notice.


Temps @ 44'C + 2drops mayhems biocide & tubing was left in distilled for 12hours:


*Reason for biocide is to prove that the PH is not affecting the hazing problem. Plus adding biocide I believe will neutralizer the water PH, thus eliminating 1 of the possible variable.


* Just a PH test on the previous test water without the biocide. Seems like my tap water was around PH6


*Tubing when its wet, yes I know when its wet the hazing seems a little less compared to dry but its still visible. Funny thing is I didn't notice this difference in the first test. Perhaps coz the temps were too high that made the tubing hazed badly? I dont know, need proper equipment & time to test why this is happening lol.

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Apr 4 2013, 09:10 PM

continue from previous post



*When its dried, similar results with the 2nd test.



*This is two show the clarity of the tubing, even though hazing is apparent...we can still see through it. Not sure if this can affect the coolant colour or not though...

***************************************************************************************************************

And now the suprising part!!


*left is the tubing I finished doing test on the water PH, the longer tubing is brand new. The two other tubing is actually tubing from previous test that I did 2days earlier. As you can see the tubing becomes clear like new once again without any cleaning or anything! I just left it on my table and suddenly when I checked it its like brand new. I just left it in my room table under a fan...


*I have two theory for this I think...

1) The tubing absorbed water and turned milky as it retains water in the tubing plastic material.
2) The tubing hazes at warm temps but becomes clear back when its cooled down.

Theory #1 might be possible, since I submerge the whole tubing in water therefore outer layer & inner layer is in contact with water. Maybe the outer layer wasn't designed to be waterproof therefore water gets absorbed in the tiny pigments on the tubing outer layer? This would explain why some users used it in their real WC rig and had no problems with it (i.e clear as new), but I check closely seems like the whole tubing material changes colour...no specific inner/outer lining that hazes. I also tried scrubbing it with few sharp tools and there wasn't any effect. If it was plasticizer I could at least remove some powder substance by scrubbing but this is not the case.

Theory #2: Another possible reason is the tubing temps, therefore I would like to do another test on the tubing. I will let it haze in warm water and once its done I will add into cold water cooling down the tubing. If there is any difference then temps could be the reason.

I will also mix it in my WC loop to see how it performs under real situation.



*retesting the tubing that turned from cloudy to clear in high temps water. Turned cloudy as expected.


*Decided to throw in a cup of ice water to cool the tubing down. Perhaps high temps caused the tubing to haze?


* Apparently not


* Just to show you that its the tubing material that hazes and no thin lining of plasticizer forming inside the tubing.


* Clear vs hazed


Conclusion: Durelene did not plasticizer in my test. It hazes though, I would not consider hazing to be the same as plasticizer because to my understanding plasticizer = creamy cheese being formed in the tubing walls. I am not so sure myself either, I guess I will need to do more test on other tubing that is famous for plasticizer to be certain on identifying plasticizer & hazing.

I cannot gurantee durelene will not plasticizer, but based on my findings it did not. Please take note that I did the test for 12hours only therefore running it longer in your loop might give different result. Also please take note that although I report hazing in my tests, I still hear very good feedback regarding this tubing considering the price for it is very cheap. Many people that used it in their rig claim their tubing is still clear like new after installing a month or so. I will definitely add a piece of durelene tubing in my rig once its completed & will update this post on how it performed in real life setup.

This is all for now, stay tuned for tests on primoflex advance lrt & masterkleer

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Apr 4 2013, 09:24 PM

Conclusion

So I went through the whole thread and came to a conclusion and I have also summarized most of the useful info. There are few info that I decided to leave out due to the insufficient details of testing done or some evidence suggesting that particular user is the only person who is not suffering from plasticizer whereas almost all the others are reporting otherwise.

· Thread started with primoflex lrt pro having serious plasticizer issue, leaching right after 3days of use. Turning the tubing to cheesy white colour. Plasticizer issue/tubing clouding was a common problem back then with all the other tubings but it happens overtime like after few months of usage, but primochill lrt pro was pretty serious in just few days.
· A lot of feedback from other users reporting the same problem, primochill denies the problem lies within their tubing.
· Users started looking for alternative tubing brands that wouldn’t cloud the tubing, some users including martin suggested durelene.
· Few other brands were introduced, masterkleer, clearflex, xspc & tygon but there were feedback from others that they used it in the past & it clouds as well. No proper tests/evidence was provided though to back the statement up.
· More users gave good feedback on durelene as they used it in the past & it is cheap, skyn3t started doing tests on it.
· We found that durelene will have a slight haze/cloud in its tubing when it’s in the loop(barely noticeable) but once removed and dried the difference can be seen compared to new. When it’s wet, the cloud is hard to see and many other users started using durelene tubing. Received many good feedback with slight hazing to the tubing but its not a deal breaker considering the price is cheap.
· More reports from other users recommending durelene as it performs well without any hazing after few weeks of using.
· Primochill is still working on their tubing problems, they introduced sys scrubber which is some kind of chemical to add in your loop to remove the plasticizer from the tubing. Some says it worked & some said the plasticizer lining is too thick therefore the scrubber did not work properly.
· Tygon E-1000 was recommended as it’s the only “plasticizer free” tubing available in the market but the price for it is too expensive.
· Primochill primoflex advance lrt was introduced in November which was made specifically for watercooling users and were told it have addressed all the issue the previous tubing had. Some primoflex pro lrt users where sent the new tubing as a replacement. Check performancepc website, they stated the tubing to be "DEHP Free"
· Many users started using it & reported only good things about it, so far I haven’t heard any bad feedback about it regarding plasticizer issues. Many reputable forumers including mayhems himself started recommending this tubing to others.

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 05:20 PM

And there you have it...I created a thread with all the info that I can possibly find. Those who manage to find more info or thinks there are certain things they would like to include in the thread, feel free to let me know...will make the required changes

edit: mods, if you wish to pin this thread, feel free to do so

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 30 2013, 05:24 PM

Good article.

I'm going to change my tubing because it already shows a sign of plasticizers. Just assembled my wc kit less than 1 month

great thread. i have this problem too. so, the solution for this problem is by using a good tubing right? can share how to clean part such as rad and wb when it is "infected" by this problem?

Yup, decided to share it out to everyone, but dont take all the testing info seriously because its all done by normal users so it may be inaccurate.

So far I haven't heard any other solution that can cure this problem. So yeah we are only left with using DEHP free tubing to avoid this problem.

To clean radiator is pretty much impossible because you cant open it, but what you can do is mix vinegar with water, fill & shake your reservoir for around 20-30mins & flush it out. I know vinegar is good for reservoir cleaning but I am not sure how effective it is with plasticizer problems. As for the waterblock depends on which waterblock you using, can usually disable it and clean with a toothbrush lol.


Btw just a side note, the pictures above all are for extreme serious plasticizer issues, normally plasticizer wont leach out so badly until reaching the waterblock & radiator. I still testing on durelene tubing & it changed colour at high temps but funny thing is I can't scrap it off from the inside. Its like the whole tubing clouds up...

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Mar 31 2013, 11:05 AM

Plasticizer will happen to all type of tubing right? But, it will be less obvious if we are using DEHP tubing. So, if i am using colored tubing, the problem will still happen, but i just cant see it. Correct me if i'm wrong. I am planning to buy new tubing, so this info is really important. And, this plasticizer problem is totally not related to algae?

No, it will not happen to all type of tubing. Actually this problem is very complicated, its hard to pin-point what is causing the problem as there are so many factors & variables being involved here, temperature, water PH, tubing material, light, silver ions and so many more. But based on tests we can say the variable that contributes plasticizer the most is the water temperature.

Now thats being said, based on mayhems findings he said DEHP is 1 of the cause why plasticizer happens (read post#2 for better explanation). If you want to escape form plasticizer issues then you will need to use DEHP FREE tubing, i.e they do NOT contain DEHP. So far to my knowledge there is two tubing that the manafacturer claim to be DEHP free which is primoflex advance lrt & tygon E-1000.

No its not related to algae, totally different problem. What confuses me though is tubing hazing & plasticizer, I believe this two is two different problem also based on the tests I been doing. Will post more results for better understanding what what I am trying to say. Yes you are right, 1 of the reason why many uses colour tubing so that their build will maintain that "good" look to it since the clouding will not be visible to us from the outside. It is pretty safe too since most tubing plasticizer problems is not very serious therefore you dont have to worry about waterblock/radiator gunking up but I cant guarantee you that. Just that I know few people who had this problem & just did some cleaning every 6months...nothing major...

I cannot guarantee you buying whatever tubing that was recommended will not cause plasticizer issue as I do not make them but what I can say based on many user feedback & recommendation that I been reading there is 3 tubing that performs great. Primoflex advance lrt, tygon E-1000 & durelene. But bear in mind I been doing some test on durelene that I currently have in hand, while it does not plasticizer based on the test I did but it hazes though (i.e changed colour). Best thing about it is after drying it for 1 day it become clear back!! dafuq right? I was surprised by the results hahaha.