Hi everyone!

This is what i'm planning to do:

-Pioneer DEH-80PRS
-Alpine PDX-F6
-Dynaudio Esotec System 242
-A good 400Wrms amp and 12" sub in the boot, sealed enclosure (let's just leave it at that =D)

Using the above equipment, i'm considering running the DEH-80PRS in NETWORK mode,
ditching the rear speakers,
and run the Dynaudios ACTIVE in front (e.g. Channel 1:Left Tweet; Channel2:Right Tweet; Channel3:Left Mid; Channel4:Right Mid)!


Hence my questions:

-Will 150Wrms into the tweeter be too much power?

-Do I need the impedance compensation circuit (a cap and resistor) for the TWEETER to give the highest quality sound?
(looking at the Frequency/Impedance response curves, the mids don't need them)

-is there ANY way at all to get a signal for rear speakers? (I carry passengers quite often, so a little music behind would be appreciated).

-this is anti-climatic, but any other comparable comps that you would recommend with a price point BELOW the price of the Dyns?
Nobody will be disappointed with the Dyns, but it's quite costly.....


Last but not least, i'd like comments for whoever has it running active currently, on any other possible issues to take note.

Cheers!

Alpine amplifier?
That will waste the dyns lolzz

Meaning it will kill the tweeter? Hmnn......

No you can always adjust the gain down to not kill the tweeter
But alpine amplifiers are just not good enough for the dynaudios
Those speakers are

This post has been edited by ezmeer94: Jan 13 2013, 07:38 PM

bro your concept of thinking is wrong.its not mean 150rms direct to your tweeter.150rms per channel for dynaudio is good enough ready.keep in mind that dynaudio is a power hunger speaker.when you listen at volume 20, its not going to push your tweeter at 150 rms.once you done the tuning for overall system, it would match. dynaudio character is thick..so find amps that have characters, bright and dynamic.Dynaudio is one of my favourite component in earth after morel supremo.

If you play active you no need to add any capacitor or resistor.control everything from your head unit.good luck

This post has been edited by vickyz: Jan 13 2013, 08:37 PM

Right, thanks for reminding me about that, kinda slipped my mind that after tuning, it won't drive he full 150Wrms into the tweets.

And... ...., you got me interested in the Morel Supremo....... Do you know who is the authorized dealer in Malaysia?
Or who I could contact for the price for them Supremos???

U got pm...

feed 200W rms into the dyns... it sends you into hallucinations...

Passives components are only for passive setup, active setup its all direct connections...

Never tried this, but for the rear passengers you could try tap the HU line out directly to the rears, but i think you will have to spend for another component sets for a full range sound. But trust me... front speakers are already enough even for a Hiace H4D.

and to power the Dyns or the Supremo, get a Genesis DMX at least if not Sinfoni... If your budget only allows the Alpine, then no point getting such high end speakers...

Why Alpine F4, F6 no good?
Have u heard them powering a good system tuned by a good tuner?

There's no great system using alpine amps lol
Those are digital class d amplifiers haha
Better get a good class ab or a amplifier to power good speakers
Class d are efficient and powerful but not good for sound quality

Have u heard these amps or not?
Or ur comment that they are no good for SQ is based on ur assumption that they are class d...

If it sounds good to you, then its a good amp bro
no nid to take other people opinion too heavily

tuning oso important, but first does the equipment have the freedom to tune oso one matter
so, this point oso important than mere "branding"
compare compare first lor with other model/brands, see which one more suit ur "itchy hands"

Yes I have heard them
Yes they sounded clean but not analog sounding means not natural if u know what I mean

Alpine amps doesnt suit audiophile class and not all amps sound analog.There are very limited amps which sounds very analog & all of them are 90's amps. Nowadays amps & head units are only fr simple music & nt fr those hard core analogue sound lovers. Anyone here who played hi fi 16 years bck would agree with this. Fr simple SQ just buy anything tat sounds good to u. N yes, as Ezmeer said, Alpine amps r clean & thin but not analog

This post has been edited by vickyz: Jan 14 2013, 07:34 PM

Wow, half a day away and so many useful comments!! Keep 'em commin!

Got 2 weeks left to decide, then no need ask opinion liao, just tune =D

The Amp is more or less decided (unfortunately, due to budget of course)

The speakers.... Hehe.... Suggestions anyone? Still leaning to the Dyns!

This post has been edited by BelaCHAN: Jan 14 2013, 07:43 PM

when i first started out, i am determined to have a complete and balanced setup.
the amp selection threw me off balance and alone occupies a good half of my entry level setup budget.

after discussing with all the sifu around here, it is very normal.
to give you an idea:
my entry level component set was around rm600
entry level amp was around rm2k

as sifu craziechild also commented:

Yes, and need to give credits to bro vickyz : The True Audiophile class sifu!

Gave me quite the insight of what it means and takes to be an audiophile class! Salute!

Tq bro BelaCAN fr ur praises - no sifu laa, all of learn new things each day. V share te experience with everyone who hv te same passion

Hmnn... Will seriously reconsider...

do a google search on class d amps and tripath technology. u shall understand better. dats wat it makes possible on a small footprint chasis.
on the data sheet it looks good but listening impression is another story.
then again its oso practical to have a small footprint amp if space is an issue.

No la.. I nvr meant to take this so heavily...
If you said you have heard them and concluded that it didn't sound good...
Then fair enough I respect your comments...

Imho... you're good with the amp... since u're running an active system (some say active also nt analog sounding) .

As for the Dyns, never heard them... but according to a very reputable tuner in JB who has tuned both Dyns & Morel Supremo. He said you need at least 300w for the tweeters. Not sure how true la... just for reference...

Maybe you can try get other speakers which are easier to power. 150w x4 is plenty for most speakers.

alpine f6 is a good amp, go for it
class d amp is the way to go for ice
big power yet small and lightweight (~3kg only)
a class ab amp with same power probably weight 6-7kg
we can put 4 pdx amps (like 2 pdx-f6 + 2 pdx-m12 under driver and fr passeger seat)


i believe a good amp is a good amp regardless of amp class (d/a/ab/h etc)

This post has been edited by malutapimau: Jan 15 2013, 04:18 PM

The f6 is a great amp if u power entry level speakers haha
But it's a no if u use the dynaudio 242
If u go the dynaudio 242 at least get a genesis series 3 stereo 100 of better DMX
or sinfoni haha much better

i thought sinfoni and genesis is on the same standard? both of them also is a powerful yet musical amp rite?

genesis is dynamic&clean while sinfoni is warm&soft.Genesis suit more to Dynaudio and Morel Elate/Supremo

This post has been edited by vickyz: Jan 15 2013, 06:31 PM

Yes. Why?

Choose one to suit personal preference.


Take this in a subtle way,

building a system is about balance, there is no point having a finest amp say Luxman CM60000 and a full mohawk drivers... and vice versa.
Yes to some point it might sound better than most normal setups, even more classy, but at what cost?

With the same amount, getting a mid-ranged amp, a mid-ranged drivers, a good installation could easily surpasses the setup above. but yeah, you lose in being classy though.

and for the power, numbers doesn't matter, how clean/stable it is, how does it cope to continuous hi-power burst, is what matters...
I am privileged enough to have used a lot of amps, and always have access to a lot of calibrated industrial high-accuracy measuring instruments,
I can tell you this, seriously, there are not a lot of them are actually good at it... and yet the mass market worships them...

QFT

For the power, I am really not sure how true it is, but this is what the tuner shared with me, I am just bring this out for common reference only.

For the rest, I respect your point of view. But I cannot agree with all of them.

The best measuring instrument is your own ears, and different people hear things differently. It is easy to list down all those prestige products but sadly not many can afford them.

I still recommend getting a good tuner to maximise your equipment with whatever budget you have (limited or unlimited).
Good tuners utilises speaker placement & active tuning + whatever proprietary techniques to solve/reduce problems in car environment which is limited in space.

I've heard high & mid end amplifiers like Harmotech H4, Brax X4, Ground Zero Reference 4 & 4XS, Sinfoni, Genesis Series 3, Steg K series, Mosconi AS, DLS Ultimate, Mcintosh etc etc. And YES they are definitely better than the entry level amplifiers in terms of cleanliness/stability/continuos power/linearity etc etc...
However, without good installation/tuning to maximise their full potential, they can sound worse than Audiobank/Mohawk amp powered system... And YES, I've also heard systems that sound powered by normal or shit amp...

Give more credit to tuners rather than the brand of the equipment... we should...

Just my 2cents...


This post has been edited by LoewLim: Jan 16 2013, 11:03 AM

Strongly agree

[quote=garykam,Jan 16 2013, 10:21 AM]


Strongly agree

[/quote]

Strongly agree too bro!

One cannot replace a good tuner!

I have a good tuner already. an I give him credit by not negotiating what he charges for worksmanship, as long it's within my budget =D
He deserves every penny =D

Ok, the any comments on the 250Wrms per channel Boston GT28 to power the Dyns passive? =D

IMHO, it should work out =D

The whole forum has spoken! =D

Don't think i'll be using the PDX-F6 if i'm going for the Dyns =D

But for any other, it should be ok

Already thinking that way since yesterday =D

Thanks for the feedback! appreciate it!

That's what fueled me to choose this amp in the first place!

+1 Bro

After taking in more comments, may be using another amp already, so much for compactness.... =D

Ok, the any comments on the 250Wrms per channel Boston GT28 to power the Dyns passive? =D

IMHO, it should work out =D

Numbers just doesn't work thy way la....

how about 2x pdx-m12 to power the dyns passive
2x 1200w rms plenty of headroom (+9db)

Yo those are monoblock amplifiers
Good to power subwoofers but no no for component speakers lolz
Haha nice

Bro genesis dual mono don't want?
Great for the dyns

I know, i know, numbers can't convey the quality of sound the amp produces.

But I so want the dyns..... =D

Name your price! =D

Get genesis dual mono/dual mono extreme laa
Sure great on the dynaudio

You know who sells them? Maybe I can get a quote??

A few of people sell those hehe
Dual mono around 3k
Dual mono extreme around 5k or less
Or can get sinfoni amplifiers but more expensive laa

Wow... Seriously....

I've kinda given up on running the dyns Active, but more on decision making.

when I get something, I hope I can get the best, if not second to it,
to avoid using more money than needed in the long run.

With my limited budget, I can only do it for 1 thing.

Hence, get the best amp or the best drivers (speakers) 1st? =D

Get good speakers first so get the dyns and if u really have limited budget u can get a good amp
Btw what's ur budget for amps might can recommend to u
Later can just upgrade the amps which is an easy process

Haha =D Actually after giving it some thought, getting amp first might be good also,
cause good amp can play for all speakers, but good speakers will only sing with good amps =D

But both ways also ok lah, jus need to decide.

budget was 1500, now raised to 2000, limit dy.

Anything to recommend? =D I'll consider second hand if you're letting go of anything??

2k is for amp only or component+amp?

I saw someone in garage sales selling dual mono for 1.8k
Btw a 2000 amp will not hurt the speakers
U can always upgrade later as the amp is easily removable

How bout consider my SPL digital designs amplifier? hahaha

Obviously the amp only lah, since i'm going for the Dyns =D

Model of the amp please! need to check on specs and reviews =D

SPL is the model or u mean it is for SPL setup? =D

If it's meant for SPL setup then sorry, I wouldn't be able to appreciate your amp (",)

Digital Designs C4a... Its a company with SPL heritage... hahaha...
Check out my sales thread...

u got dyns 242 current model for rm2k?
previous model had some imitstion going around. not too sure about curent model.
dyns comes with 7" mid. make sure the door panel opening can cater for its cone size. years back had a situation wherby the honda stream installed a 7" mid but the door panel opening was like 5" or so. ended up not very promising sound.
another route is to custom the door panel to accomadate it. meaning bit of cutting involved n then fibre over it.
the dyns 7" mid also has a bigger magnet. meaning the depth of the driver is more. this is not a conventional size as compared to others. so not all cars will have the depth at door panel to accomadate it. if cant fit, then custom door panel will do the job...

dats why they have another range known as 242GT. slim mount magnet.

for me, speakers makes a bigger difference than amp.

Nah, 100Wrms per channel won't feed the dyns =D

No bias ya, they seem to be really good amps, but i'll just stick to the boston GT28s for now =D

Anyone wants to offer their amps?? =D

No bro, u got me wrong.

The RM 2K is just for amps. The dyns are >3k for the esotec system 242.

And Yah, i'm very well aware that there will be some custom job involved. Question is a bit or a lot only.
My car can fit a 6.5" (6.75" actually =D) Boston S60, and with my installer, there's nothing that can't be customed =D

Thanks for the feedback and reminder!

2 votes go to getting the speakers first. Anyone else?

I've chosen to do it passive in the end, saves me a bit of hassle tuning them (though I won't fully utilize mu HU =D)

dat shd be right at dat price...go for it then.

100watter amp will be sufficient. if the amp has a low input sensitivity starting from 0.2v then its easily driven. reason being most hu do not really have high voltage pre out. they might advertised saying its 5v or 8v but its not accurate. those numbers are based on without loading.

another way to make it more amp friendly is-
ur stock passive comes with a 16-18awg inductor size for low pass mw162. since the awg is thin, resistance will be high. hence power loss.

u can alwiz upgrade to a thicker core inductor hence lower ohm. the thicker the core the better ac current can flow. hence more lower mids.. if not mistaken ur inductor valued is either 0.39mh or 0.68mh

common listening impression on dyns mw102 tweeter - slightly lack on resolution, highs n airyness feel.
u can improved by bypassing the tweeter protector on the passive at tweeter high pass. those things are horrible to the sound.

Amp price always double or triple more than speaker price. If ur speaker is cost 3k, u will need to ready 6k or more to get a proper amp to fully utilise the speaker.

for me, u can go for speaker 1st, amp can upgrade later on. Speaker does make a huge different compare to u change an amp.

for me speakers cost double or triple or even more compare to amp

i totaly terbalik pulak. But i curious, erm...example if i using the scanspeak like krayden tat 1, but my amp so so only. The sound cum out will nice mou?

i think scanspeak need really powerful amp
but your amp enuff already hahaha

Alright Bro! Will go with a thicker wire.

U have any picture lying around showing which is the resistor to bypass?

its not a resistor. its brown in color n roundish look.
btw ur 242 comes with free vdh clearline..nice.
but awg only 16

scanspeak will only need a quality rms will do. not quantity...even 50 quality rms would sound awesome..been playing scans for the last 9 years

btw kraydens drivers are do re mi..hehe
alpine f#1 tweeter + renovatio 6.5" mids(product of hifi creations)

NICE!!!!!

Dang.... ZZzzzz...... But see what my installer says =D If need be i'll go for thicker ones =D

if u need thicker core, i have vdh cs122hybrid ready stock..kaw kaw mids n low.nice

Sure bro! will keep in mind!

the exact location is at the top right. next to 10uf solen cap

i cant comment for the gt28, however i am using a gt40 and i find them ok for the price paid. been using them since late 2008/2009 ish lol

consider craziechild's earlier advise: having a balanced setup

Agree... speaker > amplifier...

I think la... I really think la... since you are getting 80prs and the price of 2ch & 4ch doesn't differ too much... It is better to get a 4ch amp run the drivers active utilise the 80prs mah...
Then hor... when you wanna upgrade in future you'll have more flexibility mah...

IMHO...
supplying 200w to passive xover >> tweeter & midbass may not be any better than
supplying 100w >> Midbass & 100w >> tweeter actively

and you will have more flexibility tweaking the crossover & slope with your 80prs...
Please consider carefully... discuss with your tuner...

EXACTLY what I was thinking 3 days ago, before most of you all shot me down. ZZZzz...................

Haha, no offence ya!

Anyway, will further discuss with my tuner.

He noted that going active is good, but will require A LOT of time and effort to get the sound and imaging right,
and may not be suitable for the casual SQ music purveyor. That's why in the end I choose to stick to passive.

But 2 more weeks to go before I drop the bomb =D So keep feeding back!

Haha sorry... I think I was suggesting that I "heard" people saying that Dyn loves power...
That is the sifu's opinion la I do not know how true because I have never heard Dyn...

You see the Dyn may LOVE additional power but doesn't mean that it NEED the amount of power to sound good.
Looking at the specs they are approx. 100w continous handling power + 90db sensitivity, which I think the F6 has enough headroom liao la.

I think la... I think only la... Maybe for a start, go with the F6 lo... then in future if you're planning to upgrade to 3 way and find the F6 not analog enough la digital sound la or whatever la...
Then switch the F6 to power midbass + woofer lo (3ch mode : 2ch 150w + 1ch 300w)... Get another kaw kaw sinfoni genesis audison la whatever la for tweeter & mid lo...

Active is definitely not easy to setup, the sifu has to be very very very patient when tuning especially 3 way...
2 way is slightly easier to tune because problem like phase shift cancellation is less (less only... not totally dun have) likely to arise...
In fact to get good sound, staging, focus... It all starts from installation - door panel soundproofing, midbass baffle, A pillar design, speaker placement etc etc...

Some people think active is not analog, some people love passive, I won't disagree with any because this is all individual preference...
You have to ask yourself what you want... discuss more with your tuner... listen more to his customer's car to have a deeper impression on what type of sound you like... Rather than guessing base on brands, numbers & figures...

Hehe... just sharing my experience la... Good luck to you...

get a good amp first... its a personal practice...

this about it... no one keeps drivers for collections, because they gets faulty even on shelves after a long time what more to say when they are installed on a harsh condition... having a good amp would finalise your installs.

changing drivers is just "plug-n-play" affair given your speaker pods are ready. but changing amps, you have to think about racks/locations/ventilation/cabling... etc etc...

if you are hardcore enough, build a metal driver holder jig and spot weld/full weld the jig to the door frame before your sound proof works...

Aiyo.. so many chefs.. so many recipes.. and you are eating it all up.

I'm a Dynaudio 240 MKII setup user. I've done it all with almost all the amps recommended here both active and passive.

And trust me, those MD102 or MD100 whatever their model is will work VERY VERY WELL with just 80W RMS. I used to use a Helix A2 (150w x 2) to power the tweeters and a PHD2200 (200w x 2) to power the mids to run active and that was fun until I had to spend a lot of money on the wiring cuz the amps were massive and had to be put in the back.

Then I swapped out the A2 with the first generation PDX amp (100w x 2) to power the tweeters and a Orion HCCA G4 for the mids (80w x 2.. severely underrated amp). This kinda sucked cuz the tweeters just sounded... wrong.

Then I swapped the amps to go for Genesis Dual Mono x 2 to power both tweeter and mids, it was good but personally I found it lacking in dynamism. Maybe it was just my speakers (being used and older)

Then I switched back to passive powered by just the A2.. bleh. So boring sound. Tried the PHD2200 and the more power made it clearer (could hear details better) but it sounded blunt.

Then I moved to custom passives modified by Audiocreations powered by just the A2 again, sounded better but I got bored with the sound very quickly. It was very flat or un-dynamic. Dunno whats the right term for it.

Finally I sold everything off except the Dyns and now I'm powering the tweeters with a tiny PHD amp that fits under my seat with just a paltry 50w x 2 and a Thailand amp "Sands" 100w x 2 for my midbass which is also tiny and fits under my seat. Sounds plenty good to me already like this.

HU all the time was the Alpine 9855. RCAs bought, used and sold are the Hisago, Transparent, Monster, Phoenix gold zeropoint (awesome this one), Audiosomething (forgot the name) and stinger. Now is Stinger for the front. Transparent for the sub. Regretted selling the PG RCA.

Speaker wires are Stinger 12ga throughout and power is a humble 4ga to the amps.

Just a note : I listen to hard hitting fast paced dance music/techno. So I don't really care about vocals and classical music sound. I've heard awesome cars with awesome sound playing Dave Koz or Kenny G and Michael Buble, but these cars 99% of the time suck at my kind of music.

Honestly - I'd just buy whatever suites your budget and tune it to make you happy. The Dyns are very dynamic buggers so power them right and they'll make you very happy.

Oh if you're interested I have a modified custom passive for sale (all Mundorf caps and resistors)

izso, i have zeropoint..lolz

first time i heard u have zeropoint hahaha

Haha, chill bro, i'm a guy who's able to take in everything, mix it all up, rinse, filter, lathe, dry, then process to give the final outcome =D

My stand will only move towards the opinions with good logic and experience, not sway about =D

And want to learn more also, so I opened the thread for everyone to comment.

Finally! A Dyn user! =D Thanks for the comment! will keep what you mentioned in mind.

Now i'm freakin itchy to get the dyns in dy.... When will my bonus be banked in!!! Haha

dish's a mess, you're totally not interested anymore eh?

btw can really buy new wipers liao since new windscreen just done installed today.
i'm still deciding between reputable brand tints or chicken brands

Actually can upgrade slowly amps can be changed and do not detriorate like drivers
So if u get a good amp then the drivers can be used at maximum potential
If get get the alpine amp also can then upgrade later
I was using a blaupunkt amp last time and sound was good until I upgraded to genesis dual mono the sound is much better

too busy doesn't feel like eating rojak..haha

chicken 1 will do....dun feel u will drive the car for another 5 years

even if i dont drive, it'll still be passed on to my sis la. and im not sure if a full sized sedan can give me the fun im having now with the current car lol. so i may still drive this old faithful around especially on short distances? LOL

will try to find some time (especially if im dropping by TPM for job in the day time lol) to chat with you. the 2 drls still sitting in my trunk
at the very least still need to get my tint done la rofl, dont feel very good having a naked windscreen.

Woi.. seriously? The purple cable? I mau if the price is right!