Last case on Gospel of John.

THE NEED OF THE DEAD-LIFE’S RESURRECTING

The case of raising Lazarus from the dead is certainly a wonderful case. Here we see the case of a man who had died, who had been buried for four days, and who had begun to stink. Nevertheless, he was resurrected. Why do the other three Gospels give us no record of this wonderful case? Although this case is marvelous, the other Gospels say nothing about it. This case of resurrection does not fit in with the purposes of the other three Gospels; it only suits the purpose of the Gospel of John. Matthew, Mark, and Luke are Gospels with purposes other than life. John is the Gospel on life. Therefore, the Holy Spirit kept this case for John. This proves that the Gospel of John is a book of life.

THE DEAD AND HIS NEED

In 11:1-4 we see the dead and his need. Lazarus was not only sick but also dead (11:14). Thus, he did not need healing but resurrecting. In the Lord’s salvation He does not merely heal the sick; He also gives life to the dead. So He remained two days until the sick one had died (11:6). The Lord does not reform people or regulate them; He regenerates people and raises them out of death. Hence, the first of the nine cases is on regeneration and the last is on resurrection, revealing that all of the different aspects of Christ as life to us, as unveiled in the other seven cases, are in the principle of regeneration and resurrection. This last case is the actual changing of death into life.

Before going into the matter of Christ raising Lazarus from the dead, we must realize that the Gospel of John reveals two things. On the positive side, it reveals that Christ came to be our life. The Son of God is the Word of God, which is the expression of God. As the expression of God, He came in the flesh to be our life. This central thought is found in every chapter throughout the entire Gospel. On the negative side, this book also shows that religion, even the Jewish religion of Judaism, is very much against Christ as life. By reading this book carefully, you will see how even the sound and genuine religion opposes Christ as life. Within the first ten chapters of this Gospel, the only opposition our Lord met came from the Jewish religion. Religion opposed Him, rejected Him, repudiated Him, and persecuted Him. Eventually, at the end of chapter ten, He was forced to desert religion. He forsook the temple, the holy city, and all the good things of the Jewish religion and came to a new standing.

In every chapter from chapter one through chapter ten we can see one point concerning religion versus Christ. In chapter one we see that religion was expecting a great leader to come. Religion looked for the so-called Messiah, Elijah, or the promised prophet. However, Christ did not come as a great leader, but as the little Lamb of God to accomplish redemption and with a little dove to produce the transformed stones for God’s building. Thus, even in the first chapter of this Gospel we find an indication that religion takes the wrong way, a way other than the way of life. There is a great discrepancy between religion and life.

In chapter two we see that religion will try to destroy life, for religion will try to destroy Jesus. But Jesus as the divine life will raise Himself out of that destruction. Life not only can withstand destruction, but can raise Himself up out of the destruction of death.

In chapter three we see that Nicodemus, a high-class man, held a religious concept of the Lord Jesus, addressing Him as rabbi and referring to Him as a teacher sent from God. All such concepts are religious.

In chapter four we see that even a poor, mean, immoral, low-class Samaritan woman held a religious concept. At a certain point in her conversation with the Lord she began to speak about the worship of God. Although the religion among the Samaritans was not orthodox, it was a religion. The Samaritans had a religious tradition and inheritance.

In chapter five we see religion’s opposition to life fully aroused. This was due to the fact that the Lord Jesus enlivened the impotent man on the Sabbath day. To the Jews, it seemed that He broke their regulations about the Sabbath. Consequently, they began to oppose Him. In fact, they began to be very much against the Lord. By this case we can see how the rules and regulations of religion are in opposition to the Lord as life to the needy. The Lord who is our life is one thing, but religion with all of its rules and regulations is another. Christ as life and religion with its regulations can never go together.

We also see something of religion in chapter six. When the people saw that Jesus had fed the multitude with five loaves and two fishes they said, “This is truly the prophet who is to come into the world” (6:14). They were about to force the Lord to be their King (6:15). That was a religious concept. The Lord Jesus withdrew from them, for He wanted to remain as the small bread, good for people’s food.

We see another religious concept in chapter seven. The people at the religious feast were discussing Jesus, but Jesus stood and cried, asking them to turn from their dry religion and come to the source of living water.

We see more of religion in chapter eight. The religious scribes and Pharisees tried to trap the Lord by asking Him, in their religious way, how to deal with an adulterous woman. But the Lord answered in the way of life, exposing their folly in holding on to their religion and silencing them with shame.

The opposition of religion to life is strengthened in chapter nine. In chapter five the Lord enlivened an impotent man on the Sabbath. In chapter nine, He gave sight to a blind man. He purposely did this on the Sabbath day. Why did not the Lord Jesus go to the blind man before or after the Sabbath day? He did it purposely to break the dead rituals of dead religion. That stirred religion’s opposition against life. The Lord purposely broke the Sabbath regulation before the eyes of the religious Jews. The eyes of the blind man received sight, but the eyes of the Pharisees received blindness due to their opposition. The Jews thought that Jesus was very much against their religion because He broke the regulations of their religion. Hence, they became very angry with the Lord and began to oppose Him. They even excommunicated the man who had been healed by the Lord (9:34). When they cast the blind man out of their synagogue, they excommunicated him from their Judaistic religion. Then the Lord took the opportunity to tell them that Judaism was nothing other than a sheepfold which keeps the sheep for awhile. Now that the pasture is ready, the sheep will be released from the fold and brought into the pasture. The Lord Jesus let them know that since they had excommunicated the blind man from their religion, a sheep was released from that fold and brought into Christ as the living pasture. At the end of chapter ten, the Lord walked out of the fold of the Jewish religion.

In the first ten chapters of this Gospel we see the fighting, the struggle, between religion and life. Eventually, the Lord deserted that religion and went outside of it. Where is He now? He is outside of religion. He has nothing to do with it. Now, in His new standing, there is no religious element. All the elements of religion have been excluded.

...

FINAL CASE SEEN IN JOHN

FRUSTRATION OF HUMAN OPINIONS

Now we come to the last case. This case is not in the Judaistic fold; it is outside of it. After the Lord went out of Jerusalem, He went to a home in Bethany of one brother and two sisters who loved Him very much. Before He came, something happened in this home. The brother, Lazarus, became seriously ill, and the sisters sent a message to the Lord, which means that they prayed to Him (11:3). There is nothing wrong with prayer. If you are in trouble, you must send a message to the Lord. At any time you can send a word to Him. You may send Him the information about any situation. But what He would do is up to Him.

Chapter eleven serves a very specific purpose: it shows us that besides the opposition of religion, human opinions are the strongest frustration to life. Throughout the foregoing chapters, the problem that life faced was with religion. As we have seen, in every chapter life was opposed by religion. However, there is no religion in chapter eleven. But there is another kind of frustration—the frustration from human opinion. What is revealed in this chapter that frustrates the resurrection power of the Lord? It is the human opinions. This chapter vividly portrays how the human opinions frustrate the Lord’s resurrection life. Once human opinions are subdued, resurrection life is manifested. This is not a matter in religion, but in the church, at the home in Bethany, which is a miniature of the church life.

In Jerusalem, you are in religion; in Bethany, you are in the local church. In Jerusalem you have religion; in the local church you have the problem of human opinions. In chapters one through ten, Christ as life is fully revealed and, at the same time, religion is exposed. Now, in chapter eleven, Christ as the resurrection life is unfolded, but, at the same time, human opinions are brought to the surface. Although there is no problem of religion in the church, there is nevertheless another kind of hindrance, the hindrance of human opinion. The Lord is the resurrection life, but He is hindered by the opinions. This chapter is filled with human opinions.

Martha and Mary considered that the Lord should have come immediately. This was their opinion. But the Lord never acts on the basis of anyone’s opinion; He always acts according to His own will. They thought that the Lord should come immediately, but the Lord purposely stayed away for two more days.

The Lord is the resurrection and the life and death is no problem to Him. It is easy for Him to swallow up death. Death may be a problem to us, but it is not a problem to Christ. He as resurrection can overcome death and swallow it up. However, when we come to applying Him as resurrection, we face the problem of human opinions.

...

Unfortunately, this is the case when you veer toward one extreme. The truth is always two-fold. We are predestinated yet we have choose to believe. Three words: fact, faith, experience.

For example, REDEMPTION

The Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29).
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (John 3:16).
He Himself is the propitiation...for those of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
Who gave Himself as a ransom for all (1 Tim. 2:6).
The Savior of all men (1 Tim. 4:10).

After reading these verses, we can see that the redemption of Jesus is for the whole world. Hence, it is possible for everyone in the world to be saved. The Lord’s redemption is an accomplished fact.

However, the Bible tells us that not everyone in the world is saved. If a man does not understand the teaching concerning “faith,” he may think that whether or not a man believes in the Lord’s vicarious death, he is saved anyway. It seems to him that since Jesus has died for the whole world, the whole world need not die anymore, and there is no need to be concerned if one believes or not. This may seem very reasonable, but actually it is very unreasonable, for this would absolve sinners of all their responsibilities. If this were the case, there would no longer be the need for believers to preach the gospel.

Although the Bible says that Christ has died for the world, it also says that those who believe will be saved. The following Scriptures testify to this:

That every one who believes... (John 3:15).
He who believes into Him...; he who does not believe... (John 3:18).
Believe on the Lord Jesus (Acts 16:31).
Through the faith of Jesus Christ to all those who believe (Rom. 3:22).
Him who is of the faith of Jesus (Rom. 3:26).
Your sins have been forgiven you because of His name (1 John 2:12).

We can quote many more Scriptures, but the above verses are sufficient to prove that a man has to believe. This means that although Christ has died for the world, the world must still apply His death and reckon it their own death. Otherwise, the death of Christ will have nothing to do with them. Although the Scripture says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,” the Bible does not stop here. Following this it says, “That every one who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life.” First Timothy 4:10 says, “The living God, who is the Savior of all men.” God sent His Son into the world to die for men. Hence, He is able to be the Savior of all men. He is the “Savior..., especially of those who believe.” These are the ones who have believed.

After believing, there must be the experience. If one believes in God’s fact, there surely must be the experience of the fact.

He who believes into Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe has been condemned already (John 3:18).
He who...believes...has eternal life (John 5:24).
Every one who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life (John 3:16).
Justified out of faith (Rom. 5:1).

Hence, when man believes that the salvation God has prepared for him is a fact, and when he applies this salvation, he is saved.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Feb 11 2014, 09:23 PM

Unfortunately no. Our dear fellow believers usually falls in either extremes (or sides) .... the Calvinistic or the other, Armininiasm (at least most of the Pentecostal / Charismatic believers). Both teachings are proper yet falls to one extreme, making it not proper. One removes all responsibility on our side. The other, puts all responsibility on our side (e.g. lose your salvation when you backslide / did not speak in tongue etc.)

Try to go through the verses listed, and ... ... be open .... Come up with a conclusion yourself. Search the scripture if you will.

FINAL CASE SEEN IN JOHN

FRUSTRATION OF HUMAN OPINIONS

I was laughing and exposed when I had saw how many opinions there were in this chapter. Surely the Lord knew that Lazarus was sick and He knew exactly how to handle the situation. However, when the news reached Him, but He was not moved by it. Sometimes it is very difficult to move the Lord. In a prayer meeting you may say, "Lord, we move Your hand," but the more you try to move His hand, the more His hand refuses to be moved. The Lord will never be moved according to your opinion. When He heard the news, His heart was hard and unmoved. He remained where He was for another two days.

The Disciples’ Opinion

In 11:8-16 we see the disciples' opinion. When the news came about Lazarus’ sickness, the Lord’s heart was not moved. The disciples must have been puzzled and perplexed. You can imagine how disappointed the disciples were. After two days, the Lord suddenly expressed the desire to see Lazarus. He said, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going that I may awaken him out of sleep” (11:11). The disciples immediately said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover” (11:12). Here we see the disciples’ human opinion. When the Lord did not want to go, they were puzzled, and when the Lord was about to go, they thought that it was not necessary to go. Once the Lord expressed His desire to go and see Lazarus, all of the disciples expressed their opinions. They told the Lord that it was dangerous to go because the Jews sought to stone Him (11:8). This is human opinion, which always contradicts the Lord’s will. However, once the Lord made up His mind that He was going to see Lazarus, no one could change it. Eventually, the disciples agreed to go, but with a martyr’s attitude fearing the Jews’ persecution, for one of them said, “Let us also go, that we may die with Him” (11:16). Many times in every local church the situation is exactly like this. There are plenty of opinions.

B. Martha’s Opinion

When the Lord came, Martha was the first one to meet Him (11:20). But before the Lord could say anything, Martha opened her mouth and gave forth another opinion: “Lord, if You were here, my brother would not have died” (11:21). She was complaining that the Lord had come too late. The Lord said to her, “Your brother shall rise again” (11:23). This means that the Lord would raise him immediately. However, Martha said, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection in the last day” (11:24). Martha expounded this word of the Lord so as to postpone the present resurrection to the last day.

What an expounding of the divine word! What devastating knowledge of fundamental teaching that frustrates people from enjoying the Lord’s present resurrection life! Then the Lord Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me, even if he should die, shall live; and every one who lives and believes in Me shall by no means die forever” (11:25-26). The Lord seemed to be telling her, “It is not a matter of time. There is no problem of time with Me. Nothing is too late, and nothing is too early. As long as I am here, everything will be all right, for I will raise up your brother.” Then the Lord asked Martha, “Do you believe this?” Martha replied, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world” (11:27). What she answered absolutely was not what the Lord asked. She was not clear about what the Lord was saying. Her old, preoccupying knowledge prevented her from understanding the Lord’s new word.

Martha is like many Christians today who have a great deal of knowledge and doctrine. Martha said, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection in the last day.” This sounds quite scriptural and correct. Then the Lord asked her if she believed that He would raise Lazarus up, and she said, “I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God.” She believed in a certain kind of doctrine that the Lord is the Christ and the Son of God. She believed in the doctrine that the Lord will raise up all of the dead saints in the last day. She had all the knowledge, but it was not the living knowledge that the Lord taught. All of her different opinions were due to the fact that she had all the knowledge. Today, many Christians have opinions because they have so many teachings. When someone talks with them about the inner life, they immediately begin to share their opinions. Too much knowledge and too many doctrines breed endless opinions.

After Martha said that she believed the Lord to be the Christ, the Son of God, she went away and called her sister Mary. Martha said, “The Teacher is here and is calling you” (11:28). However, I cannot find a word saying that the Lord had called for Mary. That was Martha’s suggestion. It was her self-assuming opinion. Again we see in Martha a person who was so full of her own opinions. She was so active in her opinion that she could never be silent. Perhaps you also love the Lord very much, but, like Martha, you cannot be silent.

FINAL CASE SEEN IN JOHN

FRUSTRATION OF HUMAN OPINIONS PT 2

Mary’s Opinion

Mary came to the Lord at Martha’s word. She reiterated what Martha first told the Lord: “Lord, if You were here, my brother would not have died” (11:32). This also is an opinion, a complaint against the Lord.

The Lord never argued; neither did He accept their opinion. They simply did not understand that as long as the Lord was present everything would be all right. They could not realize this, for they were very sorrowful and even weeping. For this reason, the Lord groaned in His spirit and was troubled (11:33). He did not groan over the death of Lazarus, but over the fact that not one of the sorrowful ones knew that He was the present resurrection, and He was troubled by this. Then the Lord asked them where they had put Lazarus. They said to Him, “Lord, come and see” (11:34). This answer was very good. That opinion was the best. When the church has a problem, do not talk so much. Simply say, “Lord, come and see.” At this juncture, the Lord wept in sympathy with their sorrow over Lazarus’s death.

The Jews’ Opinion

In 11:36-38 we see the Jews’ opinion. They thought that the Lord wept (11:35) because He loved Lazarus. But some questioned why the Lord could not have kept Lazarus from dying. Those opinions plus the Jews’ ignorance of the Lord’s ability to raise Lazarus from the dead caused the Lord to groan again.

Martha’s Opinion Again

When the Lord came to the tomb, He told them to take away the stone. Once again, Martha frustrated the Lord with her opinion. She said, “Lord, by now he smells, for it is the fourth day that he has been there” (11:39). She felt that there was no use in moving the stone. In this chapter there is nothing religious, but there are many opinions standing in the Lord’s way. Although the Lord is life to the people in the church, He meets a great number of human opinions from the people in the church. It is just like His meeting the opinions of the disciples, Martha and Mary, and their Jewish friends.

Opinions Belonging to the Tree of Knowledge vs. the Tree of Life

All opinions come out of man’s mind. So they all belong to the tree of knowledge, which is versus the tree of life. The tree of life is actually the Lord Himself for our enjoyment. When we stay with our opinions, we are kept away from the enjoyment of the Lord as our resurrection life. When our opinions are subdued, it is easy for us to enter into the full enjoyment of the Lord Himself.

FINAL CASE SEEN IN JOHN

FRUSTRATION OF HUMAN OPINIONS PT 3

We must see one point here. The point is that the Lord was able to raise up Lazarus from death. However, He could not do anything because He was continually frustrated by human opinions. He was frustrated by those opinions until the time came when they were subdued. Eventually, Martha was subdued with a certain amount of submission. The Lord has the resurrection life, the resurrection power, but it needs our cooperation. It needs our submission. What is our submission? It is simply the giving up of our opinion. You must forsake your opinion and allow the Lord to speak. When He tells us, “Move this stone,” we should simply move it. We must submit, cooperate, and coordinate with Him. We need to submit to His word, cooperate with Him, and coordinate with the resurrection power. Why did the Lord, who was able to raise the dead, not remove the stone by Himself? Because His resurrection power requires our cooperation. Once they had removed the stone, the Lord cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!” (11:41-43), and Lazarus was raised from the dead. He heard the voice of the living Lord, was quickened, and was raised from the dead. After Lazarus came out of the tomb, there was still the need for human cooperation. Lazarus’s hands and feet were bound with the burial clothes and his face was bound about with a handkerchief. Therefore Jesus said to them, “Loose him and let him go” (11:44). They had to remove the bandages from the resurrected Lazarus. They did it and the work of resurrection was completed.

We too must work by cooperating with the Lord to release others from the bondage of their bandages. When the Lord raises up people from their death in the church, we need to cooperate with Him in order to release them from their earthly bondage. By this kind of cooperation the church becomes the testimony of the Lord as life. The Lord could have moved the stone from the cave and He could have removed the bandages from Lazarus, but He did not do it. He would rather ask us to cooperate with Him. However, before we can cooperate with Him, we must first give up our opinions and act according to His will. In the church life, we must drop our opinions, submit to the Lord’s word and work, and cooperate with His resurrection power.

This is a serious lesson that everyone in the local churches must learn. Especially the Marthas and the Marys-the leading ones, the responsible ones-must learn to drop their opinions, submit themselves and their opinions to the Lord, and cooperate with Him and with His resurrection power. If in any local church the leaders drop their opinions, submitting them to the Lord’s word, and cooperate with the Lord’s resurrection power, that church will see resurrection life. This is a part of the major revelation of this chapter which is the submission of human opinions and the cooperation of the lovers of the Lord with His resurrection power. The Lord today is still waiting for an opportunity to express His resurrection power, but it is difficult for Him to obtain the submission, cooperation, and coordination.

We have to drop our opinions, submit every opinion for His consideration, and cooperate with Him. When He asks you to remove the stone, remove it. When He tells you to do a certain thing, do it. Then you will see resurrection life. You will see resurrection power. This is a part of the revelation of John 11. Most people have seen only the story of Lazarus being raised up from the dead. They have not seen the revelation in this chapter, which is that outside of religion, in the local churches, the frustration to Christ as life comes from our human opinions.

FINAL CASE SEEN IN JOHN

FRUSTRATION OF HUMAN OPINIONS PT 4

These nine cases are very meaningful because they show that the Lord as life starts with regeneration and ends with resurrection. All of these cases are signs signifying that the Lord comes to us as life in several different aspects. The experience of the Lord as our life begins with regeneration and reaches the climax with resurrection.

The Lord Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life" (11:25). Resurrection is superior to life. By itself, life can only have existence, but resurrection can withstand any kind of attack, even the attack of death. The Lord is not only life, but He is also resurrection. Death cannot hold Him because He can conquer death. Death cannot retain Him, because He is not only life-He is also resurrection. Life is the power to exist, but resurrection is the power to conquer everything that is against life. Therefore, because resurrection can defeat every attack against life, it is superior to life.

According to the Scriptures, death is a great power. When death comes upon a man, he cannot escape it. Not even atomic power can overcome death. Only the Lord Himself as resurrection can defeat death. He can deliver all of the dead persons from death because He is not only life but also resurrection. Since He is the resurrection, He can break the power of death. Even Hades is unable to confine our Lord to the tomb.

We must learn how to apply this resurrection life day by day. We must not only live by the Lord as life, but we must also conquer by the Lord as resurrection. Many times our circumstances affect us like death. But praise the Lord that all matters which contain the touch of death are a test because these matters prove whether or not the Lord is the resurrection. Nothing can confine us, for we have the Lord as our resurrection life. Regardless of the pressure or trouble we are bearing, we can stand it because we have resurrection life. According to 11:25, the Lord did not say that we will not die, but that we will prove to the whole universe that the Lord in whom we believe is the resurrection! Satan will try his best to put us permanently into death. One day, though we all may die, we will all be resurrected. Throughout the whole universe this will be the greatest victory, the victory that will testify that the Lord is the resurrection. However, even in our daily life we may have the foretaste of the ultimate victory of that resurrection. This is why the Apostle Paul said, “To know Him and the power of His resurrection” (Phil. 3:10).

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Well friend, I assume that you are a Christian(?), if not, this may be a bit solid.

Nearly all the seeds of the truths are sown in the book of Genesis. The trinity is be already seen in the first two verses of Genesis. But since you brought up Abraham, it is the most solid type of the experiences of the Trinity revealed in Genesis.

The term, "God of Abraham" shows God contacted, appeared to, and spoke to, and deal with Abraham. In His dealings with Abraham, God unveiled what kind of God He is. It was in so many dealings of God with Abraham that the details of what God the Father is were unveiled. As the Father, He is the God of glory, God of blessing, God of secret care for His elect, the God of all-sufficiency, God with His human friendship etc seen in Abraham's experiences of God.

God's work on Isaac made him a type of Christ as the son of Abraham. Matthew 1:1 says that Christ is the son of David and the son of Abraham. God promised Abraham that the whole earth would be blessed in his seed. Then Paul said in Galatians 3 that this seed of Abraham, not many seeds, is Christ (v. 16). Therefore, Isaac was a person who is a type of Christ as the son of Abraham, the one who inherits the promise and blessing God gave to Abraham (Gen. 22:17-18; Gal. 3:16, 14).

We see this in Christ:
1) As the only begotten Son of the Father—John 1:14b; 3:16a. [Isaac is Abraham's only son]
2) Given by the Father all that the Father has—Gen. 25:5; John 3:35; 13:3. [Isaac basically enjoyed all the Abraham's riches]
3) Offered to God for God's satisfaction and resurrected from the dead—Gen. 22:2-13. [Isaac was offered up]
4) Gaining the Gentile church as His counterpart through the Holy Spirit—ch. 24. [Isaac marrying Rebekah with Eliezier (a type of the Spirit)]

God's work on Jacob shows the experience of God the Spirit-how God disciplined him, dealt with his natural life, and weakened him, how God caused Christ to be formed in him through the constitution of the Holy Spirit, and how he bore the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

What is the discipline of the Holy Spirit, and what is the constitution of the Holy Spirit? The discipline and constitution of the Holy Spirit are one work; they are not two separate works. We are constituted by the discipline of the Holy Spirit. We are molded by the carving work of the Holy Spirit. When our natural life is being dealt with, the nature of Christ is being constituted into us. While Jacob was being dealt with by God, he began to bear the fruit of peace. In the midst of discipline, the fruit of peace is borne. The fruit of peace does not come after the disciplining work. While God was touching his natural life, the fruit of peace was borne. This is the principle by which God manifested Himself through Jacob. On the one hand, we have to observe the way that God carved him and weakened him. On the other hand, we have to observe the way that God wrought the nature of Christ into him through the Holy Spirit. This work makes Christ's nature his nature.

The history of God's leading in the life of Jacob can be divided into four sections. The first section describes Jacob's nature (Gen. 25—27). It began with his birth and lasted until the time he received his father's blessing by cheating. This section tells us the kind of person Jacob was. The second section describes the discipline Jacob experienced (Gen. 28—30). It began from the time he left his home and lasted until Padan-aram. During this period, he suffered trials and discipline. The third section describes the dismantling of the natural life of Jacob (Gen. 31—35). It began from the time he left his father's-in-law house in Padan-aram, journeying through Peniel, Shechem, and Bethel, until he arrived in Hebron. During this period, Jacob's natural life was being touched by God. The fourth section describes Jacob's maturity (Gen. 37—49), that is, the period of his old age. It began from the time Joseph was sold to the time Jacob died.

So, I will end this with this verse, when God answered Moses ....

In Exodus 3:15 (2nd book in the Bible), "And God also said to Moses, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial from generation to generation.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Mar 5 2014, 08:22 AM

They are equivalent.


God is Spirit (John 4:24). This speaks of the nature of God. As far as the divine essence is concerned, God, the complete Triune God, is Spirit.

Hmm ... not to go too deep.

The Spirit is God's reaching man, God’s abiding among man and in man, and God's indwelling man.

Without God as the Spirit, we cannot experience God.

God is one yet He is triune for our experience and enjoyment. Otherwise, He is just the unique God far away up in the heavens ... nothing to do with us

Wow ... you just show something mysterious about the Trinity. The fact that Holy Spirit = God, and God = Holy Spirit shows the high matter of coinherence.

The Father is in the Son and in the Spirit; the Son is in the Father and in the Spirit; and the Spirit is in the Father and in the Son. They are three, yet They are mingled together as one. This is coinherence. The Three of the Godhead not only coexist but also coinhere. Coinherence is a mutual indwelling or a mingling.

Your latter statement, "...means there are only 2 Gods in Christian i.e Jesus and God / Holy Spirit. Means, trinity concept is not trinity anymore." shows that you might not understand what the term "Trinity" means ...

Lol .... this is one of the "hammer" used by Arminisiam against Calvinism. Again, it is a matter of the two-foldness of the truth.

Do take the time to read this post: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...post&p=41638260

The above post will clarify the matter of salvation and reward. That will the key to understand all the verses related to salvation and verses that seem to infer "losing the salvation" / "salvation by works".

But to answer your question on the verses ... actually that section did not refers to believers but to the nations (v. 32).

The nations refers to all the Gentiles who remain at Christ's coming back to the earth, after He has destroyed those Gentiles who follow Antichrist at Armageddon (Rev. 16:14, 16; 19:11-15, 19-21). These remaining Gentiles will all be gathered and judged at Christ's throne of glory. This will be Christ's judgment of the living before the millennium (Acts 10:42; 2 Tim. 4:1). It differs from His judgment of the dead at the great white throne after the millennium (Rev. 20:11-15) and will be executed on the earth after His judgment of the believers at His judgment seat in the air (vv. 19-30).

After the judgment at Christ's throne of glory, the "sheep" will be transferred into the millennium to be the people living under the kingly ruling of Christ and the overcoming believers (Rev. 2:26-27; 12:5; 20:4-6) and under the priestly ministry of the saved Jews (Zech. 8:20-23). In this way the "sheep" will inherit the (coming) kingdom. In the millennium there will be three sections: (1) the earth, where the blessing of God's creation will be, as mentioned in Gen. 1:28-30; (2) the nation of Israel in Canaan, from the Nile to the Euphrates, from which the saved Jews will rule over the whole earth (Isa. 60:10-12; Zech. 14:16-18); and (3) the heavenly and spiritual section (1 Cor. 15:50-52), the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens, where the overcoming believers will enjoy the kingdom reward (5:20; 7:21). The kingdom that the "sheep" will inherit consists of the first section.

God deals with the unbelievers according to the law and with the believers according to the gospel of Christ during the age of grace. But at the end of this age, the three and a half years of the great tribulation, God will send an angel to preach a specific gospel, the eternal gospel. This is a dispensational matter. Then, after Christ has judged the believers at the judgment seat in the air, He will come with the overcomers to destroy the armies of Antichrist, save the remnant of the Jews, and set up His throne of glory in Jerusalem. Then all the living Gentiles will be gathered before Him to be judged. By the judgment seat in the air, He will clear up the situation among the believers. By descending to the Mount of Olives He will clear up the situation among the Jews. Finally, at His throne of glory He will clear up the situation among the nations. He will judge them not according to the law or according to the gospel of grace, but according to the eternal gospel, according to how they have treated His little brothers during the great tribulation.


P.S. This is not a major truth for contention ... ...so I won't fight for it if you don't agree.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Mar 5 2014, 09:15 PM

Nope I didn't say that.

When Christian uses Allah, it is a generic term for God. It is not WHICH GOD are we referring to.

BUT when we refers to God, it is the Triune God (singular) that we are referring to. According to the Bible, God is uniquely one (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:6), yet He is also the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Matt. 28:19b). This is difficult for the human mind to reconcile or explain, but this is the revelation in the Bible.

The Father, the Son, and the Spirit coexist with one another (Matt. 3:16-17; Eph. 3:14-17), and They also coinhere. To coexist means to exist together at the same time. To understand the coexistence of the three of the Divine Trinity is not difficult, but to understand how the three of the Divine Trinity coinhere is very difficult. To coinhere means that the three of the Divine Trinity exist within one another, abide in each other (John 14:10-11; 17:21). The three of the Divine Trinity from eternity past have been and still are coexisting and coinhering with one another.


The three of the Divine Trinity are distinctly three and yet one. The Father is distinct from the Son, the Son is distinct from the Spirit, and the Spirit is distinct from the Father and the Son.

Yet the Son is the Father (Isa. 9:6; John 14:9-10), and the Son is also the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17). The Son became flesh (John 1:1, 14) and was called the last Adam. This last Adam through death and resurrection became a life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b). The son given was called the Eternal Father, and after His death and resurrection He became the life-giving Spirit. Therefore, the Son is both the Father and the Spirit.

HAHA ...

You have to study first what the word Trinity means and its implication

This post has been edited by pehkay: Mar 6 2014, 12:00 PM

Well ... it is Wikipedia trying to be neutral

We can't expect anything from it.

Even among us, Christians, sadly, there seem to be a "fight" on of using the "correct" name of God, i.e. Yahweh versus Jehovah.

Yet no one will ask what is the intrinsic meaning of it.

Why does Genesis 1 not mention Jehovah or Jehovah God, but only God? The name God-Elohim-means the strong and mighty One. The name God has to do with the creatures; it refers to His relationship with the creation. But Jehovah is a name that is related to man. Genesis 2 speaks of the relationship between God and man. Therefore, Jehovah God is mentioned right away. This speaks of God's relationship with man. In Genesis 1 we do not see man. Even when the creation of man is mentioned on the sixth day, the emphasis is still on creation. This is why the name God [Elohim] is used. In Genesis 2 we see man, and so it speaks of Jehovah God. Every time the word Jehovah God is used, it denotes God having a relationship with man. Every time the word God is used, it implies His power and His relationship with the creation.

This is wonderful! That we puny human beings have a relationship with God (Jehovah / Yahweh )

FINAL CASE IN JOHN - CONCLUSION PT 1

If you consider the condition of the people in each case, you will discover that in every case they had nothing but death. Look at the man named Nicodemus. He had nothing but the water of death. Look at the Samaritan woman. Her thirst meant that she was under the threatening of death. Look at the dying son of the royal official. He was under the cruelty of death. Look at the man who was sick for thirty-eight years. What did he have? Death. Look at the multitude before they were fed by the Lord. They were hungry because they had nothing other than the water of death. Look at the thirsty religionists. The vanity with which their feast ended also spoke of death. Look at the sinful woman who was brought to the Lord by the Pharisees. She also had only the water of death. Spiritually speaking, even the blind man had only death. And Lazarus reeked of death. All the people involved in these nine cases had nothing but the water of death. According to the second chapter, the six waterpots, a type of humanity, were filled to the brim with the water of death. Likewise, every person in every case was filled with death. Death is revealed in every case.

However, the Lord came into these situations of death in order to be life in the principle of resurrection. He turned the death of each situation into life and brought life out of death.

Let us apply this principle of life in resurrection to all of the cases. Firstly, the Lord spoke with Nicodemus about regeneration. Do you know what is the principle of regeneration? Regeneration simply means that the Lord has come to be our life in resurrection. How can the Lord regenerate people or cause them to be born anew? Simply by being their life in the principle of resurrection.

In the case of the Samaritan woman, the Lord spoke with her about the satisfaction of the living water. How can a poor sinner be satisfied with the living water? Only by the principle of life in resurrection. When the Lord comes into us as life in resurrection, we shall then have the living water which satisfies us.

etc ...

Of course, it is clearly evident that the last case, the raising of Lazarus from the dead, is based upon Christ as life in the realm of resurrection. The first sign, the second sign, and now the last case reveal the intention and principle of the Gospel of John: that of life through the resurrection of the dead.

Why was it that the Lord waited for two days instead of going immediately upon receiving the news of Lazarus’ sickness? Strictly speaking, the Lord waited for two days because He would not only heal people; rather, He would enliven us. The Lord never heals according to our understanding; He heals by enlivening. Can you find the term “healing” in chapter five about the impotent man who was sick for thirty-eight years? Was that man actually sick in the eyes of the Lord? No, in the eyes of the Lord that man was dead. The Lord did not heal his sickness; He enlivened that dead man. Therefore, the principle of life through resurrection is that the Lord always enlivens the dead.

Do you think that the Lord wants to heal you? The Lord wants to enliven you. According to the old concept, healing means to reform or to improve you. But the Lord never comes to improve you or to regulate your behavior. He always comes to enliven you. The Lord’s only intention is to impart Himself to you as the enlivening life.

For this reason the Lord refused to go to Lazarus immediately to heal him of his sickness. He waited until Lazarus was thoroughly dead and buried. He waited until Lazarus’ human life had come to an absolute end. Lazarus was so completely dead that he was stinking in the tomb. It was at this time that the Lord came. He did not come before this time because He refused to come on the principle of healing. He came only on the principle of life in resurrection.

Christian?

FINAL CASE IN JOHN - CONCLUSION ...

Consider the example of a religious brother who discovers that he has a bad temper. We may say that he is sick with a bad temper. Consider also the case of a little boy who, after he is saved, discovers that he is quite naughty. He also is a sick person; he is sick with his mischievous behavior. Another believer may discover that he jokes too much and that he is sick with his joking. All of these sick people, after discovering their sickness, send the information about their sickness to the Lord. Just like Martha who said that Lazarus was sick, they also say that they are sick of a bad temper, of bad behavior, or of joking.

They want the Lord to heal them by improving their temper so that it will be a good temper, by reforming their bad behavior so that it will be a good behavior, and by adjusting their joking. The brother who wants his joking adjusted prays, "O Lord, keep my mouth!" In other words, these people are sick and are asking the Lord to heal them. But the Lord will never come to heal you. The more you pray for the healing of your temper, the worse your temper will be. The Lord will never come to heal, but He waits...waits...waits...until you are dead. He will not answer your prayer for healing, but He will wait until your sickness turns into death. He will wait until you realize that you are not only sick but that you are also dead. The Lord will wait until you tell Him that you are a hopeless case, until you give up all hope for yourself.

Do you still hope for some improvement? Are you really disappointed with yourself? I am afraid that each of you still possesses some hope for yourself. Many times you are like both Martha and Lazarus. On one hand, you are the sick Lazarus; on the other hand, you are the Martha informing the Lord. You inform the Lord about your sickness with the hope that He will come to improve your condition. But we all can testify that the Lord will never come to answer this kind of prayer. The more you seek for improvement, the more He stays away.

One day you will finally realize that you are an absolutely hopeless case. You will discover that you are a vessel containing nothing but the water of death. Everything is full of death; nothing is living. You are just one of those six waterpots full of death water. When you realize that you are absolutely in death, having nothing except the water of death within you, then the Lord will come to enliven you. When you awake to the fact that you are dead, buried, and even stinking with bad odors, the Lord will then come to enliven you. How often we try to be better and to improve ourselves! But the Lord will just wait until you stink and even spread the bad odors to others. The Lord will wait until others smell your stinking odors. Then He will come to you in the principle of life in resurrection to enliven you.

Christianity acts contrary to this principle, for it is a religion that tries to improve people, reform them, and regulate their behavior. But Christ is life and He comes to enliven people with that life. He comes to regenerate and resurrect them with Himself as life. What does it mean to improve, reform, or to regulate one’s behavior? It simply means to make the original man better by the means of the original self. But Christ comes to regenerate and remake us with Himself. The Lord would not heal the original man; He waits until the original man is dead. Therefore, when you are so full of the water of death that you stink with the odor of death, then the Lord will come to re-create you and resurrect you out of that death into Himself as life in resurrection.

The principle of the Gospel of John is Christ as life in resurrection. The intention of this gospel is not to improve or reform us by regulating our behavior. The Lord’s only intention is to bring life into us. This life will enliven, regenerate, resurrect, and recreate us. If we can apprehend the principle of this gospel, our thirst will be quenched, our hunger satisfied, our darkness enlightened, our bondage in sin broken, and our death swallowed up by resurrection—all by experiencing Christ as our resurrection life in the Spirit and through the Word. We can never experience the living Christ by anything of ourselves or by any of our doings. The living Christ is only experienced in the Spirit and through the Word. The Spirit and the Word will bring us into the principle of life in resurrection. If we take Him in the Spirit and through the Word, we shall then be satisfied, enlightened, freed, and resurrected. When we are resurrected from the dead, we are delivered from all aspects of death. Nothing can suppress us, nothing can restrict us, and nothing can imprison us because we are living in resurrection.

That's it for the 9 cases found in John ... much grace! @_@

Any "gleanings" from it?

Unless you are one who subscribed to theistic evolution (unfortunately, not a scientific theory), I can't think of any bridge between the two worldviews.

Might not be shown I think