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Science Who's your father? A child's right to know, A MORAL QUESTION !

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3dassets
post Oct 26 2012, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Oct 24 2012, 07:08 AM)
So, don't set your samples to the UK for testing?
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If test in Malaysia / Bangladesh UK law accept or not?
3dassets
post Oct 27 2012, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Oct 20 2012, 09:39 PM)
My opinion is yes. Absent anyone convincing me otherwise, our default position should be "everything is allowed, unless there is a good reason to forbid it", rather than the reverse " everything is forbidden, unless there is a good reason to allow it". The later would not be a nice world to live in.
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Which means the recent sexual intercourse video by the two immoral people is allowed unless local law says it is not, what a wonderful world according to individual's standard.
3dassets
post Oct 29 2012, 11:34 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Oct 28 2012, 02:36 PM)
Can you find any laws that say the video is not allowed?

Don't know what video you're talking about since you didn't provide a link. But if you cannot find a law that says a video of two people having sex is not allowed in Malaysia, perhaps you're not looking hard enough? smile.gif
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New law is created when the need arise, that is how everything work, just because there isn't such law yet makes it right? The reason there isn't such a law against sex video in this country is because people have not cross the line, exactly the kind of situation in your prefered wonderland.

Our conscience in a multicultural and religion environment forbid it known as understanding, not everything is written in black and white or cast in stone but stupid people are inconsiderate and provoke feelings.

3dassets
post Nov 2 2012, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Oct 31 2012, 07:45 PM)
What is the reason that we need this law to forbid genetic testing unless there is prior permission given? Truthfully, I haven't formed an opinion either way, as I never thought about this matter. But what are the "plus" and "minus" arguments?


Added on October 31, 2012, 7:48 pm

Suppose you got the DNA through other ways, eg swabbing a glass he just drank from, or his tooth brush, hair brush, etc.
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We simply cannot form any conclusion due to subjective arguments from all sides, hence stem cell cloning and such were banned and allowed by the relevant authorities. Similar to gay marriage, abortion... endless debate.

Only the authority can perform DNA test and use it to identify us in criminal investigation, no individual have the rights and it is consider violation if without consent. We first bow to our parents then teachers and then the law which is the highest authority that govern a society.

So, if someone claim to be your son, they have to provide their DNA test to you and you go do your own test to find out or you can ignore until criminal charges is filed.
3dassets
post Nov 3 2012, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Nov 3 2012, 09:16 PM)
You still have not given any reason on why it should be like this.

Alternatively, they can obtain your DNA (in any number of ways that does not constitute assault) and test it. You have not tried to convince us why that should be forbidden, other than just saying that it should be.
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Who do you think decide what is ethical or not?

How many countries approve gay marriage, abortion, death sentence... while why others does not? And does that mean every citizen approve it?

Why some countries still fighting for an island and who can decide its ownership?

Who wrote the rules of human rights and who can force others to practice it?

Who am I to say it should be and who are you to say it shouldn't?
Your answer is in these questions and form your conclusion.




3dassets
post Nov 4 2012, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Nov 4 2012, 06:13 PM)
I'm back to my original position. Default to allow, unless there is a reason to disallow.

Well, maybe you have good reasons, but decided to keep it a secret. Since you've decided to not share these reasons with us, the only logical position we should hold is to allow it.
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I don't hold any secret because I am not the person to allow or disallow, you can't seems to grasp the concept of written law and the unwritten rules of ethics and moral code but wait, you are acting dumb and I dislike your mockery when you turn against me when you ran out of topic to post.

Only people involve in enforcement and education has the say of what should & should not, we don't do things that will agitate others being a nuisance, people who do that are inconsiderate and need to be disciplined but in your case, it is too late and must commit an act that trigger the alarm to restrict by the authority.

Stepping on the picture or show your butt to our prime minister and post it on the web has become a topic to debate, and the 114 internet law is created recently, you think human by default is allowed to do anything but we are born into a society with many disciplines both behavioural and academical.

Stem cell research and human cloning is one of the example and you can go find out why it is not allowed and then who allow them based on what secret.

QUOTE
Who do you think decide what is ethical or not?

How many countries approve gay marriage, abortion, death sentence... while why others does not? And does that mean every citizen approve it?

Why some countries still fighting for an island and who can decide its ownership?

Who wrote the rules of human rights and who can force others to practice it?

Who am I to say it should be and who are you to say it shouldn't?


If you understand the questions above not necessary knowing the answers, you will not think I've decided not to share the reasons which I don't have, it is only logical that individual's opinion does not overwhelm the law maker or the rules practiced by the majority. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Nov 4 2012, 10:14 PM
3dassets
post Nov 6 2012, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Nov 5 2012, 02:19 PM)
AFAIK, there's no written law yet in Malaysia to allow or disallow this.
But laws are supposedly made by us for our benefit, and in a democracy, the people living in that country would theoretically have some say about which laws are made or unmade.


When is the last time you take part in lawmaking if we the people should be allowed to make and unmake law?
You are wrong, we were never given the chance and that is why you call it theory.


I don't know what you're talking about. I thought that this thread is about whether genetic testing should be allowed or not, or do you need to get prior permission first.

You know exactly what I am talking about when you shift the attention on personal attack saying I withheld some sort of secret to the decision making criteria, I know I am allowed to post because I have not violated LYN rules, no permission required.

Now I am confused. I thought you held the position that it should not be allowed. While my position is that it should be allowed, unless there are good reasons to not allow it. And absent any law saying anything about this (in Malaysia), it is presentlly allowed legally.

Of course you are confused because you thought wrong, I stated that we are born into such a system with existing law and rules, not up to us to decide what is allow or not based on arguable "good reasons", which none of us have the qualification nor the rights to influence and we can only assume until we consult a lawyer, AFAIK we don't really know to what degree is consider intrusive until being challenge based on assumption  which is individual's moral code and ethics.

Let me reiterate that law is in the making as and when is needed, not absent but not yet. Alcohol & tobacco advertisement used to be allowed but not anymore, I don't know if we have the law or not to govern genetic testing in this country but the last I read that the court ordered Anwar Ibrahim to provide sperm sample, now, does that suggest that you can go swap his glass with his saliva and use it in the court of law?


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3dassets
post Nov 7 2012, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Nov 7 2012, 10:31 AM)
Please don't reply in multi colours. It makes me go dizzy. And I cannot easy quote back to reply to you.

Are you saying genetic testing should not be allowed without prior written permission? Please state your position clearly. This is RWI.

I'm saying two things. (1) if it isn't prohibited by law in Malaysia, then it is legal (2) I think it should be morally allowed as well, still waiting for someone to convince me otherwise.

All that happen is somebody refered to a law in England that says it is illegal there.
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I had to use two distinctive colour to make it clearer because you are ignoring my point, you now say it is RWI but yet insinuate that I kept secret, my post only show how silly you are.

1. If that is the law, you go challenge the law, I am not stupid enough to say it should or shouldn't because it is never my choice nor yours.

2. The term moral can be according to individual's ideology just like the example I gave about the duo who posted their sex video online and promote free sex, they claimed that it is their rights and no existing law to prohibit such immoral practice, so who should determine whether it is allowed or not is the relevant authority not you or me.

Somebody saying it is illegal in England, why are you looking for the answer in a private forum in Malaysia? You should ask the bar council or consult a lawyer, the most we can offer is our personal views here in PhD school, so if someone convinced you eating shit will make you clever, you go eat shit?

PS: A public forum can only offer you similar or different opinions, not for you to acquire credible info nor to champion your ego.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Nov 7 2012, 02:33 PM
3dassets
post Nov 8 2012, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Nov 8 2012, 08:18 AM)
Because TS posts on this forum in Malaysia, which I happen to inhabit. He asked for opinions. And so I gave mine. Dare I ask what is yours? Or do I get slapped down again? You accused me of making personal attacks. Well, if I did, I appologize now. I ask that you stop retaliating.

You're right. Looking through so many posts. I missed the fact that this is PhD school. However, looking at the phrasing of TS's original posts. It looked like he was canvassing for opinions. Not a legal opinion from a lawyer, or a moral opinion from clergy.
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Now that is speaking frankly, I do not agree for anyone to test my DNA freely and do anything behind my back that concern me, I believe that is the basis of human rights. While you believe anything is allowed should be referring to beneficial rather than intrusive matter.

 

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