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 Monk Discussion V3, guides, opinions and builds for Monk!

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TSQuazacolt
post Nov 22 2012, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(gladfly @ Nov 22 2012, 03:18 PM)
I dont know where i read it..battlemnet I guess but I cant find the link..essentially .+elemental damage is only applied to physical damage. Hence like 2890 above said, non-black will still get the +elemental damage to its physical portion (the small font 300-900 eg) while it doesnt add to the +eg poison 300-450. So for a weapon like the manticore, the +elemental damage only boost partially the overall damage.

And also on the average damage..i.e rings/amulets.
*
based on this understanding however it contradicts with what blizzard has confirmed with us back in may/june ish where weapon elemental was a huge controversial.

so i guess we still need those dps charts after all? and better yet, actual test cases/solid post or source on the whole deal?
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 22 2012, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(2890 @ Nov 22 2012, 03:26 PM)
Yes and No.

If you add 5 percent holy to a manticore, you are applying that to a smaller physical range am i right?

BUT

if you add 5 percent POISON damage to a manticore, you are boosting the poison AND physical damage range. (this need to double check). i'm currently talking to the spreadsheet creator to get his thoughts.
*
hence we need solid data on this lo, definitely appeals to the min-maxers/more serious players around, and its what this thread is all about smile.gif


Added on November 22, 2012, 3:31 pm
QUOTE(gladfly @ Nov 22 2012, 03:28 PM)
Rite...actually you can test this by getting an Inna belt and equiping a similiar black damage weapon and a elemental damage weapon (2 hander preferably). See the diiference of DPS betwen both
*
hmm ill need to purposely bid 2 identical weapon range elemental/black weapons though sad.gif

pretty much something that rich people/people with a lot of time does lol, hence my earlier "plea" on generous/kind/hardworking folks to provide links (since bnet has a TON of hardworking people) to work that's already done.

because it isn't as simple as just comparing the dmg number in your inventory menu, ideally you'd also have to hit on a same monster/target dummy over a period of time/rounds and gather the avg dps output of both test cases.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 22 2012, 03:31 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 22 2012, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(2890 @ Nov 22 2012, 03:31 PM)
Blizzard in-game DPS calculator is messed up.
*
yes it is. then again you can't blame them lol, it is just a rough number to benchmark with and it is by no means a be all end all indicator to stick with (unlike addons from WoW that does real time dps benchmarking)

case in point: WKL monk players wink.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 22 2012, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(2890 @ Nov 22 2012, 03:43 PM)
I'm sure D3 will get there to WoW's level.. Bear in mind we are not paying monthly fees. So those whiners out there really gotta stop and appreciate what they have done.
*
you mean never get to WoW level? because they don't want to over complicate things as WoW did, and the game does not support addons at all and installing any may result in a ban smile.gif


Added on November 22, 2012, 3:48 pm
QUOTE(gladfly @ Nov 22 2012, 03:37 PM)
Indeed...I dont have a spreadsheet to show or raw data but I can speak from my experiance. I had a 1028 black damage mace and recently had a 1038 Axe dropped.No main stats on both except Vit/LS/Socket. So I played around ( I have a WKL and Inna Belt equipped). The difference in DPS is not much noticeable..but I got a higer DPS incerease wiht my black damage Mace eventhough its 10DPS lesser than the axe.

In game, the diiference between both were even more noticeable. The black damage mace was clearly hitting harder compared with the Axe. Nuff said..sold the axe:). Got a crappy deal due to the AH problem when it auction expired during AH was down..smile.gif. 18M for a 954 LoH, 2.3% LS OS 1038 Axe....damn you blizzard
*
maybe thats why it isnt noticeable at all.

not to mention, my crits on FoT can range between 30k (lol dunno whats up with that) to 300k... so even for my case, it'll be hard to test too. the thing with claws is that they have a widened damage range... iinm the narrowest dmg range would be daggers, which also means they have an overall lower nett avg dps and people end game generally avoid those weapons (noticed early d3 days everyone even krip's budget barb wields it, while these days i dont think ive seen ANYONE holding a dagger EVER lol)

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 22 2012, 03:48 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 22 2012, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(2890 @ Nov 22 2012, 03:35 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
unfortunately this still doesn't really explain much of the elemental damage unless we're sticking with what would've possibly be a conclusion to this query:
QUOTE
2. Works better with black cuz of the bigger range on black (MIN MAX damage bigger)

so its just their dmg range and not so much the weapon is non elemental ya?

because blizzard confirmed that the weapons' elemental properties are merely for cosmetic with the exception of cold, whereby it actually chills, however its useless cuz of lower weapon damage range.


but then this would overturn it:
QUOTE
I dont know where i read it..battlemnet I guess but I cant find the link..essentially .+elemental damage is only applied to physical damage. Hence like 2890 above said, non-black will still get the +elemental damage to its physical portion (the small font 300-900 eg) while it doesnt add to the +eg poison 300-450. So for a weapon like the manticore, the +elemental damage only boost partially the overall damage.

And also on the average damage..i.e rings/amulets.

based on this understanding however it contradicts with what blizzard has confirmed with us back in may/june ish where weapon elemental was a huge controversial.


does anyone have a screenshot of 2x daggers (and/or claws, narrowest/widest dmg range, or even 2handers i suppose) 1 with elemental and 1 plain "black" (lol with the black naming) that has the same dps? (eg: 500?)
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 22 2012, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ Nov 22 2012, 09:09 PM)
i only farm mp1. begger monk here.
*
im doing 5 cuz collecting keys lolz
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 23 2012, 01:54 AM

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ok i think we can finally conclude on the black weapons for now, and i have updated on the first post of this thread smile.gif


QUOTE
The "+x% Elemental Damage" affix works by adding "x%" of your physical damage to your attack, in the form of the damage type listed.

So, really basic example:
Your physical damage is 100, and the item adds +3% Fire damage.
You gain 3 extra damage to your attacks as Fire damage.


Things this takes into account:
Rings, mojos, orbs (etc) that have an "X-Y" damage affix (e.g. "1-2 Damage")
The base damage range of your weapon, before any elemental damage is added from the affix
+Min or +Max affixes on weapons

(Note: It doesn't benefit from "+X-Y Elemental Damage" affixes on weapons.)

We realize the current wording for this affix can be confusing, and it's something we'd like to make more clear in the future. If you have any suggestions for how this affix could be better worded, we're definitely interested in your suggestions. Just keep in mind that space is limited in item tooltips, and that whatever we use would need to be translated into all of our supported languages.


official sources:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6413025317#13

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6413025317?page=6#101

while i still can't get official math wiz and what not, i think we *SHOULD* be able to trust blue posts although blue has not replied on the inquiry as per the 2nd link/post.

tldr: elemental weapon sucks

link to 1st post (well 4th to be more accurate lol): http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=55257443
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 23 2012, 02:01 AM

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QUOTE(2890 @ Nov 23 2012, 01:58 AM)
So u finally understand?
*
its not the understanding part that i am looking for, its the confirmation and proof of mechanics. as i managed to find blue post, i can live with that for the time being.
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 23 2012, 02:12 AM

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QUOTE(2890 @ Nov 23 2012, 02:09 AM)
What i told you pages ago is the same as the blue post. Apparently no one believe me. I get that.
*
maybe include a link in the future? i think ive been requesting that since... i dunno, few pages more than you? lol
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 23 2012, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ Nov 23 2012, 08:24 AM)
well i still dont quite understand the black vs white i mean elemental weapon works. hahaa...just brief thru the threads and still blur. good thing is both of my EF and Butcher sickle are negga weapons.  tongue.gif  laugh.gif  brows.gif
*
just read that 1 liner tldr lo lol

i still wouldn't look at echoing fury because of the fear component, and even without, well rolled EF costs too much for my beggar monk to buy tongue.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 24 2012, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(cowithgun @ Nov 23 2012, 09:58 AM)
tadaima yuhhaur-san!
*
if you're gonna use it, at least try to get it right: "okaerinasai" お帰りなさい


Added on November 24, 2012, 12:50 pm
QUOTE(gladfly @ Nov 23 2012, 02:43 PM)
Hey bro..tadaima..just got back from Japan?

I know what you are getting at..but it could be me with crap positioning but so far RD minions hurts a lot especially after the last hotfix. Prior to that no issues with RD minions. If you run into one pack of RD minions, you can test by attacking the minions and alternate the Yellow leader. I find that the yellow leader reflects way less damage compare with minions...my take is that minions reflect the same amount as the leaders..but when you SW minions..usually you are hitting 2-3 minions at one go hence..2-3 times RD back to you....so far I never gain life when I meet RD minions...even with 1280LoH , 2.9LS and 500 Regen..which based on my DPS and using FoT, I should regain like 4-5k per hit
*
^ above.

also yes, you're very much correct that if you're attacking more RD minions, you get more reflected. its every dmg, from tornados/SW/your FoTs (and it's 3rd hit aoe)

and yeah i got killed by my baby tornados/SW before when im running away (not attacking at all) thanks to RD laugh.gif


Added on November 24, 2012, 12:50 pm
QUOTE(paranoid @ Nov 23 2012, 03:19 PM)
i too feel that the RD on minions are much more painful.. not sure why. .maybe mind over matter only hahah
*
RD scales with your dps. the more dmg you do, the more they reflect to you smile.gif


Added on November 24, 2012, 12:55 pm
QUOTE(paranoid @ Nov 23 2012, 05:27 PM)
i have encountered one of the worst elite affixs yesterday.

illusionist + arcane + plagued + molten.

fuuu.. the whole damn map is filled with arcane thanks to the illus, and pretty much we cant go about much because of the stacking molten+plagued.
*
iinm illus cant cast spells (eg: spam arcane)

and even if they do, they're damage is severely reduced. if it isn't, then its from the real mob.

also, there *SEEMS* to be some cooldown difference between type of mobs and/or AI triggering (trigger happy more like) the spells frequencies. this one can never confirm since blizz will never disclose it haha.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 24 2012, 12:55 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 26 2012, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(paranoid @ Nov 26 2012, 10:37 AM)
this sounds so degrading lol..

but yes, monk is a very good support class
*
doesnt have to be, monks are no longer the "must tank or dont bother play coop" class they once was back in the early pre 1.0.3/1.0.2 days


Added on November 26, 2012, 9:12 pm
QUOTE(2890 @ Nov 26 2012, 11:22 AM)
that just is so wrong. Give me 1 week, if i'm willing to touch my gold reserve, i'll link you my monk that has no LS, no LOH but rapes mp10 elites/ubers.
*
lol as a melee character that well, melees, you do need good life sustainability aka LS lol (unless your gold can somehow pump your life regen tick hardcore, or lpss for that matter)


Added on November 26, 2012, 9:29 pm
QUOTE(samuraislash @ Nov 26 2012, 05:06 PM)
If not mistaken need to kil SB less then 3 min.. If not that skeleton icon will apear and suck up hp faster..
*
i believe no more hard enrage timers? lol

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 26 2012, 09:29 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 27 2012, 03:01 AM

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QUOTE(Bringitawn @ Nov 27 2012, 01:59 AM)
Too bad no monks online to make a party... sad.gif
*
like i've said in previous posts: if you dont mind carrying me im available laugh.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 27 2012, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(yuhhaur @ Nov 27 2012, 09:26 AM)
Monks went meditation @ 3am tongue.gif
*
i went to bed too after that post. was waiting for my favorite love drama anime airing biggrin.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 27 2012, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(dreaming @ Nov 27 2012, 03:11 PM)
in total we can buff the damage for whole party up to 86% (#1, #2, #3, #5);
and buff player itself 101% (#1 - #5)!
*
multiplicative buffs, not additive. so no your numbers are wrong.
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post Nov 27 2012, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(paranoid @ Nov 27 2012, 04:45 PM)

*
oh Bringitawn beat me to replying
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 28 2012, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(paranoid @ Nov 27 2012, 07:57 PM)
for my monk, i dont use BoH unless i use guiding light passive. i dont see the point oh BoH without that passive.

comparing exploding palm with blinding flash, for my monk i would go for blinding flash.
the blind is awesome, the dps is bonus. plus i get to spam that without worrying. only costs 10spirit.
blinding flash is a better skill to aid coop play the way i see it, compared to exploding palm.
my logic is that the skill rocks, but only once in any elite fight. blinding flash is constant.

for me, it's not worth it.
*
you get blinding flash for the dps, not the blind. (and back then during the tanking ages, chance to miss increase from elites)

if it weren't for the previous patch on changing cc affecting monsters, any cc would be fairly worthless unless you're a cm freeze wiz.

here's a food for thought: 30% dmg increase for few seconds (and your SW snapshotting), or 12% dmg increment all the time with an additional DoT tick and a funny AoE when the palm target dies (not too fancy on boss fights with just 1 guy, however if you're in coop that'll be wicked sick)

also, 10 spirit is nothing
what is the actual cost, is a slot out of the 6 slots you scarcely have

your logic is kinda flawed in the sense that palm has no cooldown, thus it actually works constantly so long you can maintain it anc MoC (which you could! as per explained previously on having sufficient aspd), while flash... good luck waiting that cooldown and that short second blind and eventually diminishing to almost nothing (still better than the old cc resist where blind lasts for 0.x sec)


Added on November 28, 2012, 12:27 amto further illustrate on what i feel when i press blind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKlottc2Xy4&t=6m38s
(no embed because of time coding not supported)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKlottc2Xy4&t=7m25s
(or 7m 25sec on the video)
is how i feel once blind wears off sad.gif

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 28 2012, 12:30 AM
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 28 2012, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(Bringitawn @ Nov 28 2012, 12:32 AM)
Okay so i tried to exploit the bug but i don't see a drastic change. The dps resets after 3 seconds....what am i supposed to expect anyways? Is the dps supposed to maintain at increased 30% dps after the 3 seconds are over from blinding flash?
*
only on your SW, and yea its supposed to stay


Added on November 28, 2012, 8:49 am
QUOTE(paranoid @ Nov 28 2012, 08:37 AM)
it's up to your preference if you think exploding palm gives you more damage.
i'm talking about coop games. blinding the mobs (huge aoe) does not sound fancy if you only take into consideration of yourself in the gameplay because monks are tanky you wouldnt bother getting hit.
it's the same as why would barbs wanna stun the mobs in coop games, do you think they stun because they need it for themselves?
it's how ppl choose their skills in coop games.
even exploding palm has no cooldown, spamming 40spirit just for the bleed on a single target, that is not wise to waste my slot on that skill. exploding palm on works wonders when the champ dies, not during the entire fight. and for what reason do we need to spam exploding palm? i dont think you're refering to use it against a white mob. no matter how i see it.. that skill is not really that efficient in my games.
if exploding palm is way much better, im sure most monks wouldnt be using blinding flash already.
but anyway, it's up to how you play your game. im explaining why i see blinding flash > exploding palm.
if you really see it otherwise, im not forcing you to use blind.

ps. not sure if your video meant sarcasm or joke.
*
i've been saying, people dont get blind for the cc. it is even worth consideration after the recent patch changing how cc mechanics work.

and i've been saying that palm would hold more weight in coop than blinding if thats your logic behind the preferences. (which is why im not on palm myself, apart from having slow aspd aside)

the single target can be changed to multiple so long you manually apply to additional targets. not hard to click 2-3 times on elites. and boss fights typically have that 1 guy, uber also at most 2, just rotate your palm debuff around. the explosion upon death is icing on cake when you considered a stack-able 12% additional dmg debuff smile.gif

the video is as is, albeit if the MC uses 130% it'd fit PERFECTLY with blind's 30% dmg buff smile.gif

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 28 2012, 08:49 AM
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 28 2012, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(dreaming @ Nov 28 2012, 10:07 AM)
to the certain extend, i do agree with para.
i did a quick test on the early morning by using both MoC & exploding palm.
i do have problem run out of spirits by spamming MoC & exploding palm where i can't keep spamming MoC for every 3 sec sad.gif
i think it is not so wise to use huge pool of spirit to mark a single target for extra 12% damage. i better reserve the spirits for MoC's AoE extra 24% damage every 3 sec.

if you have no problem with spirit management for both MoC & Exploding Palm then it will be another story.
wow moba, ur DH so OP? sweat.gif
*
pretty much this. my aspd is like 1.6 or 1.8 something lolz. definitely not enough to juggle palm around targets.

however if i can get SW cost down via inna 4 set, then i'll actually look into palm seriously brows.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Nov 28 2012, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(kkng77 @ Nov 28 2012, 10:32 AM)
Which weapon has "Black Damage"? Thanks.
*
assault sacrifice

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