After so many years there is still no solution and it seems that the "golden era" of English can only be found during the reign of the old education system.
The new solutions that we have pamper the students so much that they don't want to learn. The new solutions that we have teach the students to be irresponsible people. The teachers are responsible to chase after them to sit for the tests because they have no responsibility for themselves. If I were a parent, I would love the PBS. Why? Because it is easy to pass and I don't have to worry about my children failing the exam. In fact, the teachers dare not fail the students for fear that the parents would make a big fuss especially if the student's father is an influential man in the school or the mother is one of the teachers in the school. If the student's father is a Mr Nobody, then perhaps failing him is not so much of a problem. Being school-based, the PBS is very subjective. The teachers are in a vulnerable position where the PBS is concerned and it is better to pass the students than to create trouble. What then is the standard of education in Malaysia?

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 3 2012, 10:18 PM

Sometimes I do wonder whether it is the teachers or the students who are studying. Whenever the teachers are asked to come back to school to give extra tuition to the weak students free of charge, very few would turn up. I had only three students the week before. Better than my colleague. She had only one student. Sometimes, none of them would turn up. This is happening in many schools. Once, one of my former colleagues came back on a Saturday to give tuition to the weak students but none of them came. This clearly shows how irresponsible our students are towards themselves. The present generation is over-pampered. Maybe that's why our Malaysian bosses prefer to take foreign workers. They don't have to chase after the foreign workers to make them do their work! Being borught up in a hard way, these foreign workers know how to treasure their job. This was what I told my students today when they didn't want to do their PBS.

This post has been edited by mountainphoenix: Oct 3 2012, 10:38 PM

hellow my frens,

Malaysia education is a world quality education. we have one of the most well established education system. all subjects are taught in our national languages (Malay) and malaysia university will be one of the top 200 in the world soon. we should be proud of our education system.

make sure u sent ur kids to study in Malaysia and malaysian dun waste so much money senting their kids overseas for "quality" studies. Top quality education can be found right here in malaysia!!!



.

this is rather subjective not all teachers are equal to begin with. and don't forget not everyone can get a place in public uni.

I don't want to sound like a troll, I'm not. But I think, sir, you are dreaming.

Malaysia has world quality education? When students who learnt English since their Primary 1 days till university can't even speak proper english with proper grammar? If this is some isolated cases, nvm, it's okay. But the majority of students/graduates belong to this category, and this is a serious matter.

Just look at our graduate teachers in the secondary schools. More than 90% of them cannot speak proper English. Many of them, especially the young teachers, can't speak English at all. This is the outcome of the 3M. And now the PBS is even worse than the 3M!

We just had a PBS meeting today. We were told that it is up to the teachers whether to pass or fail the students. The people in the Ministry said that they trust the teachers. But then there is also a contradictory view of their meaning of 'trust'. They said that they would come to the schools to check if the teachers simply pass the students. We were earlier told that the students in the weak classes could be given easier questions to pass the test. For instance, to introduce onself, it is enough if they could say, "Hi, I'm John and I live in Kuala Lumpur." As for the intelligent students, the teachers could even make them write an essay about themselves. This is very subjective, right? Then how could the officer say that the teachers simply pass the students if they happen to come to school and check? Didn't they say that they leave it to teachers to set questions based on the level of the students? So confusinglah!

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 6 2012, 12:11 PM

this is disturbing.... why the double standards?

well i really don't agree if your school decides to make double standard exams like that.

What the weaker students need are different way of learning things, not different set of tests.

The "double standard exams" as you call them are not the decision of the schools. This is what we call the PBS (Penilaian/Pentaksiran Berasaskan Sekolah). Many people still don't understand what this new system of education is. Under this new education system, the tests are set according to the level of the students we are teaching. Clever students have to sit for more difficult tests but weak students are given much simpler tests for the same paper. The schools just follow what the Ministry says. They can't decide anything.

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 6 2012, 12:06 PM

Let the PBS go ahead and if it doesn't work, it will be abolished when the time comes just as the PPSMI is going to be abolished after more than a decade after its implementation. As teachers, it is better to do what the ministry wants us to do and as long as we get our salary it doesn't matter what we do. This is what we call survival and many of us would have to learn it the hard way. There are many things in this world that we cannot afford to see clearly. Maybe we will be happier if we just keep one eye close. You don't have to worry for the students. For those intelligent students who want to learn more, they will find a way to do so. The parents are very clever nowadays. Many of them hire personal tuition teachers to teach their children the Singapore syllabus. (I used to give tuition last time and one of the parents asked me to teach her son Singapore's Year 5 English after the UPSR. I just couldn't believe what I saw. I thought I didn't have to prepare for the lessons but it ended up taking a lot of my time for the preparation. It's much easier to teach our form five students here!) If the students are intelligent and want to learn more to improve themselves, the parents would think of a way for them. Nothing for the teachers to worry about. For instance, my cousin sister and her husband went to work in Singapore just for the sake of their children's education. For the weak students or those who don't want to learn, they will be happier with the PBS.

This post has been edited by mountainphoenix: Oct 6 2012, 10:15 PM

i went through the PBS documentations, and nowhere did it say the assessment must be based on the level of the students. do point me to the right direction.

 PBS_LS_B1_lowyat.doc ( 47.5k ) Number of downloads: 63


Then you don't understand what the PBS is. The JUs went for a meeting last Friday morning and reconfirmed this method of testing with the teachers during the school meeting that afternoon. I attached above the first two tests prepared by the teachers when they went for the PBS course earlier this year? Just look at the first test and you will start laughing. Every student has to say, "Hi, I'm ___. I'm from ___." and if they could say that they have passed the first test. What about the intelligent students? My Form 1A students started laughing when I asked them to say that one by one. (If they were still in year 1 then maybe they don't mind saying that) I couldn't make them say that. Since they had earlier written a long essay about themselves (some could even write more than 200 words) I assumed that they have passed the test by making them rewrite the essay again on a foolscap paper (it will be a tedious task to photostat the exercise books one by one and no one will do that for me) and put it in their files as evidence. Under the PBS system, everything the students do must be supported by evidence. I'm actually supposed to tape the students' voices in a CD and put the CDs in their files as evidence that they could speak such sentences but I'm not going to do such a stupid thing. Who is going to buy me an MP3 recorder and pay for the CDs? Just make them write on the foolscap paper would do. As for the weak students, I made them write "Hi, I'm ___. I'm from ___" on a foolscap paper and put it in their files as evidence. The tests attached here are just a guide for the teachers. We had earlier (sometime in April or May) been instructed to test the students according to their levels by the JUs much to the disagreement of the teachers. So you can't believe it? Neither could I. You can't accept it? Me too. We were told last Friday to spend the holidays preparing test questions for the form 2 PBS next year. So every teacher prepares their own tests and there is no standard test. If the students are clever, make the tests more difficult and if they are weak, make the tests easier to pass. This means that for the same test, every teacher will do it differently with their students. This is what we call the PBS. Check with the ministry if you still don't understand.

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 7 2012, 04:24 PM

i believe i understand what the ministry is trying to implement now: the assessment is based on bands. this is the same system used in university level.

yes, it does mean people on the top band will have different or higher level of attainments than the lower band. as long as the student maintains the minimum standard of a particular band, they will stay there. if they achieve higher levels, they move on to the higher band until they maxed out.

it does imply that the assessment is no longer examination based, but continuous assessment, possibly through several weeks. which is the whole point anyways - making it less exam oriented and actually assess the attainments itself.

i'm sure u are aware of outcome based education (OBE)? about bloom's taxonomy and stuff? i'm quite interested because u didnt mention them even once, but the evidence all points to the implementation of OBE here.

When I was doing University of London's external LL.B. degree many years ago, my friends advised me to enrol for Wolverhampton University's external law degree program instead because it was very easy to pass and one could easily score As. I thought of doing that at first but before I got the time to enrol for the Wolverhampton external law degree course, the Malaysian government did not recognize the degree anymore. Why not? Because it was too easy to pass. No doubt, every university has its own examination system. Some may be of a higher standard and some may be of a lower standard. Just like the PBS, every teacher sets her own questions and it is up to her whether she wants her students to pass or not. For a weak class, the questions are easy and the students can pass easily. However, students in a good class have to answer more difficult questions to pass the same test. In the end, they are on a par with their weaker counterparts. They all pass the same test even though the intelligent students have to write an essay and the weak students need to write only a sentence for the test. Can we say that Harvard University is on a par with University Tenaga Nasional (just to quote an example)? If every school has its own examination questions, then we would have schools which are of a higher standard than others just like the universities. If every teacher sets her own examination questions then we would have classes that are of a higher standard than others just like the universities. Are the schools in Malaysia going to attain university status soon? If so, Victoria Institution University is certainly of a higher standard than SMK Seri Pantai University but can we say that the certs given by the ministry through Victoria Institution is of a higher standard than that of SMK Seri Pantai? No, they are the same. In the end, the clever and weak students are assumed to be of the same level.

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 8 2012, 11:16 PM

the band system introduced is a different assessment system that is NOT based on examination system. school A may have bands 1-3 (where higher is better), but school B may have bands 1-6. it doesnt matter if a lower band student passed the same subject as the upper band student; they're NOT the same band even though in the same subject.

so using your example:

UNITEN may offer the same course as Harvard, for example, in civil engineering. however, harvard is obviously upper band, while UNITEN is lower band. but both are offering civil engineering, nonetheless.

it's fine that teachers design their own examination questions as long as they fulfill the learning outcome (LO) required. and these LOs are usually very clearly stated. for example, it might say "student must be able to identify oneself" as the LO for a lower band. but for an upper band, it would say something like "student must be able to identify oneself using accurate 1st person reference". however the teacher wants to design the exercise will be up to them. and there's nothing wrong with that as long as it is fulfilled.

and if the student performed well beyond the marked LO, then they should move on to the upper band, until they're maxed out. that's where a teacher would recommend/nominate them to be elevated to a special class or something, if the ministry accommodates. what if they out perform a university student? well, good for them! with this system, we could move them to the special levels without being limited to exams like PMR. can a 15 year old sit for their undergraduate degree? if they've fulfilled all the requirements, why the heck not?

why are we being too limited because 'they didnt go through what we went through'? how do we know what we learned is the BEST? you're an educationist, go read piaget.

What if the teachers have to pass the intelligent and weak students alike up to band 6 which is the highest band? We are not encouraged to fail them. For band 6 - you can write an essay without guidance (for the good students) or given a guided essay such as filling in the blanks (for the weak students). In the end everyone passes the exam up to band 6. The weak students are as clever as the intelligent students where passing is concerned because they pass the same tests up to the same level even though their levels are far apart. Do you take what I mean?

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 8 2012, 11:20 PM

no, they DONT pass the same test. like u said, they are tested using different measuring scales. pass them based on their scales, and stop them if they're not capable of achieving the higher attainments. the weak and the strong will never be in the same band.

it's like motorcycle license. there's B2 (where u can ride a bike up to 500cc), and there's the full B where u can ride any bike regardless of its cc. if u took the B2 license, u still cant legally ride a superbike.

remember, at the end of the day, everyone will end up in a single exam: SPM. i know you're worried if teachers are allowed to skew the grades and move a weaker students into the higher band. it will achieve nothing: the student will be given false hope that he/she is better than he/she really is, the school's graphs were skewed unnecessarily towards the upper band when it should not, and eventually the students will achieve low grade during SPM, which is the prime indicator of whatever attainments that they have received.

 PBS_W_B6__lowyat_.doc ( 28k ) Number of downloads: 42


I attached above the highest level of the English test for the PBS this year. This test is from Band 6 (the highest band) B6DT1E1. This paper can be modified depending on which class the teacher goes in. The good students have to write an essay to pass B6DT1E1. This is what I normally ask my 1A students to do. But what about my 1E? Can they write this essay? No, they can't. In the end, I would have to give them a fully guided essay i.e. filling in the blanks in order to pass B6DT1E1. Do you understand what I mean? It's the same test (B6DT1E1) but more difficult for 1A and much easier for 1E. Unlike the motorcycle license analogy that you mentioned above, it is as though they are given a license when they cannot ride a motorcycle. This year is nearly coming to an end and many teachers still havent't finished their PBS yet. You think it's very easy to chase after the students to make them sit for the tests? Looks like the students will be given a license even though they can't ride a motorcycle! What to do? If they fail the students, they would have to answer for that. Too many failures would mean that the teacher is useless. Nobody wants to be useless. Some parents, especially the VIPs, cannot be offended. The teachers would only get into hot soup if they dare fail their children. I saw my colleague's son copying during the spelling and dictation test. If I fail him, I will have to give him another 2 attempts and I know that he would never be able to pass no matter how many chances I give him. Already there is no time left for the remaining tests. Wonder how I'm going to finish that. The other consequence is his fierce mother would give me a tough time proving that I'm wrong and her son is right. Why create trouble for myself? Just give him a license irrespective of whether he could drive or not. If everyone is doing it, then why not follow the crowd? Try going against the tide and see how it would be like? If anything happens, the school or the ministry would not defend the teachers. If, as you said, the PBS will not be taken into consideration at all for the SPM results, then why waste time with the PBS? Remember, the teachers spend more time chasing after the students to make them do the tests than teaching them. Don't you think it is a waste of time and energy?

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 9 2012, 11:06 PM

oh my god, what rubbish is that? you are a teacher, i expect you to stand for what you believe in and fight for your right. if your student is rubbish even after you've done everything you can for them, you should FAIL them.

look, i come from a long line of teachers. both my parents are teachers, their fathers were teachers, and so are my uncles and aunts. i cant believe i'm going to have to lecture you about what's right and wrong. you even had the audacity to open this thread and whack the government?

come on grow a backbone!

My grandparents were teachers. So were my parents. I know very well what I am doing and that's why I am writing this article. Where the PBS is concerned, I am just doing what everyone is doing. SMK D is going to key in the results without even asking the students to do the tests. At least I asked my students to write something for the tests. The only difference is they are doing it secretly and I am honest enough to give feedback to the government (not a whacking). I guess this is also what the government wants. It's no use asking the teachers to answer 'yes' 'no' questions to find out if they are ready for the PBS. Why not look into the entire situation? When it comes to school based, this is what happens. A few days ago, I confiscated one of my students' sejarah folio because he took it out during my English lesson to decorate it. Guess what I saw? Well, he photostated somebody's work and was about to put a nice cover on it. Just imagine this has been going on for years and I only bring it to light today. What if the marks were to be added up to the PMR sejarah paper?

This post has been edited by pivoine: Oct 10 2012, 10:16 PM