Many people believe in the so-called "ladder theory" or the "friend zone" that supposedly exists in women's thinking. According to the theory, once a guy is placed by a girl on the "friend ladder" or the "friend zone", he will never be able to be more than friends with the said girl. Some have even claimed that if you are, say, "good friends" with the girl for months or years or anything along those lines, you aren't ever getting her. I'm wondering what your opinions are about that. Strongly believe? Maybe? Dunno? Not at all?

Tomorrow if I feel like it I may want to share my own recent story which, I believe, highly relates to this "ladder theory", and no, it does not have a sad ending.

This post has been edited by mTk: Aug 20 2012, 09:12 PM

Instead of ladder theory, I have a texas holdem poker theory.

Relationships, as well in life, we have to make with the best with what we have. Just like the cards that we're dealt with on a poker table.

Fold.
Feign.
Follow.
Up the stakes.
All out.

Off course, a good stratagem I carry for myself is that I would never repeat the trick a few times and always play to your strength.

Personally I find being friendzone isn't as bad as it sounds, as for me I think it's a waste of time trying to analyze what went right or wrong as long as you're doing your best with what you have.

I myself have been friendzone twice, and both times I just look at the bright side and try something else instead, and not being downhearted just because my feelings and effort weren't being appreciated.

The 2nd girl that friendzoned me became my girlfriend after we lost contact for quite a considerable time.

TLDR: Analyzing theories are a waste of time as relationships isn't science. So go out, meet people, and have fun.

yah go out, meet ppl, have fun and GET LAID! lolz

there is no theory in getting laid and stuffs

Aiyor, guy also use tis. U in class, u meet a girl, u dun find her attrative, u dun think of her, u put her as fren.

Then u see tis hot chick, u straight away think if she was ur gf

Fail logic is fail.

Guys and girls got different logic here because of the environmental and situational factors:

Guy in class, meets a girl, dun find attractive, dun think of her, put her as friend.
As time goes by, guy gets closer to girl, eventually will fall for her.

Girl in class, meets a guy, dun find attractive, dun think of him, put him as friend.
Time goes by, girl gets closer to guy, feels guy being neither dispensable nor acceptable as a bf.
Result, put him in best friend zone forever so that she continually gets good treatment from guy and she doesn't have to commit to anything.
Reason here is because she's a girl and definitely she will have some other sort of admirers who are trying to woo her, so she's got a choice.

Guys when they woo a girl, they woo whole heartedly which at the end, if they don't get the girl, they lose almost everything.

Why cant girl fall for guy as she gets closer to him.

It all boils down to the personality

If appearance sucks, got personality tat the person like, still gt chance.z

If both suck, time to byebye

Honestly, tell me, how big of a probability that would happen?
This is like playing a game of supply and demand.
Assuming what you said there, I'll further elaborate.

Guy A is the guy that you mentioned, got no looks but got good personality.
Then in comes Guy B with better looks but so-so personality.

For a normal girl, she will definitely go for Guy B.
This is proven from the history that I have seen from girls' behaviour towards faceproblem guys.
I am one and I got these treatment a lot of times in the past.
They will go like "Yes, you are nice but he looks smarter and better."
See the difference?

But for guys, they are different.
When they fall for the girl, they really do.
But when girls fall for let's say Guy A, they will try and forget about it BECAUSE they feel going out / dating with Guy A is like a shame, not comparable to her packs' bfs.

TS pls share your happy ending story :-)

Eh I've seen a ton of guys go for the girl with better looks but so-so personality too.

The real difference is because usually guys go for girls, so in your scenario the girl knows she has two choices, A and B, while the guy may not know he has the choices so he settles.

In terms of mindset there really is no difference.

Haha my intention of the post wasn't actually to "analyse" any theory, but to see how many people in this forum still subscribes to it. Personally my own stand is pretty much the same as DavalPrestor's. I really don't believe in the said "zones" either, sometimes it's just a matter of time and circumstances, as in DavalPrestor's 2nd case.

I've got plenty of friends who still defend the so-called ladder theory, and insist that "once you and the girl become good friends, don't even hope for anything more than that." I found that hard to believe at times because my logic is that relationships where the couple truly understand each other would stand a good chance of working out instead of two people who haven't known each other very well, less "unknowns in the equation" in that sense. Turns out I was right after all.

I'll post the story later today (or when I feel like it, heheh).

If you wanna see oranges, you'll find oranges.

Just because you subscribe to it, doesn't mean it's entirely true.

Maybe your personality not as good as you think? So they just give you excuse?

The bottom line is both theories are possible because everyone is different. Girl A prefers looks over personality doesn't mean Girl B would too. If Story A happened to you, doesn't mean Story B can't happen to another person. Don't just write Story B off just because you've never experienced it and only experienced Story B before.

As for the "friendzone" rubbish, I don't believe it in personally. But that doesn't mean that other people can't or won't believe in it. Truth of the matter is some people really believe in it and some don't. Important thing is that you don't go around meeting people from the other sex thinking "this guy/girl got bf/gf qualities. can consider for future". Just go out and get to know people as human beings for who they are. Just be friends first and if things click then good for you, if not then too bad larh, just stay as friends. If the other party interested and you are not then too bad lorh, no mutual feelings. Nothing to do with "friendzone".

I have been doing that.
The problem is when I start out being friends with the other sex (girls I mean), they'll just be like "Oh friends only lah."
I originally do not believe in friend zone but now I start to understand that there is such a thing on friend zone.

I'll relate an example of mine:
I met a girl at college, got really close to her as a good friend.
Because initially I did not show any intentions that I wanted to go further from friends, it didn't cross her mind.
So when she was actually ready to take up a relationship, she did not have me under her potential choices.
This is what people mean about friend zone.
It's not that you don't start with friends but along the way if you're interested, you need to hint it out.
Not like me, when I was interested, it was already late and when I hinted, she said, we're best buds right?

Similarly if you meet a girl and the girl might be interested with you (and she looks like a plain Jane) but did not actually show any specific hints to you.
You'll go all the way and be friends with her, that's it.
You won't even consider her in the potential bf / gf sector.
You might even end up finding her for advise on how to tackle another girl around her.

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Added on August 21, 2012, 3:06 pmIt's actually more towards the awareness you need to make.
The friend zone thingy to me is that when another party doesn't see any potential further development interest in you, they themselves might be interested at first but will then lose interest as time goes on because you treat the party like a friend.

I would say if a girl likes you and you like her, you can't just tell her, Let's be friends.
This will indirectly cut off her interest to you in the future.

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Added on August 21, 2012, 3:07 pmYeaps, but in reality girls do have more choices than guys.
Funny thing about world ratio women more than men but look at all the single guys lurking around LYN and outside around KL.
You might even have 2-3 guys trying to woo a normal girl out there.
Which might seem that guys have lesser choices.

This post has been edited by redracer2004: Aug 21 2012, 03:07 PM

I guess you can say "friend zone" exists in a sense that you don't exactly consider the huge majority of the people you meet as potential partners. I.e it's far more normal to be in a friend zone just like it's far more normal to have a lottery ticket that does not have the winning numbers. Though again my point is that I don't believe that two people of the opposite sex cannot upgrade from being "just friends/good friends" to something more (unless one/both of them swings the other way of course, but that's a totally different story ).

As for hinting things out, it really depends on the girl too. Some girls take hints more easily than others. Some are very perasan. Others can appear to just take things for granted thinking that many people can really be nice just for the sake of being nice and without any intentions (my girl actually belongs in this second category).

Anyway, tl;dr version of my story:

Girl (let's call her M) and me met in 2008 through uni. She was attached back then. We became good friends in 2009 onwards. She broke up with the previous guy early 2011. We spent more time with each other especially towards the end of 2011 and beginning of 2012. I realised how attracted I actually am to her and how I enjoy spending time together. I've had a few platonic (as in, just friends) close friends who are girls before (you can say I "friendzoned" them too) but I thought this was really different.

Long story short, after about 5 months of my "pursuit", M initially rejected me and apparently was caught totally off guard. She's not the kind of girl who gets "hints" easily. Strangely for the following 3 weeks or so we became more and more intimate. The one time we had a serious talk to "draw the line" and remain friends instead, it only ended up in things becoming more physical. Then we finally decided to be together. Only then she explained the initial "rejection": it wasn't because she didn't have the same feelings for me, but because at that time she couldn't really decide whether it was right for us to enter a relationship. Changed her mind later I guess.

So yeah, years of being good friends then suddenly upgraded, which just convinced me of my stand that the ladder theory is bullshit.

This post has been edited by mTk: Aug 21 2012, 04:59 PM

You were lucky because of 2 things:

1) You both were friends and yet you both are attracted to each other unknowingly.

2) There were no other potential threats around for both you and her that swayed the love between you and her.

Your story is completely different as the girl seems to be quite loyal to one guy.
Similarly you are as well.
But most ppl (both guys and girls alike) are not like this.
If they feel they are being put under waiting list for some time, they will just jump to another line and patron that other counter.
I don't know when this trend started but yes, I witnessed it.
There was this girl who liked a guy for some time, 2 months.
The guy is my friend, he liked her too but didn't hint.
At the end, the girl chose another guy because my friend didn't do anything.

Actually i think so too.

It really depends, case by case. but the friendzone thing is not a holistic view. When a girl is being chased by 2 guys, she may start choosing? How about 2 girls chasing the same guy? This guy may take advantage of both too? "may" as i said, whilst at the same time he can response different or stick to his original preference which could be the 3rd girl.

What I want to say, please don't define something about relationship, at the end of the day, it is very simple. Rather than trying to understand "relationship" the focus should be placed on the very person, the object of interest; that is what a person should spend time trying to understand.

Falling in love takes both end to put in the effort, not many use the same formula on the scale, some is really scared to put in effort, some just go all out (but doesn't guarantee anything).

If a guy had dated a girl and later on she's gone after a few dates, just take it as a blessing, there's no forcing....smile because he had done something, be true to his own feelings, rather than keep it hidden....everyone is unique....love sometimes really need to let go....and that is beautiful.....because of that, it makes 2 souls that decide to stay together really beautiful too...because it is such rare gem!

If only girls can think like that.
Nowadays, I see girls choose guys based on appearance only.
Imagine hearing a conversation where a group of girls comparing whose bf is more handome and better looking.
I was like WTH

Good job stereotyping every girl out there eh? You earn a medal for being stupid over this.

Well, that's just for you. Like I said, it exists for some people who want it to exist but for others it doesn't. I've encountered this scenario before and we did date. I believe that knowing someone as a good friend is a good way to start a relationship anyway. So no, I disagree with you based on my own personal experience. But at the same time, I don't deny that other people in the same scenario would do what you mentioned.

well...maybe our friend here had been through a hard time...

I think a lot of ppl cannot read the signs....

it is always in the eyes.....something that does not deceive....