Another jumper! I hope, sooner or later Public Mutual will have to introduce zero fee ETF funds to stop the hemorrhaging.

I'm pleased that some of my posts were helpful to at least one person. At the very least, you have not brushed off and dismissed my previous post as nonsense when it was contrary to popular opinions. 'Letting the losses run' should be more common, if there was no confusion between a economy down trend and a bad under performing fund.

There seems to be lesser and lesser newbie panicky posts on whether to dump a fund, and too quick 'cut the losses' replies without the overall view of the entire portfolio.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jan 14 2014, 10:09 AM

Mutual funds, mutual benefits!

Only starting with regular savings... hardly anything compare to my EPF withdrawal at age 55. They want to love me, they better get their act together.

Let's get the facts straight. The date of investment makes a lot of difference. Using a different start date in a performance analysis will give different results.

If you take the performance chart right now(the most handy tool provided by PM) http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...formancenw.aspx and selecting 1-year performance, you will get this:
PIDF 10.13%
PISEF 11.00%
PDSF 11.29%
PRSF 15.28%

and PBIEF 12.99%.

All the above funds are local, large-cap, and EPF approved. All of them are similar; and most probably if they were ranked, they would rotate and take turns to be number 1. Just like the teams in any football league, only an extraordinary team can emerge champion continuously.

To have bragging rights in holding the champion, maybe hold all 5 of them. (I'm holding 3. )

BTW. PBIEF is PUBLIC BANK series. There is only 2 local, large-cap, EPF approved funds in PB series. What else can the bank agent recommend?

Cheers.

PS. Since the start date would makes a lot of difference, hedge the bet with multiple start dates... DCA, DCA, DCA!

There is no short answer to your question without repeating all my previous posts. So maybe the best advice would be start by reading the previous pages, and then maybe some in other financial website and/or threads in this website, so that we can assumed you have the basic, fundamental facts and concepts; and the charges/fees (the cost/expenses in any investments).

To begin with, you need to know what is your financial objective in putting your savings in mutual funds. Then read the posts with this objective in mind and see whether it is applicable to your situation. There is much difference in savings for, say, 5-10 years for a around-the-world trip, than putting aside savings for 10-20 years for retirement.

Not many people start off with a huge sum (and it is not necessary to wait till there is a pile of money before investing), but it is crucial to know the destination, the financial goal.

1. Estimate how much the final total you will invest.
2. Take a look at a previous post on the Supreme Buy-and-Hold Portfolio Model.
3. The model suggests no more than 5% in any one fund. In general, it is advisable not to have more than 10%.
4. Now, calculate how much is 5% to 10% of the estimated final total you have in mind.
5. Then purchase (using Dollar Cost Averaging method) till that 5-10% limit before diversifying into another fund.

(This is assuming that you can barely meet the initial RM1000 investment into a new fund; and follow up with regular DCA purchases.)

Cheers.

PS. Investing can be emotional; and the kiasu-ness in me makes me think that I'm losing something if I'm not holding the top fund with the best returns. But there is a cost in switching from fund to fund every year in hunting for the best fund. So how? Hold all of them la.

not as many as I used to have. Even in bond funds, I have the whole range of them, PB bond, islamic bond, Public sukuk, infrastructure bond, PB sukuk, select bond, what else... already forgot some . But slowly knocking off one-by-one into money-market; which is currently 3 different money-market funds!

If following the Supreme Model, there will be at least 14 equity funds, "at least" because I most likely to split 1 or 2 funds further and hold more.

Please don't get me wrong. Number of funds DO NOT equates to larger investment. 70% of portfolio splitting into 7 funds (10% each) is still the same as splitting into 14 funds (5% each). And if we split a 5% to 5 funds (1% each), we could eventually end up with 20 equity funds!

The only criteria I need to meet is the minimal 1000 units per switch! 30, 40, 50 funds? The possibility is endless!

Too bad Google did not pick up this popular thread! But you can easily find it using "supreme" as the keyword on the lower left, then click the 'search topic' button. Sorry, no nice pictures in this thread!

How I top-up? Had posted this strategy also months ago - via EPF (3% instead of the usual 5.5% charge); put into a bond fund before switching bit by bit into equity fund.

(EPF money, can buy local funds only; so I had to reserved my old loaded non-EPF units for foreign funds and local small cap funds.)

I don't. I've already reached my immediate goal (gold status) and have enough troopers many years ago. EPF is about 30% of the portfolio and some of these EPF units are still low-load units.

So you see, I have already set up all positions and combat-ready anytime. No logistic problem in moving and loading the low-load units; and got free airlift services every year. I can freely move my units around accordingly to the battle plan.

yes, it's the financial attachment in the full annual report. Either find it inside PMO, or if you holding the fund, the annual report is mailed to you.

Wong Sifu,
Your rant noted!

I've yet to diversify to another fund company. Still looking... and a couple of things bother me too.

1. When browsing through FSM, I noted their "Initial Service Charge...". Why "Initial S.C" instead of just "Service Charge". Does it mean that subsequent purchases will not enjoy the same low service charge? Is it bait & switch marketing tactic? It won't be too good if we already half-way in, and then cannot proceed further due to higher charges and fees. Maybe costly to pull out either; but definitely a waste of time to build up the equities again in another fund.

2. Distribution income declaration. http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...on-for-5-funds/



"It said on Monday" (today, 27th Jan 2014)... for period "as at Dec 31, 2013"... and "Unit holders who maintained their unit holdings as at Jan 28, 2014 would be entitled to the income distributions"

AFAIK, Public Mutual did their income distributions in a very straight forward manner. They would announced the income distribution on the business day either on or before 31st Dec. and the distributed units credited within 2 working days. No cut-off dates or whatsoever that complicate or muddle up things. ( one of the rare moments praise is given to PM!)

So you see, above do not inspire confidence in the long run...

He is! I think he was selling to family members too.

This is how I look at the charges:
1. Annual management and trustee fees. This is hidden. I don't pay for it out of my pocket. What I don't pay, doesn't bother me.

2. Service charge on each new purchase. It's a long term investment. (Till I die; and possibly transfer the funds to my spouse and family). If amortized, it's next to zero per year.

3. Don't love your money too much. Else you will only think about the costs, and never the returns.

Cheers.

1. Yes.

2. Yes, with PMO. Money-market fund, not bond fund. Switching into money-market fund (after holding the original fund more than 90 days), no switching fee. Switch out from money-market fund, a flat rm25 fee - so the switched amount should be big to reduce the RM25 into a very small percentage.

3. Buy more equity. I would start with 100% in equity, but will not OVER invest putting all savings into mutual funds; would put, which would be a major portion especially if just starting working, into savings acct or fixed deposit as emergency fund first.

Will only lock profit when the savings/investment is truly matured before considering a risk balanced portfolio (ie. a mixture of bonds/money-market and equities).

During the accumulation stage, will continue buying when market dips to average down the unit cost. When market trend is going up, will let the fund grows and compounds itself.

Lastly, if I have just amortized the service charge over the past 4 years, I would not redeemed any funds back into EPF; especially if the objective to diversify some of the retirement fund away from EPF; and anyway, the invested amount is just a comparably small percentage of the total EPF money in Acct 1 & 2; and the profit gained another percentage of the total invested amount pulled out of EPF.

You have attempted to TIME the market; and did it with a shitty volatile fund. Its benchmark rebounds, but not the fund!

Maybe switched into a local fund, like PRSF, and hold another 5 years.

As it is on the service charge, it is peanuts...

The trick is to look for funds with lower service charge.

Total investment: RM100,000.00
5.5% S.C. = RM5,500.00
6% GST on S.C. = RM330.00
Total cost = RM5,830.00

Total investment: RM100,000.00
2.0% S.C. = RM2,000.00
6% GST on S.C. = RM120.00
Total cost = RM2,120.00

Total difference = RM3,710.00.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Feb 6 2014, 06:18 PM

yes, PISEF is closed. But still open if the money is from EPF.

The 2 other equivalent funds in the FBMS benchmark are Public Islamic Equity Fund and Public Ittikal Sequel Fund. And also Public Islamic Optimal Growth Fund.

PITSEQ is a relatively newer fund, and if based on past 2 years apple-to-apple comparisons, it is close to PISEF in performance.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Feb 6 2014, 10:30 PM

There was a very dated phrase "His one cent is as big as the wheel of the bullock's cart".

Of course, every cent counts in an investment; but as said the GST is on the charge, not the purchase.

6% GST on 5.5% service charge is 0.33% additional cost, and 6% on 2% is 0.12%.

The 6% GST at first glance seems a big amount, but it is peanuts in relative to the service charge. So look at the bigger picture and consider funds with lower service charges if total cost of investment is paramount.

yeah, and since I'm using DCA method, each purchase is rm1k. If I'm willing to pay the 5.5% service charge, the additional GST cost would be rm3.30 and it will not deter the purchase. If I want to whine, it would be the service charge.

got more than that with several well timed switches on Tuesday.

Yes, policy of 'lesser cost'. To get around this - whether to use loaded units or low-load units as I like, I'm using different funds to separate the low-load and loaded units... a bond fund for the low-load units, and a money-market fund when switching out from equity funds.

BTW switching is only in terms of "units", not ringgit; minimum 1000 units in a switch no matter whether the nav price is 0.22 or 1.04. So, need to be careful that any balance in any fund is not less than 1000 units.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Feb 13 2014, 11:08 PM

Try not to have any preconceived ideas and assumptions in your mind when processing new info. It has nothing to do with FIFO (first in first out) or LIFO (last in first out) method.

Policy of lesser cost means that Public Mutual will try to make the cost as low as possible in the switch.

If they switch out the low-load units, it will be a charge of 2.75% (if it is an EPF account) or 5.25% (normal account) .

If it is loaded units, it will be either a flat RM25 (if the units are older than 90 days) or 0.75% (and a minimum RM50 if the 0.75% is less than RM50).

So the least cost is usually switching out the loaded units as these units have already been charged the service fee; and so only paying the switching fee of RM25.

In your case, it would be better to switch out exactly 1034.24 units or do a full switch. It will simplified matter, and leaving no room for error and dispute; as switching out more units (say 1200 units) can screw up things and the switching fee may not be what you expected it to be.

If say you switched out 1000 units, and later the remaining 1007.80 units (34.24 loaded units and 973.56 low-load units). The first switch should be RM25 (if 90 days or more).

The 2nd switch of 1007.80 units could MAYBE be counted as 2 transactions. RM25 for the 34.24 loaded units; and the usual service charge (less 0.25%) on the 973.56 low-load units. (You would have saved RM25 if you do a full switch instead!)

Now, do you see my reason in not putting loaded units into a fund consisting of low-load units?

here's something for the weekend... it's about annuity and it may seemed out of topic in this UT thread; but it's appropriate for a retirement fund when the retirement fund in unit trusts (due to low and inadequate savings) is not enough.

Paul Merriman: Protect your retirement from future stupidity.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/protect-y...2-26?link=MW_RM

Some background premise on retirement fund, before reading the linked article:
1) The annual withdrawal out of the fund is 4%.

2) The size of the fund or savings, using this yearly 4% withdrawal, should be 25 times of your yearly expenses for a comfortable retirement. This yearly expenses is purely expenses, since there is no outstanding loans and you had reached stage of 'financial freedom' in retirement.

3) Statistically, a balanced portfolio in UT is expected to return about 8% annually. 4% is withdrawn or cashed out, and the remainder is reinvested back into the portfolio. Thus the portfolio and the 4% withdrawal is adjusted to inflation.

4) A retirement UT fund, almost untouched, can be left to heirs. While an annuity leaves nothing.

---------------

"One mistake a lot of seniors make, for example, is making major decisions based on emotional advertising, without consulting family members or a financial adviser."

emotional advertising!!! worded very diplomatically. Just think of all the scam cases that's on the local news...

Seriously, and I'm not trolling, and this is the best advice you can find: Keep your money.

Do not invest in anything unless you have taken the time and effort to know more about it.

Some may not agree with me and think that any lost in an investment is part and parcel of any investment and its associated risk, and the lost is 'tuition fee' in learning about the investment.

They may be right. It's up to you (to make the effort to learn first before starting into any investment)... it's your money after all.

Cheers.

i switched out of Indo fund too early. (crocodile tears )