Greeting sportsmen and sportswomen,

I believe picture speaks a thousand words and I'll start off with showing picture of me.

No face though, still a bit shy, maybe later on



Orait. Some infos: I am roughly 178-180cm tall, 68-70kg.

Currently, I, as most of men, hope to gain bigger chest and biceps to look good and feel strong and healthy.

My current routine when i go gym is:

1. Bench Press
2. Incline Bench Press
3. Dumbbell Fly
4. Pectoral Fly
5. Triceps Pull Down
6. Barbell lift
7. Arm Curl
8. Chin Up
9. Crunches

Basically there are just 3 doubts for now, do help and comment

1. Any improvement for my routine? I copy some of it from other members. Feel free to give comment

2. When I do triceps pull down. My back hurts. What should I do? Lighter weight is too easy for me (below 25kg). When heavy (30kg) then my back pain. So how? I need to do back muscle exercises? I am a beginner and not quite sure what to do

3. Do comment on my body for where to improve. Personally, I feel like my abdomen part bulges and my chest slants inwards. Is it normal?

Last of all, thanks for reading and helping

Public Service Announcement: Squatz and Deadlifts !

No leg exercises?

what mean? Sorry novice here..

Oh yea, i forgot to say that I am marathon runner too. Basically 1 day I jog around 5-10kms sometimes 20km then another day I go gym. Do I need to do extra leg exercises?

IMO, jogging is not a very good leg builder, especially long distance. BTW, marathon and bodybuilding does have a very low chemistry.

oh no... Nvm.. If i have to choose between these two, Ill go with bodybuilding.

I add in 1 leg press is it sufficient?

Well, if you really want to devote yourself into BB, you need to find yourself a good and proper routine.

I will add in leg press as the second last in my routine in first post. Is it good and proper?

not close to proper. try to read a pinned thread "Pinned: BODYBUILDING AND STRENGTH PROGRAMS". There you can find a proper routine.

thanks! any comment bout my first 3 doubts?

I can't really tell from your pics, but maybe you've got a very slight case of Pectus Excavatum?

I've got this. My chest kinda goes inwards, the bottom part of my rib kind of sticks out, bringing my stomach a bit more out.

1) How many times to you workout in a week ? and No. 1-9 are the workouts you do in a day ? If so you're missing a few things there .

2) If your back hurts when doing tricep / lat pulldown, it will most probably be due to wrong back position or simple your back is not strong enough. You need to add back exercises into your routine, deadlift being the most important.

3) I believe you do not have to worry too much on your body, instead pay close attention to your food and workout first as a start.

Thanks alot Janson! Any good suggestion for arms and backs exercises to fit in my list please? Deadlift is noted as suggested by dennis.

OMG. I googled Pectus Excavatum. Yea. Something like that. Below my ribcage, there is a slight "hollow". Damn This is unchangeable trait?

Thanks dennis!

Basically I tried to go alternating days as much as possible whenever I am not occupied. Pattern is like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday then start over with Monday again.

But sometimes I might be busy and skip one to two days.

Yea I tend to skip one to two days myself sometimes but it is still very important to have a routine for example :

Monday - Chest

Wednesday - Back

Friday - Shoulder

Sunday - Legs

When you get a hold of this routine, you can make adjustments by adding say, Upper Body day or Arms day where you only focus on certain exercises that target the specific muscle group instead of doing all exercises in 1 day.

" OMG. I googled Pectus Excavatum. Yea. Something like that. Below my ribcage, there is a slight "hollow". Damn sad.gif This is unchangeable trait? "

Unless you have reached your full potential (as in less than 8% body fat and the best mass/height index, that is not a trait you ought to worry about now

If you really have pectus excavatum, then it's the bone structure. You got any other pictures to show? Looks quite different from mine though.. But your description of your tummy more front than your slanting chest sounds like it :/

Just train your chest hard. Just google pectus excavatum bodybuilding.com and you can see people who lift with them.

Dont think you need surgery or some sort because yours seems very mild.

seems familiar this photo.

will take more photo. but not so soon. busy week. cheers swks!

who you?

>>>> To everyone, do comment as adviced by dennis.

Monday - Chest
1. Bench Press x 5 sets
2. Incline Bench Press x 5 sets
3. Dumbbell fly x 5 sets
4. ????

Wednesday - Back + Triceps ?
1. Tricep Pulldown x 5 sets
2. Dead lifts x ???? sets
3. ????

Friday - Shoulder + Biceps
1. Arm curl x 5 sets
2. Barbell lift x 3 sets (normally i do 60kg)
3. Chin up x 3 sets
4. ???

Sunday - Legs + ????
1. Leg press x ???? sets
2. ????

I will end everyday with 1 set 100 crunches then next set around 50 crunches.

1 question: Ideally 1 workout session for me is around 1 hour?

Thanks for all the response so far

That routine is not good IMHO.

Half a day for back?? Back is a major muscle group and it needs a full day.

Deadlift is a very poor muscle builder - especially if it is your ONLY back exercise. In fact, if you are only doing ONE back exercise please stay away from deadlift. It's useless on its own for hypertrophy.

Monday - Back

Wednesday - Chest/Tri.

For Back routine try:

Chin Ups 10 reps x 3 (You can either keep adding sets or move to weighted)
One arm DB rows - heavy x 5 sets
Cable low rows - high rep lighter weight x 5 sets
Deadlift/back extension x 3-5 sets.

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Ridiculous to do ONLY deadlifts for back unless you're doing powerlifting.

It won't get you that V-shaped back on its own that's for sure.

DJJD, it's good to help / advise but be sure to never mislead.

1) Deadlift is one the best exercises you can do in a gym. Deadlift
2) Deadlift builds and engages more muscles than all the other exercises you mentioned (of course that is if you have any idea what a deadlift is)
3) TS never mentioned anything about "half a day for back".
4) TS never mentioned of doing only ONE back exercise, but simply asking on suggestions to improve his routine.

This post has been edited by dennisdevosse: Aug 1 2012, 01:29 AM

My opinion : master the deadlift, it's help one to accelerate in his path to build monster back. This means, u should do deadlift and other back iso/hypertrophy exercise as well.

Yes I obviously don't know what a deadlift is having been training for the last 3-4 years.
TS split one day workout between tricep and back isn't that half a day?

This "best" exercise ever thing is a myth.

Deadlift is a good exercise for strength but IMO not hypertrophy. And it is never necessary, no exercise is.

You want to take a challenge? Swap deads out of your routine for 8 weeks. Replace with heavy-ass one hand kroc rows, upwards of 80lbs.

Compare your lat spread on week 9. Then come back and tell me I don't know anything about training.

Thanks alot for more inputs!

Everything is noted. Will try reply 1 by 1 soon.

Yeap. I am asking for suggestion for my routine as I can't afford a personal trainer and hoping to do the best routine for optimum results without injuring myself and wasting my time doing the wrong thing.

You should be your own personal trainer. Find a beginner routine, probably stronglifts 5x5 and learn and do the correct form for each exercises. Knowledge is power.

thanks for reminding about the form! Will watch video this weekend. Especially regarding tricep pulldown. Back pain...

thanks alien!

Welcome man. Form is everything. If you didn't want to have injury like what adix4 currently suffering, better watch your form.

Owh yeah, yesterday I say a guy doing a tricep pulldown with heavy ass weight (almost double from my weight) but with a very short ROM and the jerking, the elbow swing

This post has been edited by alien9: Aug 1 2012, 01:08 PM

"masuk air"

What's ROM?

Range of Motion. It is the range of a movement. Every joint in our body have its own ROM.

TS,

you might want to consider eating a lot more food if you're considering putting on some size.

i'm close to your height and used to be 70kg but have now gone on to 80kg and eventhough the amount of weight i can lift goes up each month, i'm still far from the size i want to be.

NB: when you think you've eaten a lot, eat another dish.

Agree with djjd. Though deads give you the best bang for your buck when it comes to muscle activation and whatnot, its not enough to just do deads for back.

Myself I'm doing weighted chin ups, lat pulls and rows in addition to deads.

On a time constraint I'll just do deads, and put back exercises to another day. I'm doing deads during back days because its convinient, not because its my main back exercise.

But I think TS is asking about what back exercises he could do, and not asking about what ONE SINGLE back exercise he could do. So referring to that point, I think deadlifts are the best back exercises, and of course not the only exercise to be done regarding back.

Other back exercises like those you mentioned and back extension are good too.

I don't want to criticize anyone because we're all here to learn (and learning), but I seriously think some people go and read 1-2 of Mark Rippetoe's articles and think they know everything.

While I have great respect for Rippetoe and am a fan of his how to squat videos, there are just as many other great coaches who don't advocate deadlifts for hypertrophy. Dorian Yates for example said he mostly does DLs on leg days, and even then primarily for hamstrings. When he does them on back days, he puts them last.

You've got to differentiate between training to get strong (firing of muscles major muscle groups + stabilizer muscles) versus training for hypertrophy/growth.

A lot of oly lifters and powerlifters can outpress BBers but they don't look anywhere near as impressive.

Back day (for me anyway) means main muscle should target LATS. Primary muscle activation in deadlift is split between hams, lats, traps, erector spinae, maybe even glutes depending on your form/hold. Thus, if you are aiming for hypertrophy, I don't see how DL can be considered your major exercise on back day.

I still dare anyone to take the challenge - swap heavy DB one hand rows for deadlifts for 8 weeks, 5 sets of 10 reps each going up to 80lbs and above, and tell me your lats don't look bigger.

Again, I'm not knocking the deadlift/those who deadlift - just sharing what worked to build a bigger more impressive back, for me.

This post has been edited by DJJD: Aug 2 2012, 01:30 PM

squats and deadlift is overrated

chin-up tarak lepas wanna talk bout deadlift..

Its not. Show any one individual that can dead x2 his bw and tell me if he at least looks like he goes to the gym.

Deads aren't a back exercise per say. Its compound. If you wanna target back do rows. Or pulldowns, or pullups. Whichever works for you.

I mean,its good,but its a little bit overrated
its more like a strength exercise if your goal is hypertrophy i wouldnt recommend you too focus on these exercise
people there is saying this 2 exercise is like the best and without them you cant grow and you must do them

anyhow,i still squat.

YO guys, imma let you finish, but hear my 2 cents.

I do agree that doing deadlifts alone is nowhere near enough for hypertrophy, especially if you're a bodybuilder in pursuit of aesthetics.

HOWEVER, ts, and some of the lurkers here are still beginners, and for that, the deadlift would be an excellent exercise for them. For all intents and purposes, before you can deadlift 2x your bw, you're still considered a beginner.

Deadlifts recruit everything you have, and it's a simple exercise. You just lift that f***ing barbell off the ground. Nothing can be more satisfying than that.

I know some of you here did hypertrophy straight away and got excellent results. Good for you. I am still an advocate of SS for beginners. Anyhow, all roads lead to Rome, it's just a matter a time. So pick a programme and stick to it.

k brb,dedliftz day

Hey, just want to contribute my opinion, I think that deadlift trains lower back more, while rows and chin up trains the lats, a good mixture will be good right?
Row movements to get the inverted triangle and mixing with DL to get the awesome lower back. Add the parallel grip pulldown to get a thicker back, that's what i know so far la.
Furthermore the DL activates more muscle group thus encourage more growth.

oh yea! i regretted this. at first i thought i will overeat and grow fat. I guess I was wrong. Now I am eating as much as possible + work out with the scedule i posted.

1 thing bout nutrition is i am not quite sure about counting calories. how you guys know how much calories u ate?

yeap! I am looking for opinions and a workout plan for me

For the rest of the comments, I am learning lol. Read-ed all of it. Got no say as I am just a newbie

once you learn to accept the fact that you want results, you will need to consume a lot of food and you will raise your body fat to let's say about 15-18%, you will start to see noticable gains.

don't bother counting calories unless you want to create more headache for yourself at this stage. when in doubt that you're not consuming enough calories, add good fats to your diet. this can be in the form of adding almonds that you have in a bag you can snack throughout the day or like for me, i take all natural peanut butter to act as calorie fillers.

don't think to much about it and just keep eating.

Well, coming from my experience, counting calorie is a must. Why? How can you know that you've consume enough protein to reach your daily protein intake? How can you even know your required protein intake if you didn't start to count?

personally i'll count my protein intake i grams rather than take it's caloric amount as it's easily accessible on most nutrition labels already. from reading your posts, i believe you're trying to lose the weight and therefore you count your total calories consumed so that's fine.

for a guy who's trying to gain, just keep on eating as frequently as possible.

ofcourse, if TS feels that counting calories keeps himself in check, then by all means go ahead ie. if TS keeps a food log.

what's ur mass now?

do this routine if u like, its for beginners, dont change anything just do it correctly.:



had many positive feedbacks though.

Thanks for the assurance. Will eat like no tomorrow as I am trying to gain weight!

Any tips on good proteins in ur meal list? Peanuts as in this one?



Thanks Grassvatore! That is one hell of a great info! Will definitely implement some of it. I found a gym partner too! Gonna work out under him next monday i think

welcome,
meat, chicken(in ur weight doesnt matter which part just eat whole chicken if u can,prioritize breast part, if u dont like, enjoy drumsticks ), peas(almonds,dhals, whatever peas),milk, go for fresh/(powdered if tight budget),
protein is macro nutrient you need it to build new muscle, but dont go too deep, watch for calories more.

u didn't answer my 1st question though.

I dont have to worry about those manufactured milk like Marigold HL? No side effects right? Heard rumors bout manufactured milk not good for humans

Im planning to eat 2-3 half boil egg everyday for breakfast. good idea?

Oh yea. I posted in first post actually. I think i hit 69-70kg when i last weigh.

very good indeed, i do that myself,
eating 2 whole eggs everyday, plus 2-3 slices of wholegrain,hot-dogged the egg

im not going to admit that what ur read/heard is true, but here is an articles regarding HL milk though.

and dont forget to drink shakes, atleast twice per day.

TS,
like what Grassvatore mentioned, eat the whole chicken if you can or else chicken breast would be at the top of my list followed by nuts (almonds>peanuts) and milk. i went on a HL milk binge previously because i thought hey this has the highest protein content in the market but i later moved to DL fresh milk as i found this to be more palatable in the long run.

i think goodday milk comes in 4L packaging right? go for that instead rather than stocking up your fridge with so many boxes of HL milk.

shamefully, shakes as in fruit juice?

thanks! got it whatdamn!

How do you actually define a heavy work out ? If it's heavy then you shouldn't be doing more than 5 reps. If you're capable of pulling off 8 reps, then it's not heavy enough. The basic premise for this workout is quite flawed. Furthermore I think that for a beginner, that's way too much volume. You basically have the 5 core lifts in one day.

does goodday?

i dunno about fruits juices shakes, but im talking about protein/calories shakes.
heres the link for massive recipes of the shakes.


heavy workout in that routine means use full weight.

about the reps, 8 reps are the best, 5 reps are to heavy, almost lead you to a one rep heavy max. im not gonna discuss so much about it anyway, cus im a beginner myself. .

anyway, ive done this workout for few weeks and i could say that it fit for the beginners.

edit: the routines is not by me, its by some expert so called all-pro, if u calling this routine quite flawed, then u should refer to him as creating routines are not my specializations.

This post has been edited by Grassvatore: Aug 5 2012, 12:04 AM

@grassvatore
Best you check out what they have in the supermarket. But i'm pretty sure they had something larger than a 1L.

lol alot unanswered questions here.

btw. gym membership just ended. Looking for below 100 alternatives. any suggestion?

Look for ghetto (ie shoplot) gyms in or around your area.

It was good training with you mate.

Hope you keep it consistent - if you do, at your age you have lots of potential.

All the best.

I also beginner like u..

1st thing that i done that make shape on my bdy is STRONGLIFT 5X5.. it is like a to make a mould of your body..after, u can do more routines..