I am considering Inverter & Non Inverter Air Con.
Do it really save electricity using INVERTER Using in LIVING ROOM etc ?
Which brand is recommended ?
Inverter vs Non Inverter Aircon ., Really save electricity ?
Inverter vs Non Inverter Aircon ., Really save electricity ?
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Jun 26 2012, 09:59 PM, updated 12y ago
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#1
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Senior Member
2,293 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
I am considering Inverter & Non Inverter Air Con.
Do it really save electricity using INVERTER Using in LIVING ROOM etc ? Which brand is recommended ? |
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Jun 26 2012, 10:27 PM
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#2
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Junior Member
18 posts Joined: May 2007 |
I had the same dilemma last year when i was choosing air cond.
What I was told by the air cond technician is that, unless you on the air cond for around 10 hrs or long periods of time, there is no difference between them. Because from what I understand, inverter saves electricity by maintaining the temperature through constantly cooling and running at low power. While non inverter air cond maintains the temperature by cooling it down to the desired level, stops cooling and will only start cooling again after the temperature rises to a certain level. This act of cooling and stopping takes up a lot of electricity, as more electricity is needed to restart the cooling as compared to running the cooling at low power continuously. Thats what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong... So if you're just using for your living room, there should be no need for an inverter. Plus the price difference between inverter and non inverter is not exactly small. As for brand, my recommendation would be PANASONIC. Its more expensive compare to the rest but each of them have lasted at least 10 yrs before breaking down and requiring extensive repair. When that time came, I just bought a new one... Currently for my house I bought 5 air cond, all PANASONIC. 3 unit 1.5 hp and 2 unit 1 hp. 2 unit 1.5 hp in the living room and 1 unit 1.5 hp in the master bedrooom. Electric bill stands at around RM200-300, no tampering of my power meter. My neighbor using dunno what brand, dunno how he use, he is complaining of paying RM800 a month. And please take note, normal house circuit only can take total 4 hp of air cond running at any one time. This post has been edited by radver: Jun 26 2012, 10:43 PM |
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Jun 26 2012, 10:36 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
1,376 posts Joined: Jan 2011 |
Inverter starts saving money once it has achieved a stable condition, ie, there is no extensive temperature hike from your set temperature. To achieve the stable condition, you will need 3 hours minimum. So if you are using your AC more than that, you can get an inverter AC. If you still insist that you will get a inverter because you might use it more during weekend, compare the running amps between the brand and model you want. Another note, starting amp for inverter is always smaller.
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Jun 27 2012, 08:02 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
2,293 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
QUOTE(radver @ Jun 26 2012, 10:27 PM) I had the same dilemma last year when i was choosing air cond. So, ur current HOUSE PANASONIC is inverter or NOn - inverter ?What I was told by the air cond technician is that, unless you on the air cond for around 10 hrs or long periods of time, there is no difference between them. Because from what I understand, inverter saves electricity by maintaining the temperature through constantly cooling and running at low power. While non inverter air cond maintains the temperature by cooling it down to the desired level, stops cooling and will only start cooling again after the temperature rises to a certain level. This act of cooling and stopping takes up a lot of electricity, as more electricity is needed to restart the cooling as compared to running the cooling at low power continuously. Thats what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong... So if you're just using for your living room, there should be no need for an inverter. Plus the price difference between inverter and non inverter is not exactly small. As for brand, my recommendation would be PANASONIC. Its more expensive compare to the rest but each of them have lasted at least 10 yrs before breaking down and requiring extensive repair. When that time came, I just bought a new one... Currently for my house I bought 5 air cond, all PANASONIC. 3 unit 1.5 hp and 2 unit 1 hp. 2 unit 1.5 hp in the living room and 1 unit 1.5 hp in the master bedrooom. Electric bill stands at around RM200-300, no tampering of my power meter. My neighbor using dunno what brand, dunno how he use, he is complaining of paying RM800 a month. And please take note, normal house circuit only can take total 4 hp of air cond running at any one time. |
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Jun 27 2012, 09:18 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
2,301 posts Joined: Oct 2008 From: android#[me@linuxbox me]$ my_location |
usefull info, thanks for sharing, i m also think of inverter or non-inverter, since i will set auto off after 2-3hours, i think i better go for non inverter type
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Jun 27 2012, 09:47 AM
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#6
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Junior Member
427 posts Joined: Jul 2006 |
QUOTE(radver @ Jun 26 2012, 10:27 PM) Currently for my house I bought 5 air cond, all PANASONIC. 3 unit 1.5 hp and 2 unit 1 hp. 2 unit 1.5 hp in the living room and 1 unit 1.5 hp in the master bedrooom. Electric bill stands at around RM200-300, no tampering of my power meter. Do you actually switched on more than 3 a/cs every night from evening till next morning? If you are only running 1-2 a/cs then it's justifiable.My neighbor using dunno what brand, dunno how he use, he is complaining of paying RM800 a month. And please take note, normal house circuit only can take total 4 hp of air cond running at any one time. Your neighbour probably runs 3-4 a/cs simultaneously though. For my dad's house, he is running his a/c from 6pm till 5am, my youngest sis runs whole day (yes whole day) and my 2nd youngest sis runs her a/c from 6pm till 7am. Our bill is about 500-600 per mth. Plus of course there is about 8 ppl in the house, who uses water heater to shower as well. |
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Jun 27 2012, 11:50 AM
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#7
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Elite
5,736 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Shah Alam |
U'll see savings IF u set ~>25C above. if u constantly set <22C or below, it is as good as non inverter
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Jun 27 2012, 11:57 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
12,696 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(radver @ Jun 26 2012, 10:27 PM) I had the same dilemma last year when i was choosing air cond. The more correct way of saying is "Inverter air cond will save electricity IF there are frequent stop-start situation". What I was told by the air cond technician is that, unless you on the air cond for around 10 hrs or long periods of time, there is no difference between them. Because from what I understand, inverter saves electricity by maintaining the temperature through constantly cooling and running at low power. While non inverter air cond maintains the temperature by cooling it down to the desired level, stops cooling and will only start cooling again after the temperature rises to a certain level. This act of cooling and stopping takes up a lot of electricity, as more electricity is needed to restart the cooling as compared to running the cooling at low power continuously. Thats what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong... So if you're just using for your living room, there should be no need for an inverter. Plus the price difference between inverter and non inverter is not exactly small. As for brand, my recommendation would be PANASONIC. Its more expensive compare to the rest but each of them have lasted at least 10 yrs before breaking down and requiring extensive repair. When that time came, I just bought a new one... Currently for my house I bought 5 air cond, all PANASONIC. 3 unit 1.5 hp and 2 unit 1 hp. 2 unit 1.5 hp in the living room and 1 unit 1.5 hp in the master bedrooom. Electric bill stands at around RM200-300, no tampering of my power meter. My neighbor using dunno what brand, dunno how he use, he is complaining of paying RM800 a month. And please take note, normal house circuit only can take total 4 hp of air cond running at any one time. Example: 1. Tiny air cond in very big room. No stop-start situation so no saving. 2. Big air cond in small room. Frequent stop-start situation so save lots of electricity |
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Jun 27 2012, 12:28 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
1,244 posts Joined: Mar 2009 |
what bout problems face by both models in terms of spare parts if warranty is over?
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Jun 27 2012, 01:27 PM
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Senior Member
4,968 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
For inverter to be cheaper than the equivalent non inverter, it must fulfill a few condition:-
1.) Use more than 8 hours a day. Less than that the savings that you get cannot cover the difference in cost. 2.) 25-27c. If you go too low, the inverter will be at maximum power all the time and you will not get any benefits from it. 3.)Appropriately sized. Similar to above, if you use too small of a aircond , then it will be at maximum power all the time to cool your room and therefore no saving benefits. Generally people will use inverter for bedrooms and non inverters for living rooms. This post has been edited by Drian: Jun 27 2012, 01:29 PM |
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Jun 27 2012, 01:40 PM
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Senior Member
12,696 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(Drian @ Jun 27 2012, 01:27 PM) For inverter to be cheaper than the equivalent non inverter, it must fulfill a few condition:- Use more than 8 hours a day. Less than that the savings that you get cannot cover the difference in cost. If you do not fulfill condition 2 and 3 below, you can run it 24/7 continuously non-stop and still not save a single sen of electricity. In fact, you will actually spend 10% more on electricity compared to non-inverter because Inverter have to convert AC electricity to DC and there is a 10% lost. 2.) 25-27c. If you go too low, the inverter will be at maximum power all the time and you will not get any benefits from it. 3.)Appropriately sized. Similar to above, if you use too small of a aircond , then it will be at maximum power all the time to cool your room and therefore no saving benefits. Generally people will use inverter for bedrooms and non inverters for living rooms. |
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Jun 27 2012, 05:08 PM
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Senior Member
1,969 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: PJ |
honestly guys the blanket statements given just dont make a lot of sense.
1. inverter only saves at specific temp range. false: inverter saves WHENEVER its not used under full load. This is a huge difference. 2. appropriately sized: true inverter or not aircon must always be appropriately sized. otherwise it wont do any good. appropriate depends on your very specific cool requirement and the level of insulation and airexchange in your room. for a badly insulated room you might need 2 HP while for the same room and temp setting you only need 1 HP with good insulation. 3. Minimum hour of usage to save There is no minimum usage to save. You save from the first minute onwards (under non full load conditions). It's a question of breaking even. Since inverters are deemed to run with less stress on mechanics they should also last longer - how much i dont know. Guess is around 30-50% longer lifespan. since the inverter costs you around 30-40% more vs. the same model non-inverter you already break even on the lifespan savings. any additional savings will be from using less power. so wether you use 24/7 or just 3hrs per day - you still save power. |
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Jun 27 2012, 05:57 PM
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Senior Member
919 posts Joined: Oct 2009 |
QUOTE(PJusa @ Jun 27 2012, 05:08 PM) honestly guys the blanket statements given just dont make a lot of sense. Bro, you sure about this? Any creditable source to support?1. inverter only saves at specific temp range. false: inverter saves WHENEVER its not used under full load. This is a huge difference. 2. appropriately sized: true inverter or not aircon must always be appropriately sized. otherwise it wont do any good. appropriate depends on your very specific cool requirement and the level of insulation and airexchange in your room. for a badly insulated room you might need 2 HP while for the same room and temp setting you only need 1 HP with good insulation. 3. Minimum hour of usage to save There is no minimum usage to save. You save from the first minute onwards (under non full load conditions). It's a question of breaking even. Since inverters are deemed to run with less stress on mechanics they should also last longer - how much i dont know. Guess is around 30-50% longer lifespan. since the inverter costs you around 30-40% more vs. the same model non-inverter you already break even on the lifespan savings. any additional savings will be from using less power. so wether you use 24/7 or just 3hrs per day - you still save power. |
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Jun 27 2012, 06:39 PM
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Senior Member
4,968 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(PJusa @ Jun 27 2012, 05:08 PM) honestly guys the blanket statements given just dont make a lot of sense. For number 1, it is correct as the inverter will not be operating under full load, because it is at a specific temperature range. Whether or not the inverter is operating at full load is a function of temperature.1. inverter only saves at specific temp range. false: inverter saves WHENEVER its not used under full load. This is a huge difference. 2. appropriately sized: true inverter or not aircon must always be appropriately sized. otherwise it wont do any good. appropriate depends on your very specific cool requirement and the level of insulation and airexchange in your room. for a badly insulated room you might need 2 HP while for the same room and temp setting you only need 1 HP with good insulation. 3. Minimum hour of usage to save There is no minimum usage to save. You save from the first minute onwards (under non full load conditions). It's a question of breaking even. Since inverters are deemed to run with less stress on mechanics they should also last longer - how much i dont know. Guess is around 30-50% longer lifespan. since the inverter costs you around 30-40% more vs. the same model non-inverter you already break even on the lifespan savings. any additional savings will be from using less power. so wether you use 24/7 or just 3hrs per day - you still save power. Also since the inverter itself has a efficency of say 90-92%. You probably need less than 90% load for inverter to outperform the non-inverter in efficiency. For number 3, it is true that the compressor should last longer due to reduced stress to the mechanical parts. However you still have an extra inverter(which is basically an AC -DC converter) which comes with the PCB board and supporting circuitry, and that is more prone to failure. |
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Jun 27 2012, 07:13 PM
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Senior Member
12,696 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
No need for lengthy write-up. Just have to remember 1 thing. Inverter ONLY save money when there are stop-start situation. 1. The more often the stop-start situation, the more money saved. 2. If there are no stop-start situation, zero money saved. In fact, more money spend. silversuave liked this post
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Jun 27 2012, 09:56 PM
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All Stars
16,546 posts Joined: Jan 2005 |
QUOTE(helven @ Jun 27 2012, 05:57 PM) Here my actual experience. First aircon is panasonic non inverter 1hp using 8hr for sleep. Bill average rm110. Run about 8-9yrs before it finally spoil. Replace a new Panasonic inverter 1.5hp. Same usage. Bill cost me average rm70. Already running 5yrs till now. First yrs already get back my return compare non inverter. Base on the last time bill and current bill. 5yrs now I already save rm2400. The save Can use for service the aircon many many time. No matter how many hr using, it still save. Long or short. Sometime I find you guy are very slow to adopt the technology which is already more than 10yrs old. And still undecided it now. |
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Jun 27 2012, 11:03 PM
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Senior Member
12,696 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(ozak @ Jun 27 2012, 09:56 PM) Here my actual experience. First aircon is panasonic non inverter 1hp using 8hr for sleep. Bill average rm110. Run about 8-9yrs before it finally spoil. You tell us how big the room etc. For what you described to be possible, your air cond must be big enough for the room. Tiny air cond in big room not possibleReplace a new Panasonic inverter 1.5hp. Same usage. Bill cost me average rm70. Already running 5yrs till now. First yrs already get back my return compare non inverter. Base on the last time bill and current bill. 5yrs now I already save rm2400. The save Can use for service the aircon many many time. No matter how many hr using, it still save. Long or short. Sometime I find you guy are very slow to adopt the technology which is already more than 10yrs old. And still undecided it now. |
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Jun 28 2012, 12:32 AM
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Senior Member
1,376 posts Joined: Jan 2011 |
QUOTE(PJusa @ Jun 27 2012, 05:08 PM) honestly guys the blanket statements given just dont make a lot of sense. Inverter starts at full load to achieve set temperature, get the room into stable condition as soon as possible. That is why the room cools down faster with inverter.1. inverter only saves at specific temp range. false: inverter saves WHENEVER its not used under full load. This is a huge difference. 2. appropriately sized: true inverter or not aircon must always be appropriately sized. otherwise it wont do any good. appropriate depends on your very specific cool requirement and the level of insulation and airexchange in your room. for a badly insulated room you might need 2 HP while for the same room and temp setting you only need 1 HP with good insulation. 3. Minimum hour of usage to save There is no minimum usage to save. You save from the first minute onwards (under non full load conditions). It's a question of breaking even. Since inverters are deemed to run with less stress on mechanics they should also last longer - how much i dont know. Guess is around 30-50% longer lifespan. since the inverter costs you around 30-40% more vs. the same model non-inverter you already break even on the lifespan savings. any additional savings will be from using less power. so wether you use 24/7 or just 3hrs per day - you still save power. |
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Jun 28 2012, 12:41 AM
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All Stars
16,546 posts Joined: Jan 2005 |
QUOTE(Optiplex330 @ Jun 27 2012, 11:03 PM) You tell us how big the room etc. For what you described to be possible, your air cond must be big enough for the room. Tiny air cond in big room not possible My room is about 180ft2. One thing I learn is, size the aircon according to the room size. Not your wallet size. |
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Jun 28 2012, 06:39 AM
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Senior Member
12,696 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(ozak @ Jun 28 2012, 12:41 AM) My room is about 180ft2. Assuming your ceiling is 9 ft, that means the room's volume is 1620 cubic ft. That requires an air cond of about 9720 btu. Your air cond is 13000btu. Your air cond is actually much bigger than the requirement. In situation like this, there will be VERY frequent stop-start operation. So you are guaranteed to save money by installing an inverter.One thing I learn is, size the aircon according to the room size. Not your wallet size. Just remember one thing: Inverter ONLY save money if there are stop-start operation. Period. |
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