
English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Bye Dirk Kuyt!
English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Bye Dirk Kuyt!
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May 21 2012, 02:26 AM
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#61
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23 posts Joined: Sep 2011 From: Behind the computer screen. |
Sign him up sign him up sing him up
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May 21 2012, 09:05 AM
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#62
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23 posts Joined: Sep 2011 From: Behind the computer screen. |
Hate to say it but if he will be the old Torres back and improve the team, I will.
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May 21 2012, 11:13 PM
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#63
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This thread is so active ... i go away for a few hours and there are so many new pages.
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May 22 2012, 12:57 AM
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#64
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QUOTE(vcj1992 @ May 22 2012, 12:46 AM) Thanks a lot for the videos. How I missed the time when we had Mascherano, Alonso, Benayoun with Torres. Don't forget Sissoko, Crouch, Riera etc too. Liverpool was such a good team, we were.. Tell me about it ... Alonso, Mascherano, Torres .. we "kinda" made them Why did it have to come down to this :'( we honestly look like we are decades from Chelsea, Man City, Man United and Arsenal even though we've managed to get results against them. |
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May 22 2012, 06:53 AM
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#65
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QUOTE(vcj1992 @ May 22 2012, 01:22 AM) True man.. Things started to fall apart when we sold Alonso in 2009, without a proper replacement for him. We could have challenged the Premier League properly in 2009-2010 considering how strong the team performed the season before, we just needed some improvement in squad strength, but instead we sold one of the best players in the squad.. But we can't expect players to stay here forever, no matter how good they are Players come and go, transfers happen in football and we just have to look forward. Imagine if Kevin Keegan didn't leave Liverpool for Hamburg ... we probably won't see King Kenny at Liverpool. |
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May 22 2012, 05:32 PM
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#66
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I think what Dalglish is trying to say is .. instead of dwelling on his sacking just because he's a club legend, he prefers us to channel our emotions to support the next manager.
Oh btw, I bought the new Liverpool kit with his name on it, lol. And Rush 9 for my friend. Now only need Hansen and Barnes to make a futsal team LOL |
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May 22 2012, 05:56 PM
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#67
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May 22 2012, 06:14 PM
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#68
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QUOTE(PPZ @ May 22 2012, 06:04 PM) it will be wasted to have both of them and not use them. imagine both can play AM and wing. Very good indeed. But I think it's always going to be difficult to fit them in ..Like I don't think Joe Cole is good when played on the right or left of midfield unless he's right/left in a 4-3-3 but I remember watching him do well in the hole behind a striker. But that's also the same position most people want Gerrard to play in. As for Aquilani, i never understood why he wasn't given a chance. I think he's a very creative player, full of flair. I know he came from the Italian league and the Premier League may be too physical and that he doesn't tackle enough but as long as he's offering some things attacking-wise, i don't see a problem. But there were rumours he doesn't want to play in England so I'm not sure .. Both still probably better than what we have, though. |
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May 22 2012, 07:16 PM
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#69
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http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news...fc-barca-future
Very good interview and exactly how I feel when I mentioned the Barca philosophy and all. Digger makes alot of very good points and I whole heartedly agree with him. "You have constant change and if you have constant change, there's no continuity and no stability." Both the club and the supporters are going to need to be patient while things develop - because if it was an easy quick fix, everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? Barnes: There needs to be a lot of patience - both in the boardrooms and in the stands. How long will it take? It will take a long time but it won't take as long as Liverpool fans have been waiting to see the team win the Premier League. So, yes it could take a long time to develop it and start reaping the benefits from it but maybe if a system was put in place 20 years ago, we wouldn't still be waiting to win our first title since 1990. If we keep changing the manager, the players or the system every one, two, three or four years, we could be waiting another 20 years to win the title too. |
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May 22 2012, 07:28 PM
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#70
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May 22 2012, 07:43 PM
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#71
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QUOTE(Petre @ May 22 2012, 07:34 PM) no one can be sure whether KD will eventually bring liverpool back to the heights if he stayed for a few more years, although the same can be said about the opposite. in the end, the owners had only one thing in mind - success. if money is the motivation, the it will be the small trophy that comes with it. i dont see how its a losing situation for the club. Yup, we certainly can't but like I said, if we're going to give someone like Martinez 30 million to spend in his first season, it would have been better to give it to Kenny for him to continue his rebuilding.i understand there are a large number of fans who are more sentimental towards the liverpool way etc. even if the owners cannot understand or embrace the liverpool spirit, we, the fans, should never forget it is we who are supposed to uphold the spirit. the club has always been in our hands and hearts, and so it shall be no matter what happens. I have no problems with him getting sacked. While I was willing to give him one more season (well, come on, we reached 2 finals so we can play when we want), i'll support the new manager and hope he does better. I'm not sure if being sentimental and maintaining the Liverpool way will win us anything in short term but I guess it's a price we may have to pay for instant success but I quite like how the FC Barcelona club is run. Philosophy, Barca way whatver you want to call it, from top to bottom, manager to players, first team to under 8 and it has reap rewards and will continue, IMO. And it took 20 years or so to build. |
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May 22 2012, 07:50 PM
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#72
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QUOTE(Burningsunz @ May 22 2012, 07:46 PM) the problem is FSG have instant success with boston red sox after he fired the manager after a poor season.. Yeah they did but I am not sure if the same method can exactly be applied to football unless they are prepared to spend money like Manchester City. Even so, it took Man City three or so years to even qualify for the Champions League, let alone with the Premier League on goal difference.Worst case scenario is, let's say new manager doesn't finish top 4 .. do we also sack him and start over again? :/ |
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May 22 2012, 07:58 PM
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#73
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QUOTE(Burningsunz @ May 22 2012, 07:55 PM) we take boston red sox as an example because i believe FSG apply the same philosophy, after FSG managed to get a new manager in boston they wont the world series 2 years in a row, but the following year they failed to reach the playoff, and then what happen? FSG sack the manager =.= .. the problem with them is they wan instant success and they need the manager to win champions league every year, for me i believe champions league is FSG aiming for and i dun think league title would save our new manager. Yeah, that's why I said they will need to be prepared to be investing 50-100 million everytime they bring in a new manager (who happens to have a different football system and philosophy) because he would wnat his own players and all that, as opposed to, let's say, a manager for a long term who probably only needs 30 million each season to add to his already-built system. |
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May 22 2012, 08:05 PM
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#74
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QUOTE(maranello55 @ May 22 2012, 07:59 PM) My Dalglish shirt total with name, number and patches is 49 pounds (RM 245) and the Rush shirt is slightly cheaper cause less letters. Still cheaper than buying for RM 259(?) in Malaysia with no name, number or patches.It gets released on 1st of June so I guess the shirt should arrive one or two days after ... QUOTE(Burningsunz @ May 22 2012, 08:01 PM) but i get a feeling that the next manager who comes in will not have any power in buying and selling players Yeah and apparently .. I heard they wanted young players will full of potential - hence Henderson, Coates, Suarez and Carroll .. but then sack the manager when he doesn't deliver?I'm not sure, but maybe it isn't true. And yeah, no power, definitely not the job Rafa Benitez would take. |
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May 22 2012, 08:12 PM
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#75
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May 22 2012, 11:14 PM
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#76
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QUOTE(koolspyda @ May 22 2012, 08:40 PM) Forget Rafa.. Yup but I don't really know how Capello and Low work but as for Guardiola .. we know he comes from the Barca academy, he was brought up the Barca way, he learnt from Barca philosophers and he's continuing it. As I said, we can be similar to them by raising, grooming and continuing the Liverpool way. And considering Liverpool's pass and move is somewhat similar to Barcelona/Spain/Ajax tiki taka, Guardiola is almost just doing what he does best, in another country. As for Mourinho, I think he wouldn't work under owners with contraints. Same for Rafa .. rememnber .. "I asked for a sofa and they bought me a standard lamp".How about mourino, josep guardiola, capello, joachim low as some of our forumers most ideal replacement for Dalglish?? QUOTE(leftist @ May 22 2012, 09:17 PM) the best part for me when he talks bout barca philosophy...where world class player not necessarily suitable to the philosophy & he takes Seydou Keita as an example..I think right now liverpool try to emulate that but it will take years to see the result Yes .. and with Rodolfo Borrell doing his stuff with the youth team, we're probably 1/10th of the way there! LOL the youth team finished 2nd in the league and reached the last four of Next Gen series .. which I think is a very good return. And let's not forget the likes of Kelly, Flanagan, Robinson, Spearing, Shelvey (even though he was bought) and Sterling have played in the first team.Like you and John said .. it's not about big name players. It's about how players fit into the system and balances the team. That's why we've seen the likes of Riera, Garcia, Riise, Hamann and even Benayoun playing pretty well for us even though they are not in Alonso, Gerrard or Torres mould at that time, QUOTE(Duke Red @ May 22 2012, 10:14 PM) A long but good read as well. The reason I keep talking about Man Utd is because they have a great system in place which enables them to play almost anyone in the team. They keep losing star players over the years but they keep winning. I seldom get drawn into talks of which player to buy simply because I think it's more important to focus on what type of football we want to play. It isn't about buying the biggest names in the world but rather the right type of player for our brand of football. A system, takes time to implement. Wenger is the other manager who managed to transform a dull Arsenal side into one of the most exciting teams to watch. Barnes also talks about formations. I think fans are sometimes guilty of taking formations too literally. A 4-5-1 doesn't necessarily indicate a defensive formation. It can easily morph into a 4-3-3 when going forward if you pay attention during matches. Rafa favoured the 4-5-1 and when he was at Valencia, Mista was top scorer one season because although it appeared on paper that he was the lone striker, he had support from the likes of Aimar who would almost play alongside him going forward, and also Vicente and Rufete. Formations don't exactly matter. It's how the players in that formation make it work that matters. |
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May 23 2012, 07:52 PM
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#77
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I think it would be suicidal if Rafa gets a job here but is not the manager's job. He's a manager and as long as he plays a part in the club, he will continue to work like one, which we do not one.
If it's between AvB or Martinez .. I'm not exactly sure but I may slightly edge towards Martinez. Not because I don't rate AVB, I really do and I was impressed by his football philosophy and all that. The only problem for me is .. he's never been a player. Again, not solely because of that because we know great players don't make great managers and poor players can make great managers. The issue for me is when he deals with player situation. I'm not sure if he having very little or no experience as a player would help him whereas Martinez has played alot of professional football and he can know what his players go through. For example, I read the Barca book and i remember there was that issue of Messi between Barcelona and Argentina when he was called for the Olympics in Beijing in 2008. There was that thing .. if he plays, what if he got injured, bla bla bla, the cost bla bla bla, commitments and contract to Barca bla bla bla. But Messi wanted to play but I think majority of Barcelona fans/board/staff did not want him to, eventhough I think Messi wanted to. Pep Guardiola just turned manager then and what did he do? He used the same experience he had back in the 1990 Olympics when he was a 21 year old for Spain. He went against he majority and told Messi to go play as Pep also went for the tournament 20 years ago. The result? Pep won the gold medal at the Olympics. Messi won the gold medal with Argentina. And Barcelona won the sextuplet in 2008/2009. It's minor details like that, that makes the difference. |
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May 24 2012, 08:17 AM
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#78
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A prized possession
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May 24 2012, 05:06 PM
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#79
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QUOTE(jackjack1988 @ May 24 2012, 10:22 AM) It was around RM 350 .. yeah .. and because the away kit is so nice .. had to buy a real one hahahaQUOTE(edwinsan84 @ May 24 2012, 11:05 AM) Well, I got it from ebay :/ but I guess the person must have bought it from kitbag or something..QUOTE(Duke Red @ May 24 2012, 11:30 AM) To be honest I think this whole "English players are crap" stigma is going beyond reason. Whether we made the wrong decision to buy Caroll and Henderson remains to be seen I feel. Henderson has been crap I must admit but he's just on the verge of turning 22. Carroll is a year older and has shown promise in the latter stages of the season. Downing is a mystery. It's more a case of buying the wrong English players but how much would the likes of Lennon, Walcott, Milner, A.Johnson have cost? Consider also the wages they are on. Yes we did splurge on Carroll but does he earn more than any of the four names I mentioned? I really don't know but we do have a wage cap of sorts now. From what I've read, it rose from $20,000 to $70,000 when he joined from Newcastle. Aaron Lennon reputedly earns around $72,500. James Milner is said to earn in excess of $100,000 a week, same as Adam Johnson. So the fault may be in buying English in view of the HG rule, but in terms of which English players to buy, we weren't spoilt for choice. I agree with everything.Having said all that, I refer back I've been saying much earlier about building a system of play rather than concentrating on which big name to buy, whatever the nationality. Given a salary cap, finding good international talent isn't easy either considering that foreign players have the option of staying in their own league and although they earn less, they pay less taxes. Why are salaries so high in England? Because taxes are around %50. How much would we need to play a top player like Mata in comparison to Downing? Suarez was a gamble that paid off. He wasn't on the A list of players mentioned but he's turned out to be a gem. However for every gem, there is a lump of coal. Look at all the failed foreign players we've signed over the years. Traore, Cheyrou, Biscan, Camara, Nunez, Josemi, Krompkamp, Song, Diao, Diouf, Baros, Cisse, Morientes, the list is longer than failed English players. Unfortunately, the new gaffer, just like Kenny, won't be afforded the time to implement such a system. He won't have time to try and test it. It will either work or it won't. Fergie uses English and British players, he always has been. Gary Neville, Wes Brown, David Beckham, Darren Fletcher, John O'Shea, Wayne Rooney, Danny Welbeck, Johnny Evans, Phil Jones, Ryan Giggs, Rio Ferdinand just to name a few. Half of these blokes would look average in our side but because he's been given the time to develop a method of play, the team looks good despite losing big names. This is what I would like for us to strive and emulate hence my constant call for patience. Unfortunately however, time isn't something we have anymore. I also don't think Kenny expected the season to turn out like that. He probably tried the safer route of signing players who have played in the Premiership, rather than opt for foreigners who hasn't. Sadly for him and us, it doesn't work that way anymore. We've seen Premiership proven players fail when they move between Premier League clubs and we have seen foreigners take the league by storm. Something is just wrong with our team .. maybe it's the mentality because can anyone honestly say John O'Shea, Wes Brown, Danny Welbeck are actually better than some players we have? I don't really think so but because they are put into a winning team like Man United .. they kinda look better than they really are. And I don't really think prices matter anymore. It's not a fair comparison to the players about 7-8 years ago. Yes, we "overpaid" for Henderson, Carroll and Downing but that's thanks to City, United, Real and Chelsea inflating player prices. Also, why do our "20 mil kid, 35 mil striker and 20 mil winger" get mentioned time and time again when there are easily other money wasted in the league - De Gea (20 mil for a non British player!), Phil Jones (can you actually say he's worth as much as Henderson?) or Lukaku (20 mil bench warmer?). Yes, we had a crap season but it doesn't mean other players who are in a good team has to escape criticism. QUOTE(vcj1992 @ May 24 2012, 04:10 PM) http://www.koptalk.co.uk/201204214418/Live...rt-downing.html Well .. it's Kraptalk!!" Reports today claim that Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish turned down the opportunity to sign Juan Mata in favour of Stewart Downing purely because he was British. *Sources close to former Reds director of football Damien Comolli claim that the Frenchman was frustrated at Dalglish's insistence on chasing British players rather than foreign imports that can often be more cost effective. One report today claims: 'Comolli feels that the American owners and manager Kenny Dalglish pushed him towards a transfer policy of targeting young British players even though he advised them that there was more value for money abroad. 'For example, Comolli is believed to have been extremely interested in signing Juan Mata last summer from Valencia and received encouragement from the Spaniard's representatives. Dalglish was not so keen and the Reds instead signed an expensive compromise in Stewart Downing from Aston Villa for £20 million.' During that transfer window, KOPTALK continually maintained that Mata was up for a move to Anfield and that his father had met and spoken with the Reds on several occasions. Juan Mata Senior - who is also the player's agent - had commented how his son was in awe of Liverpool's history and status as one of the biggest clubs in Europe. Despite big-money offers from other clubs, we believe Liverpool had a real chance of signing the player, which is why we were adamant about our chances. * When reports say 'sources close to..', this is often actually the person at the centre of such reports who is commenting off-the-record. In this case for example, this could be Comolli himself, although there is nothing to suggest that is the case." Seems like Mata was keen on joining us as well. Of course these are just rumours and we can't 100% believe it but if it's true, We missed a big player, one that is MUCH better than Downing. He could have been the star for us. Anyway, I hope this is not true. This post has been edited by Adryan: May 24 2012, 05:11 PM |
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May 24 2012, 06:24 PM
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#80
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QUOTE(pingpang @ May 24 2012, 05:24 PM) Totally agreed with the above comments. The reason we may not see Liverpool have this system is because the manager is never given time.Whoever is in charge of the Reds should implement a system like what SAF has done for ManU, or PG for Barcelona. The players in these 2 clubs play according to their "system" and if without the key players, the back-up players also can filled the void. I do not see the Reds play in such a way. But right now, the academy looks strong with Sterling, Kelly, Flanagan, Robinson and Spearing already playing for first team. There's still Suso, Wisdom, Coady, Roberts to name a few. Hopefully these guys can also make their way to the first team. Then we have to keep this going for continuity. Hopefully the new manager comes in and see this the same way but not many managers are like that. Pep Guadiola would be one of them but he's never going to come here, not this season at least. Rafa Benitez has done a great job in revamping the academy before he left. |
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