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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Bye Dirk Kuyt!

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Adryan
post May 18 2012, 09:16 PM

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Current links ..

Rafael Benitez
Andre Villas-Boas
Jurgen Klopp
Roberto Martinez
Joachim Low
Didier Deschamps
Frank Rijkaard
Brendan Rodgers
Fabio Capello

Also got Pep Guardiola but I don't think that's concrete enough and he has stated he will take a year off.

But I'd love Guardiola wink.gif but one can only dream.
Adryan
post May 18 2012, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(demio121 @ May 18 2012, 09:20 PM)
what Ayre said is scary but its how football club is run today.  we are all very proud of our history but sumtime I feel our history is also our biggest enemy.

value and tradition reminds us of who we are but can only carry us so far.  anything these days are about money.  When KD came back as interim, a part of our proud history came back.  That mere presence of kenny have lifted the club.  Evidence shown that history can only take us so far, in this case lift us back to 6th place.  beyond that, we equal our worst finish in EPL.  the magic of KD is lost this past season.  Then, either u agree or not, KD have to face the modern game reality.... every investment needs to show ROI.

I do not think any LFC fan will leave KD to walk alone.  What is happening now is some of us question his 2nd return.  That's all.  i hv never agree to KD taking fulltime.  KD carry with him a history that can divide the club.  Section of supporters is turning against FSG for KD departure.  We would have been in administration or worst, in the hand of Peter Lim.  I don't know how turn is this but he also own the Manu theme chain restaurant Red Cafe in Asia.  In another word, we turn against our saviour, blinded by our sentiment.

Rafa and Roy leaving did not polarize us so much.  This last season have shown we can turn against among ourselves when discussing about KD.  Names been used, we categorized fans.  This again, is our history being our biggest enemy.

remember the history.  remind ourselves who we are everyday (if you have to).  why we didnt gv Roy a 6mth chance?
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Why we didn't give Roy more than 6 months?

Because he insulted the fans, he insulted players, he was happy with a point, never defended the players, kiss assed to Ferguson and idea of a great European away win is Trabzonspor. And seriously? Paul Konchesy? Christian Poulsen? On top of that, we played the eye painful football I've never seen Liverpool FC play.

I'm not saying Kenny SHOULD be manager but I was willing to give him a chance of another season after what he has done and what he has shown he is capable of doing. True the sport has change but sadly, it's not all about football anymore.

We also won't know if FSG made the right decision and that remains to be seen as only time will tell but sometimes, maybe the things which we don't entirely agree with could be the best decision of all.

Maybe we need to throw away most of the things the club stands for, maybe we need a manager to start putting some fear into the FA and officials like Ferguson. Maybe some fans would like that because we may just be successful.

Throwing away what the club stands for .. perhaps the price to pay for glory?

Who's recruiting who? lol

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This post has been edited by Adryan: May 18 2012, 09:34 PM
Adryan
post May 18 2012, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(demio121 @ May 18 2012, 10:04 PM)
I am speaking in the context of the fan. how KD departure have polarize us.

True Roy time was painful but if we stand by YNWA, we shouldnt hv turn against Roy.  its sumthing against what we stand for.  Anfield is our fortress.  the last 6mths, rival have come and beat us in Anfield more often than before.  2011/2012 is one of our worst home record.  in a way (with no disrespect), KD turn our home into a happy hunting ground for our rival.  can i call this disrespecting Anfield?  this is individual opinion.  is this worst than Roy insulting fan? again this is individual opinion.

we spend so much in transfer yet can we say they are better than Konchesky and Poulsen?  we didnt we gv both of them another chance.

again, i am still in the context of fans.  what KD have done is for the club is 20 years ago.  If we say he deserve another chance for what he done 20 years ago, its using history as reason.  He have not manage a club the past 10 years.  So much have change in the past 10 to 20 years.  we can say KD know LFC so well he is the right person to lead us fwd.  the LFC KD know so well and manage so succesfully is 20 years ago.  a club as it is 20 years ago just don't fit into todays environment.  Moores and Parry run the club like the 80s and we got nowhere.  we stay with Carlsberg for, i think 18 years.  Until Std Chart come, we didnt know that we could have make so much more just by changing the title sponsor on our shirt.

we don't have to throw our value and heritage away chasing glory.  we value our history.  we remember our value but at the same time, we need to adapt to move fwd.

Again, i am saying KD departure i believe is not just because we finish 8th.  A lot that happen this season could have been better and FSG just want a new direction.
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You're right but the thing is most Liverpool fans didn't agree with Roy Hodgson but they were willing to give him a chance (myself included) but how can you have respect for a man who disrespected your club, tradition and even past managers? Also, when Roy came back, even though we lost to WBA, I read that the fans showed their class by not booing him or anything.

Why should Poulsen and Konchesky deserve another chance? They were nowhere near Liverpool standard and it was abysmal they were even signed. At least there was some sense in the signings of Henderson, Carroll, Adam and Downing but it just didn't turn out the way everyone had hoped for. At least Henderson doesn't put his teammates in dreadful situations like Poulsen. Adam wasn't great defensively but he put his shift in on the other side, same can't be said about Poulsen. Enrique wayyyyyy better than Konchesky evne though his form dipped at the turn of the year.

Again, I'm not saying Kenny is the right man but the reasons for keeping him are much better than the reasons of bringing someone like Roy. Kenny may have been out of managing for a long time but he was at Anfield almost every single game evne if he wasn't manager so he could see the sport has changed. Also still remains to be the other manager other than Ancelotti, Mourinho, Ferguson and Wenger to win the Premier League.

I entirely agree with your things about FSG and his departure and all but as I said, it still remains to be seen. Because if we're going to give Martinez the rumoured 30 million kitty, that's not enough to even replace Kuyt, Bellamy and Maxi, let alone strengthen the squad. And if we're hoping for a new manager to create and start afresh, we might as well be better off giving Kenny the 30 million to continue building.

Having said that, Kenny may not have been FSG's choice all along. They only offered him a contract because he did a decent job when he took over.


QUOTE(undentifyxd @ May 18 2012, 09:52 PM)
as an arsenal fan im gonna say plz dont get Rafael benitez he was good before but he also the reason why LFC no longer in CL

dont go backward
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Well Rafa made Liverpool top ranked in Europe during his time and also qualified for Champions Leauge in 4 (06/07, 07/08, 08/09, 09/10) of his 6 years.

The downfall is not because of Rafa.

But it doesn't mean I think Rafa should be brought back. I'm still unsure.

QUOTE(Ichighost @ May 18 2012, 10:04 PM)
i think failure to replace Xavi Alonso is the key point for Liverpool..

btw now..form a chelsea fan.. icon_rolleyes.gif  laugh.gif
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Xavi Alonso? Who? tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Adryan: May 18 2012, 10:18 PM
Adryan
post May 18 2012, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 18 2012, 10:56 PM)
Kenny won the PL with a Alan Shearer led Blackburn team in the 94-95 season...but we can now add Mancini to that list  rclxms.gif
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OH YEAH!! I forgotten about Mancini xD hahaha too recent!

QUOTE(demio121 @ May 18 2012, 10:58 PM)
ah yea.... i alway remember KD with LFC only.  dun remember balckburn at all.  my bad.
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Well .. actually so do I. I hardly associate Kenny, Rush, Barnes with Newcastle even!!! But no worries la .. I can completely understand where you are coming from.

QUOTE(Ichighost @ May 18 2012, 11:02 PM)
yes..sorry about that mistake..my bad..but it is true.. smile.gif
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Chill la. Messing only tongue.gif but yeah, haven't replaced Alonso and it's not even easy to find a replacement! Not many of his kind around.
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 12:03 AM

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I don't think Brendan Rogers rejecting Liverpool is embarassing.

Maybe he just wants to continue building what he has started at Swansea or maybe he thinks moving to Liverpool is a big step forward for him which he isn't ready.

Or .. everyone is just not into the sacking manager if you don't finish top 4!
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 19 2012, 12:05 AM)
Apparently LFC twitter asked a question who fans wanted as new manager.

Got bombarded for it and they took it down and said people misunderstood.
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Was a stupid decision to put that seeing they have like 900k followers or something. And kinda disrespectful to the man who just left.
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 02:33 AM

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QUOTE(MHAffendi @ May 19 2012, 01:15 AM)
I think bringing Rafa will not improve the team further. Most of the players he brings in are flops and then resell back for a much lower value. He won the CL last time using the players that Gerard Houlier bought smile.gif

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Alonso, Agger, Arbeloa, Skrtel, Torres, Mascherano, Lucas, Garcia, Reina, Crouch, Kuyt, Benayoun, Sissoko .. all these guys turned out to be great players and all bought for pretty decent prices and sold for bigger amounts.

Furthermore, he made Gerrard and Carragher better players.

Have you ever thought of the fact that why alot of signings in his last few years were "average"?

Hicks and Gillett is your answer.

Rafa Benitez worked under difficult constraints and what he achieved here, he over achieved. Four finals in his first 3 years is remarkable.
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 07:45 AM

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Another one?

Thought it was Martinez and Villas-Boas picking up pace.
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 05:31 PM

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I think you have to take off your hats for Brendan Rodgers and Jurgen Klopp because they would rather continue working on what they have been building, rather than take a chance just because Liverpool is calling.

Anyways, pre-ordered three of the new kits for 130 bucks!!!
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(etseleste @ May 19 2012, 05:36 PM)
RM 130 ????? SO cheap???? where? i'm about to order and its RM 245
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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ May 19 2012, 05:39 PM)
yawn.gif 130 is cheap! where did you get that?
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It's 130 pounds :/ for three.

At the moment sportsdirect.com has the shirt at 37 pounds (about RM185) and thats the cheapest I have seen but it isn't worth it to send to Malaysia I think.
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(cksoon @ May 19 2012, 06:00 PM)
It's not about the record... it's somehow, you'll feel he may not be the right person.. he doesn't suit in. Just like for KD, we knew it's a fantasy, but if you asked me, it's a shame sacking him, given another chance, maybe give him a running contract earlier, and if things don't work out, appoint him as ambassador again would be good. afterall, he's a legend and it's not he's not good, but times have changed.. modern football
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Spot on.

It's not an easy decision for FSG to make because choose the wrong man and if he fails to deliver the results by Christmas, you'll see fans singing for Rafa's name again and it isn't good.

I don't know if someone like AvB or Martinez would be good because they have to earn the respect of the players. We don't want to see what AvB sufferred at Chelsea here.

We need a manager that the players know is boss - Rafa, Guardiola (dream on!) or Capello even.

As for me, I can't say who I want to be manager because I don't really know who is suitable after taking into account all factors but I will back the manager 100% regardless who it is unless they are as retarded as Roy Hodgson.
Adryan
post May 19 2012, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ May 19 2012, 08:30 PM)
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news...en-to-top-stars
"It's about the football club. We are talking about going forward, not going backwards."

The owner didn't see King Kenny could bring the club forward.
Or the owner saw the club moving backward.

It is something uncalled-for to discredit the owner.
King Kenny needed to do himself justice. The club owner needed justifications.
King Kenny accepted the decision.
What does that imply? KK knew very well he didn't deliver results.
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I heard King Kenny flew to the USA to talk with the owners. They offered him to go upstairs but he refused as he believed he can still take the club forward but they didn't agree, hence the sack.

If Kenny knew very well the club isn't going forward with him, he would have stepped down.

Told them to even keep his pay off fees and use it on transfers instead.

Adryan
post May 20 2012, 12:01 AM

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QUOTE(Petre @ May 19 2012, 11:59 PM)
no ill intentions but i read that since its not officially documented somebody suggest that this is just speculation. but anyway, we never know until some believable source confirms it
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True but it was kinda picking up speed and there's no way people will announce that either way but Kenny being Kenny .. I wouldn't be surprise.

Apparently isn't true as well but Kenny will always be a class act.
Adryan
post May 20 2012, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(rushmode @ May 20 2012, 12:05 AM)
Pep never been tested to work with a less talented team before so it can be say he is unproven. That barca team he managed is a team out of this world. I doubt he can be succesful with a lesser team.

FSG need to appoint manager fast so the new guy will have time to gather his backroom team and layout a plan. With euro coming up player price will be inflated
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True but the trick is, he will sort of bring continuity to the club, rather then a fresh approach. He's philosophy of football can be said to be almost similar because both Barcelona and Liverpool USED to play the same kind of style in the past, both want to have a very good academy, both are more than just a club (Mes que un club) to the fans.

And the fact that Barcelona consists of players and staff that have the same philosophy has brought them alot of rewards. The same way it did under Shankly, Paisley and Kenny.

There were rumours he was looking for houses around Liverpool but I'm sure they are just rumours. Also, his brother is the agent of Luis Suarez .. so he's not exactly unattached!

Anyways, apparently, some people state that it wasn't the failure of 4th spot that got Kenny the sack, but the Suarez incident also played a huge part.

If that is true, we'll likely to see the departure of Luis Suarez in the near future. sad.gif

Adryan
post May 20 2012, 01:01 AM

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I'm starting not to mind the possibility of AvB.

Maybe he's suited to Liverpool's style. His Chelsea tenure doesn't do him any favours, though but we don't have players like Chelsea's in terms of attitutes and personalities.

I'd very much like those in the Rafa Benitez, Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti or so level but I'd take AvB over Martinez and Rodgers (ruled himself out anyway).
Adryan
post May 20 2012, 07:21 AM

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To everyone who wanted 4th place .. well, it means nothing.

If we want Champions League, we have to aim for 1st tongue.gif
Adryan
post May 20 2012, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(koolspyda @ May 20 2012, 07:41 AM)
everyone said bayern played/turn up & bossed chelsea. TO me chelsea was the smarter one. They after all have entered into bayern's lion's den where they (BM) have not been beaten a lot at home, hardly conceded in open play against many oppositions.

To me all bayern did was showing up with tooth pick to poke chelsea whole night, instead of swords, dominating a lot yes, with puszy roar actually.  rclxub.gif true chelsea did ride their luck but they have done enough to frustrate BM.

Overall, bayern played rubbish. Absolutely no variation in their attacks despite holding majority of ball possession & attacking. all BM had to show in first half was a shot keeper cech save/hit the bar. Wasted their energy running like headless chickens, thinking they are some matadors. robben & ribery both were equally culprits destroying their BM own chances even if did headways.

and the arrogance (of their manager) thinking they already won it 4 minutes to the end, shifting in an unorthodox player in their formation. never learn, they never learn from their '99 failure.
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I actually disagree. I thought Bayern did well. I still prefer to watch that kind of football amassing 40 shots and more possession. They didn't do nothing wrong eccept being wasteful. Robben only hit the target once from open play and the ball HITS THE POST. Mario Gomez .. scored 48 goals in 53 games before the final, fails to test the keeper from a good chance. Then he misses the penalty which could have won it for them. Then Olic squares it to van Buyten, who didn't follow up his run and that would have been an easy goal.

I know Chelsea defended well (Ashley Cole and Gary Cahill) and all that but I think this season was their season. Luck also played a part, like it did during the Barcelona semi final. Yes, it's arguable that Barca had all the ball, all the shots but just not the goals while Chelsea scored when it matters but it's still funny how in two games running, they score from just about one or two chances at goal whilst being dominated by the opponents. Scored from their only corner today as well!

And I don't think the manager felt he has won the cup. It was more of bringing a centre back to protect the lead but he should never had taken Muller off.

Bayern has only themselves to blame. They got into good positions but never took advantage of it.


QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 20 2012, 08:17 AM)
Well i did say the only way to justify being out of top 4 is chelsea winning CL.

Anyway,it's hardly surprising considering many posters on here were saying chelsea were similar to us in 2005 being the underdogs.

Not like it's bad news for us anyway after the FA cup defeat.Good thing is tottenham is missing out CL spot and they are gonna go down thumbup.gif
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But to be fair, that 2005 Liverpool squad was not very good in comparison to the 2007 one or the runners up in 2008/2009 but I don't think we played like Chelsea. I can remember vividly that we actually attacked as well.

But what I mean is, we should not be aiming for top four solely, we should aim for the top and if we don't get that, we'd have consolation of Champions League biggrin.gif
Adryan
post May 20 2012, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(koolspyda @ May 20 2012, 10:13 AM)
Bayern was immense against real madrid.

In the final, IN their own stadium, their tag got them to lose the edge. they were playing, dominating but weren't donig it right. no head. left to to all pretty much ribery & robben to launch ideas, creativity. both were terribly off color in shooting department. mario gomez, muller too were generally average (in light what they could really be as in their semi final into your face RM game)

and this is suppose to be against a chelsea side without 4-6  key players.
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Yeah, they just didn't do it right but they were not terrible, IMO. It's arguable that they deserved to win but we all know football doesn't work that way.

As I said, Chelsea defended well but they also had alot of luck going getting past the semis and winning the final. They did defend well against Barca and also last night but it still doesn't mean they had to score from their only handful of shots at goal!!

Anyways, congratulations to them, Abramovich's wait for the CL is over. Spent so much money and so many years on finding the right manager to win it but all along it was a former Chelsea player, lol.

Also proves that you do not need a manager with a great CV to do a great job. I'm not saying Martinez is the right man but Chelsea did win a prestigious cup double with a caretaker manager whose CV only has MK Dons and West Bromwich Albion as runners up in Championship.

As for Torres .. pfft. Forget about him la. He finally got the trophies he wanted but will he be able to tell his grandchildren "I played a huge part".

He's got the World Cup 2010, Euro 2008, Champions League 2012 and FA Cup 2012 right now but he only contributed directly to one of them.

I don't think the majority has a problem with him leaving .. it's just that .. he should of kept his mouth shut about Liverpool.
Adryan
post May 20 2012, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ May 20 2012, 09:47 PM)
I have to say I m not one of those who booed him over. I still like him as a player and appreciated what he did to the club but I strongly disagree with your stand, especially the bold part. It's understandable why some of us here continue to belittle him or to certain extent hate him for what he did. You should have look from our prospective, not your own....

The case of Torres and Owen is pretty similar only that the latter left for free transfer and he made it worse when he snubbed us for Newcastle just because for more $.

Torres left us when we needed him most. I m not surprised if some of us here still hates him for that reason. I for one do not hate him for that....Players come, players go... I have seen Mascherano left, Alonso left....Torres leaving is expected. What i hope is, instead of bashing my mates, why not try to look from their prospective. It's easy to put words into other people mouth claiming them this and that. Experience what they experienced and you might just do the same. Tell me you wont feel the same if Lampard/Terry leave Chelsea for ManU or Arsenal...
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It's not that ... we are not bitter over him leaving at all. I'm not. Players come and go and we all accept that.

The things I couldn't take was .. how he backstabbed the club shortly after joining Chelsea and the lack of effort in his last 6 months. Alonso and Mascherano thought about leaving but they still put 110% in their last season.

That's why fans appreciate them still because they played for the club at the end of the day.

Torres didn't chase, he didn't run, lack of commitment, lack of attitude and it was so obvious he didn't want to play for Liverpool anymore but yet we came up with excuses that he just came back from injury, lack of match fitness, etc.

In his last 6 months, yes, Torres scored goals but it wasn't the same Torres the season before. That could be due to Hodgson's play as well but the least he could was to give FSG and Kenny chance. Funnily enough, he only played well against Chelsea and in the January transfer window.

I don't know if Chelsea was definitely his choice but all I assume is he just wanted to leave and only Chelsea wanted his signature at that time but it looks as though his choice wasn't Chelsea. He hardly looks happy there.

QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 10:19 PM)
Hmm? Di Matteo had no confidence in Torres to take a penalty?
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Says it all when he didn't even start both finals. And yeah, also says it all that he wasn't given a spot kick.

At least when Suarez wasn't given in the final.. it was because he missed all his kicks this season!!

This post has been edited by Adryan: May 20 2012, 10:22 PM
Adryan
post May 21 2012, 12:36 AM

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QUOTE(nando @ May 21 2012, 12:02 AM)
i think Gerrard/Carragher were all caught in midst of the political wars during the last years of Rafa...
there were basically 3 camps.... Gillette vs Hicks and somewhere, Rafa was also fighting them (moneys to sign players). 
So the whole Liverpool board and management were involved in this war....

Gerrard and Carragher later revealed that they just wanted to stay neutral and concentrate of football (which was very hard).  They were afraid that any show of support to any party (even Rafa) will be used against them
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And yet it was Pepe Reina and Fernando Torres who spoke out.

Weren't there rumours of a dressing room split between the Spanish contingent as well and also the rumours that Carra played a part in ousting Rafa and wanting Hodgson?

Anyways, Guillem Balague is reporting about Torres.

Seems that Torres has been suffering and he has been hurting and felt depressed at Chelsea. Evertyhing seems like a mess to him. Also said something that was promised when he signed hasn't happened (sounds familiar). He doesn't feel belonged and apparently wants to talk about his future with the new manager and never felt he should have been treated this way.

Torres is wounded and hurting. Yes, he won two trophies now but he's clearly troubled at Chelsea. I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy.

Doesn't seem like his move was worth it after all.

This post has been edited by Adryan: May 21 2012, 12:36 AM

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