I've used the Incoe MF NS60 battery on my Persona before. Only lasted me 12 months ish

Even the original oem battery from Proton (Ramcar) lasted the same.

Now, I'm currently using Camel MF NS60 which came with an 18 month warranty.

Already been 14 months. Hope can last much longer than 18 months

Ive been using an undersized battery for my Neo, Yokohama IINM. That lasted mr a good 2 years before i replaced with my now Incoe proper sized.

P/s My battery is relocated to boot far away from my engine bay. So i guess that helped battery logetivity by alot?

Point being, if that undersized battery last so long I can imagine this Incoe will last wayyyy longer.

NS60/70 model? i know neo cant use that batt becoz of low hood at front there.. since ur batt at back, so no problem..
i wish can use NS model also.. cheaper.. haha..

Bro,
What do you mean by recond battery, especially since it also comes with warranty? Used or refurbished by manufacturer?

Where did you get it - workshop or dealer or?

I suppose so la... Its like 1 size smaller, maybe its NS60. Plus its in the boot area, no one go kacau it haha and I rarely see.

Hi bro, I found the deal at Facebook Marketplace.
He is actually a normal car workshop in PJS 1, Old Klang Road, selling Recond (refurbished) battery but refurbished by another company. So I traded my old Incoe which I traded in, presumably will be also refurbished.

Not that I wanted Amaron but because this is the only he have that suits my car.



BTw I found another one doing refurbished battery. Based in Melaka but claimed can serve nationwide.




This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Dec 27 2021, 07:35 PM

I see. For my NS40, it doesn't seem worth it to get recond battery.

No wonder I had a customers asking me if the battery I distribute are the real original new stuff or recond stuff. Of course I deal with the real original stuff only. LOL

I wonder how they recond such batteries. A dead battery that has used up its amps can never be resurrected again. My only suspicions is that such recond batteries are actually indeed good batteries to begin with, but because of unscrupulous business tactics adopted, owners are "advised to buy a new one" and the used good battery will be secretly reconditioned and then resold again as recond units or worse case scenario repackaged into original box packing to be sold as "new" and that is according to 1 lady I met. I questioned further to understand the situation and based on her description of that particular seller's operations it does appear that she could be telling the truth.

Thanks for bringing this up, I had completely forgotten about something that I need to clarify with HQ. 😉

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Dec 28 2021, 03:48 AM

Hi bro, let me share with you something I found. I *think* this is how batteries *may* be refurbished in Malaysia.
In summary they are replacing the battery plates & battery acid inside. Only the battery casing is reused.

Do note that these video are from Pakistan. Knowing Pakistan has less regards for safety.


https://youtu.be/i0n9S2v22F4

It's an option BTW for customers.
If you feel paying upwards to as much as Rm 100 more (I'm quoting a NS40 Amaron battery, see link below) will give you more satisfaction,then go ahead.

https://shopee.com.my/product/304589412/625...62-1640680571.9

BTw the new battery also comes with a 1 year warranty also.
Edit: The seller ask for extra Rm 30 if want total of 18 months. Profitable for the seller for those craving extra warranty

For me I so happen to stumble upon refurbished / Recond battery cause I know my car isn't driven daily. I've tried "used" or second hand battery before. So I know how it works, given assurance that it will last longer than used batteries.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Dec 28 2021, 07:06 PM

Bro., if I am not mistaken another forummer had mentioned about this type of operation is in Vietnam or some other place. The life span of such battery if sampai 6 months also very very lucky already. Which kind of contradicts the 12 months warranty that recon batteries comes with.

Anyway was your recon Amaron Battery case looked beat up or was it sparkling like new ? Those in the video does look pretty roughed up.

I have not seen a recon battery todate or seen anyone selling these batteries but according to my Principal Co., they just confirmed that there is such a company. However this has irked all other battery manufacturers as well.

Found this thread while trying to search about incoe batteries, i can say they aren't cheap annoyingly. More annoyingly are lack of spec as well.
When i bought my car 2nd hand, it was sitting on the lot for 6 months and it had a much better bigger panasonic battery, but dealer replaced it with incoe, then after the battery moved and shorted against the hood, mechanic also replaced it with the same battery. However mine is transparent and from the looks of it seems like it has a lot of life. Its also the wet kind.

I can see the individual plates but surprisingly even when my alternator went out, it had plenty of power that i didn't notice it until the battery indicator flashed and the car was acting sluggish.

From what i can say, its not a high capacity battery despite being along the size of NS60 by looking at the size of the plates, and the amount of battery fluids it has, however the thickness of the plates lead me to think that the battery has a lot of life.

The 2 things that kill a lead acid battery (irregardless of type) are the plates dissolving away, and crystalisation. Crystals can be removed using a lead acid repair charger (i have one), which blasts the battery with 24V pulses. If your battery is dead, but the plates look to be in good condition, or if its not cranking fully, this can help. As long as you don't pour out the insides you should be good for a long time. thick battery plates actually are good for higher drain batteries (how much you can drain a battery before you permanently damage it).

The other thing recondition batteries are only worth it if they cost half the price. This is because the reconditioning process involves replacing the internal fluids entirely, using a special chemical, and reapplying charge to rebuild the lead and also the fluids (acids) as well. So a reconditioned battery is only between 50-80% as good as a new battery.

In the US, new batteries are made from old batteries for lead acid. Everything from the casing to the lead, its a dangerous and toxic process that doesn't involve people, rather people control machines for it. The process used here makes an entirely new battery from the old materials, meaning pure lead plates, pure electrolytes, etc. Compared with reconditioning which i'll admit is something you should do for the environment, should not cost close to new. For instance my mum's honda city, changing with another dry century battery was rm 180 including trade in for NS40L. I should've gone with wet though knowing what i do now as for rm 20 less, battery water for the entire life of the battery will be like rm 5, and if you have a used car like i do, you can do the checks at the same time with monthly refills. The issue is just parking to be able to do regular checks safely without worry of being hit on the road (heavy vehicle drivers are more likely to hit and injure you than cars). I'd change my own oil if i had access to flat ground in a safe covered area.

Before you replace battery fluids, always make sure the battery is fully charged. Before you try to repair a battery by refilling it, blast it with 24V first to reverse the crystalisation. When a battery is below 100% capacity, it forms hydrogen gases which if you open the cap will escape. Batter water is pure H20, but it may not replace the gases that escape, this is why you should always make sure the battery is fully charged before adding fluids, as when the battery is close to empty, it may seem to lack fluids, but when it is full the fluids will form back.

This post has been edited by System Error Message: Mar 23 2022, 04:23 PM

Interesting write up. Bro., you have battery reconditioning experiences ?

New batteries how long do they lasts for you ?
Reconditioned batteries how long do they lasts for you too ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Mar 23 2022, 05:40 PM

I tried to repair a generic AGM battery. It didnt go well since at least 2 cells were shorted together so i couldn't get it above 8V.

In a lead acid battery, i think 10.6V is the cut off before damage is done. I don't have enough batteries to try and repair so if anyone has dead lead acid batteries, feel free to give me to try. The only battery you cannot repair is gel, which are not used for cars. Sealed batteries for cars are AGM, as the price is cheap and gel cannot provide the required cranking amps. Gel is even more sealed than sealed AGM batteries.

However i do not recondition batteries, i simply use a special charger and add fluids to restore it rather than drain out anything. It won't restore fully but as long as its usable for UPS or as an emergency use to start the car then thats enough. Reconditioning goes as far as to empty the contents of the battery, clean the insides, reinsert metals if you took them out (usually not needed), add new chemicals, and performing the charging needed to prime them.

Currently i've got a design for a salt water battery that i will put together and try out later, as most of the materials will be reused instead, only thing i'd have to buy new is a terminal metal, but i'm gonna need to double check the voltage separation between the metals since i want the salt to be the defining voltage not the metals as this will allow the battery to be rechargeable and last a long time. I also need to figure out a suitable filter, DIYs recommend paper but paper does not last long in water, same for things like wood. Plastic is good but finding suitable plastic is hard but the initial testing will just be open testing so no filter in between and far distance between terminals. Hopefully this'll work well to get a lot of battery storage by reusing and thus saving the environment, not to mention a suitable use for cars so you can not only sit in traffic without the engine and power everything, but this is far more robust for deep drain batteries unlike lead acid.

datacenters use mid cycle AGM lead acid batteries as they have a requirement for dry stuff, so salt water batteries will never work there. Lead acid batteries work well for UPS and cars because they like to be charged and rarely discharged.

I dont have enough years to tell how long a battery last. All i can say is that most brands on the market that have names last 2+ years for modern cars for AGM. incoe seems interesting due to the transparency so you can inspect the battery yourself and see if its well made. All i can say is that the thicker the plates, the longer the battery will last, so its not impossible to have a single battery last 8 years if the plates are thick and you repair the battery against crystalisation every year or 2 aside from adding fluids every month.

This post has been edited by System Error Message: Mar 23 2022, 05:57 PM

1. How old was the generic AGM Battery with 2 shorted cells when you tried to repair them ?
2. I've got half dead and dead batteries on hand. Where are you located ?
3. I dont think it is a good idea to recondition lead-acid battery to be use as a jumper battery, there are more cons than pros. Better off getting good charger cum jumper pack. I dont know about setting up usable UPS, so no comment rather dont know how to comment.
4. There is a YouTube video about reconditioning just like you written and the presenter was talking about how successful reconditioned batteries are etc etc, then the presenter selected a reconditioned battery to proof to his viewers, sekali tested it failed pulak. If I come across that video again, I will pm you.
5. Salt battery ? I have heard about it before from a lawyer friend. You have a deisgn ? You design stuffs like an inventor ?
6. Thicker the plates, the higher its capacity and higher the price. That is why Deep Cycle Batteries are extremely expensive and substantially heavier too because of those thick plates.
7. It is possible to get 8 years. AGM Battery in an Merc owned by a Dr. 9 years but his Merc had lesser electronics back then. If one drives regularly long distances getting long battery life span is not impossible. Driving long hours prevents crystalization as it is constantly charging it up. Crystalization appears when battery are left unused and sitting constantly doing nothing.

Not all sealed batteries are AGM, but most are SLA or VRLA right? Shake shake them can hear water sound one.

1) about 10 years old. Was used for battery backup for alarm. restored up to 8V meaning that some cells were shorted. Inside was already corroded.
2) around damansara/PJ area, not far from MRT.
3) the jumper battery only needs CCA or cold cranking amps, the ability to supply loads of amps initially. Hence actual capacity doesn't matter. Car's battery must run the electricals for a set amount of time in the event of an alternator failure or act as a capacitor for the times when the alternator can't fully supply all the amps. This is why LED headlamps and brakelights make a whole lot of difference if you sit at night idle with the lights on. I myself have a powerbank jumper but a 50% usable capacity is still decent for backup power. So a repaired lead acid battery may not be suited for a car if it was brought to life from dead.
4) theres plenty, some use a couple of chemicals to add in, i prefer the simpler one that uses battery water + special charger. Some do an entire battery disassembly, clean and add chemicals.
5) I'm doing this for fun, yes i have a design, i'm about to purchase the missing parts needed to test. Its not table salt though as those are not rechargeable. I'm actually a CS guy rather than a chemist or an inventory but i am pissed at the industry taking a bad turn in software and devops. Later on if you read my blog you will understand my hate towards certain languages and frameworks.
6)The thicker the plates the longer they last, because the plates slowly dissolve away. The capacity is determined by the amount of usable metal in the reaction and the electrolytic amount. Its all about being able to store those ions, hence some idiot i read a useful technical article about thinks that lithium is the only high density metal around you can use, but that is simply not true. My design would theoratically do 4V per cell based on the unpure anode (most scientists only go from pure material lists when figuring out voltage and design, but mixed materials can actually produce even more volts or charge). Whenever sulphur or similar is involved, crystalisation can form on the plates which can also "end" their life. pulsing can decrystalise and break the crystal away. The reason why you need a high voltage for that is that the crystals are the electrolyte which actually have a much higher voltage range apart (in a table salt water, this will be sodium on one end, chlorine on the other). However high voltages on any water based electrolyte including lead acid batteries (the acid have water, hence battery water being pure h2o) do electrolyse into gas in high voltage. This its difficult to repair a battery where the plates have dissolved, but you can decrystalise a battery battery easily. Some i've seen show crystalisation on their custom batteries at 0V, like with aluminium where you can physically see the crystals in their transparent plastic packs.
7) long ago back when cars only used the battery to start and barely had any electrics, the life of a typical wet lead acid battery was 6 years. This was before we even knew about the decrystalisation process either, and the metal plates used were also thicker. So with a yearly decrystalisation (repair) charge and maintenance, including good practices, it is possible. Double check the specs of the battery in your friend's car that it is AGM. if it is located in the boot, and you repair that battery every year, avoid using gadgets with the engine off, it could last to 6 years before needing to open the battery and refill battery water. As long as you do not damage/short the cells it will do fine. However more realistically you can expect 3-4 years with yearly repair before having to open and add battery water. Make sure to check the specs as for my alarm battery were impossible to find despite it being GP branded with a modal number, the type of battery was not listed anywhere and i had to learn the whole lead acid stuff to figure out it was AGM.

Repaired batteries will never be as good as new capacity wise, but doesn't mean they are useless. Reconditioned batteries, you can expect at most 80% lifespan of a new, this is because the battery electrodes are not new metal, its the same metal with chemicals used to clean and recreate whats possible.
Repaired - gone through decrystalisation and electrolyte added
Reconditioned - insides cleaned and replaced, chemicals used but metals are not replaced.
new - old battery taken apart fully, recycled and processed into new raw materials which are used to make a new battery.
Terminology only applies to lead acid. All lead acid batteries new today are made from old ones.

Note: if you repair your battery well and it lasts for 10 years, you will not be able to recondition it as by then the metals would be dissolved. Reconditioning is environmentally hazardous, so you save the environment by repairing your batteries then exchanging them when buying new for them to be recycled. Since most car owners replace their batteries every 2 years, those batteries are reconditioned to provide like new performance, but if you can use a battery till it dies through no more metal, then it cannot be reconditioned. Both the reconditioning or recycling process is toxic and dangerous, so better to choose the recycling only by repair.

Yes, sealed batteries are a general term. If a battery is sealed and cheap, then it is definitely AGM if the price is close to flooded lead acid. This leads me to believe that if the difference between a wet car battery and sealed one is rm 20 (10%), then it is most likely AGM. Infact the small sealed lead acid batteries used for toys, alarms, etc are also AGM. Its so difficult to find the specs that i had to learn out a lot about lead acid just to figure out the type.

The more expensive sealed batteries you buy for cars that are like RM 400 are most likely VRLA where sealed and wet are around rm 200. Most common are wet and AGM due to pricing being very close together. To me i don't see much benefit in going for very expensive if you understand the battery and can treat it well. Some people hack their own dual batteries, small lead acid battery just to start the car, and use lithium battery if the current pull is less than certain amount allowing the car to be kept parked for long periods of time or lets you sit in traffic with the engine off and AC on. Some just do supercaps + lithium. mercedes uses a flat motor at the end of the engine as the starter, alternator and supercharger (electrical) with a lithium battery pack for the supercharger (its not a hybrid). This mercedes is not sold in malaysia and is only 1 model as a proof of concept.

1. 10 years is about there for an AGM battery. A forummer here brought back an imported car and that battery from overseas lasted really really long. Our currency is falling like crap and as a result quality is being sacrificed, unless one intends to pay for quality. Ini semua pasal ada orang bodoh dekat Parliament.

2. I am located too far away from you. The cost of delivery those batteries would not be feasible. Your only option is put a word out among your neighbour and buy their dead batteries so that you can play with them.

3. That is why those dead batteries cannot be use as jumper battery. A guy few doors away kept his dead batteries thinking they would be handy just in case he needed batteries to jumpstart. Bateri dah kong, simpan kat tu, lagi bateri tu kong kong. A dead battery will never have the CCA to help jumpstart another dead battery. If it could help jumpstart another dead battery then it wouldn't be dead now wouldn't it, but continued to be in service in someone else's vehicle.

Having said that, I wonder if weak batteries work like this, the combination of both batteries capacity if combined together are just sufficient enough to turn over the engine. Havent done such a thing before. LOL

4. About reconditioning batteries ie taking out and placing in new plates, new electrolytes etc etc like in those YouTube videos, can anyone point out what is the biggest flaw in those batteries ?

5. You have a blog bro ? Please share. TQVM

6. I have no idea what you are talking about. 😊

7. Yes the old Merc battery was located in the boot area, the Dr. showed me when I went to test the DIN100 battery and it was still in good condition despite it being 7 years old. He drives it around and he always parks in the shade or in his porch away from the sun. Cannot remember what battery brand it was.

8. I dunno know if Repaired Batteries are even possible. Some have written that pulsing etc dont really work. So I am leaning towards that such "Repaired Batteries" are actually batteries that are still in relatively good condition but were scammed away from their owners by unscrupulous out to make a quick buck.

A lady once called me for help with her dead battery. Upon testing I knew immediately that her electrical charging system had given way and she told me of her nightmare with endless battery changes, workshops etc etc. So I warn her not to call anyone else but me if ever her battery fails. You cannot imagine the number of times I met with workshops and tricks they do to force her to buy another new battery and everytime I bailed her out. If I am not mistaken I think I help her 3 times, everytime the battery was drained, I would charged it back up like new to her amazament, despite what the mechanics were telling her. No matter how good the Century Battery was, despite what other had said, everytime I brought it back to her, it was like new. I believed in the end she had sold that vehicle because every mechanice was scamming her left and right. Poor lady.

What I am trying to say is that is pressure to close the sale on a new battery and to relieve the owner of its still relatively good battery unknown to the owner. That way such used good batteries can be "repaired" and resold again at a better price, almost without any warranty attached at all. I didn't know about such things but it was a client who told me about it and even offered to show me which battery shop was indulging in such practices in Duyong area. Thank goodness that shop wasn't a Century dealer. Malu sial. This shop was taking a notch higher selling repaired batteries at full price like new, with box and all. Memang terkejut la got such practices. I often wonder if the accident that claimed 10 lives on Elite Expressway is linked to such "repaired batteries".

Note : Nope I dont do repairs nor reconditioning at all. Crazy man who wants to deal with all the hazardous waste. All traded in batteries are scrapped. I take another step further all Century Battery MUST be traded-in and I will deal with them accordingly so that they will not be able to traded as 2nd hand batteries whatsoever. Other battery brands I am not interested, if the owner wants them they can have it. Lesser work for me.

I hear you man, the average life span is 2 years. That is because the owners themselves are doing all kinds of jack shit things to their batteries and expect it to last ? They are nuts man. Only those who wants to be frugal and learns how to use their battery power wisely will be able to extend their battery life span.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Mar 25 2022, 07:32 AM

System Error Message
I have different understanding from what you're saying about AGM:
- if sealed vs non-sealed price is close, the sealed is not AGM, as there would be the useless battery health indicator on top like this.

- AGM are very expensive, and cannot use the health indicator
- backup battery for alarm, those black colored ones, are mostly AGM this I believe is true

Thanks for sharing your battery invention. Hope it works.

This post has been edited by alexei: Mar 25 2022, 01:19 PM

1)you can make your own lead acid battery. If a battery is totally dead you can reuse the case and terminals, but you have to fully take it apart and insert the items required.
2) thats fine, ofcourse if anyone is near me either via public transport or location and want to donate their dead batteries feel free. I'll also be taking some materials for recycling for my battery project as well.
3) Dead batteries cant, but repaired dead batteries can. you can use them for jump start if you get the CCA right but capacity wise nope.
4) Simply that some of the thickness of the metal anode/cathode will be gone. Since you can scrape some of the material away and some material is lost to the whole reactions over time, this is why the lifespan will be a lot less and why the performance will only be a bit less. remember the CCA testing tool is your friend here in checking if its ok to buy and irregardless recond or new, price is the main factor. To me the risk of recond batteries makes them only worth half of a new battery. If the metals are too thin and you discharge the battery too much at one time, could be permanently dead. Also rust is a factor here.
5) Yes but its mostly computing, i do intend to update the information layout and add more content soon but my next few articles are going to be on IT related stuff as thats the most recent stuff i'm writing. I'll definitely do a youtube on the battery and write up but theres a queue. Just search for my forum name, its a well known alias in some places.
For instance system-error-message.com . I'm still working on my site as i migrated it out of shared hosting (being broke) and onto my own clustered low powered hardware. Still got a few things to work out for the site to be working well other than just working.
6). as long as theres metal and electrolytes, the battery lives. The thicker the metal, the longer before the metal disappears or becomes completely unusable. You can replenish the electrolyte easy but the metals require full disassembly. The thinner the metal, the faster it dissolves, the faster battery dies.
7) battery being in the boot, away from heat does help its lifespan. Lead acid is acid, it dissolves metal slowly, heat helps speed up the process.
8) They do, heck even i did manage to repair the old AGM battery, but because of corrosion and shorted cells it achieved 8V which is its new fully charged state due to it now being 4 cells only (4x2V is 8V), 6x2v is 12V. I do not intend to create a business of repairing batteries, the charger is cheap enough that you can do it yourself. foxsfur (not sure of exact spelling) is one inexpensive brand that you can buy that supports charging different 12v/24v batteries and repairing lead acid ones as well. If the pulsing doesn't work, after the process finishes, you proceed to replenish electrolyte then charge. Many youtuber testing did find repairing to work half the time. Good quality batteries work well with this because all it does is clear the metal plates from the crystalisation from the sulphur bonding to the plates and covering them, breaking the circuit. But sulphur does have its place in the voltage chart so the right voltage does cause it to become an ion again.

That seller is unscrupulous. A recond/repaired battery will never be as good as new. My car has space for 2 batteries and new batteries can be cheap as well. It was never the intended purpose but the metal you put the battery on is big, only the side metal holding the battery broke away. Duct tape does a good job here though. you can use recond battery as backup batteries, UPS, emergencies, etc. For instance theres a lead acid based starter instead of the lithium ones. Those are bulky and what breakdown services use when you're stranded because you left the lights on and use lead acid batteries. Recond/repaired batteries fit fine here, or in your boot as an emergency, or even as a UPS battery if your old one dies. Thats why i said their value is half, They're no good anymore for use in the car because even with the CCA rating the capacity isn't there for the design of the car to operate a certain amount of time if the alternator fails. Battery size choice for cars is based on the engine CCA needed, starter motor used and how long to run the car in event of alt fail. If alt fail + battery fail, then car dies which is why the accident is due to both battery run out of juice and alternator fail first. A lot of times an alternator failure is not shown on the car (battery light doesn't turn on). Also a rush job and not properly connecting terminals and isolating them can cause said accident where car dies. Happened to me after a bad pot hole, some streets later the battery slit forward and shorted against the hood. Car totally died but it was some inroad and i stopped just right infront of a TNB substation. Ironic to stop infront of TNB for an electrical issue. There was an explosion at the battery terminal, the battery still had some juice but it was completely useless in starting the car. I had a powerbank starter so after i got the connector off the hood, i started the car and drove off, went to mechanic next day and got another incoe battery. These incoe batteries are tough but only for the see through ones, they can con you with the non see through ones.

If you wanna downsize your lead acid battery to start the car you can, but make sure you have another power pack to help run the accessories. starting the engine needs current, and CCA rating doesnt care about capacity, so you can make a battery with capacitor design for that current, but have little to no capacity to run stuff. In my opinion a dual battery design would be a lot better, mixing a lead acid battery with another battery (not lithium) could pretty much do a lot of good for start stop engine feature and not having to keep the engine idling. Pulsing the battery restores the CCA rating, and maybe some of the capacity, and this is one way to keep your battery long lived if you do it every year while its still kicking. Pulsing is no myth, it does work but it can't do miracles. If a battery is fully dead, voltage won't help. If the metal plates are covered which does happen after enough usage, this helps. If you take care of your battery from things like heat, maintaining it and keeping it fully charged, pulsing it every year, it will last long. Not much you can do with maintenance on a sealed battery other than charging and pulsing. Pulsing too much is bad for the battery too as it does not like overcharging (or for lead acid, the electrolyte doesn't like high voltages). Once a year is the max i would do to keep it strong. Thats why its important to turn on your car engine every week at least to operating temperature for the engine, and for battery to fully charge. You can also get voltmeters to stick into your car's electrical sockets. If it can't go up to 14.2-14.5V you should check your alternator (it takes time to charge the battery but at full charge you should see said voltages).

As long as the electrolyte doesn't electrolyse away at 4V then it should work as intended, to have a battery that can be both safe and abused with half the materials reused.

This post has been edited by System Error Message: Mar 25 2022, 11:10 PM