Hmmm, I've been kinda interested in learning the piano too. I have some experience playing with the organ, but when I look at piano scores... whoah big difference in skill. >.>

Personally, I find organ to be more complicated with all the pedals down there

I think it'd be easier to go from piano to organ than vice-versa, hands wise you already have skillz far exceeding the average mid-grade organ player >_>

gosh... after reading the comments posted on the 1st page, i'm having second thoughts of self-learning now..

hi stanny,

i haven't really read through the whole thread here.

Learning classical piano:

1. to get a teacher and learn under him/her covering both practical [literally piano playing] and theory studies [learning on the logics behind music construction on the overall].

To be able to play Chopin like you mentioned, you have to go to at least Grade 8 in ABRSM.

However, if you're good and intiative, you could attempt to play Chopin already even while you're in Grade 6.

That's what my teacher did, giving me piano pieces that are ahead of the grade that I'm in. Say like while I'm in grade 4, she's giving me grade 5 and 6 pieces to play and no more Grade 4 pieces.

It's never too late to learn classical piano. I started learning only when I'm 13. It really depends on how much you're interested cos' on my part I reached Grade 6 from Grade 1 in 3 years plus. Yea, it's practice crazy. Lol.

But if you were to learn contemporary piano styles playing like pop, and such, you could pick up on your own. But I wouldn't recommend it if you haven't got any foundation in classical. By the time you have, it would be a walk in the park to pick up contemporary piano playing. Trust me, cos' I've been thru that road.

In saying that, picking up contemporary piano playing styles applies to contemproary music of course, except for jazz.
For jazz, there's a whole new studies on theory again, and practical playing. It's like a revolutionalized concept in practical and theory when it comes to jazz. You're sure to get your head fused up if you dont' have any foundation in classical when you attempt to understand jazz. It's possible though you might overstressed yourself.

Hope this helps.

piano's basically the basic of all instruments. Once you know how to play them, you could pick up other instruments just like that, if you so desires.

If you still want to branch out to other keyboard based instruments, from piano, you could go to keyboard/organ/synthesizers.

On piano, you could learn how to express emotions on the notes you play [degrees of volumes, legatos, and a whole bunch of stuffs]; things you can't really feel through your fingers on keyboards/organs/synthesizers.

I got to fiddle with an organ on my trip to an orphanage lately; never did touch an organ til' that time. Minutes sitting there, and it was quite fun having the bass pedals down there as well. Basically they're just chromatic notes as evident on piano's keyboard.

Classical piano's got a good future, even right here in Malaysia; but one thing is that you must be darn good. I mean as in, if you can play Chopin like nobody's business,take for example, his etude 'Revolutionary', or pieces like 'fantasy impromptu' in actual timing and just like the way it's meant to be played according to the original song sheets; then you're on top of your game.

Heya all you guys.. I just stumbled across this thread and thought I'd give a little input...

Personally I've been playing since I was 3 yrs old (Been playing for 14yrs now).

I tell you what - I started out without any lessons or books. Just by ear... by hearing what other people played and playing it back.

So to a certain extent it is possible to develop some skills from being self-taught... however, in my case, and I would probably say other cases, it's VERY VERY EASY to develop bad habits by teaching yourself. Stuff like posture, fingering, tone production and so on. Most people don't realise that music is A LOT more than just pressing the notes correct and in time. Even a computer can do that! It's about shaping the music, your input into it, tone, how you contrast the sections of the piece, and a lot more.

I think that past a certain level, you definitely need a teacher... If you want to progress further, that is. It's not impossible to do it by yourself, but you can learn so much more with a teacher.

Learning also doesn't have to be boring... Whatever people say about classical music teaching/learning or the music itself being boring... Part of it may also be due to having a boring teacher (heh, hope I'm not saying too much). But having a GOOD teacher can make ALL the difference. A teacher who cares, who understands you and can guide you through. Music can become quite a complex and personal thing, and you need a teacher who understands how you relate to music and so on..

I strongly disagree with electronic pianos/keyboards - their touch is normally horrible, they just don't have the feeling of a hammer moving forwards to hit strings, the pedals (if they have any) are terrible (discreet levels of pedalling and sudden changes), and the worst thing - There is NO character in the piano at all. All the notes sound the same! Get an upright (unless you can afford better), doesn't have to be new (my first piano had 6 strings broken and was out of tune).

About people comparing how easy it is to learn/master instruments or how basic they are, I have a different view... Having played in some orchestras & chamber groups, and seeing the styles in which the composers compose their music - All instruments are different, their method of playing, so on. For example, no other instrument can match the piano in its ability to produce colours with chords or its versatility in playing more than one note, or all those fast passages. On the other hand, what can produce that clear tone of the violin, which sings at the top? Or the power and rich tone of the trombone? Perhaps one might be technically easier to master than the other, but musically it might be even harder. Sometimes the simplest of things can be the hardest to master. You can even study recorder as your first instrument in the Royal Academy of Music (or is it the Royal College?) in London.

Don't let anything stop you from wanting to learn music - even my comments. Music is a language - there will be many opinions on it. But for the love of music... don't be discouraged.

EDIT: Just some other things I'd like to add - To me, music is not about exams. It doesn't matter what grades you have, that doesn't tell you much about you as a musician. Your musicianship is just as important. Notice I said "Just as". I'm not saying exams are less important than anything, but that there are also other important things which go along with the exams. Exams are useful in setting a goal and benchmarking yourself - but remember, it's not the thing which decides how good you are.

Oh, and about the organ. Have you heard the pipe organ in KLCC? It's not bad... hear all those powerful notes.. Or even better, try going to a cathedral... There's nothing more glorious than hearing a choir sing their hearts out with the deep sounds of the organ along with the grand pipes hitting you, and then suddenly, a drop in volume with the reverb of the voices echoing away into the corners of the cathedral. Whoops, getting a bit carried away.. hehe

This post has been edited by hoongern: Dec 31 2005, 12:16 AM

So there's someone hiding under water .. ?

Anyways, until now, I still believe it's not hard to pick up an instrument if you have a decent background in music .. It's not hard to pick up, but it's hard to master it like the back of your hand as I suggested earlier ... The thing is, for example, everyone can play guitar, but how many of them can play like Mike Oldfield?

About the exam, it's just the same as all the exams (SPM and et cetera) we see everyday ... They merely act as a medium for you to venture into further places within the music field as you'll need to have a certain qualification before being eligible to be enrolled into music colleges ...

I haven't heard about the pipe organ in KLCC, but I did visit a cathedral here and I must agree ... The impact of such combination is truly impressive (though I couldn't understand what they were singing in the first place) ...

About the keyboard, there are better ones (but usually they will cost ALOT more than an upright piano) ... Those piano that are used such as stage performance piano (like Kurzweil or Nord), they do have a much proper piano styled pedals and weighted hammer action keys ... As you have been involved in so many events, you surely understand that sometimes, portablitiy comes before quality ...

This post has been edited by Geminist: Jan 1 2006, 07:29 AM

Wow, Grade 8 to play Chopin! I better start soon then if I am going to reach there anytime soon. Chopin is so much as an inspiration to me and its the reason I want to play the piano.

From reading all the comments I am certain that I need a teacher so that I develop correctly instead of picking up bad habits. I also don't want to get something digital anymore. As hongern mentioned, I think the normal piano has so much more to give and the expression it can give just don't compare (I have tried messing with digital keyboards and an acoustic piano before).

One thing though, what do you think about sweaty palms when it comes to playing the piano? When I do anything that requires the use of my hands, like foosball or playing the guitar, my palms start to sweat and its just not a minorly. On some rare occasion though, I keep my cool and it doesn't. Maybe I could wear gloves while attending class but I think thats just akward.

It's true that you're better off with an acoustic piano because as suggested earlier, there are better ones out there just that, the price tag are much higher too ... Well, I'm not really a fan of digital keyboards but I must clarify that instruments like Korg/Roland/Nord give very good expressions and mood (I once downloaded some demo of Korg Triton some time ago) ... Just that, the price is just not worthwhile for everyone ...

I don't think there's any problem with sweaty palms unless if it's very serious to an extend you might wet the keys ... The reason is because you're only playing with the tip of your finger ... You should pay more attention to your finger nails as finger nails sometime make you slip and the "tik tik" sound from the finger nails are rather annoying at times ...

Posture huh ... For first timmers in violin, the first few lessons of the violin class it to learn how to hold/stand with the violin in the correct way ...

More like hiding under a piano . I'd drown if I hid underwater...

To be fair, yes, I agree that digital pianos can be very versatile - and I've come across many HORRIBLE acoustic pianos too (some with broken keys, dead sound, hammers which hit the strings NEXT to the one they're supposed to hit, broken music stands, etc). They will never replace a proper concert grand piano, but they do have their place in music. (At least they don't go out of tune , and need less mantainance). But even when I compare two grand pianos (For example my school's 7ft Yamaha Grand and 7ft Steinway Grand, both aren't that great, but you can hear the character in the steinway - it has a voice, so to speak).

Also I've heard some synthesized piano (using Synthogy Ivory, about 40GB of samples?). It sounds nice, nicer than my piano, but yet, something is missing.. It just sounds too boring, even if it sounds nice. I can't yet find out what it is, but it just doesn't have the touch and sound of a real piano... perhaps it's the way that the keys interact with each other when the frequencies interfere on the sound board of a piano if it's real - the synthesized doesn't have it.

I guess the argument of portability/quality all depends on the concert.. If it's a big concert, I won't want a digital... But yes, the digital piano is useful.. (assuming you find a plug point heh)



Hehe, depends which Chopin. "assuming" a level of grade 8 (Who decides what's gr.8 standard anyway?), he has pieces less challenging / more challenging than that.

About sweaty hands, does that happen because of nervousness, or does it just happen? I know it can be quite an issue especially in cold countries - when a concert comes up your hands all become cold and sweaty.. that's when one starts looking for a hand drier. Too bad pianos aren't designed with warm air vents to blow across the keys That would be useful for me...

I hope you don't mean wearing gloves when playing? (Well, my teacher wears some wrist protectors or something). It would be quite hard to play with them on...

tak tak sound of fingernails can be irritating, yes. Tak NAK that sound! Keep them trimmed =) . Pity for those who like keeping long fingernails. (Although it isn't impossible to play with long ones)

I must say there is no end in the discussion of keyboard versus acoustic piano (it's just like saying the egg or chicken comes first) ... As you said, it depends on the concert ... To be more precise, I believe what you mentioned is the genre of the concert itself ...

Oh and by the way, you're one lucky person in this world to be able to play on a Steinway grand ... The best I came across was Kawai

But seriously speaking, I'm not that into Yamaha's piano as I find their sound to be muffled or blurry ... I prefer something which is clearer ... (<- guess it's just me) ...

I guess so. You could almost consider them (ALMOST, not exactly) different instruments...

A steinway is just a steinway.. And anyway it's not mine (wish wish).. In fact, the steinway I normally use is not that great... Its top range has become a little harsh.. Although, yes, it's still a steinway. And at home all I have is a aging Kawai..

Actually, over the years I notice that Yamahas actually tend to be brighter (at least on the bottom end).. or maybe it's just because i've just played on very-well-seasoned pianos (hammers harden up - thus the brighter sound). But again, every piano has a different character, so it's hard to say.

Music is just a hobby to me and I don't really have that much exposure ...

Thus, someday, I really need to try out a Steinway grand ...

On a serious note though, I have played on an upright Yamaha, Kawai, Schewester and Samick grand ... I still find that Yamaha's sound are muffled ... Perhaps I ought to give Yamaha more tries when I get back ...

You wouldn't remember which yamaha models you've played on?

I've played on three Yamaha baby grands (model GC1 i think), 2 were bright, 1 was slightly mellow.. one Kawai baby grand which was really old and clangy, 4 Yamaha Grands (model C5), two are bright, one was really new, a bit mellow, but not fuzzy, and the other - bass range was mellow, top range was harsh.. that was a terrible piano (and I had to play it in the MidSomerset Festival competition! Luckily everyone else also had to play it)... One Yamaha C7 grand... which is moderately bright... As for steinway I've played a Medium Grand - Model M 5' 7" which sounded really underplayed (a bit muffled) and could not take much dynamic changes... An older one (7ft+) which sounded really rich&clear.. but perhaps aging a bit. and the one I'm currently using in my school is a Music Room Grand - Model B (i think, but might be parlour model A) which is quite rich, but a bit too mellow on the midrange and a bit clangy on the top.. And whoops, I broke on the of the piano strings on it, while recording!

I have a Kawai US-50 upright grand which is HARSH and no volume on the bottom range (all the hammers have hardened up)...

And my school's practice pianos are mostly Yamaha (either PX124 N-T or SU7, I can't remember) which are bright....

hope you manage to try out a steinway soon.. meanwhile you can load some samples into your computer heh, it's not the same though.

Erm ... No ... I seldom pay attention to too much models of acoustic piano because it's not easy remembering them (for me...) ...

After reading your impression on Steinway, I really really really ought to give it a try if I can find one ...

Hmm, yea .. It's not the same by loading it onto my computer ... The feeling of listening to a piano live and from a computer, it's totally different ... Somehow, I feel more impressed and touched by listening to a piano live instead of listening through computer ...

Thats why the audiophiles say the piano is by far the most difficult instrument to reproduce on hi-fi >_>

Yes.. live performances are so much better... You're in London? I'm not sure whether they allow you (so if you decide to go and turns out to be a failure, you can't blame me for wasting your money! ), but you could try going to the Royal Academy/College of music and see whether there are any there to try.. Probably not actually.. I think you have to book practice rooms and that kind of stuff.....

The piano can be hard to capture... but I don't think it's the hardest. I haven't tried miking a pipe organ *yet*

Hehe... we seem to be diverging off the topic...

Anyway if anyone wants to do Chopin which is not that hard... I did Deus Nocturnes, Op. 55 Nr.1 in F minor 5 years back I think... or you could try perhaps the B flat minor nocturne... or the E flat major waltz.. Although if you've just started I don't suggest you try those... Start with something simpler first..

This post has been edited by hoongern: Jan 2 2006, 09:49 PM

I'm in UK, but not London ... The address I put up here is the address of Sherlock Holmes at Baker Street ... Didn't have time to visit that place ... XD

I'm in a remote town called Bradford ... How about you? Are you doing music in England now?

*Yea, we seems to be diverting our conversation alittle here ...

Hmm, isn't piece like The Flight of the Bumble Bee composed by Rimskij Korsakov much tougher? By the way, you came across any piece you like by Franz Schubert?

geminist...does ur uni hav music courses?mine has..n they got some orchestra thingy...some ppl are not bad...theres alot a place in newcastle called sage or someting i was told they got orchestra n gig goin on there..i miss the tommy emanuel 1 not too long ago...im sure london got alot of events as well rite?

i checked the schedule..hillary duff will be here this year..haha.. but it doesnt hav anything to do with the topic hhaa..

This post has been edited by tytons: Jan 4 2006, 07:00 AM