Hi guys audio kaki's out there.

How can we improve our sound quality audio? Whether need to install power-amp or change the HU and speaker? If we change HU, any good HU that can support steering wheel control buttons?

Please advice. Thanks

This post has been edited by geniuz: Apr 9 2012, 01:14 PM

depends on your budget. You'll need at least RM3k if you want to change the HU, get a decent component set, a 4-chan amp and a sub.

You can setup so the back speakers only drive the mids (driven by HU) and get the amp to power the component set+subs.

Might want to consider sound proofing too, at least the front door. Don't bother with hood/firewall unless you have the cash to spend.

Change HU first also can. Just change and see if you like it, if not, then proceed to speakers.

a combo of HU + component set is my recommendation, however if there is further budget constraint, start with the HU first

can take it step by step, no need to rush

I think better HU + component set ...can really hear the changes coz sometime HU alone dont hear much difference

p80rs, the rest , sound proof

A good hu and normal component set first if your budget is limited~

The HU of course wanna change it but I worried whether the new HU can support my steering wheel control buttons? That my concern. I dont want to lose my buttons control.

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Added on March 20, 2012, 8:04 pmActually as per your suggested.... I want to put a 4 channel amp but to driven all my front and rear speaker and another amp just to give a kick to my sub

For the sound proofing, later got budget sure do one...

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Added on March 20, 2012, 8:06 pmYeap!! Agreed with u bro... No need to rush coz when I drive my car always rush one

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Added on March 20, 2012, 8:08 pmAt the first place Yes!! But I worried soon 'kena racun' kaw kaw with the shop taukeh then

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Added on March 20, 2012, 8:10 pmBut have to pair with a good speaker right??

This post has been edited by geniuz: Mar 20 2012, 08:10 PM

Steering wheel control button can retain or not im not sure, it think is depends on hu gua? cause my ride don't have steering wheel button

Changing HU first because most of the drivers like to add in USB or iPod/iPad features.

You definitely will hear the difference already, Saga HU is really just not nice.

As for the steering functions, I think it is not a big issue. Vendors have come up with interface for your steering control to continue to work.

get a proper component fix first to have the best effect

My 2cents worth.
All your budget dump on a decent set of component speakers+decent 4cha amp & decent wirings. (sub+mono if your wallet allows too)
If no difference compare to your current stock, I swallow your 4 tyres+spare tyre. Lol!
HU alone don't do much. Even if you go for ODR with the rest on OEM.
I've tried P99 driving OEM, will fall asleep while driving..

This post has been edited by Prince of Darkness: Mar 20 2012, 11:32 PM

p99 got no internal amp how to drive oem speaker?

So to speak, when replace HU, it's a MUST to purchase amp together or else can't drive any component???
Wow! Then sales is easy, have to come in package?
In that case, I reckon P99 is not a user friendly HU.

So which are the few that has build in amp? Then purchase those HU don't have to install amps anymore save alot of $..

This post has been edited by Prince of Darkness: Mar 21 2012, 08:48 AM

The P99 is out of my budget (RM4XXX) and not very keen it to stay in Saga... Better it stay in beemer or others continental cars Another thing, is very2 dangerous one if fall asleep while driving..

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Added on March 21, 2012, 8:44 amIf I not mistaken all HU can drive the speaker n components but have to pair with suitable ones.. Even my another car HU ie JVC can easily pump my blaupunkt speaker without amp and can tapau my Saga stock audio. But of course if sub woofer sure have to put amp liou.

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Added on March 21, 2012, 8:46 amI tried to ask google on that but still failed. Can u suggest a few?? Thanks

This post has been edited by geniuz: Mar 21 2012, 08:55 AM

most high end HUs dont have internal amp, what we call pure decks. its still user friendly, coz the users are high end SQ kakis, they dont want the internal amp and dont need the internal amp, so manufacturers produce what was demanded by this market segement.

This post has been edited by zennn: Mar 21 2012, 11:21 AM

Something like this, not necessary this.

dude, if u talk like this, i really doubt u use p99 to pair with oem spk or not lor....if u vener done that pls dun misleading other icers...

do google what is pure deck before u consider using p99 to use with oem spk lor....

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Added on March 21, 2012, 2:20 pmgoogle what is pure deck to know more......

This post has been edited by howiechoo: Mar 21 2012, 02:20 PM

For example, the rm499 "hertz" from brother?

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Added on March 21, 2012, 7:42 pmBuild in amp? 9887 ? I am very sure this can drive a component, way better then stock hu (of course after tuning)

if you're not a hardcore ice player~ just go for those low-priced hu like sony(two hundred something have aux-in already with build in amp ) and some"budget" speaker like ameron, mohawk.. Sure you'll feel the difference from stock units d~

This post has been edited by will92: Mar 21 2012, 07:42 PM

Care to share why is that so that if everything in my car is in stock condition and I just change the P99 HU alone, what will happen? Not workable?
In short, get those HU with "in-build amp" so in future don't have to waste $ for adding amps anymore?

Which phrase of mine makes you say that I'm misleading others?
I'm just sharing(if free speech is allow) the result of changing a HU 1st pairing with OEM speakers - can fall asleep...
Rather i suggest to replace speakers+amps+wirings as 1st step, then HU subsequently, follow by SP and etc.

Puredeck? Hmm.. If I can recaps, processer is build in instead of external?

Not a pro here and hence pls correct me if I'm wrong.
No offense, I wish to learn too.

Cheers!

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Added on March 21, 2012, 8:17 pmUnderstood and had been through..
Is 9887 with build in amp? Heard the imprint is good?

Nah, I'm just a normal user. My products used are normal ones.
Infact, I'm using one of the cheap range ameron component set. Silver cone material w/o the branding printed on the speakers. $900 which I felt... Haiz! No point crying over spilled milk.

Btw, ever heard of Rave product? Thought of trying thou..

This post has been edited by Prince of Darkness: Mar 21 2012, 09:36 PM

id reckon pure DAC would be easier to search and understand, at least the common term in audiophile (and LYN audiophile sub forum)

dac = digital analog converter

in other words, all it does is convert your usb/mp3/CD digital signals, to analog signals, nothing more, nothing less.
if it does not have a built in amp like most entry to mid level HU does, it wont be able to drive anything properly.

why enthusiasts/hardcore people who go for high end HU that are pure deck (or pure DAC) is to eliminate any potential quality degrade due to poor internal amp. technically it is also considered double amping which to most, if not all audiophile, reduces signal purity and thus lower quality. as a matter of fact most people playing in the high end systems are expected to have amps anyways, no reason to ignore a market demand/requirement and have internal amps.

thanks mate.... But all continental ones. I will try to ask survey my town first whether they got or not the item like this one.

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Added on March 21, 2012, 9:20 pmPrince of Darkness, howiechoo

Come on guys... please dont fight here.... we just wanna share suggestion and opinion and also wanna know a little bit bout car audio system....

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Added on March 21, 2012, 9:22 pmS, u mean I need to install the speaker (front and rear) first right? Later invest on the amp then last only fix HU....? Sorry for my noob question

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Added on March 21, 2012, 9:26 pmIn that case, the so call 'pure deck' no need to install any amp? It can perform by itself? Just attach it to any speaker will do or also need special speaker for that? Can this kind of deck can play loud SQ sound?

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Added on March 21, 2012, 9:59 pmhere you go..

Pure Deck, meaning it's almost functionless except for some hi end dedicated signal processors, can't read MP3 and stuffs, no amp, not much extra bonuses, the main job is just to read the CD and give out uncompromised clean and clear signal to amp or proccessor. Most Hi End car HU r of this type.


This post has been edited by geniuz: Mar 21 2012, 09:59 PM

I am also newbie in ice duh
Anyway, p99 won't drive your speaker/component because it does not have internal amplifier. But in the case of 9887/cda-117/p80prs, they have internal amplifier to drive your speaker/component, but the internal amp is weak, so you'll need external amplifier to boost your component/speaker(correct me if i'm wrong ) . As for imprint, i have no idea, because i've yet to experience it.

900 for learning a lesson is ok already, i paid 1k plus(without changing hu) to brothers -.- result is, "lala" bass, poor mid, piercing highs~
As for rave, i've no idea.
Anyway, what type of music you normally listen to?this will guide you whether to go SQ road or SPL road.(my thinking lah )

long time i dun putting effort in explaining, so now i have a try



see the red circle? this is so common that its written on every headunit about it's internal amp output capability.....

why the cheap hu got but p99 don't have? Because p99 is pure deck (headunit without built in amplifier to reduce heat, power consumption, and interference with the ultimate key point that nobody will buy such an expensive hu and use the internal 4x50watts max amplifier). It's job is just getting data from your cd, provide preamp/tuning function and send to amplifier(external which you need to buy seperately). This goes to mcintosh, denon, naka high end, alpine high end, eclipse SM and also some other brands....Some old ppl actually think those hu are rubbish because they dunno why the hu cant connect to spk directly and looks oldschool....actually i got a fren who bough a mcintosh at rm300 in half cut shop...

if u said you use p99 to pair with oem spk and it sound boring, i do find it misleading because it will not be able to drive a speaker without adding an external amp. If a newbie that know nothing but got lotsa money go buy a p99 and wanted to drive the oem spk but found out cant do that, who's gonna blame?

Then i will offer swap his p99 with my 18w rms x 4 cap-ayam hu

you really meant saving more money as in having more money in your bank account or its just sarcasm?

Now I got did!! Thanks Mr howiechoo coz details explanation

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Added on March 22, 2012, 8:05 amBut, how come this kind of HU got such a big price? coz inside got no internal amp.... Maybe all the components used good materials or somethings is it?

This post has been edited by geniuz: Mar 22 2012, 08:05 AM

No worries, can blame it on me if that happens.

Layman question to you:
So P99 HU alone totally can't drive any speakers at all without the help of adding amp?

Answer in layman: Yes or No is very more then enough for me. Don't bother to write composition to explain further.

Thanks.

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Added on March 22, 2012, 9:24 amDefinitely in my own bank account rather then others right?? Can save more why not? To much money to you is a burden?

This post has been edited by Prince of Darkness: Mar 22 2012, 09:24 AM

Just to share what i did to my saga. Last year changed my HU to pioneer that supports SD card, cos having a usb drive sticking out is ugly and inconvenient. Installed 6.5" component at the front door, and muted the rear stock speakers. Overall is a huge upgrade, sounded so much better.
After listening over a year, i felt its not good enough. So planning to soundproof front doors, add amp and subwoofer next month.
For me i feel its a better form of 'investment' in your car rather than exterior mod cos if we change car, ICE equips can be transferred easily, provided they still function properly.

Oh shit, mine can read MP3 one ler... Guess mine is not "pure" enough. Damn, or I kena installer con???


Hmmm, interesting. I'm wondering the same thing too. Why so expensive??

Sad.. I got cheated too:( My P99 also not pure coz playing MP3 from my IPod Touch. Haiz!
This weekend going back to my installer to confront him..
Last night called him to check, he still can tell me why P99 can't drive speakers w/o amp??? Sight.. Gonna change installer soon..
Provide me with all the wrong info.

Generic hu has to accomadate transport, dac, preamp, psu, usb mp3 section, bluetooth module, internal amp and etc... all squeezed into a small platform. Hence the design must be simple to accomadate for all.
mostly uses smd components as its small

Smd is an industrial grade components. Reliable but they r not audiophile grade.

Pure deck hu onli comprise of transport, psu, preamp & dac. Hence a more complex design(better) dac, preamp stage & psu can be implemented as there is more space.

Some pure deck comes with built in proc or external.

This post has been edited by carcrazy: Mar 22 2012, 12:01 PM

$900 for component set alone.
I'm into soft vocal.

Glad to be here as I've learn loads of new stuff from gurus.

I will advise my wife not to get P99. As she's getting her new ride end this month, intended to install P99 as she already knows how to function it. But now, pointless as she don't intend to install any amp due to her small booth space and she needs it for her stuff thus only upgrade HU+a decent component. But useless now coz end of day, no sound still.
Maybe recommend her a doubledin. Atleast something different..

Cheers!

No need so high end. P80 very good already. alternatively can install a good used 2ch amp under the seat.

Don't think she wants any amp. Ask her to get a doubledin with reverse camera. Lol..

dun create another confusing statement..some ppl may take it serious.....

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Added on March 22, 2012, 12:57 pmNO

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Added on March 22, 2012, 12:58 pmNo need to guess, it's as wat you said

This post has been edited by howiechoo: Mar 22 2012, 12:58 PM

P99 can read MP3. I was just joking. (People now a days very tension~~)

Below are the main features:
Main Features

Plays:
=Your CD collection (including CD-R, CD-RW)
MP3, WMA, WAV, AAC compressed audio files on CD and USB
=Works With
Your iPod, iPhone or USB device
Other music devices via a front auxiliary input
=Front Panel
Motorized Flap Face Plate
=Key Illumination Yes
=Rotary Commander Yes
Remote Control Included (Steering wheel)

It also have 31 band digital equalizer.

It is actually a worthy HU, ONLY if you pair it with an amp.

But P80-PRS is actually more than enough, for most.

most cars install amp under front seat. cheaper as shorter length power/grounding cables, shorter length speaker cables, shorter RCA..hence u can go for better cables as opposed to local/china brand.
kow tim!!.. P99 + amp + front speakers + optional active sub under front driver seat.. results: u will love ur ride even more!!

to further improve NVH the car, damp the cabin floor + roof + doors + noise barrier + foam all pillars and door sills..
superb car to drive!! if budget permits!

change to quieter and better all rounder tyres. ask quazacolt. he expert!!

cabin lights, changed to white LED
custom floormats with logo..thicker and wont slip
3M tint - for superb optical clarity + heat rejection
Gzoz the car for exterior protection
Install Air Ionizer, MedKlinn automotive

dats a nice project! hehe


This post has been edited by carcrazy: Mar 22 2012, 02:09 PM

where got expert, baru learning study etc.

and yeah my amp is under my passenger seat, and cabin lights changed to white LED at Howie, loving it a ton, even my family member also said nice

Ini you teach ppl to mod car to love ICE??

Its a overall effect...when the car feels good the sound will be good too..hehe

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Added on March 22, 2012, 3:13 pmMy ie core transformer prototype arriving this week...so excited.
Its for custom power supply, able to generate 260v dc 5 ampere for tube preamp car audio usage.

The whole core is soaked into lacquer.
My nos1960s mullards has been hibernating too long

This post has been edited by carcrazy: Mar 22 2012, 03:38 PM

it seems that most if not all head units really have lower power internal amplifier, mainly because that is supposed to be a job for an external/add-on amp. because mostly, the head unit limited space, 1-DIN.

now there are some cars who have 2-DIN slots. is there a head unit that has powerful amps enough that is stored on the 2nd DIN area?

the usual higher amp head units like most Alpine and some Blaupunkt have 18W RMS only. Pioneers even have lower, only 14W RMS. I think the OEM head units are even lower than that.

i've seen JVC KW-XR416 has 20W RMS, its 2-DIN and costs below RM400. i saw an old model Alpine CDA-9815 (can MP3 but no USB) that has a V-Drive MOSFET that delivers 27W RMS for a 1-DIN player.

the most i knew is the Alpine KTP-445 which is an add-on for compatible Alpine head units, which upgrades the output to 45W RMS. but it think that one is not cost efficient since it would cost like another head unit.

i wonder what is a quality head unit that is 2-DIN and uses the space it has for a better amp?

This post has been edited by jtdc: Mar 22 2012, 03:56 PM

no matter how many rms a 1 or 2 din can generate, it will never exceed 45rms as the heat dissipation issues....just get an external amp and save the money on other items....those pnp amp are not cheap to play with compare to their performance....

^ this. that's why its normally opted to just get an external amp and get over the speaker driving power requirements.

i'm a bit interested in these things now, mainly not much about the money. its about the space, and elimination of an amp. thanks howie for the small bit of info you give me, i really learned alot from you. whenever i have idle time, i read on these things now.

This post has been edited by jtdc: Mar 22 2012, 04:03 PM

just a quick check. Can a 4ch amp run both front comp and a sub?

well, if u really wanna save space with some decent sound, check out my blaupunkt amp that are plug and play with ur car

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Added on March 22, 2012, 4:08 pmdefinitely yes, that's what i gonna do to your car later

This post has been edited by howiechoo: Mar 22 2012, 04:08 PM

thats what i am running on

thx!

Simple question, how much you bought for the p99?

I dun think there's any 2din that will outperform a similarly priced 1din. and any internal amp will NOT outperform a dedicated 50w rms external amp. Go try howie's 30w blaupunkt if you really wanna save space. but seriously there's no diff between a 4X7in amp and a 8X6in amp under the seat.

900 for ameron component?
Soft vocal? Same here.
Get the new p80prs instead, i think it is more than enough for normal ice player~

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Added on March 22, 2012, 7:59 pmWuu, mod in proton/perodua to have the bmw/merc feel

This post has been edited by will92: Mar 22 2012, 07:59 PM

What?? 900 for ameron components?? Where u buy it bro? Is this model have motorised panel? If got, it will be a must have one

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Added on March 23, 2012, 10:52 amIf I change my Saga stock speaker to a good ones first (Front n Rear) without changing my HU, is there any different in sound quality performance? If got, how many percent?

This post has been edited by geniuz: Mar 23 2012, 10:52 AM

30-50% depending on the speakers

Wow!! Thats great!! but what kind of speaker it is?

This post has been edited by geniuz: Mar 23 2012, 12:47 PM

63.27%.

please provide specifications, definitions and formulas on how did you concluded on the value "63.27%"

Have to ask him la bah, even my cap-ayam component is only rm499 ~
U mean p80prs? Dont know lea, have to ask unker howie, if u confirm take this hu, remember to inform me, i want audit

Change speaker? I would say 40%, another 60% is after u change to a good hu, and after some.... tuning(erhrm)..

This post has been edited by will92: Mar 23 2012, 09:56 PM

Over a year back. Got it at sgd1300+-.

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Added on March 23, 2012, 10:41 pmFrom my installer..
It's a plain silver speaker w/o any logo. Not those with Ameron logo printed on the front. Those rm200-300+ can get already.

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Added on March 23, 2012, 10:46 pmBefore I purchased, I've compared price with Singapore, same set cost sgd4++. So I got at rm900 still slightly cheaper.

This post has been edited by Prince of Darkness: Mar 23 2012, 10:55 PM

So.. Now, how is your setup actually? P99 plus ameron component plus .....?

4cha+2cha+mona block+cap+3"mid+12" sub.
P99 connected to IPod Touch.
SP: 3layers for 4doors, 2layers for floor, A-pillar, B-pillar, arch wheel.
Replacing current amps, sub and cap. Still hunting..

Interesting setup.. Wish to try your ice and listen how they sound~

Basic sound nothing much actually.
I'm base in Singapore. Installer in JB, opposit tebrau city jusco. We can catch up around that area if you are near by.

Cheers!

That's far, i'm based in selangor

i am nearby..

hi howie when you have time kindly PM me what this amp is, and your recommended space saving subwoofer that can pair with it. then the headunit i want to take advantage of your promo or any used stuff as well. thanks.

Yeah me to Mr Howie.... Thanks

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1960584&hl=

I think I wanna change my stock speakers first. What brands should i hunting if i wanna play SQ?

Based purely on the above, I would say go get Scanspeak.
But I wont be rude, so first I'll ask, what's you budget?

Scanspeak...?? What is so special with this speaker bro? Any comments? Around 3k perhaps ......

Exceptional clarity, tonality and dynamics, when tuned correctly.
If 3k is your speaker budget, then go for Scanspeak Discovery (rm1.8k) with custom passives (rm1.2k). Used Scans without passives would be better. Used Vifa 2way WITH passives also ok (XT25 & PL17 around rm900).
If 3k is your total system budget, then go for used P80RSII (HU), Morel Maximo (component speakers), used 2ch amp (Focal, TRUTech, Zapco). need a bit more budget for cables and installations.

Some used Scans and Vifa available at icehifi.com

Thanks for your recommendation bro. I will try to survey ipoh area first what the best speaker/combination that they can offer with my budget.

What your system setup anyway bro?

np bro. ppl normally take a few months to survey. so dun rush. a lot of times its cheaper and better to drive down to pj to do your system. ipoh isnt so far away.

My system is full of commonly unknown brands. Have to experience to appreciate.

agree with krayden, most importantly is dont rush.

btw krayden, slight OT: can provide details on your mids/mid bass again? kinda forgotten and am very interested for future references. can also PM if not convenient for you to disclose

Quazacolt.
U like the mids? Wat do u like about it

lol...... quaza............
kindly do a short review please, be honest, then you can have any info you want.

for mids:
i think the separation is nice and clear. vocals can be on the down side and i assume that is due to tuning/preference, however assuming it can be tuned to my liking, this could be looked into as well. again, collecting info/references so when the time comes for my next step in ICE, i'll be ready

mid bass:
very Strong and precise punch, full of energy that you can feel for sure. cant think of any cons for this, maybe soundproofing requirement (eg: cost) considering the bass it can produce?

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Added on April 2, 2012, 6:44 pmis the above "short review" enough? i think anymore would be a bit OT ady

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 2 2012, 06:44 PM

Thanks for your honest review
The original component was design not to mate with alpine f#1 tweets. But nonetheless its still a worthwhile effort with krayden's system. The mids has a analog circuit high pass filter of 90hz. It can be brought down to 80 or even 70hz for bass lovers.

The mids is known as renovatio, a product of audio creations. Still yet to officially launch

We are in the midst of developing 3 way renovatio mkII with rear-field. Ur welcome to audit when its ready

Sorry OT for hijacking ur thread

i see, thanks for the info

just to clarify, both mids/midbass are also renovatio? any ETA when your mkII is ready for audition?

btw thread isnt mine, and i guess TS can benefit from the additional info here

i see, thanks for the info

just to clarify, both mids/midbass are also renovatio?
yes and the actual wirh renovatio tweeter too

any ETA when your mkII is ready for audition?
3months as currently rushing for custom HTS systemfor a confirmed order

thread isnt mine, and i guess TS can benefit from the additional info here

Yeah... REally got a lot of infos here. But no harm guys... All forumers always can give opinion and infos here for the audio enthusiasm out there

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Added on April 2, 2012, 10:23 pmWhich area of PJ that I can go and survey bro? Mind to share the place? And also hope the taukeh can passion of answering my noob questions

This post has been edited by geniuz: Apr 2 2012, 10:23 PM

for PJ area id recommend either KF audio (aman suria) or audio creations (LYN member carcrazy is 1 of the owner btw) at niuchexui damansara ara

Thanks for the infos.... Only one problem, if got any faulty so I have to travel back to PJ for rectify it

or you can also find howiechoo from EA autoworks, high way from ipoh quite easy to goto his place straight away lol.
but yea, if got shit happen, have to go back PJ.

from experience, he also have customers that came all the way from kelantan or something (cant remember lol) to do their ICE at his place

there's less chances u will have problem with ice if it's properly done...but shit does happen sometimes..

Oh ya, that day got the hiss noise when playing songs i think is ipad problem.. I tried with friend's iphone 4s(using the ori music player software) and the noise disappear ..

hehe....seems like u gonna change another gadget

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Added on April 3, 2012, 10:11 pmsaga blm door soundproof





if you wan good sound, this is a must:)

This post has been edited by howiechoo: Apr 3 2012, 10:11 PM

wow nice! how much does it cost for 4 doors?

Mr howie choo please check my sound proof when you r back this weekend !!! So jealous sial haha do itmyself bro can not figure out what problem

Nice.. Going to soundproof mine.. ... .... One day.. ... ... Perhaps