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 GENNEVA MALAYSIA, some facts.., READ and UNDERSTAND

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zoff
post Oct 8 2012, 06:05 PM

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Bernard Madoff's Ponzi took years to surface. If you analyse his scheme: Investor number 1 deposits 1 million dollars. Madoff pays 10% p.a. He skims off some of the money for his own pocket and invest the rest; he can easily achieve returns of 5% p.a on conservative investments like bonds. Which means the investor's own money can pay himself 10% p.a. for 10 years. The next investor's million can pay investor no. 1 and himself for five year and so on down the pyramid. Which means the scheme can sustain for decades if Madoff can get a constant flow of investors over time.
Take a look at Genneva. You give Genneva 1 million. You get 750K back immediately (in gold bullion) and another 240k over a period of 1 year. Which means returns from Genevva is actually 100% per annum. An incredible yield if you ask me. After payment of commission, expenses and promoters' profits, your initial deposit will pay yourself for say 8 months. The next investor's million will last 4 months and so on down the line. Which means Genneva have to generate a profit of more than 100% p.a. to sustain the hibahs. They must have some great "blue ocean strategies" or whatever fantastic magical formula in gold trading to generate that kind of returns! Failing which they cannot last more than 2 years unless they recruit many times more downlines.

You have to remember, of your 1 million deposited, Genneva has only 250K of your money in hand to produce a hibah of 240k p.a.
Still not convinced this is a ponzi scheme?
zoff
post Oct 8 2012, 06:49 PM

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As I have said. Returns form Genneva is actually 100% per annum and not 24% because of every ringgit given to Genneva, they have only 25 sens left to "invest" as they have bought 75 sens worth of gold from the market and given this back to the buyer. This 75 sen is no longer available to Genneva to put to use to generate income. They are using 25 sens to generate 24 sens of income per year plus a few percent more for business expenses.

Now with their secret patented blue ocean formula for making money at 100% annual returns, an initial investment of 10 million will make one a BILLIONAIRE in JUST 6 years!!! by doubling every year. Why do the promoters bother to set up Genneva when each of them can be billionaires in 6 years by trading gold using their secret patented formula.
zoff
post Oct 8 2012, 07:37 PM

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Can any master traders who worked for Genneva contact me. I assume some of you are out of work now after the BNM raid. I want him to trade my money whereby 25 rgt can produce at least 25 rgt a year. I want to invest 1 million rgt. In 15 years my million will grow to 327,680 million making me the richest man in the world. I will give you a 50 % cut as I do not need so much money.
zoff
post Oct 9 2012, 10:04 AM

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Income tax and Genneva

Genneva is a trading company, so margin collected from sale of gold is recognized as gross profit. In banking, deposits are Liabilities. Hibah is a voluntary GIFT, a present just like giving diamonds to your girlfriend or money to your children Hibah is not a business expense and cannot be deducted from income tax.

Genneva's Profit and Loss account can look something like this:

revenue from sale of gold...................1,000 million
cost of sale..........................................750 million

Gross profit from sale of gold........................250 million
profit from gold investment (as claimed)........250 million

Less expenses 50million

Net profit before tax....................................450 million

Hibah is not an allowable expense, so not counted.

Tax liability based on 450 million profit!!!!!

You can see how Genneva can be charged for tax evasion, unless they have paid 100 plus million to IRB.
zoff
post Oct 9 2012, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(KentPhan @ Oct 9 2012, 05:40 PM)
Thanks for your feedback. I don't mind sharing with you my shame investment experience.

In the past 20 years, my investments are really diversified, which including properties, shares in Bursa and SGX, unit trusts, insurance saving, foreign FDs, FDs, saving, gold saving from MBB and Singapore UOB, AS1M, newly acquiring perpertual bonds of Genting Singapore and also, Forex via FXCM.

I have made some big money and also, losing some big money. Overall, plus and minus, as per my excel records,  the past 20 years returns me with around 6% average annuity. This is as good as the EPF dividend declared in last year.

Why not, put all the money into EPF or AS1M, rather works so hard for all kinds of investments.  cry.gif

That why my eye is so RED when knowing Genneva investors were earning 25% annuity. They make me look so stupid!!!
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Correction: Genneva investors get 100% p.a. returns not 25% p.a. Investors hand over 100 to Geneva, gets back 75 on the spot in gold. I.E. they effectively deposited only 25 with Genneva, having got 75 in change immediately. The 25 generate income of 24 per year. 100% returns.
zoff
post Oct 10 2012, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(b00n @ Oct 9 2012, 10:13 PM)
as long as the court case is on, they cannot reveal anything.
Those cases are still going on but is it BNM delaying? Or company directors not attending court? Or the flaw in our court system?
Look at most major court cases, dragged for years. But honestly don't know who's fault it is.
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Most commercial crime cases take years. The stakes are very high for the accused. If they lose they go to jail. Who wants to go to jail? Their lawyers will use all kinds of delaying tactics to postpone hearings. When the trial starts, tons of documents will have to be presented. Numerous witnesses from both side will have to be called. Then win or lose, both sides will appeal the judgement all the way up to the federal court. The accused are not your common street criminal; they have a lot money to hire the best lawyers to defend themselves. The prosecution in this case has filed a FEW HUNDRED charges against the accused.
zoff
post Oct 10 2012, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(terry8 @ Oct 9 2012, 08:53 PM)
I totally agree with you. How money blinds the eyes and numb the brains. They just don't know that the money come from themselves and other investors
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I now understand the New Age Hedging Thingy. I have an acquaintance who can generate 120% profits per year. He is what we locals call Ah Long. He lends money at 120% P.A. Maybe that is this New age hedging system! Only thing this is RIBA, so not Syariah compliant. That is why they are declared so in July.
zoff
post Oct 10 2012, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Oct 10 2012, 10:58 AM)
Serenity22,

May i understand:
a. which good counter gives average dividends of 12-20%pa?
b. ASN averages 9%pa?! U mean ASB and 8%pa+/- right?
c. EPF - averages 6%pa? Your average is past 2 years or past 5 to 10 years?

I must be living in another reality if your averages are true  sweat.gif
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I have always wondered about ASB. 8% year after year, in good times and bad times. Redemption s are always less than subscription year after year for the fund. Also dividends are paid in units rather than cash. So there is never a cash flow problem. There is no mutual fund in the world that can more or less guarantee a ROI of 8% pa even when markets crash. This is the best investment in the world quite the same returns as Bernard Madoff's return of 10% average on his funds.
zoff
post Oct 10 2012, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Oct 10 2012, 04:39 PM)
Genneva is code name for scam. A lot scam use the title Geneva Convention gold medal winner to scam people. They said their product is winner of Geneva Gold medal when its not really something good.

Geneva is overused scam name.
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You are right. Switzerland after all is the favorite place for hiding ill gotten gains; favored by drug lords and dictators. Con men like names like Swiss cash, Geneva etc. Geneva after is the Banking capital of the world for "secret" accounts.
zoff
post Oct 10 2012, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Oct 10 2012, 05:33 PM)
just wondering, how a con man can be called a dato...
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there are some commodities that money can buy.
zoff
post Oct 10 2012, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(thurtin @ Oct 10 2012, 06:39 PM)
I am not an investor. Hell, I don't even really care about investment related stuff, but this whole Genneva Gold is really fascinating to me. I've been staying up late, reading up on the whole saga.

I find it quite incredulous (and hilarious) that the victims are calling BNM perompak and clueless. Imagine that. BNM is renowned globally with strict and conservative banking laws. I understand that thanks to a lot of the policies in place, we can be glad that we are not in a deeper hole economically than we are right now. 

Nevertheless, these victims are questioning BNM's authority and pretty much the laws of this land as well because the danger of their hard earned money vanishing. I really loved how one mamat on the Genneva Gold Support Group FB page is trying to equate paying an Air Asia ticket in advance to illegal deposit taking. Suddenly, everyone is an expert on financial laws in this country. LOL.

This also really shows how people can be easily blinded by greed, and how common sense (which is really not that common) can be thrown out of the window.

"Ha, 25% return on investment? Better than EPF wei! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" 

Anyways, I am really keen to see what BNM decides. My honest and uneducated opinion is that this is a classic Ponzi scam. You can call it whatever you want, but I am of the school of thought that there are no free lunches in this world.

My thought goes out to all genuine victims, but I'm sorry. At the end of the day, you are responsible for your own decisions and actions. You live and die by them. If you survive this, you should never make the same mistake again.
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It seem that the pro Genneva camp has left this forum. I no longer see any postings defending or singing praises for Genneva. Maybe they finally saw the light that Genneva is indeed a classic ponzi.
zoff
post Oct 11 2012, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 11 2012, 10:39 AM)
Pat always says

HAVE A BLESSED DAY!   

methinks she is sayin it to  HERSELF.......afterall Genneva is financing her sonny boys' education.

Added on October 11, 2012, 10:43 amNOW that BNM has DECLARED the following:
It is up to the companies to REFUTE the statement ..............
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Criticizing BNM for their actions is akin to attacking the police for taking action against a criminal. You get robbed, the police apprehends the robber, you stand up for the robber and criticize the police. Unless you still didn't know you have been robbed or worse is an accessory to the robbery.

The thing I do not comprehend is this: The Genneva 1 people are the same as Genneva 2. They have been charged in court and released on bail, yet they can continue in the same type of scam in a different guise; much like a rapist out on bail vitimising other victims .
zoff
post Oct 11 2012, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 11 2012, 10:51 AM)
How does one post on the GenSupporter facbook?

Added on October 11, 2012, 10:52 am
Problem is conviction.........they were not YET convicted of any crimes.
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I know. Just like the rapist charged but not yet convicted. They are OUT ON BAIL. There are conditions on bail. When a person is charged with a crime, the court allows you to POST BAIL. Some offences like murder are non bailable whereby the accused is held in prison even before he is convicted pending trail.
Other non-capital offences are bailable. Accused or others puts a sum of money or other surety to secure bail. If he cannot raise the amount, he will be locked up. A rapist out on bail (NOT CONVICTED YET) if he commits another rape and is caught will usually not be granted bail pending trail for both cases as he will be considered a threat to society. Similarly with Genneva, when the are out ON BAIL and do a similar stunt, BAIL SHOULD BE WITHDRAWN and the accused locked up pending trail.
zoff
post Oct 11 2012, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 11 2012, 11:19 AM)
GOod catch!    thumbup.gif
PAT LU at her most deluded
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1826578/+40
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If these same people are charged, the DPP should ask the court to deny bail on the grounds that they are a flight risk. They can easily escape to other countries despite having their passports impounded as they may have hundreds of millions stashed away. And secondly they will be free to continue setting up similar schemes as they have done before.
zoff
post Oct 11 2012, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(soundsyst64 @ Oct 11 2012, 11:31 AM)
http://www.facebook.com/GennevaMalaysiaSupporters
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On this page there is a certificate of authenticity by KL Assay office. It say NON DESTRUCTIVE TEST using x-ray florescence spectrometry. If you read the web site of a Chinese manufacturer of TUNGSTEN GOLD; it says with an 1/8 inch thick coating of gold on tungsten, X-ray F. S. CANNOT detect the product. You need a destructive test, i.e. cut the bar to see if there is tungsten inside. It is possible that the small pieces, 100gm or less is pure gold, but are the kilo bars genuine? Now that Genneva is dead, I would urge owners of kilo bars to send the gold for DESTRUCTIVE testing. After all these bars are certified by themselves.
zoff
post Oct 11 2012, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(arubin @ Oct 11 2012, 02:36 PM)
And they have the cheek to complain that BNM blocked them from posting on their FB page. Complain about censorship but they censor themselves. rclxms.gif
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You should try to disguise your posting as supportive. Praise Gennva for being so innovative as being able to take 30% of your money and give you 70% in gold and 24% in Hibah in one year. Also suggest that this company should din fact be public listed and Khazana and EPF should invest in the company.
zoff
post Oct 11 2012, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(dreign @ Oct 11 2012, 03:29 PM)
Well does not it sound that way?  The hibah will enable they to go for medical and such.

Dont you think there judgement is way not right?

IN a way you are corrrect, even if I have 100 Mil  sitting in the bank doing nothing. I still cry and say no money for medical...
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What is the difference Hibah and RIBA?

Hibah : when genneva in its kindness makes a lot of money using blue ocean strategy gives you a gift.

Riba (usury): when you LEND money to Genneva and they pay you interest of 2% per month.

Riba is a serious sin in Islam. And they call it Syariah compliant.
zoff
post Oct 11 2012, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(KamikazePg @ Oct 11 2012, 05:07 PM)
can somebody get the photos of all the GM directors, shareholders and CON-sultants and posted them everywhere so that we will never be CON-ned by them again in the future even if they changed their name to Najib Loo, Mahathir Yee.....etc etc..
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I expect them to be charged in court very soon. This time the prosecutor should ask the judge to deny bail on the following grounds:

They are out on bail on genneva 1 charges and they still continue to commit the same offences.
They may abscond as they have great resources
They may use their freedom to hide assets and and move them out of the country.

If bail is allowed, it should be set at 50 million rgt each as the charges involved sums of billions.
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