Some goldsmiths when they check the purity of the gold, they need to scratch the gold..

According to my friend who is the consultant, if the gold is scratched, they will not want to buy back the gold..

Good question. The answer, Genneva's gold price is about 25% higher than price of gold quoted in the international market.

Scratching the surface would not help determine the purity of gold.
Of course no one would buy or buy back gold bullion that is deeply scratched.
There are scientific non-destructive testing methods. One goes to a chemist, an assayer, as I've done. See http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/04/1...ood-to-be-true/

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 3 2011, 12:07 PM

...Not a bad business. Selling 25% higher, and give back 18% to investor. Profit 7%.

Precisely.

Genneva’s gold price is about 5% difference compared to goldsmith shops, e.g. Poh Kong and Tomei. Goldsmith shops don’t give the same assured returns every month, so may as well buy Genneva Gold... lots of retirees are in it... and so am I, hopefully can claim to be 'retired' soon.

BTW, besides being an investor, you can also be a Consultant to sell Genneva Gold. As a consultant, you earn 0.5% of your clients' purchase price (commission paid every month too), AND for as long as they continue to renew their contract every 6 months. Pretty good as a second source of income or as a main source income. You reap what you sow. Simple as that.

Cheers and have a pleasant evening.

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Added on May 3, 2011, 6:01 pmBTW, I like your signature. The same applies to gold.

Here, share my favourite quotes. Truth be told...
1. “GOLD is still the ultimate store of wealth. It’s the world’s only true money.” — Mark Nestmann

2. "Gold and economic freedom are inseparable." — Alan Greenspan

3. "The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit." — Ralph Waldo Emerson

4. "Civilized countries generally adopt gold or silver or both as money." — Alfred Marshall

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 3 2011, 06:06 PM

But every 6 months the investor has the option to sell back the gold bar to Genneva at the actual price they paid . Example : if you pay RM 9000 for a 50 gram gold bar , you can sell back the 50 gram gold bar at the same price to Genneva 6 months later . So i cannot see how Genneva can generate profit to pay the investor 18 percent per year .

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They will make profit if the price of gold goes up. They can easily convince people because Gold price is steadily climbing. Thus they buy back old gold and sell it at a higher price.

This will only work when Gold price is on the up trend. I think no one did ask the question of the opposite; i.e. if Gold price drops. What happens then?

Good questions Empathy and b00n
Below is the explanation...

Serious investors and consultant-wannabes are most welcomed to view the spreadsheet by making an appointment to meet us at Genneva's office or nearby cafe on any working day within office hours...

I've a life too, besides answering questions and concerns related to Genneva Gold.

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 12 2011, 03:28 AM

The most prominent person in Msia also endose this investment .. Get real .. He once run our country

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Added on May 12, 2011, 11:29 amSo far the directors are still operating . Seem they are above the law

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Added on May 12, 2011, 11:34 amthe person who will lost all thier money is the latecommer who join the purchase just before the co collapse

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Added on May 12, 2011, 11:38 amwhen they start the co the use branded such UOB or PAMP bar to give to thier investor . Latter they will change to thier own bar . Now the issue is the purity of those bar.

If u trade those unknown Gold bar to a goldsmiths , u tend to lost some value frm range 25 % to 30% frm market value

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Added on May 12, 2011, 11:41 amfor bar the safest way to check is to cut the bar in half . also unknown bar normally will lost value between 25 % to 30 % of market price when traded

This post has been edited by Lycan: May 12 2011, 11:41 AM

i could not see the spreadsheets.. could you pls help?

Exactly. Listen to Tun M's Keynote Addtress at the Genneva Syariah Official Opening:

► Part 2 of 3 (A): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM8phkrEP_M

► Part 2 of 3 (B): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc8qT1EHXoA


"Under suspicion" does not mean guilty. In order not to reinvent the wheel, read my reply at http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=41968170

Cheers!

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 17 2011, 09:37 PM

5 points to consider seriously abt this scheme "-

1. The directors are charged by Bank Negara in court and the case is still pending.

2. You are buying gold at jack-up price. Price of 99.999 pure gold quoted by Maybank and Public Bank is about RM150/gram but Genneva sells to you at RM182/gram.

3. You will break even if the scheme can sustain about 15 months period because you will receive 1.5% x 15 = 22.5% return to offset the 20-25% higher price you pay.

4. How can the business model be sustainable? The company sell to you and buy-back at same price at end of 6 months period. And the company has to fork out 1.5% x 6 = 9% hibah + introducer commission + upline overriding + administration and company operation cost + etc expenses. I don't know how the company can sustain other than to use the payment by the later customers for the earlier customers. What if more people wish to redeem at the same time? Will the company has cash flow to meet the redemption? What will happen if cash flow is not enough to meet redemption? The whole scheme will collapsed.

5. Its true that you hold the gold bullion as security but the gold bullion is sold at jack-up price. What you hold is not worth the value you pay? As at 10 May 2011, Genneva quoted price of RM182/gram for 999.9 gold while Maybank only quotes RM148.39 for similar grade, a 22% price difference. If the company closes shop tomorrow, the price of RM182,000/kg that I pay for Genneva gold will only be worth RM148,390 based on Maybank quoted selling price (prevalent market price + service charge). In all, I pay RM182,000 but get back only RM148,390, a loss of RM33,610 if the company close shop before maturity period. And the total hibah of 1.5% x 6 = 9% (or RM16,380) does not measure up to the risk of loss that I have to bear.

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Added on May 18, 2011, 4:50 pmHow can the company sustain the payment for hibah, meet redemption, pay company operation expenses when the buying and selling price is the same in 6 months? Sound much like a Ponzi Scheme, those early birds will catch the worms and later ones will get burnt. Imagine the company pay to investor 1.5%/month, introducer 0.5%/month, upline 0.3%/month. Total 2.3%/month or 27.6%/year. Assuming operation/marketing cost at 1% per month or 12% per year and staff salary at 0.5% per year or 6% a year, Genneva will have to make 27.6% + 12% + 6% = 45.6% just to break even.

Possible or not, you analyse yourself.

Assuming the gold you hold as security is genuine 99.999% purity, if the company go bust, the price of RM182,000 you pay for 1 kg will only be worth RM182,000 - 25% = RM136,500 in the open market.

Is 1.5% a month return worth the risk, you judge yourself.

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Added on May 18, 2011, 5:04 pmIf no investor cash out, Genneva will make 7%. What if you are cashing out and Genneva needs to pay you back your buying price and you already make and keep the return? How will Genneva come up with the 18% yearly return and not forgetting, they also have to incur operation cost and expenses in runnng the company and paying their staff's salary.

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Added on May 18, 2011, 5:21 pmPat Lu is happy because when you buy 1kg of Genneva gold from him at RM182,000, he promises you 1.5% x 6 months = 9 % return or RM16,380 for 6 months and he will also receive 3% or RM5,460 for the 6 months period. If he is a senior consultant (upline), he will receive an additional 0.3% x 6 months = 1.8% or RM3,276. If you renew after 6 months, he will continue to receive the amount.

Imagine Genevva sell gold at RM182,000/kg and has 5 ton or 5,000 kg of gold outstanding in circulation waiting for redemption with total selling price of RM910,000,000 (RM910 million) but with premium value of 20% or RM182,000,000 (RM182 million). If the Directors decide to close down business, they will get to keep the premium that you pay of RM182 million while you keep the gold that actually worth only RM728,000,000 (RM728 million).

Bear in mind that Genevva has paid-up capital of only RM1 million.

So there is no risk to Pat Lu when he try to convince you to buy but the risk is on the investor is tremendous if the company face cash flow problem. Only the Consultant will be laughing all the way to the bank and the Directors can retire wealthily with RM182 million in anywhere in the world.



This post has been edited by Mike Teh: May 18 2011, 05:21 PM

Is right.......Good wrtiteup......many are blinded by the 1.5% p month even tho they KNOW they(the buyers) are in fact
paying themselves through the 25% PREMIUM loaded at the initial sell price!


A fool and his money are soon parted ....

I like the analysis. The company capitalizes on greed. Busted!

Hi Mike Teh,

Same here. I thought it was too good to be true two and half years ago when my uncle first told me about it and I kept warning him (exactly as you're doing here in this forum) at every CNY and every occasion we meet to encourage him to pull out before it's too late. I thought he was being naive and 'greedy.' I hope he never gets to read this comment.

However, I changed my mind late Jan this year after taking time to do indepth study into the company and the business model as more relatives and friends bought into Genneva Gold Savings Plan.

In a nutshell, Genneva Malaysia is NOT an investment house, it's a goldsmith shop with a difference, with a new business model. As we all know, no other goldsmiths share their profit as Genneva does. Genneva don't just sell gold and stop there. They have an innovative business model, the first of it's kind in the world (Made in Malaysia) and replicated in Singapore, Philippines, China and Hongkong. Genneva’s vision is to become Asia’s Largest and Fastest Growing One-Stop Gold Trading Corporation with a mission to provide investors with the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold.

To cut the long story short, so happened Genneva International Marketing Director Philip Lim gave a Genneva Gold Talk: Saving Efficiently with Gold last night. Topics include introduction to gold and money, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd and saving efficiently with Genneva Gold. Unfortunately I ran out of space on my little camera for the Q&A session. However, you can watch a couple at Genneva Gold Talk YouTube Playlist

Before we continue this discussion, lets be fair and make informed decisions. Please watch the videos first, then come back here to share your views.

If you want to cut to the chase, watch Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvu5pYNmUnE and Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXGXkv3odc

Cheers and have a pleasant weekend.

Genneva sharing profit...issit?

Genneva sells gold to the buyers at 25% above spot gold prices.
Yes, thats 25% above spot gold prices.
Whos sharing with who?

Sure its blue ocean.......for.....Genneva.....

Essentially, YOU are paying yourselves the 9% interest that you are so attracted to.....

Then theres the buyback option

a) you can sell back to Genneva at original purchase price
b) Or you can keep the gold

first of all, they say GOLDS GOING UPPPPP , so why sell? Of course most will keep the gold.

Next if you keep the gold, who the heck are you going to sell the gold to?

If you have chosen to keep, you cant sell it back to Genneva.
SO the other option maybe to sell back to jewelers.
Know how much of your flesh the jewelers are going to cut?
25 to 35%

So essentially, if you chose to sell it to Genneva, you have paid yourself 9% and paid Genneva 16% making the 25%.
Thanks for sharing!

If you keep the gold, when you sell to jewelers, you get slaughtered 25% off your gold.........

Basically Genneva is a go between to buy the gold at spot price and sell it at 25% to the buyers and
call the interest 'sharing'..... ......very ingenious.......must admit

NOWWWWW.....this is the thing....IF gold prices tanks, and EVERYone wanna sellback..........ahem......

Genneva only Rm1 mil paid up Caveat Emptor

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Added on May 20, 2011, 11:34 pm

Datuk offered 120,000 per kg while gold is worth 153,000 per kg

Who cheat who?

i buy bullion at 2460 per oz. i sell the gold at 4603 at todays spot prices.
Why Datuk only offer me 150,000?

Whos making more?

Who cheat who har?



This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 20 2011, 11:34 PM

You didn't get it. So Genneva Malaysia marks up by 25% above spot gold prices.
Jewellers such as Poh Kong and Tomei marks up by 20% from spot price, not including workmanship.
Only 5% difference yet Genneva gold merchant shares profit and it's a win-win for all.
Does the rest of the goldsmith merchants share profit? No.

Genneva having a new business model does not make it wrong or illegal. In fact, Genneva Malaysia provides the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold. It's a SAVINGS PLAN. Not "investing in gold" per se. Gold, secure in the buyers' possession, is merely a collateral. Get it?

Go watch the videos again:
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvu5pYNmUnE and Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXGXkv3odc

May as well watch Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIbf1v456rY
and Part 6 too - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqhTSe08C4

Take your time to do your homework, while the thousands of Genneva customers not only here in Malaysia but also in China, Hongkong, Philippines and Singapore, who did their homework, are enjoying their monthly returns based on Syariah principles. Read more at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/welcome/

This is what Genneva Gold 50g looks like


Jongkong Emas Pelaburan Terbaik?
Mingguan Malaysia, Ahad 19 Disember 2010: Read the full article at
http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/05/1...aburan-terbaik/

Cheers!

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 25 2011, 04:55 AM

methinks its YOU guys who are selling Genneva who dont get IT......

i can buy a similar bar minted by Genneva at SPOT.....why in the world should i pay for
25% ABOVE SPOT?
You are selling BARS NOT jewellery. Bars are not minted coins. Coins control a numis premium.
Why in the world are you comparing with jewellers? Thats the trick that Genneva is using.


You go to Perth mint to buy a gold BAR. Its quoted at SPOT GOLD prices, NOT 25% ABOVE SPOT!

i am not blinded by your sales figures of blinded customers.
Madoff sold $40b........so what? Customers were happy for a while till the bubble popped......

SO YES, essentially those who buy Genneva BARS, are paying themselves the 9% interest
that they are SO attracted to.....

From YOUR Genneva Video




Datuk offered 120,000 per kg while gold is worth 153,000 per kg

Who cheat who?

i buy bullion at Rm2460 per oz. i sell the gold at Rm4603 at todays spot prices.
Why Datuk only offer me 150,000?

Whos making more?

Who cheat who har?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 25 2011, 07:45 AM

That's a pretty dangerous thing to say. This effectively means that you give money to Genneva and they give you gold as collateral. They then take that money and invest it somewhere, and from their investment returns, they pay the agreed upon dividend back to you. The problems are that:

1. The value of the collateral they offer is less than the amount of money you invest.
2. They do not disclose how they invest that money that is capable of generating returns in excess of 18% per annum.
3. The money you pay is not held in a trust account separate from Genneva's own money.

It is quite evident that they do not in fact invest the money they get in the conventional way to generate sustainable income. Instead, they use the money they get to buy yet more gold and expand their business. Like any other pyramid scheme, their business plan will prosper only so long as they continue to keep expanding. I guess it's pretty cool that they've managed to expand their pyramid scheme outside of Malaysia but it is still at heart a pyramid scheme.

All this is not meant to convince PatEagle who is after all part of the system and obviously earns a substantial income from Genneva and whose interest is clearly to ensure that as many people sign up for the scheme as possible. It is merely meant to dissuade other people from joining in. Because PatEagle has a financial stake in this, he will never get tired of touting the scheme's benefits. While people like me who have nothing to gain will eventually get tired and bored of replying. The only hope for the good guys is that a continual stream of people will pop into this thread to periodically refute PatEagle's claims and prevent third parties from thinking that since PatEagle's claims are going unchallenged, they must be true.

Note: this is the first time I've posted in this thread.

It's OK if you don't agree . It's OK if you want to criticize . BUT please stop with your sarcastic remarks . The Finance and Business forum is for us to learn and share new things . The discussions should be done in a mature and civilized manner. This is not the Kopitiam forum where sarcasm and making fun of other ppl seem to be the norm.


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This post has been edited by Empathy: May 25 2011, 06:07 PM