Why you people still cannot pick up what I am saying one?

I am giving you "EXAMPLE". You understand what is meant by EXAMPLE or not?

Hardware shop is a trading company. If you call BNM and ask them whether can INVEST in the hardware shop or not they will tell you "BOLIH KA?

No need to proof this proof that.
If you are so positive that it is a scam why are you wasting so much of your energy and time posting here???

Go and look for "reliable" and "trustworthy" investment company lah !!
Spend your precious time there.......NOT here.

If people want to be suckers to get con by this company let them kena lah.
You have already given your expert calculation and risk factors, blah blah blah for them to analyse.
If they still got no brain and don't listen to you, it is their business loh.

There are some more 76 companies under the BNM list.

Go through them one by one and study them and give your expert advise lah.

what part of the scheme is illegal?

Now now. No &*%(%(^!%$$(!@ words please. We are civilised beings. Please be open with feedback be them -ve or +ve. We are here to discuss and check our risk appetite.

You will be surprised if you know how banks make money other than lending people/corp money with high interest. As some forummers rightly pointed out, no company will be stupid enough to disclose their strategy to make money 100%.

A check with mr google, hibah = gift, grant. Further info - genneva originally used "discount" over the purchased golds. Just like when you buy gold at pohkong where they give you discount immediately, but genneva give the discount over a few months. Now use the term hibah. Sounds syariah...

Risk is very individually linked. If you cannot tahan high risk, too bad. Can tahan, then go ahead. No point in attacking/defending without concrete evidence. Opinions and hearsays will make people more confused. Fact is, I also called BNM and like some forummers pointed out, you have to ask the right question - so, I asked "Can I buy gold from Genneva?". The answer is yes. You well know that Genneva is not an investment company, so, why ask the question "Can I invest in Genneva"? Similar to what some forummers pointed out, you ask BNM "Can I invest in xxx company"?, definitely BNM will check whether xxx co has investment/banking license and if xxx don't have the license, BNM will answer with a big no.

Which part of the announcement? The BNM recent announcement is quite generic and did not specify any company. From my understanding, BNM is trying to increase public awareness of investment risk which is their responsibility as the country's central bank.

2. I am very curious on Genneva's supply chain. Can you help elaborate?
3. I understand ponzi. However, how can ponzi work when the customer receive their purchased gold?
4. Not sure about deposit taking. Customers receive gold, right? Elaborate please.

like I give a fuk about post count. You can tell the mod to reset my post count back to 0 for all I care.  Stop being emo and post what you understand because some of us are ACTUALLY UNAWARE of BNM announcement.

Unless of course, you're the one who's trying to increase your post count.

I never knew about Geneva until now and found this thread through google while doing some research. And I beg the rest of you people...pls post facts (or submittable evidence or at least suspicions)...I tend to ignore Malaysian style emo comments no matter how long that person's post is.

You can buy gold at cheaper spot price rate, like from banks and bank gold investment but do you get returns every month? Bank gold investment is passive investment, ie wait for gold price to go up. How long to wait? What if the price of gold drops? It is obviously not attractive and the banks know it! That is why banks are giving higher interest rates for FD that are tied to the gold "investment".

By buying gold from a bona fide gold trading company, you are actively getting monthly returns regardless of stagnation or reduction in gold price as explained in my posting above.

Hope this explanation will reduce your frustration and suspense in waiting for an answer.

Before you go into gold investment, you have to ensure that:

1) the gold must be genuine (get it assayed),

2) the gold is in your possession at all times(never release it for safe-keeping by the company!),

3) the company does not cease trading before a certain number of months (% "overpaid" divided by % rebate/hibah per month), and

4) the company buys back the gold at the price it sells you.
I am not supporting Genneva or other gold trading companies but here is how it works for the doubting Thomases:

1. You buy gold at retail price (say 20% above spot/bank/wholesale price)

2. You get 2% rebate/hibah per month

3. So for those who say that the buyer is just getting back the excess money he overpaid in the first place, well, it is true and false.

4. True because you really are getting back the part of the 20% higher price you paid

5. False because after 10 months (20% divided by 2%) you would have got back all 20% excess that you have paid. If the company is still in business after 10 months and you continue to do the same, then every month you are making nett returns of 2%

6. You will only rugi if the company go bust before that 10 months because you would not have got back the 20% excess that you have paid because with the gold in hand, you can only sell it at spot/bank/wholesale price to the bank/goldsmith.

7. If the company continues trading the same beyond that 10 months, the rebate/hibah would be real and at 2%x12months = 24% per year (which is much, much higher than FD/ASN/ASB (non-Melayu no chance because of UMNO's racist policies) or what-have-you!)

8. To make it clearer, here are examples:

A. You buy 100g at RM200/g , ie. RM20k
Spot price is RM160/g , ie you "overpaid" by RM4k for the 100g
Every month you receive 2% rebate/hibah, ie RM400
If the company go bust after say 6 months, than total rebate received after 6 months = RM2,400
You sell the 100g gold at spot price RM16k
So total money you received after 6 months (and selling the gold) = RM16k + RM2,400 = RM 18,400
Which means that you rugi RM1,600 (ie. RM20k - RM18,400)

B. If the company go bust at 10 months, you break even after collecting the 10 months of rebat/hibah and selling the gold at spot price.

C. If the company continues business beyond 10 months, your returns for 100g gold investment at say 18 months would be:
18 x 2% per month of RM20k = RM7,200 (plus the 100g gold in hand)

D. If you put RM20k in FD at 3% per annum for 18 months, you would get RM900.

E. So your nett returns in your gold investment at the 18th month is RM7,200, ie. RM6,300 more than FD!
It is clear that  it is not entirely true that you are just getting back the excess money that you have paid.

If the price of gold goes up, your monthly rebate/hibah would proportionately increase even though the percentage is still the same, eg. 2% per month. It is like forced saving.

How can these company pay you such high returns?
It is from the 20% profit they automatically make when they sell you the gold at retail price because they buy it at spot price. The profit from the big difference, they buy some more gold at spot price and make more profit when they sell that 2nd round of gold to others at retail price, again making another 20% profit. It goes on..

As long as the gold company is doing gold trading and not taking deposits, BNM has no jurisdiction. The other reason where BNM can move in is money laundering. So the source of the money to buy the gold must be clear.

Who cares if the Fatwa Committee says it is non-Syariah compliant. As long as it is legal, the Islamic authorities can't touch even the Muslim investors because there is no punitive Syariah law governing such investments. It is just guilt on the part of the Muslims. But with such high returns, who cares! They are not stealing or robbing anybody unlike many of our Muslim leaders! As for non-Muslims, the Muslim authorities have no bloody right to interfere.

Don't you think it is a workable business model and not Ponzi? But to safeguard and reduce your risk in gold investment, refer back to my initial 4 precautions.

---

Added on August 13, 2012, 10:43 pm
Hence the four precautions in my first posting in this thread. As long as the gold is genuine (assayed independently with assayer's certificate) I don't think it would be difficult to sell the gold, even to banks. Price? I don't know.

The link is just definition of  "illegal deposit taking", where in the link got the words genneva? even if there is so, there are so many companies being investigated . Even Khairy Jamaluddin knows what is  called "guilty by association". Learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Investigate means guilty meh? what happened to good old "innocent until proven guilty"? If god dont judge me until i am dead, who have the right to judge me while i am alive?
Eddy, i was wondering whose mind is shut. Looking at your writeup you come across to me as an intelligent person, could it be possible you have interest in pretending to not understand?

CAn you ask doraemon killer to also remove the rubberband gun etc advert in his signiture when posting here then? i am very compassionate one. I dont shoot cicak.

no books? Can't be...its been operating for years. In this case it'll be breaching some laws already.

problem is BNM hasn't come up with a proper set of rules when it comes to gold trading/investment/etc. If you see the list of 77 companies, they're under a list of "not authorized nor approved under the relevant laws and regulations administered by BNM"

yet, in an article less than a week ago - "There is no need to obtain license or approval from BNM to operate a gold trading business in the country"

So...

Check also point 7 and examples C, D and E. If you still don't get it, I don't give a damn! I'm not going to waste my holidays entertaining an idiot!

Another thing, this is different from Ponzi because you have the gold with you (definitely worth something, don't you think so , kaka23?) instead of a worthless piece of paper  when the company go bust. At least you still have the principal.*

*ie. after you have collected monthly "hibah" amounting to the mark-up (10 months  in my example) 
NB: The above footnote is only for those who are incapable of deduction.

Hi doraemonkiller

ROFLOL!!!!! Your first paragraph reminds me of MCA asking Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng to proof he is not having an affair.     

Re. your second para... Hello, read their note:
Question.. if someone goes to your home, accuse you of all sorts of things and cause a ruckus without evidence, what would you do? 

Look forward to your reply to my question. 

What a flimsy excuse. Change of management will cause disruption until interest is not paid and the buy back period stretch 6 months until next year ? If this sort of management is running a company, then the company is hopeless 

There were so many banks change their management but I have never heard them telling their customers "patient...patient....give us a little bit of time to sort things out. We will pay your FD principal back in 6 months time..." wahahaha 

Hi anonymous me,

To an extent i do agree that there are a lot of unsupported & inconsistent posts here with regards to Genneva.....but maybe u could give us a proper depth on Genneva & how it works, ....im sure a detailed explanation on its mechanism could eliminate a lot of negative perception from the general public & for us here.....

Thanx in advance

===================

Hi Ariel,

The biz model of Geneva is supposed to be a state secret. But I shall reveal al little.

Due to the directors' personal relationship with some people high up in the hierachy of a particular State's oil authority, Genneva has a long term deal with that oil major ( I cannot reveal which one, highly sensitive) to buy oil from them at a fixed price per barrel on a long term basis, subject to a certain limit (number of barrels)  each month.

Genneva buys the oil and resell them whole-wide, earning revenue. Buy low, sell high.

When people buy gold from Genneva, Genneva uses the cash to pay for the oil they are buying.

The profit gained from sale of oil is then used to pay for the 2% discounts, also to pay for commissions, operating costs, overheads etc, as well as to pay for future buying of oil.

That's all I can say, I may be arrested for leaking state's secret if I say more.

If Genneva is a scam, it would have been closed down long time ago by the authorities.

Remember we are near to the next election. If Genneva got shut down and assets frozen, thousands affected, well, that will not look too well for BN.

My two cents.

Thanks.

There are many things going on in the oil market you guys don't know. Who actually owns the oil? A country? Or a few persons who sit in the boardroom of a company which controls and extract the oil from the oil field?

Just a simple question: who has the say in Petronas? Is it the Prime Minister? Is it BN?

That's why you are posting unproven things here.

It is not called greed. It is creating wealth for the layman.