Hi guys,


An engine-oil change will be due for my 20 year old car engine soon;

Currently, this old engine is using the Shell 15W - 40 Mineral engine-oil - (without having any white/blue smoke problems at all).

But for this coming engine-oil change, I am planning to go for the Shell 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic engine-oil; which has a lower-viscosity - (it will be a thinner engine-oil grade for this old engine).

I would like to put a lower-viscosity (thinner-grade) engine-oil into this old engine to improve it's fuel-efficiency & horsepower. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

However, I do not want to see any white/blue smoke issues pouring out from this engine after filling it with the lower-viscosity engine-oil...

So the thing is, what (the name of the components/parts) can I tell the mechanic to check/change inside this old engine - (that will minimize or eliminate the possibility of the white/blue smoke issue from happening?)


Your information/advice will be highly appreciated.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 1 2012, 03:13 AM

tukar minyak dulu, see got white smoke or not. if you jaga the engine well, shouldnt be a problem..
because, to check /change inside the old engine would mean, at the minimun, a top haul ? at a maximun, an overhaul... ?

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Added on February 1, 2012, 3:38 ambut im no sifu,, masih noob, masih mau belajar.. so do correct me if im wrong


This post has been edited by ultramaman: Feb 1 2012, 03:38 AM

Yea, try first then only you will know got problem or not. Even without smoke you will have to check your engine oil level regularly.

does your engine leak oil? although no blue or white smoke.

mechanic will just only check any leakage from your engine (oil seal,gasket, oil filter) and ask you monitor your engine oil after change to semi.

Once you changed, you need to monitor your engine oil level daily (for 2 week) then move to weekly and so on if you don't see oil level drop.

if u really wann improve fuel effieciency n performance, better try 5w30 / 10w30..

if u change from 15w40 to 10w40, protection better? yes. performance? vry vry the tiny

i will say not much different other than the protection offered from semi synthetic upgrading from mineral.

in malaysia's hot weather, you can disregard the first value of the viscosity, just treat it as xw40, in which case, your viscosity is the same - 40

15w40 and 10w40 totally no different....

if 15w40 to 5w30 or 10w30 should have different in term of performance....but how well its going to protects ur 20yrs old engine...its in doubt

I reckon it is also not a good idea to let the mechanic open up this old engine to check here & there... I worried later need to end up doing a full-overhaul. (Because now the engine is still running perfectly fine. )

Oh my, I've never been checking my engine oil level at all... (I'll keep it in mind to occasionally check from now on...)

So far, this old engine does not have any oil leaking problems at all, but I reckon I should start the practice of checking the oil level from time to time...

Will the mechanic have to open up the whole engine to check the "oil seal & gasket"? (Maybe this two components is something I can tell the mechanic to check/replace if necessary...)

But the issue with the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade is that it won't offer so much protection (as the 10W - 40 grade) when the engine (and the weather) gets hotter isn't it? (It will break down faster under higher-temperature & possibly cause sludge build-up isn't it?)

But how come the mechanic (last time) advice me not to go down to 5W - 40 (a thinner oil grade) from my current 15W - 40 (a thicker oil grade), because he told me that the engine oil will start leaking (because it will be too "thin" for my old engine to handle...)

Hence, I don't think the 10W - 40 engine-oil is having the "same" viscosity-level as the 15W - 40 engine-oil (which will naturally still be the thicker oil)...

Correct me if I got it wrong...

Again, I still think that the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade is "thinner" than the 15W - 40 grade. (However, both engine-oil grades will be having the same "resilience-level" at high-temperatures.)

Again, I am worried that the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade will not be as good as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade in protecting my engine at higher-temperatures (hotter weather & longer idling in traffic-jams etc... as such.) Because it will break down faster than the 10W - 40 grade engine-oil... (I think...)

Now assuming there is a 10W - 60 engine-oil grade, it's viscosity-level will still be exactly the same as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade, but the 10W - 60 engine-oil grade will be having a significantly higher/better "resilience-level" at higher-temperatures (it will take longer for it to break-down under higher-temperatures - the oil will have a significantly better chance to last longer).

Correct me if I'm wrong. (I hope I am not confused...)

Thanks a lot to you guys BTW.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 12:27 AM

you can change mechanic then if he is even paying regards towards the xw viscosity value in our malaysian never freeze/winter weather.

Just out of curiosity, what will happen if I put the 0W - 50 engine-oil grade into my old engine? (According to articles, a 0W grade oil will pour like water, so I reckon my old engine will be able to take it, as it will be far too thin/watery... )

But are you saying that the "viscosity" of the engine-oil is determined not by the xW (0W/5W/10W/15W/20W) number, but instead, by the number after it (like the 30/40/50)?


BTW (I always noticed);

That 20W - 50 is always a (cheaper) mineral based engine-oil.

But 0W - 50 is always a (more expensive) "fully-synthetic" based engine-oil.

Why is that so?



This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 03:21 AM

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. [B]The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades.
Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.
Note that the SAE has a separate viscosity rating system for gear, axle, and manual transmission oils, SAE J306, which should not be confused with engine oil viscosity. The higher numbers of a gear oil (e.g. 75W-140) do not mean that it has higher viscosity than an engine oil.[/B]

sauce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

Malaysia does not have winter.

=edit=
to your second edited question:

because mineral, semi synthetic, and full synthetic are completely different oil properties/blend, and thus priced differently. Additives, blending and ultimately branding determines the price of an engine oil. Thus you may encounter cheap/non-reputable brand fully synthetic can be cheaper or around the same price as a reputable/good branded semi synthetic oil, which may in most cases, out performs the cheap/non-reputable full synthetic oil.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Feb 2 2012, 03:27 AM

I'm not sure, but all of this is really quite confusing to me...

But generally, I always noticed that 20W - 50 is always the (cheaper) "mineral" based engine-oil that is always mentioned to be (too thick) and highly-recommended to be used in older car engines...

0W - 50 on the other hand is always the (more expensive) "fully-synthetic" engine-oil that is only recommended to be used in brand-new car engines... (because it is too thin to be used in older car engines...)

How true is that?

In addition, I have also never ever came across a 20W - 50 engine-oil that is "fully-synthetic" before... (Why isn't there any out there?)
And I have also never ever came across a 0W - 50 " engine-oil that is "mineral" based before... (Why is that so?)

I really don't know, but going for a lower second number such as the xW - 30 (like you said) will mean that my engine will have lesser protection at higher-temperatures..., as well as the engine-oil will also "break-down" faster and hence; need to be replaced faster (because of lower endurance/resilience to heat)... (Isn't it?)

But based on your information/theory; the 0W - 50 grade will be one heck of a super "thick" engine-oil isn't it? (I thought that the racing industry already no longer uses thick/super-thick engine-oils for their race vehicle's engines anymore... ) - I was informed that now a days all racing vehicles are using much thinner fully-synthetic based engine-oils (for a higher-performance), such as the 0W - 50/0W - 60 grade, that comes with the same high resistance/endurance to heat & sheer at high temperatures...


For example;

According to my understanding, an engine-oil with a grade of 0W -50 means that this particular oil is thin (super-thin), it flows very easily, but yet it also has the incredibly high resistance to heat & sheer at higher-temperatures; it will not break down easily, and is very ideal to be used in brand new high-performance racing engines...

This is what I understand, though I am still looking forward to the correct answer/information (if mine is really incorrect). I'm also definitely in to learn more.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 04:25 AM

before we all proceed to answer anything, i think it is best that you read up the wiki on how motor/engine oil works, and its ratings, SAE standards and additives.

and please do us all a favor and ignore the xw rating (10w50 20w50)
it will save you a lot of confusion, and a lot of effort from the rest in answering something that really serve no purpose.

unless of course you are planning to drive your car in the snow or really cold countries, then we can discuss further (which may be a lost cause since the majority of us doesn't do so and may not have the experience to help)

Nvm, I would put aside my doubts for now.

It would be better to return back to the main topic for now (although further discussions on engine-oils will always be more than welcomed.);


So which engine-oil grade would you experienced guys in here recommend me to put inside my old engine for this coming service?

Currently I'm using the 15W - 40 Mineral-based.

But if I would like to have a higher engine performance, easier & less-damaging cold starts (without the need to warm up the engine for so long), and better fuel-efficiency; which engine-oil grade would you guys recommend me to use?

Is it xW - 30? (Or any other grades?)

Should I go for fully-synthetic?

I'll really appreciate your help/advice.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 04:56 AM

what viscosity rating does your car engine specification says? do you have blue/white/or any color, be it rainbow color smoke coming out from your car currently?

and for a car as old as yours (20years old) i dont think its worth it to pour in full syn. good full syn oils are well over rm200 for 4liters. if you're feeling rich, you may proceed eitherway.
good semi syn are around rm100-130 for 4 liters.

Sorry, I really have no idea what oil viscosity-rating does my car engine specs states, however, this engine has always been using the 20W - 50 mineral-based oil in the past.

There have not been any blue/white/other color smoke coming out from the exhaust-pipe so far.


I am still having the Shell 10W - 40 semi-synthetic oil in mind; also because of it's engine-cleansing quality advertised. (However, I am opened to your recommendations.)

But if I ever see a xW - 30 oil-grade from Shell, then I will be going for that instead of the above... (Because like you guys had said, the "30" denotes a thinner oil grade than "40" which will increase engine performance & fuel-efficiency...)


The other two engine-oil grades I have always been seeing from Shell (in stores & workshops) is the 15W - 40 Mineral (which I'm using currently), and the 5W - 40 Fully-Synthetic (which could be pointless for this old engine like you said...). Hence, I will select the 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic from Shell for this next oil change, but it would be good if you can also leave some of your recommendations in here, if you have any.



This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 06:33 AM

in very laymen terms, just think of the viscosity rating as how thin/thick the oil is. the lower the number the thinner, and like wise higher number = thicker.

ok so you have been using xw50 mineral based all the while right?
no color smoke or drain right?*
* - constant need to top up, by right, with good oil and good car/engine conditions you dont even need to top on every OCI, *AT MOST* maybe 1 time top up just to keep oil at optimal levels

if its yes to all the above, then give a try on xw40 semi synthetic (or xw30 if that fancies you). my personal recommendation is either liqui moly, or torco. more towards liqui moly considering your 20 years old car. (read up the oil review thread, or look up elton's liqui moly thread, can also view my posts only in said threads for my review/feedback)

shell semi synthetic isn't as good as advertise. however, it isn't bad either. more towards what you pay is what you get (LM/torco are much more expensive than shell per say)

may i know what car is that using 20yrs old++ engine?

Quazacolt, thanks a lot.

However, I'm still in doubt as to whether the 0W - 50 engine-oil (from Mobil for example); is really a very "thin" or a "very-thick" engine-oil? (Because the way Mobil promotes & advertises it, is as if this oil is a very ultra "thin" super-grade engine-oil that can still 100% protect the engine and can also "withstand super high-temperatures" at the same time; which is very ideal for the high-performance/racing type engines as they say... ) They also mentioned that this 0W - 50 performance oil provides maximum fuel-efficiency... (Which seems to denote an engine-oil that is "thin"...)

But how is the above so-called "super-oil" different from the (much cheaper) 20W - 50 engine-oil grade (that I've always been using)? (Since in Malaysia's climate, the xW number in the front does not matters...?)

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Added on February 3, 2012, 6:16 pmFord-Laser 1600cc (Carburetor) Manual 5-Speed Transmission. (A very durable engine with strong-torque.)

But I'm getting quite bored with this car now, so I have plans to go for a different car soon.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 3 2012, 06:16 PM

TS,
Personally, I dun see much significant difference of u switching over from 15W-40 to 10W-40 grade lubes mainly as explained in earlier posts tat d 1st rating is for winter n not applicable for our hotter climate. If u were to switch from lubes with different maximum viscosity limits (like my familys >20yr ol car previously on 20-50 mineral -> 15-40 semi-syn), then u'll should b able to notice d engine revving easier.

D main reason mechanics dun recommend thin lubes for older cars is coz d engine has suffered higher wear n hear n would require thicker oil for protection. Another common excuse is to prevent/minimize blow-bys since older blocks might have leaking seals allowing thinner oils tat evaporate easier to exit d blocks at d wrong places.