Photos from Falubaz (SSC)

Busan Metro

so korean only use chinese character for place name?

They use Hanja to refer names.

Major exception is Seoul, because it has no corresponding Hanja.

nice design

The abandoning of Hanja usage is one of the most WTF in Korean language. Especially when most of the words are borrowed from Chinese language. Nowadays, if you ask a kid why certain words are pronounced as such, they can't answer.

i see a lot of zero n hook there

This post has been edited by atombom123: Dec 15 2011, 09:02 PM

1,2,3 also chinese wan?

in a way, but it makes korean learning the language easier compare to learning chinese..but i guess the problem is lack of vocabulary..

in korean - Hanja

In hokkien - han ji

in mandarin - han zi

in english - han language

??

Wrong.

Chinese characters is the term in English.

you are alert

I don't think there is a problem of vocabulary, there are still plenty of words. The problem is with identifying homophones i.e. words with same sound and spelling but different meanings. If they were spelled with Hanja, you'd see the difference right away.

Of course, this isn't a problem in speech, only in writings (where they tend to use more complicated words).

korean hangul is the easy language to learn.

tabik to King Sejong The Great.

This post has been edited by kedingman: Dec 15 2011, 09:23 PM

But to be more specific, all japanese, korean, cantonese, chinese character copied hokkien character. Example, korean,japanese used sensei to address teacher but in mandarin is laoshi.

Maybe old Mandarin used sensei as well? Before it evolved to its current use. Can't comment much, as I don't know much about the history of the current Mandarin.

jipun = kanji

seoul metro aslo got hanja

Old mandarin is 'hokkien'. madarin was created during gengis khan time to unify all groups.Mandarin is actually used to improvise hokkien last time.

The hanja still used in Korea but limited to ancient temples, glamour korean name & etc but usage getting lesser liao.

That MRT signboard wth Hanja (Traditional Chinese) is actually for Chinese and Japanese visitors wth the almost same pronounciation in hangul. BTW, the MRT announcement is also in Korean, English & mandarin

---

Added on December 15, 2011, 9:32 pmAnyway all Korea period dramas for sure still used Hanja/kanji, han zhi haha

This post has been edited by stimix: Dec 15 2011, 09:32 PM

Cantonese is one of the last one to copy chinese character. That is why cantonese has a mixed of mandarin and hokkien origin.

I mean Seoul as in the city name

korean language vocubalory sangat limited one. all direct translation

50-60% of vocab borrowed from Chinese mah haha

mandarin was created by heavily borrowing hokkien and language of the north(hakka one of them).

BTW, this Dongdaemun station signboard wth that awek...The Chinese word vocab 100% copied by Korean...i.e in Mandarin = Tong Da Men and in Korean- Dong Dae Mun. - Direct translation = "East Big gate"


This post has been edited by stimix: Dec 15 2011, 09:39 PM

Great Eastern Gate.

hokkien is what?

Yes exactly. There are 4 great walled city gates in Seoul prior to Japanese occupation in early 1900

The East great gate is the only remained and the South one i.e Namdaemun or "Nan Da Men got burnt down years ago and still under renovation when I was there in Dec last year

even borrow from english. damn funny i tell you.

Tiong Dua Mun

Tong Tua Mui

I dont care who borrow who.

I just dont like languages that makes life hard for learners. And yes. it includes jap, chinese, korean, and taiwanese and hongkongese.

Japanese is fine, cuz at least they got anime and doujin to back them up. But if not, English is god of all language. Why? Simply because english is the most flexible language in the world.

Aiggoooo.. Korean is one of the easiest pronouciation lah and even less than 26 alphabets in English. Japanese very susah bcos mixed wth their 40++ hiragana & vocab still in Traditional chinese/kanji..confusing lorThis post has been edited by stimix: Dec 15 2011, 09:46 PM

I got to know 2 Koreans during my college days. They told me their names in their birth certs have chinese characters.

Dunno how true is that lol.

Yes it's true. All Korean name have official Hanja or traditional Chinese wan

For eg..Lee Dae Hae Korean 변다혜 Hanja 卞多惠

English has a lot of grammers.... Many learn English for years still can't get the grammer 100% correct.

A big part of hokkien language is lost because of deliberate cultural cleansing by gengis khan and his geng.go ask ur grandmother or grandfather. They know the truth. Last time nobody speaks mandarin. Mandarin are aliens to them. That is why until today, you see many etnic groups (tibetan, taiwanese,oversea chinese, all southern tibes) dont want to be part of china because they made promise with hokkien to be part of china, not with mandarin speaking chinese.Cantonese joins china only because of economic benefits or political constraints.

This post has been edited by tankerbell12345: Dec 15 2011, 09:59 PM

Hmm I've always thought Mandarin was based on Beijing language. Now I know it was a bahasa rojak (like Urdu language).
But why do you claim old Mandarin is Hokkien? Was Hokkien the main language of China back then? I want to know its connection with the writing. Japan, for example, borrowed during Tang and Song Dynansty, but there are also words from Wu origin.

In Japanese, it's Toudaimon. Japanese people who don't know about S.Korea will think that it refers to the gate in front of Tokyo University.

And I hate english for exactly that: lack of rigidity. You must remember all verb conjugations.

I think lately PRC is starting to revive the dialects back, with announcements in certain buildings spoken in local dialect.

Is not having a unifying language a problem to India? If not, then maybe PRC can follow India and allow each region have their own official languages.

Do not mess around wth Chinese ancient history-lah.

Mandarin is Northern Chinese language and it was true that when Yuan Dynasty by Kublai Khan (Not Genghis Klan) established his new capital in current Beijing (Beside Forbidden City - Now Beihai Park), they staeted standardising the Northern dialect and even when Yuan Dynasty fall to the Southern Najing based Ming Dynasty that also moved to Beijing during early 1400, They also using Mandarin as Lingua Franca. Thereafter wehn the Ming lost to Qing Dynasty of the Manchu, they also adopted Mandarin instead of their own Manchurian languarge haha..Thereafter..Mandarin started to cover Southern states...liao..

korean know chinese... they got learn one. japanese donno nia.

inb4 "Macam ni lah orang Han, sesama bangsa sendiri pun nak gaduh, macam mana nak maju" (di-olah daripada ayat standard orang <insert race>)
inb4 offtopic

Their bahasa klasik mah haha. I met a Korean a decade ago and he read and sing chinese song in Korean inside a karaoke to my surprise haha..That started my curiosity on Korean language till the exposure via hallyu waves haha

sinsei(japanese)=sinsang(cantonese)

sifu r sinsang?

Cantonese for teacher can also be pronounced lou shi which is very similar to lao shi.

wow its traditional chinese

Ming dynasty sent warriors to tanah melayu and they brought silat with them. Do u know what silat means ??? It is direct pronunciation from hokkien
silat - si lat - deadly energy

If you want to troll also dun be so dumb lah

But how do you call them? For example, if Cikgu Wong or Cikgu Chong, can we call them "Wong/Chong Lou Shi"? Or do we still have to use sinsang?

Teacher also pronounce almost like canto in korean i.e Songseng

but due to American influence, and also Kdrama I am Sam, They created a nick liao..they sometime call teacher as "Sam" haha

korean speak hokkien or not???

hey no need revive liau la. Its going to be morning in Gods time. Look outside to the sky at night. Solar system is a god atom. Many god atoms form tissue and tissues form organs and many organs work together to form a god. When god wakes up they will not be any more dream or 3D dimension.

Mixed of Hollien, cantonese, hakka & mandarin sounding words for sure..

For eg..Student in korean is pronounce Hakseng..very similar to Cantonese Hoksang
Their "10" is similar to Hakka i.e Sip and words like grape, putao exactly same pronouciation like mandarin.
For Hokkien sounding..there are two very common words used i.e:
1) Chinchiak - Really
and 2) Aigooo - Aiyoh


Word for room also similar to chinese i.e "Bang"..

i can go korea kai kai liao...
their ang moh ok one or not??

Their England for sure bad lor..just like Thailand. Anyway, lotsa shop owners can speak abit of rotten mandarin & those in Myeondong sales girls that gave out free cosmestic samples can speak fluent mandarin. and lost of the hotel receptionist too can speak fluent mandarin to my surprise..They probably chinese migrated to Seoul

When they kenot understand england, I speak to them in Chinese for sure haha..They can understand easier. For eg..I ask the 7-11/GS store in Incheon airport about student T-money card (TNG) in england they kenot understand so i used Chinese - Hoksang Piew/ well they can understand me man haha although they corrected my pronouciation to HakSeng pyio This post has been edited by stimix: Dec 15 2011, 11:26 PM

hakseng pio...
student's tiket... hokkien leh...

Korean also same lah

also in korean, "a-re" = bottom/down

"a-re" in foochow = bottom/down

anyong ha se yo in korean= how are you

anyong in hakka = how

food for thought.

it's just a shortened form of 선생님. 샘

Wth 50-60% of vocab derived from Chinese either Hokkien, Hakka, Canto or even now Foochow...there will be more..recently I notice another familiar chinese and only unique for Hainanese i.e "Bongkang" or stupid been mentioned numerous times in one of Kdramas..They pronounce it "Bongchun" and yes same meaning i.e stupid haha ...another rude alternative word for stupid in Korean for sure pabo. I only notice the used of Bongchun or bonkang in one of the kdramas..i forgotten which one liao

canto got ngong chun

Ohhhh...Something new..haha..likedat more like Canto sounding rather than Hainanese bongkang liao

Of course, there are words of native origin that can't be written in Chinese.
For example, annyeong = 安寧, but there's no hanja for haseyo. Most verbs are native. I don't know if they would use hanja for parts of the verb (for example, using a hanja for ha in haseyo), but I know for sure that seyo is always in hangul.

(Maybe that Hakka anyong is also written as 安寧)

But wait, if annyeong was a loanword, then what was their greeting before?

I always suspect Anyong is similar to Hakka word but din know the meaning also same haha

anyong - safe strong

haseyo - ho seh bo



zzz haiz dun be so naive

This post has been edited by tankerbell12345: Dec 16 2011, 12:33 AM

Hase = ho se..abit sceptical but you might be right that yo probably mean "bo" in hokkien haha..

Another Alien to chinese,.like hamida...the da at the back probably similar to hokkien - "lah"

Dry Dark soya sauce fat noodle - hokkien mee according to cantonese

why ?

Soya sauce created or popularized by hokkien

Why not mandarin mee ?

cause mandarin language not yet created leh

haiz


But real hokkien mee is from penang version which coincidentally is so similar to japanese ramen who claimed are related to hokkien

This post has been edited by tankerbell12345: Dec 16 2011, 12:56 AM

teppanyaki - tik pan juak ki

nationalism is still strong in this thread.


Ok la.. sino sphere from old times so strong, thus any sino related people will borrow their languange and writing. Writing from sino there are some words that cant be write. So, the japanese cut ties from China as a tributary state and become barbarians. But they florish and create their own language.

For koreans, they are late bloomers in establishing their country. Only at Joseon dynasty they create their own language and its easier to learn than sino.

ohh yeah also penang hokkien is diffrent then KL/Johor

lol @ this...

here we go again.. now spark korean, japanese chinese .. kita serumpum...

inb4 melayu and indo adalah serumpun


but do you know japanese used hate/kill chinese

which remind me indo want to kill <insert race>

get life dude..there is no such thing ketuanan <race>

in another word.. you' all f***ing racist

that the fact

This post has been edited by atombom123: Dec 16 2011, 01:54 AM

Nowadays, people think hokkien are the backward group without realizing that they are the real one. Many hokkiens already leave civilisation and choose to leave in seclusion beacause ultimate everything is emptiness. In taoistic classic, there was only emptiness,there was not only fullness, there was nothingness. If u have no expectation or emptiness, a lousy food tasted like heaven (fullness) to u and vice versa.

If u read sejarah melayu carefully, earliest ethnic chinese major settlement was in penang and other places like in kl, johor, singapore were not existed yet. Penang hokkien uses alot of k and h pronunciation and are spoken word by word which aslo coincides with japanese k and h usage and word by word pronuciation which they claimed are formulated from the tang dynasty(hokkien) whereas hokkien in kl, johor and singapore are spoken with slang and tongue restriction.Most likely, penang hokkien is the original or earlier version and taiwan, kl,johor and singapore are partially influenced by min nan.Why i am comparing with japanese not others is because they still take initiatives and efforts to remain authentic in cultural heritage despite the threat of time.

I was in Seoul I'm april and the metro was in 4 languages, Korean, English, Chinese and japanese. The announcements were also made in these languages. Btw, the Seoul metro is a joy to use, unlike the Malaysian and Singapore rail system.

Super fast too..So far I no need to wait longer than 2 minute. haha. Even jam pack, the nxt train just ~ 2 min away

kamsa hamida = korean

kam sia ha mi lar = hokkien

come suck up me lar = english

kamsa/kam sia = 感謝
hamnida is formal form of verb 'hada' (to do)
haseyo is honorific+polite form of 'hada'.

does 'ho se bo' come from some kind of verb?
… it does not seem so. Because the 'bo' is like 'tak' in Malay, i.e. "Awak sihat tak?" Haseyo does not have that kind of meaning.
What about 'ha mi lar'?

You mean, to preserve the Hokkien cultural heritage. As the proto-Japanese culture are mostly lost due to assimilation with imported culture. Hokkien culture gets preserved because that's one of the earliest writings to exist in Japan.
Meanwhile, Hokkien lost out to the "Mandarin" (heh) culture. Ironic, isn't it?

Hokkien still OK. Just take example of Manchurian. They ruled China for 3 centuries under Qing Dynasties after the last true Han chinese Ming empire in 1600++.

And during their ruling, they adopted Chinese culture & mandarin and on last count, only less than 100 true manchurian speak manchu. All already 100% converted to mandarin liao...

Similarly in M'sia..the new generation of chinese also losing their mother tongue liao and adopting to mandarin...really cham man

Yalah, what i kenot brain is why did chinese parents send their children to SRJK©, only to force their children to Mandarin (or rather, Bahasa Bunga)? It doesn't serve the purpose of preserving their own culture.

an yong in hakka means 'if' or similar to 'how' ..

This post has been edited by anechoic: Dec 16 2011, 02:02 PM

Mandarin is the lingua franca for chinese ethnics already, so I don't see why they shouldn't learn it

Just like how people don't speak Ye Olde English anymore

this thread remind me of a story

a lady came in the shop the boss and the lady start talking in english bla bla bla.....

say she is married to a malaysian Chinese here she is from korean

boss ask so ur a korean chinese...?

she said no she is chinese and keep emphasizing she is Chinese

boss is like

then she said her family been staying in Korea for 5 generations
their family were allow to keep their chinese citizenship

if they want to go back they can choose China or Taiwan something like that

happen sometime back dont remember all the details

why condemn the usage of mandarin? be grateful that emperor shih huang di united all chinese ethnics into 1 rumpun (han chinese). else become like europe (small countries, warlords etc)

He unite the writing only, right? Where got he speak mandarin?

Actually, the dynasties of Han chinese (like Ming,Tang) were using dialects that shared great similarities with southern China dialects like Hokkien and Cantonese. When their kingdoms fell into the hands of other races like mongols and manchus, the Han people (especially the royal families) cabut to southern China for hiding/living.

This post has been edited by XterNalz: Dec 22 2011, 02:47 PM

One of the korean drama i'm chasing is bragging about the creation of their own letter/character：树大根深

USJ big gate

변다혜 is her original/birth name and pronounce as Byun/byeon Da Hye
Lee Da Hae is spell like this 이다해 la

This post has been edited by asd5139: Dec 22 2011, 04:39 PM

Then the Hanja is probably 李多惠 (btw 이/李 is pronounced 'ee')

lol all hidden korean speakers all appear suddenly. anyway korean is easy to read but not understand imo. mandarin all also hard to do. and im a chinese. japanese susah man.

FYI, there's a lot of korean name that can't be written in hanja...

Don't you see the sign? Korean, Chinese and English ( Is in facts direct translation from Korean in pronunciation for those foreigner that can't read Korean and Chinese ) for the place name at Subway station.

This post has been edited by ysoon: Dec 23 2011, 12:22 PM

Seoul better than Singapore rail? To me, Singapore rail is far far better than Malaysia already. I never been to Seoul so I don't know. Beside Singapore, I went to Hong Kong, Shanghai and Taipei, all the Metro are a joy to use too...

I can't read and understand hanja, so let the one who knew it to answer. I am aware of the pronunciation of 이 as ee/i.. hehe it is just a normal way of romanization (to use LEE) for korean name. (BTW. North Korean use 리 instead of 이 for their name)

^^For me, Seoul public transport by far superior than Singapore. Thing that i love the most is the easiness of transferring from subway to buses without having to pay more (simply continuation of the previous journey)

Ahhh... Interesting topic. I wonder why I post about this topic in other forum no one interested to contribute?

For a long time I wanted to know why the Koreans abandoned Hanja usage in recent years. I think the reason is primarily nationalistic... It doesn't help that the two countries widely using Chinese characters Japan and China were hostile to them in the 20th century, and Hangeul is a nationalistic pride for them (they even got a special day to celebrate it). Of course, it is easy to adopt Hangeul since it is phonetic but then South Korea has been using the mixed Hangeul+Hanja writing right up till the late '80s.

What the Hangeul script makes reading and writing easier... Any language you learn you still need to put in effort to learn the vocabulary. I find Korean grammar harder than Japanese with all those particles...

What Hanja overcomes is to clarify meaning in certain contexts involving homophonic words, you watch the Korean news they will write 军, 中, 日, 前 just to make sure everyone knows what they're talking about.

even their flag is derived from chinese origins...these bunch of koreans and japanese..all copycat..now mooncake festival is korean