Hello,

I tried the search function but couldnt find a post related to this matter..I had made a terrible mistake..Hope anyone here can help me out.

I already bought an apartment with my coworkers.Since its condition very bad (need to do a lot repair work),
I asked him to marked up the price so I can have some money for repairing purpose and he agreed.The transaction done by an agent and since me and vendor know each other,he suggested that we keep this to ourselves,without lawyer know the actual selling price.

1)Is it illegal to mark up the price any properties just to get higher loan?

2)Is it true that lawyer need to prepare 2 SPA?One for actual price and another one for marked up price.I need to pay
for legal fees twice?

Being a noob,I dont know that I can hire my own lawyer.Instead I just share vendor's lawyer that had been appointed by the agent.The actual selling price is RM120,000.So we marked up the price to RM145,000,so my approved loan is RM130,500.This had been done to ensure that I can get RM10,500 cash back..So I had to pay 10% deposit which is RM14,500 and legal fees RM4,000++.All the process already completed last January and vendor which is my coworkers already get his money.So I expect to get RM25,000 from him (RM14,500 deposit and RM10,500 loan balance).Vendor keep dragging to pay and the agent dont want to help and get involve anymore since he already get his pay.I cant confront lawyer since they dont know about this.We dont have any written aggrement about this,just a couple of my friend as witnesses.

3)Is it too late to let lawyer know?

4)If 2 SPA is needed(one for actual and another for marked up price) is it possible to get lawyer draft SPA based on
actual price which is RM120,000.If possible can hire another lawyer?

5)Any other legal ways to get him pay to me?

Really hope anyone can help me.I dont know what to do and being an idiot,I just follow the agent instruction for what to do.Sorry for my bad english or this matter had been discussed.

alan44:


1. No it is not illegal but there is a way to go about it.

2. No. Only one SPA is needed. It will state the higher price but there will be a side letter whereby the vendor agrees to give you a discount of RM25,000.00 and a letter of authorisation to his lawyer to automatically deduct it from the balance purchase price and hand it to you.

3. Not only too late, but there's no point as there's nothing in black and white. Your lawyer would also not want to get involved in this.

4. What's the point of hiring another lawyer? Plus, there can only be one SPA for a transaction. Another SPA has no legal effect whatsoever. Assuming even that even if it is valid, there's no way the vendor is going to sign another SPA.

5. Without anything in black and white, it's as good as your word against his. Having friends as witnesses does not help either it does not lend your case any credence. It is almost impossible to prove your case against him. Probably you can lodge a police report for cheating against the vendor but once again, without anything in writing, it is highly unlikely that the police will act on it. They would most probably say it is a civil matter and advise you to appoint a lawyer. Even if you appoint a lawyer and intend to sue the vendor, it would be difficult to prove your case without anything in writing at all.

Must get the agent to help, really misconduct!

If the agent really wanted to help, he ought to have advised the purchaser to appoint his own lawyer to protect his interests in light of this 'special arrangement'. Don't be surprised if the agent is part of the whole scheme of things. I don't think the agent would want to get involved in this.

Really appreciated the advice.Seems like theres nothing to do.Felt really stupid to not asking around first before made this purchase and just follow the agent.Maybe need to ask vendor and his agent discuss to find better solution.

Thanks a lot ya guys

Bro dariofoo,here's the full history of the situation.

I hope u could get the picture of the situation before i add on the latest issue i'm facing.Hope u could read/understand my poor BM.Quite long,just to show a clear picture.



Above is the email i mentioned that i've sent to the hospital department few weeks ago before they call me for appointment to perform Sonogram diagnostic.I've got a call from the department on the next day and they gave an appointment for the Sonogram Diagnostic,a coincidence maybe?I was admitted a day for the Sonogram Diagnostic and followed by a surgery to remove a 2cmx1.5cm cyst/puss collection at the mentioned part,they removed around 2cmx1cm and 3cm deep flesh to access the cyst/puss collection,was discharged Few days after the surgery,then i still see puss accumulating at the surgery wound's underneath.The condition was still same for a week therefore i decided to consult another general surgeon from a medical centre,after checking the wound he said the cyst/puss collection was not exactly removed because it's situated just below the surgery part and not directly on the surgery part.He made a incision below the surgery part to locate the real cyst/puss collection,he then did dressing to remove the abscess.He advised me to do daily dressing.I asked for a letter on what he did and he provide it.So now,i am really frustrated with the surgeons etc that after on and off to hospital with difficulties as a disabled,they performed the surgery without removing the actual part they should have removed.I have some photos of the wound before (Since Jan 2012) till present,also how much puss accumulated since and after the surgery.I would like to know,legally what are my options and/percentage if i could sue them and the damages could be quantified.


I hope you could advise me because as a Spinal Cord Injured Complete Paraplegic (paralysis),i've gone through alot of hard time,mentally and emotionally inclusive of my parents which are above 50 years old and finally,i've only got disappointment,frustration and a deep useless surgery wound that might takes more than a month to fully healed/recovered.

Hi Dario,

Have gone through both lawyer v1 & v2 thread..didn't see any topic of the same kind of my issue.

I am a fisrt time buyer for condo under construction. And I am using vendor solisitor as it is a "free SPA legal fees" package. on the day the SPA is pass to me for signature, i realise that the maintenance fees table in the standard SPA provided by vendor (developer) is empty. It was filled in my previous purchase of another property.

I was told the maintenance fees is estimated to be around 20cents per sft before i place the booking. now that the section on maintenance fees is empty in the SPA, and i was told by the developer representative that "it is like that" without further clarification, I am not comfortable to sign on the SPA...in my opinion, it should be at least written that the amount of estimated maintenance fees.

I am not sure whether my concern is valid, but to me signing on a contract worth almost 600K with empty table is not easing.

I have the concern because I know the vendor give 1 year free maintenance to phase 1 buyer, and i am not sure whether ppl like myself will have to bear the cost for those who gets the "freebies" before the handover to JMB...

would appreciate your advise on this...is this a stadard & legal practice to leave the maintenance fees portion empty in the SPA?

Hi Dario,

many thanks for your help!!

hi there dario I would like to get some help on this, there is this unit which I'm interested in but its 3rd hand by the time I buy it, the lot was originally a non-bumi lot, then the second buyer that bought that unit is a bumi(which is currently owning this unit), at first I thought it was a non bumi lot since originally it was non-bumi, but it actually had changed into bumi lot and I can't buy it...my question is,

if a bumi buy a non- bumi lot is it it will auto change into a bumi lot?

QUOTE(it.fusion @ Apr 18 2012, 04:55 PM)

And i am blur on the 'periods' that may lock the overall process down...like in this case land office... does they really stretch their processing time ?


What i mean was that lets say title had been released by vendor's bank and SPA lawyer pays MOT stamp duty already... then the land office process ( changing title name to me / bank ) would it take long or very long time ? and does the overall process only considered complete once the title had been changed at land office ? or just by MOT stamping ?

thanks for the valuable info dariofoo... cheers

Hi dariofoo,

Hope you can advise me on my problem below:

I am in the final stages of refinancing my property (an apartment without strata title) from Bank A to Bank P.

Bank P has disbursed part of the loan to Bank A.

In return, Bank A handed the various security documents to Bank P.

All seems to be going well and my loan lawyer then advised Bank P to disburse the remaining part of the loan to me.

But a few days later, my lawyer send a letter to Bank A (cc to me) saying that two security documents have not been handed over.

For nearly 3 weeks, there was no response from Bank A. A few days ago, my lawyer send a stronger reminder to Bank A, saying the loan will not be disbursed unless the documents are handed over and that Bank A will be held responsible if there is a delay.


Please advise what would happen if Bank A fails to produce the security documents:
1. Can Bank P withdraw the loan and demand from me immediate payment for the part of the loan disbursed to Bank A?.
2. What actions can and should I take?

FYI the "missing" documents are the original copies of the power of attorney/loan agreement between the previous owner and her bank. Are these documents essential?

This post has been edited by Twilight Prophet: Apr 22 2012, 09:10 PM

Hi Dario,


Am a purchase and the seller's loan has been fully settled. Earlier on you advised to lodge a private caveat as a prudent move.

When i look through the quotation given by my lawyer, only one private caveat appears under the loan agreement quotation but not under the SnP, is this the standard?

Thanks!

Medical negligence is such that compensation claimed for must be as a direct consequence from the negligent act complained of. Thereafter, the loss arising from the said consequence must be determined. After that, the loss would be quantified based on the nature and severity of it. For example, as a result of the doctor's negligence, the patient's foot from the ankle downwards had to be amputated. As such, the loss of usage of the said foot can be quantified. So can loss of income (assuming that he can no longer perform his current job due to the disability, eg he's a driver). So his salary and allowances would calculated until his date of retirement and reimbursed to him.

In your case, while you have stated the facts of the case, you have not stated much of your loss apart from "i've only got disappointment,frustration and a deep useless surgery wound that might takes more than a month to fully healed/recovered.". Correct me if I'm wrong.

I cannot advise you as to the extent and severity of your loss as I'm not a medical expert. As such, I would advise you to obtain the services of a specialist, in this case, a gynaecologist, who can study and analyse the treatment performed on you and give a professional medical opinion if there was negligence on the part of the doctor in attendance.

The specialist can also tell you if there are any long term effects to your condition. That would help determine more losses to amplify your claim.

From there, you ask for recommendations for a lawyer who specialises in medical negligence (patient/plaintiff). There are firms who specialise on this side of the fence. Don't make a mistake of approaching one who acts for doctors alone (defendant lawyers - mostly on panels of insurance companies).

That specialist must also be willing to attend at Court to be a witness on your side. You must make sure of that. No point of he prepares the report but refuses to attend in Court. That would make the report of little weight and effect in the eyes of the Court. So one of the first questions you need to ask him is whether he is prepared to do so.

The thing about medical negligence in Malaysia is that some specialists/experts do not want to get involved in the trial, as the belief is that, "Today I'm a witness against a fellow practitioner as a defendant, tomorrow I may be a defendant and a fellow practitioner can be a witness against me to my detriment." As such, experts from overseas have to appointed. These costs money, and you would have to fork out the costs of it.

As such, before you embark on this, you need to consider yourself whether it would be fruitful in the end as you would not want to spend a lot on costs and not be able to recover enough after the trial to cover costs as well as legal fees.

Good luck

Yes it is common to leave it empty.

Your agreement should be similar to this sample Schedule H SPA:

 Schedule_H.pdf ( 61.91k ) Number of downloads: 37


As you can see, the exact amount is never stated. It will be stated in the Form which will only be given to owners after the property is completed when they collect the deposit for maintenance.

Not necessarily. Check with the developer if the particular unit has been listed as a bumi lot. Best way to get a definite answer.

About land office, it depends on your luck. Sometimes they're efficient, sometime they're not. But they have improved, I have to say. So to say for sure if they would delay, I don't dare to do so.

Overall process is complete once the MOT has been presented for registration and the charge registered as well. Only then would the bank release the balance loan sum.

1. Bank P won't do that. They would insist on the documents to be handed over to them, irregardless of the delay.
2. Gotta get the lawyer to keep on pushing Bank A. Perhaps even write a complaint letter to Bank Negara if it persists.

The agreements are essential but if it is confirmed that it is lost, perhaps a certified true copy or a duplicate copy, duly stamped, would suffice (depends on whether Bank P would be satisfied with same). The most important document is the Deed of Assignment, actually. That shows the trail of ownership.

Well, if there's no private caveat on the SPA part then there won't be a private caveat by you upon the property, until the bank lodges one (which you are paying for also). That means your lawyer does not intend to lodge a caveat on your behalf. If you want it, then bring it to his attention. Or ask his professional opinion. If the bank's caveat can be lodged soon and fast, then perhaps there is no need for you to lodge one on your behalf. Discuss with your lawyer and make a decision based on his advice, since he is well aware of the facts and current scenario.

Yes the SPA is indeed similar to the sample attached. Also noted this is a common practice.

Anyhow, is there anyway as a purchaser to protect his/her right where the maintenance fees charged by completion are fair & just? Any clause in any other document covering this? Deed of mutual covenance?

Appreciate your advise. thanks.

I heard the banks are all afraid of Bank Negara.

Thank you for your help