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 Lawyer's Corner v2, One-stop centre for any legal queries

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Fasap
post Mar 16 2012, 09:34 AM

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From: A Trivial Thing..


QUOTE(dariofoo @ Mar 16 2012, 01:19 AM)
It has to be the legal fees for loan documentation. That is another set of fees not related to the SPA legal fees. Some developers absorb it, while some doesn't. Perhaps you can ask for a detailed breakdown of it from the agent (I'm assuming that when you say agent, it is the mortgage agent from the bank right?). This will give you a clearer idea as to what it is. I have no idea why the other buyers are saying that they don't have to pay for it though.  hmm.gif
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Thanks for the info. Btw the agent in this case is the property sales agent. I will also call the bank officer for detailsto clarify.

Anyways, what i mean by other buyers not paying it is that their property sales agent did not request any payment even when signing the loan agreement docs. I presume theirs is included into the loan.

When the bank called me up for loan application confirmation they already asked me to opt for included legal fees in the loan. Suddenly after my loan approved, my property sales agent is asking me for 5k legal fees. Is my sales agent trying to syphon money from me or what ya? hmm.gif or am i the one that is too paranoid?
MsPopcorn
post Mar 16 2012, 10:48 AM

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Morning, Dariofoo.

An enquiry...

If I want to obtain the court case report (result)..

May I know who / which dept should I request from?

the public prosecutor in charge of my case? or i get a copy from High Court? since mine was finalized in High Court.

TQ..
TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2012, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(MsPopcorn @ Mar 16 2012, 10:48 AM)
Morning, Dariofoo.

An enquiry...

If I want to obtain the court case report (result)..

May I know who / which dept should I request from?

the public prosecutor in charge of my case? or i get a copy from High Court? since mine was finalized in High Court.

TQ..
*
If civil case then you can do a file search at the Registry.

For criminal cases you can't do so. Are you the accused (OKT) or are you the complainant (pengadu)?

MsPopcorn
post Mar 16 2012, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Mar 16 2012, 10:59 AM)
If civil case then you can do a file search at the Registry.

For criminal cases you can't do so. Are you the accused (OKT) or are you the complainant (pengadu)?
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thanks for prompt reply.

Criminal case. Complainant side.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2012, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(MsPopcorn @ Mar 16 2012, 11:02 AM)
Criminal case. Complainant side.
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Then you can't approach the Court directly. Write formally to the DPP to ask about 'status pendakwaan dan keputusan kes'. If you're ok with the DPP and you think that he's flexible then just give a call and find out. icon_rolleyes.gif
nujikabane
post Mar 16 2012, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE
Hi dariofoo,

Legally speaking, can the company secretary refuses to disclose the company's secretarial documents, upon request by auditor?

Auditor has received formal appointment as auditor.
Kindly advice, & thanks in advance.
QUOTE(dariofoo @ Mar 16 2012, 01:14 AM)
What do you mean by  the company's secretarial documents? Example?
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Thanks for replying.

Company secretarial documents:

e.g registers of directors
registers of members
records of resolutions
registers of secretaries

We have appointed the company sec to handle the sec matters, but upon request by auditors to furnish the documentation,
the company sec has refused to do so.

Is it legal?
& if it not, how do I go about this matter?
MsPopcorn
post Mar 16 2012, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Mar 16 2012, 12:20 PM)
Then you can't approach the Court directly. Write formally to the DPP to ask about 'status pendakwaan dan keputusan kes'. If you're ok with the DPP and you think that he's flexible then just give a call and find out.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
thanks again.

By the way, the case actually has the result. Just as a Complainant side, should we have any official report on hand?

Dariofoo..mind to PM u? as I have few questions which kinda P&C..TQ
yiwee
post Mar 16 2012, 12:29 PM

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Do you have case law for this issue :-

Plaintiff should have suspended or blocked the account (eg credit card/mobile phone) since Defendant already terminated it. But since its Plaintiff's own fault for not doing so, the account now has usage.
But the account was not used by Defendant, but suspect to be internal/inside job of plaintiff's personnel. But no proof.

So what case law do you know of that can support Defendant's case that this debt is actually the fault of Plaintiff?

THANKS!
TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2012, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(nujikabane @ Mar 16 2012, 12:23 PM)
Thanks for replying.

Company secretarial documents:

e.g registers of directors
registers of members
records of resolutions
registers of secretaries

We have appointed the company sec to handle the sec matters, but upon request by auditors to furnish the documentation,
the company sec has refused to do so.

Is it legal?
& if it not, how do I go about this matter?
*
I'm not 100% sure about this but I am of the opinion that those documents can be forwarded to any party, not just the auditors. I don't think that there is anything confidential about those documents. One can do a company search online and those information would pop up.

Who's "we" ? And what is your position? I'm sure at the worst case scenario, the directors can pass a board reso to direct the company secretary to hand over the said documents to the auditors. That ought to solve it.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2012, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(MsPopcorn @ Mar 16 2012, 12:24 PM)
thanks again.

By the way, the case actually has the result. Just as a Complainant side, should we have any official report on hand?
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No. There is no duty upon the DPP to give you an official report. At the best, a hardworking DPP would write a simple letter informing of the decision. Otherwise, it would be done verbally or in most cases, no update at all unless the complainant makes the effort to find out.

QUOTE(MsPopcorn @ Mar 16 2012, 12:24 PM)
Dariofoo..mind to PM u? as I have few questions which kinda P&C..TQ
*
Sorry, I don't give out advice via PM.

icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2012, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(yiwee @ Mar 16 2012, 12:29 PM)
Do you have case law for this issue :-

Plaintiff should have suspended or blocked the account (eg credit card/mobile phone) since Defendant already terminated it. But since its Plaintiff's own fault for not doing so, the account now has usage.
But the account was not used by Defendant, but suspect to be internal/inside job of plaintiff's personnel. But no proof.

So what case law do you know of that can support Defendant's case that this debt is actually the fault of Plaintiff?

THANKS!
*
Seems like a straightforward case of debt recovery by a telco company against a subscriber, right?

It all goes down to burden of proof - See Section 103, Evidence Act 1950. Sections 102 and 106 would also be relevant.

Section 103 of the Evidence Act 1950 provides that the burden of proof as to any particular fact lies on that person who wishes the court to believe in its existence, unless it is provided by any law that the proof of that fact shall lie on any particular person.

Telco wants to prove their claim of usage of telco line - they have to adduce the itemised bill stating the particulars of usage. Once that is done, they have discharged their burden of proof.

Subscriber wants to prove his defence that the line has been terminated. He has to adduce evidence that he has communicated same to the telco company [via a letter which was duly accepted and acknowledged by the telco company], or that the telco company has given him some document evidencing termination of the line. If he fails do so, then his defence would fail.

Subscriber does not need to claim or allege inside/internal job as the evidence of it is almost impossible to obtain or to convince the Court. A bare allegation would not suffice. That is not a good defence at all. So there's no need to raise it at all.

Now, if the subscriber cannot show documentary evidence of such notice of termination, then he is in hot soup as verbal statements are as good as nothing, since the telco company can always deny it. They don't have the burden to prove that it was never communicated to them. The burden is always on the party who alleges or claims a fact. So if the subscriber is claiming the fact that it was verbally communicated to the telco co, then he has to adduce evidence in support of it.

Hope that puts things in perspective for you.


kangwoo
post Mar 17 2012, 12:30 AM

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Question,

signed SPA 21.11.2011...valid for 4 months
if after 21.3.2012, the seller's lawyer still not obtain the consent to transfer the name to me, can i get back the my lawyer fees back?


Added on March 17, 2012, 12:31 amQuestion,

signed SPA 21.11.2011...valid for 4 months
if after 21.3.2012, the seller's lawyer still not obtain the consent to transfer the name to me, can i get back the my lawyer fees back?

This post has been edited by kangwoo: Mar 17 2012, 12:31 AM
basdo
post Mar 17 2012, 05:21 AM

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hi, is there anything that one needs to do while waiting for a late handover of vp? or just act after vp to claim the late delivery charges? sorry, a noob question. appreciate your response. the prop is about two years late.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 17 2012, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(kangwoo @ Mar 17 2012, 12:30 AM)
Question,

signed SPA 21.11.2011...valid for 4 months
if after 21.3.2012, the seller's lawyer still not obtain the consent to transfer the name to me, can i get back the my lawyer fees back?


Added on March 17, 2012, 12:31 amQuestion,

signed SPA 21.11.2011...valid for 4 months
if after 21.3.2012, the seller's lawyer still not obtain the consent to transfer the name to me, can i get back the my lawyer fees back?
*
Go back to what is provided for in the SPA. If SPA says that vendor has to bear your legal fees, then so be it. If not, you have to bear it yourself. What was your arrangement with your lawyer as well? You ought to have discussed with him as to the status of the fees in the event consent cannot be obtained in time and the transaction is aborted. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 17 2012, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(basdo @ Mar 17 2012, 05:21 AM)
hi, is there anything that one needs to do while waiting for a late handover of vp? or just act after vp to claim the late delivery charges? sorry, a noob question. appreciate your response. the prop is about two years late.
*
The SPA would not provide anything that you can do but to wait for the property to be constructed and completed. Your remedy would only kick in when you get the keys. Then you calculate the number of days of delay and proceed to either file a claim at the Housebuyer's Tribunal, if below RM50,000.00, or at the Civil Court if the claim is more than RM50,000.00. icon_rolleyes.gif
thilak833
post Mar 17 2012, 11:26 AM

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Dear Dario,

I am in the midst of selling my apartment, I am about to sign the SPA in few days time. But I kept wondering till when i should be paying the monthly payment and responsible over the rental from the tenant?
Would I be still responsible for the house even after the signing of SPA and forwarding the 10% deposit ? Appreciate your response.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 17 2012, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(thilak833 @ Mar 17 2012, 11:26 AM)
Dear Dario,

I am in the midst of selling my apartment, I am about to sign the SPA in few days time. But I kept wondering till when i should be paying the monthly payment and responsible over the rental from the tenant?
Would I be still responsible for the house even after the signing of SPA and forwarding the 10% deposit ? Appreciate your response.
*
Pay monthly installments until redemption statement is issued by your bank. Collect rental up til handover of keys. Tenancy for that month of handover would be pro-rated.

Yes, you are still responsible for the maintenance fees, outgoings and upkeep of the place until final handover.

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basdo
post Mar 17 2012, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Mar 17 2012, 09:42 AM)
The SPA would not provide anything that you can do but to wait for the property to be constructed and completed. Your remedy would only kick in when you get the keys. Then you calculate the number of days of delay and proceed to either file a claim at the Housebuyer's Tribunal, if below RM50,000.00, or at the Civil Court if the claim is more than RM50,000.00.  icon_rolleyes.gif
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Thanks Dario.
whchong3
post Mar 18 2012, 03:41 PM

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hi... i am a student. can i know what is contract (amendment act)?
yiwee
post Mar 18 2012, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Mar 16 2012, 10:26 PM)
Seems like a straightforward case of debt recovery by a telco company against a subscriber, right?

It all goes down to burden of proof - See Section 103, Evidence Act 1950. Sections 102 and 106 would also be relevant.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Hi! Great advise. But what sort of defense can I raise then?
And
Assuming that I can find some sort of proof, email or SMS confirmation or something, what case law can I use to support defense?

Great work btw!


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