monocoque (made in 1 entire piece with no joints or seams) carbon

i just googled it to be frank with you... google is my sifu

if it said monocque epoxy molded cow skin i would have pasted completely the same here and made a complete fool of myself...

carbon is a complex one to answer... in short, if you are a rough and tumble rider.. stay away from carbon...especially cockpit stuff like stem, handlebar and seatpost.. you don't want them to crack on you...

i would like to say carbon is not crash worthy if you are accident prone.. but i will get stabbed by a lot of carbon supporters.. and using carbon is very particular like using carbon paste on handlebar and stem so it doesn't slip under loads... and a torque wrench to lock bolts and clamps to manufacturer specs or it will crack the damn thing...

if you seen a carbon frame being installed with a BB30 BB.. especially shops who don't have the correct bearing press... and they are hammering away at it to get it in... you should be worried.

in a long winded always complained about wall of text fashion...

carbon is always confused for 2 of it's attributes.. stiffness and strength... carbon is stiff but not always necessarily strong... stiff means (well stiff )... hard to bend while strong is how much bending force it takes to break a carbon tube or deform an alloy tube until the point it doesn't spring back into original form.

there are a lot of factors in carbon bikes, both MTB and road

carbon modulus and weave count
where higher modulus results in stiffer frames but also more fragile

layup methods and fibre directions
if the manufacturer knows composites well, they can layup their carbon layers in a particular fashion depending on the stress loads...properly done will result in a frame that can be stiff yet light ... and in road bikes compliance to dampening out road vibrations...

generally how i describe carbon and alloy is a strand of spaghetti... carbon is uncooked spaghetti while alloy is partly cooked..not sure if right analogy..

uncooked, a spaghetti noodle is quite tough and stiff but also easier to break if you try to put force to it... while a partly cooked one will bend if force is put on it and still offer some resistance to applied forces...

a nice article written on carbon myth - particularly carbon modulus by cervelo engineers with also damon rinnard taking in some questions, not MTB specific but good knowledge...

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/art...f-modulus/2939/

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 11 2012, 11:22 AM

to be fair.. if carbon fibre delaminates it will eventually lead to cracks and subsequently failure with breakage and stuff...

usually i heard it is not advisable to saw carbon posts because some people find the one they bought too long and proceed to shorten it by sawing it, you will expose the sawed part and the untreated ends can have loose fibres...much like frayed shifter and brake cables.. they will work loose and continue to delaminate the top layer and weaking the carbon layup structure

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Added on January 11, 2012, 12:06 pmif everyone who came into this forum and proceed to say that at bike pro... i bet Mr. Tan would just blacklist the fella and don't even give you a discount the next time...

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 11 2012, 12:06 PM

i read a lot from this blog... cycling in general ... and the writer is from an engineering background...

took me some time to find this article i read some time ago..about a broken seatpost...

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/09/ax...eatpost-failure.

a lot to read under the equipment failure section...

in theory... carbon has no fatigue lifespan... so manufacturers can afford to give them a lifetime warranty although "lifetime" is a loosely used term.. it could mean lifetime as long as the model of frame is still produced and not your natural lifespan...

there is also small prints that says normally due to "manufacturer defects".. so if they find that you take a hammer to your frame or did a 720 endo flip and then broke it in 2...

usually only road bikes will risk using less layers on stressed parts of the frame to make a lighter yet stiffer bike because how forces applied is quite predictable on road bike..

specialized did a step further by bringing their venge frame to mclaren applied technologies for using their FEA software to analyze their carbon layup process ply by ply...this in turn lowered their weight of the frame and increased stiffness where it matters...

in short... i think MTB makers can't afford to make flimsy frames due to how and what the frame has to go through... they won't know if a mad cow would take an XC frame to jump off a 5 foot cliff.. so they will just make every part beefier than they can afford so it can take a beating... this also makes the frame heavier but safer to ride.

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 11 2012, 12:34 PM

thats the beauty of carbon... can make odd and smooth shapes that welded tubes can't...

got conned

i am not sure.. which is why i say "in theory" they are capable of giving you a lifetime warranty that is binded to small prints... but as i did mention the term "lifetime warranty" can be interpreted in other ways than you think... doubt you can claim your carbon frame 10 years down the road when it breaks apart.

i remember once that i read on a BMW manual that their transmission fluid is lifetime... takkan no need to ever change ATF oil on the autobox right...

small prints is always causing problems when claiming warranty especially in MTBs... basically, you can't take it for granted as an alloy frame allows you...

so, for me personally "lifetime" or not isn't important.. and at the rate you guys change bikes... lifetime is surely longer than a frame can fall apart or before you trade it for a new one..

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Added on January 11, 2012, 1:28 pmcomponent limitations aside... bike manufacturers can't say and stipulate in the manual you can't take a bike and do 720 back flip stunts or jump off a 2 storey roof... or they will or might as well throw you a 3000-page book.

the most absurd carbon problem i heard some time ago is due to the handlebar that tswung around in full motion and hitting the top tube and cracking it.. on alloy you just get a paint chip and worst case dent but can continue to ride it until oblivion.

i find carbon problems occur with heavily mishandled or misuse of the owner... which is needless to say important to anything in life but more particularly carbon...

so, rider sanity is an important factor...

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 11 2012, 01:37 PM

am sure you guys know of the cyclepassion calendar...think this are from 2012..

pics might not include bikes...



This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 11 2012, 01:55 PM

that could be the fact that not that many of the cycling population is on carbon bikes... then also need to account is that based on people who rides because it is their passion or the people who ride as their main mode of transport like china?

the results can be quite skewed...

carbon bikes don't change the safety of the sport or the correlation to cycling deaths so something a bit off about that statement..

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 11 2012, 03:57 PM

then li tat... next time anything new come out.. you all gang up and pakat to boycott the thing for 6 months... wait for price to come and then all go sapu...

so sama sama all get good deal... if whoever blinks first... all whack the fella and fill his BB with sand... and pour super glue on his headset

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Added on January 11, 2012, 5:56 pmi like this...

http://ax-lightness.de/en/cycling/bike-com...ts/premium-mtb/

just don't know if it can take a beating...

but i'd prefer custom handbuilts...

chris king classic laced to ztr olympics with dt aerolites

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 11 2012, 05:56 PM

they still get business ma.. just a little less profit...it's survival of the fittest ...

do keep in mind that question like yours did get asked many times if not too much... you can't really blame them from directing you to the 1st page or they will be posting super long explanation and you giving a tldr to them and they get offended end of day..

so, sometimes a vague question is a bit hard to answer...unless you already know what you want and you just want to verify your opinions against the sifus here

give and take bit ...

if you are a die hard trek fan.. i leave the answer to the more experienced sifus...

but in my opinion of comparing across different brands... i would say you are always going to be at the losing ends (price wise) with brands like specialized and trek as they are in the concept store way of doing business... this means that they are license to sell trek and trek only and trek makes sure that they don't get competition from other shops that sells multiple brands..

my point is that you don't get to compare a simillar bike in between 2 shops and nego price and don't forget that you are looking at a 29er which is still not as matured here than other countries.

juz my opinion.

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Added on January 13, 2012, 4:17 pmthat is like telling him to buy a book shelf and then later feel it up with books... this is badass levels of poisoning...

ultimate evilness

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 13 2012, 04:17 PM

Giant in branding terms i won't say is bigger than trek. Maybe in the MTB world but not in cycling in general. Trek is bigger due to wider brand consciousness as they do sponsor professional cycling team be it road or mountain.

Giant is as big if not bigger in the sense that it is a big corporation where they not only manufacture and sell bikes. They actually make frames for other bike brands. You might be surprised that a certain well known brand's frame can be made by Giant. Nowadays, they are even venturing into making bike parts like wheels and many other bike stuff.

They do have good and proper high end bikes however.

For me a bike shop is like a friend. There is no point getting a nearby bike shop if you cannot communicate with them and they don't understand or can advise you in proper ways. It is one thing to sweet talk you into getting stuff from them and the other to be your best bike buddy who offers you a tune up for no $ at all. Of course, treat your bike shop with respect also la and belanja them the usual drinks once in a while.

I would drive 50 KMs for my fav bike shop if it is that far away from where i live. I don't mind, maybe i won't visit them that often unless something is needed.



Not being evil here.. but if you find yourself really interested in cycling... your RM4.5k rig is just the beginning of a small hole in your pocket. It will soon spiral out of control as you are surrounded by evil friends who will poison you at any chance you meetup... hell they can poison your through the net... you stand no chance face to face...

Having a willing friend that will loan you a bike for some full length rides is a plus to help decision making on your 1st bike. That is the truth. That way you will know which discipline of MTB you like and less chances of getting the wrong bike.

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Added on January 13, 2012, 5:41 pmThis you?

If not, by any chance this fellas surname is "Tan" and works in Singapore? Sorry la, can't see his face but looks familliar..

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 13 2012, 05:42 PM

WAT!!!

oh.. i read that he lived nearby treknology and i thought money wasn't a problem to him...

yes.. the 3Rs of bike buying, research, re-search your research and research your re-search with other people's research....makes no sense

remember, at first bug the people who you have ruled out and will never buy the bike from.. dun piss the fella off that you will eventually buy the bike from...

you tell me if i'm sucker... jus my bike computer alone...

1) cateye velo 8 , wired
2) sigma BC1009 cause the velo8 flown out of the mounting bracket and got ran over by a car
3) some merida wireless meter cause i wanted altimeter function
4) sigma bc2209 STS, cause i thought the merida display characters too small, turn out the sigma lost some altimeter functions i like but gained heart rate
5) sigma rox 8.0, has all the altimeter function, big enough characters and has multi-lines and on top of that data recording which i have no docking station for.
6) possibly a garmin edge 500??? resisting...

danger level has been upped from poison to blackhole warning...

blackhole warning.. too late

well... it is more addictive than sex... or cocaine.. whichever is more addictive...

you need to bring

1) money (not too much or you get mugged), in case shit happens, if not use to buy water, food or whatever junk you can use to feed your buddies or road side monkeys... your decision
2) some basic tools, just a foldable tool set if you dun have a chainbreaker
3) spare tube, pump and tyre lever if you are using some funny shaped QR
4) and most important... fully charged phone in case real shit happens.

best to put tools, or any hard stuff in saddle bag... not wise to put in jersey pockets... reason? if you crash, flip over and land on your back... you would not want your tools to punch a hole in your spine... no fun.

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Added on January 13, 2012, 11:32 pmtake your word for it...

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Added on January 13, 2012, 11:37 pmmen are very visual animals... there is really love at first sight...REALLY!...right up until the moment someone shows up with another bike that you want so much you can give away your left nut to get 1...

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 13 2012, 11:37 PM

yup... i am a data junkie... the incessant thirst for unnecessary data...

don't know why... no cure ever found...

i doubt it can poke a hole.. but it will do some hurting if you have a big tool...

hmmm...sounds wrongs, this

This post has been edited by butthead: Jan 13 2012, 11:53 PM

guarantee lambat adi la... this is just like flashing a naked picture of some pretty chick.. how to tito li tat?

get wet dreams afterwards...

try... their main site is no accessible.
http://www.johny2k.com/ghspeedbikes/

calm down,dude

don't make rash decisions... still time to look around.. furthermore.. CNY is here and no one is gonna ride with you during CNY...

better dun even look...

look already wanna touch, touch already wanna ride, ride already your butt starts itching... next thing you know... a plastic card is slotted on a machine and you have it in hand without knowing what happened...

eh... i thought you said 4.5k is the max u willing to spend...

jus go look around la.. can't do you anymore damage except wasting petrol.