Corporate cash rich?? are you kidding??? do you hv data to support your claim?

from BNM's data, outstanding Bonds (borrowings) issued by corporates (and these are big corporates, coz SME are too small to tap into the debt market) as of Sept 2011 was about RM300b , before the 1997 crisis, the corporate bond market is negligible. And we hv not talked about corporate borrowings with Banks, which can't be small, as Malaysian banks' balance sheets hv grown much bigger, how banks make money? from interest of the borrowings!!!

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Added on November 24, 2011, 9:15 pmLOL, how do you define "CAsh Rich" ???

Don't look at the Cash balance of a company pls, you must take into consideration their total borrowings, If the cash is more than total borrowings, yes, this is net cash position, but how much more is Cash Rich? enough to fund the company's expenses for one year? two years? define first, before you make any such statement, coz it could be misleading.

eg, a company can borrow RM100m from banks, and when the cash from borrowings reflected in the company's cash balance, its borrowings also increased by RM100m, get it?

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Added on November 24, 2011, 9:22 pmHi Gangho, i agreed with you 100%, especially the last part, but i just wanna shr with you what i know that cause the situation you mentioned in your last para.

In developed countries, Companies Disclosures are, i would say, every extensive, just grab a korean companies/US listed company's annual reports and compare to ours, you will see what i mean. Here, analysts depend very very much on information provided by the companies they cover, therefore you will notice anlayst most probably wud try not to offend those big bosses. I am NOT saying that our analysts are bias but really disclosures/transparency is lacking here and that somehow also restricted their ability to provide 100% independent analysis .

This post has been edited by godutch: Nov 24 2011, 09:28 PM

you still dont get the point.
but i malas to explain further.

if a company whose business is not property investments instead of investing to grow its core business buying up properties, something is just not right.

yes, to key point here is "salary" and to increasing inflation.

we should not be proud of able to borrow up to 40years of loan from the bank just to buy an overvalued property.
it means we need to ensure we have stable income for the next 40 years. anything happens in between, everything is gone.

prices hv been stagnant for the past few months, 2012-2013 will be interesting time.

my advise to genuine buyers is to wait for 1-2 years while saving as much as you can to ensure you hv good buffer. overleveraging will cause tense in the family during bad time, too many familier broken off due to financial reasons.

No need to rush, renting in the meantime could be more worth it.

Imagine this:

you need to borrow RM500K to buy a condo/house, the bank interest, say 4%, S&P legal fees and renovation, furniture, appliances can easily coz you another 50K, 550K at 4% = 22,000 INTEREST to the bank a year, roughly RM1.8K a month, this does not include your assessment, quit rent, property insurance, indah water etc etc expenses and if it's a condo, maintenance fees (if you own the property, these are the expenses you need to pay), end up payment for all these fees is abt RM2000 or worst, more than RM2K a month, and this does not include your repayment of principal. If you can rent at below RM2K, your financial position is better off. so renting temporary is a better option.

This post has been edited by godutch: Nov 25 2011, 03:06 PM

after reading the recent threads, i just cant help but to be sarcastics to those who claimed that:

it's not the developers' fault,
it's willing buyer willing seller,
it's the GENUINE buyers themselves willingly to become water fish,
it's those who can't afford a roof over their heads' only hv themselves to blame coz either they dont know how to earn enuf money or they are stuXXX
etc
etc
etc

It's clear that these group of people were just trying to find excuses to lure more people into believing that property prices will only up up up and MORE IMPORTANTLY it's just excuses used to justify their GREED!!!

It's known fact that genuine buyers (average Malaysians) and developers are not standing on a level playing field, the genuine buyers are definitely in Huge disadvantage when come to buying property.

Developers together with those investors in disguise will always create a "shortage of supply" situation and taking advantage of genuine buyers. The genuine buyers are not stupid as someone claimed, but pls remember a Home is a BASIC NEED!!!! when there is a prolonged artifical shortage of supply, the genuine buyers have not much of a choice but to use all their savings and borrowings which would most probably tie them down for the rest of their lives, to get a "HOME" for the families (at speculated, inflated prices)

I cant help but thinking of a situation where all the paddy farmers/those grow vegie/fruits/butcher/etc etc, who definitely work 10X harder than these investors in disguise group to also creat a "shortage of supply" situation and start to sell rice or whatever basic need items based on "willing buyer willing seller" price and see what happens. And then we can see, who is now the "stuXXX" group.

BUT, unfortunately, while rice is a basic need and a staple food is a price controlled item, property is not.

And yes, i would strongly suggest the govt to take measures to make property a "controlled" item too or at least one that is "semi-controlled".

Social problems often start when there is a group(s) of people who think the others are not so smart and hence start to take advantage, causing unnecessary stress to the others.

i just hope those investors in disguise STOP claming that the genuine buyers who stretched themselves to get a shelter and later could not service their borrowings and lost everything due to recession etc, only hv themselves to blaim!!! YOU, the investors in disguise is also responsible.

i always believe that there is cause and consequences and what goes around comes around, just think twice before you think you are smart therefore can take adv on others.

For genuine buyers, dont stretch yourselves, recession is coming, i believe the property prices will not increase much next year (this is worst case scenario, adjustment i believe is likely), no harm givinh yourselves more time to assess your affordability.

This post has been edited by godutch: Dec 17 2011, 11:24 PM

I m not refering to anyone and "SIN" is a big word that i wont use. It also doesnt matter who believe or not believe in GOD. i voiced my opinion coz i saw replies from some hv becoming personal attack. i was just giving my opinions and hope genuine buyers think twice and dont be influenced by what speculators/developers/real estate agents hv to say, assess the situation, do more research and then make wise decision.

While there may not be 100% fairness in everything, it doesnt mean that we should make everthing unfair.

This post has been edited by godutch: Dec 17 2011, 11:47 PM

deleted coz i love peace

This post has been edited by godutch: Dec 17 2011, 11:54 PM

From what you say, i would suspect that you are not a genuine buyer.

For a genuine buyer, AFFORDABILITY is the most important consideration and it is also reasonable to want to spend one's HARD EARNED money (from blood and sweat NOT From speculative activities of course) on something that are of reasonably quality.

IF your claims above are right, technically speaking, there would not be any transactions done on the housing market in the U.S since the price peaked in 2006 (well, some said peaked in 2005), because buyers will forever waiting like what you claimed:

but let's look at this article :

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/12/21/...stimates-by-14/

home sales dropped but they were transactions not zero. So what you said could be what YOU yourself will do, but not others.

Making fun of others' opinion based solely on what you think is just childish.

Back to AFFORDABILITY, genuine buyers are looking for a HOME, NOT A COMMODITY, so when the prices adjusted to the affordable level, most of them will buy and leave the market. So It really does not matter whether the price of their properties increases/decreases in the next 5 years or so, so long as they buy somthing within their means and they can continue to focus on more important issues like education for children or how to spend time with their families rather than wasting time checking on the market value of their properties.

And for LONG TERM INVESTORS, they are probably also hoping for the property prices to drop so they can pick up properties which give them better returns. Looking at the current price, yields are pathetic.


Like one of the forummer said, It's better to be perceived as a loser (but time will prove, who is the ultimate loser) than lossing out all your hard earned money. so genuine buyers think twice before you make a decision to tie yourself up for the next 20-30 years.

Twisting the meaning of opinions by others will not bring you anyway, it only shows how immature you are when others dont agree wif u

Studios are not meant for family. i think i mentioned clearly HOME and FAMILY. For speculators that think they cant flip SOHO, Studios, etc etc, by all means go BBB, if you are so confident property prices will only UP UP UP. This segment is created by developers to earn as much as they can before the property market turns south and i hv no issues with developers sucking up speculative $$ earned by flippers.

BTW, I already owned a HOME, no need pigeon hole.

my advise to genuine buyers: assess your options and dont fall prey to biased speculative opinions.

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Added on December 28, 2011, 2:57 pmi agreed with you 1000%, those who bought SOHO SOFO units at ridiculously high price to flip will have sleepless nights in 1-2 years time.

This post has been edited by godutch: Dec 28 2011, 03:01 PM

there is something called calculated risk, otherwise it's pure gambling.

if i remember correctly, these developments were launched at quite a high price, so for three days they only managed to achieved sales of RM30m it is really not much given all the goodies thrown in. e.g say average price per unit is RM1m, only managed to sell 10 per day.

developer to pay 12 months installments? meaning on top of the interest paid during construction period, developer will continue to pay installment (principal+interest) to banks for one year?

This post has been edited by godutch: Jan 6 2012, 01:54 PM

let's wait and see if the govt has the gut to implement the 1Care, and with its implementation, i believe it would hv a big impact on the property market, this 1Care project will hit everyone on the street including the economy. Propoerty prices sure drop, so, dont stretched urself (previously i said dont overstretched) coz this could be a reality in view of the "temporaty" license issued to Lynas despite all objections.


http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysi...ng-under-1-care

sometimes i just wonder why some of the people just dont think slightly deeper.

say if it's 10% deduction, for someone who earns RM5000 a mth, contribution to the 1Care would be RM500 a month (burns ok), and just for your information RM500 is monthly installment for a RM100,000 mortgage loan, 4%, 30 years.

so, immediately, affordability drop by abt RM100K for someone who earns RM5K a mth.

For families who are already facing difficulty catching up with inflation, this 1Care is going to push more middle-income earners into the low-income category, widening the weath gap between the Rich and the Poor.

It would be higher for higher earners (if you earn RM10K a month, then contribution will be RM1K a month). but the impact would be greater (felt badly) if they made those who earn < RM2000 to contribute as well. FYI, 10% of m'sian workforce is government servants and they are exempted to contribute, pensioners also are said to be exempted, so technically speaking, the govt is making private employees to fund their medical expenses as well.

And for speculators to FLIP, to FLIP you need two parties, the Speculator and the Buyer, if Buyer's affordability drops you think flippers can flip so easily??? you must be kidding

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Added on February 14, 2012, 1:24 pmJust ask yourself, 1Malaysia got deduct your monthly salary directly or not? This 1Care will

This post has been edited by godutch: Feb 14 2012, 01:31 PM

hi, i think this is indeed a good argument, eventually it's inflation and loss of purchasing power. but i would think that increases in good prices and petrol worked more like boiling a frog with slow fire while if there's 10% deduction from the monthly salary it would be something like pouring hot water on the frog, the frog would jump

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Added on February 14, 2012, 4:15 pmsometimes it's tired to answer people who are just so childish that cant accept different opinions and offer nothing but personal attack.

if you OPEN your mind and your EYE properly, you would notice i put "IF" in front of the 10% just to give an illustration. Like that also wanna jump

This post has been edited by godutch: Feb 14 2012, 04:15 PM

agreed the middle class will be the badly hit group if the lower income earners are exempted. the rich are not that badly affected.

for a poor father who earns 2000 amth, a 200 deduction is huge burden for its family compared to a middle class who earns say 5K a mth, 500 deduction, may means need to cut down on expenses, of course in the end it depends on the indivdual households' spending needs and composition.

in the end, Rakyat lose out

just to add on and share what i've observed.

i was very surprised when you said the 10% is a minor issue, and i guess for you to say so you must be someone who is very rich (i m not being sarcastics but just surprised)! because if you earn RM50K a mth, 5K deduction can still leave a good life i suppose.

my friend who is earning RM10K when heard abt the news told me, that means he will lose RM12K a year on top of the tax that he pays and EPF deduction it would be more than 30% decrease in disposal income, and he said worse comes to worst, he would not travel overseas anymore, 12K is a lot of money.

while my manager who used to bring his family (5 of them) spending their Christmas in HK, after the inflation now opted to celebrate in S'pore instead, with the 1Care, maybe next time, cuti cuti malaysia.

and i would think that for family with RM5K income, maybe can't even cuti cuti malaysia now??

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Added on February 14, 2012, 4:40 pmWhen it breaks the limits (everything has a limit right) this will happen. Look at Greece, those went to the streets and set buildings on fire are the middle class of the country. It is sad and it's a lesson we must all learn

This post has been edited by godutch: Feb 14 2012, 04:40 PM

agreed, for the middle class, they can still opt to eat maggie mee, but how abt those already on maggie mee , we may hv more social problems

back to the property discussion, i was thinking of the same "migration" in property prices, i.e. with the implementation, say really it was 10%, immediately everyone feel that they are poorer by 10% (this is in contrast to the gradual increases in prices of other goods). Those who are considering upgrading (buying new or bigger house) may decide to put it on hold, those who are considering a RM700K property may now wanna to put on hold or lower budget to look at RM600K instead and so on so forth, coz most of human behaviours are based on "expectations" and "perceptions" . With the perception of poorer by 10% and worse if there's concerns over what more (unexpected payouts) to come, the market would fall.

p.s. really sick of those who always waiting for others to spoon feed them instead of making use of their own brains for even simple things.

This post has been edited by godutch: Feb 14 2012, 05:45 PM

Govt wants to gather feedback on implementation of GST

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...80&sec=business

on one hand said gathering feedback but in the body of the news, Donald Lim said Malaysia had no choice but to introduce the tax scheme sooner or later.

more hardship ahead for Malaysians.

"Termination of the RM220 million in enbloc sale (or 96 units) for Icon Residence Mont Kiara"

http://my.entertainment.yahoo.com/news/may...-011333320.html

Will MK condo be affected? heard the enbloc sales was given to the Chinese contractor in exchange for works to be done for Mah Sing, but the chinese contractor did not pay its subcon.

The Arabs are out others in, in Medini land

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...42&sec=business

where to get investors???

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Added on March 27, 2012, 1:31 pmcan't agree more!!
If a nice and newly completed double storey house can be rented for RM1K a month, why bother to buy it at RM700-800K and ended up paying more interest to bank compared to the rental?

buy or not to buy is just a personal choice.



This post has been edited by godutch: Mar 27 2012, 01:31 PM

It is amazing to see how people contradicting what they say just to convince others that property prices never drop.

If we can't compare prices of houses in Shah Alam/Cyber with MK property prices, why the so called investors keep saying Malaysian property prices are cheap cheap compared to other countries?? if comparing SA to MK is comparing orange to apple as you claimed, then comparing Malaysian property with singaporean property will be like....... comparing apple to aeroplance ?? perhaps????

This post has been edited by godutch: Apr 4 2012, 01:49 PM