Fake Silver and Gold Flood Global Markets.......
We have read about one Chinese counterfeiter openly bragging about producing 100,000 fake U.S. Silver Dollars per year, and that’s just one counterfeiter. At this point, we are telling all investors of gold, or silver coins, and or any type of precious metal bar to only buy from a reputable U.S. dealer, that has an established track record, and a money back guarantee. We fear this Chinese counterfeit gold, or silver coins, or bars, could be a multi billion dollar a year business, and we greatly fear many innocent investors could be taken to the cleaners.

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Based on our research some of the Chinese counterfeit coins, are of such high quality, it is not uncommon for even experts to be deceived. We think its smart for every investor to have gold, or silver, our big worry is pretty simple, what if they invest 10%, or 20% of their net worth in what are counterfeit precious metal coins, that are basically worthless? We would call this a disaster for the investor, and out big fear is there are probably tens of thousands of investors in the United States, who have been duped. Even worse, once again for all intents, and purposes the U.S. Federal Government is a no show-once again.”

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“The world needs to come to grips with the largest counterfeiter in the world, the fact that 10% of China’s GDP is a direct result of counterfeiting. If it’s not knock off pharmaceuticals, that can kill people, it’s high tech smart phones, or electronics. Our new worry is pretty obvious related to Chinese counterfeiters bankrupting innocent precious metal, or coin investors, with what could be their life savings. At what point do consumers in the United States, Europe, Japan, or the rest of the world say no thanks to any more Chinese products, given its uncaring attitude about flooding the global markets with counterfeits, or fakes?”

Source: GPCC via prweb



Gold and silver remain one of the few alternative investment methods to preserve wealth during crisis scenarios like inflation or government instability, but taking extra precautions now is absolutely essential to ensuring your wealth is protected when it comes time to sell.

Don’t assume that the dealer you are working with is legitimate, and even if they are, it is possible that they themselves have been duped by a counterfeit.

Those of our readers investing in gold and silver assets, especially if you are committing a large percentage of your net worth, should consider some safeguards.

Work with multiple dealers who have been in business for several years.
Like any investment strategy, diversifying your eggs into multiple baskets will protect you if one of them happens to fall. In this case, buying different products from multiple dealers, all with solid reputations, will prevent you from losing your entire investment in the event one of the dealers was duped by counterfeiters. While not exactly ideal, it’s better to lose just a portion of your investment than all of it.
Trust but verify.
Buy from one dealer and get your investment appraised by another. If you’ve invested $5000.00 into precious metals, paying an additional $100 to have another dealer (most will take a look for free) verify the quality of the assets you purchased is not a bad idea. If you were sold a fake, you can then take immediate action against the offending dealer (as opposed to waiting five years only to find out you’re holding a worthless metal).
Understand dimensions and weight.
One of the best ways to determine if your asset is legitimate is to know what dimensions it should have (circumference, thickness, weight). Every government issued coin, and even privately issued rounds or bars, should have manufacturer dimensions available either online or by simply giving them a call (otherwise go with a different product). Get a digital scale and a caliper and take measurements. Even though fakes can come close to the real thing, the density of gold and silver are unique, so if a particular bar or coin shows an inaccurate weight or dimension, you’re likely looking at a fake. It may cost you a couple hundred dollars to acquire the appropriate tools, but if you’re investing multiple thousands of dollars into these investment then we’d consider the cost of doing business. Take the time to learn about your investments (it won’t take long) and you can save headache and heartache down the road.
Gold and Silver Acid Tests.
Gold and silver have unique properties when mixed with certain chemicals.......
http://www.shtfplan.com/precious-met...eiter_11102011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...d&v=inn8iVASxLY

Not necessarily true.........depends on where the house is.......ask the YANKs...

If your house was in a normal location which has become a prime location
because some politician has an adjacent land, that does not reflect
INFLAtion...

Are you refering to the the 1980 peak?

Are you saying now is equivalent to that peak?

If not, then its a flawed comparion.

Exactly....thats why its a flawed comparison....

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Added on November 29, 2011, 3:07 pmIn 2005, a mee soup cost me .00175 oz of gold. Now its .00127 oz of gold.....so value has been preserved between those years

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Nov 29 2011, 03:07 PM

Yes and No....which you answered in your next breath!

In your past statement, you mentioned gold has no intrinsic value,no returns?

You are right...an oz of gold will FOREVER be an oz of gold; no more, no less. So essentially, its not an investment.
WHICH brings us back to value preservation........

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Added on November 29, 2011, 3:31 pmWhy should we feel sad?
Afterall paper money(fiat) is a manmade inflationary TOOL used by the powers that be to screw the honest public.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Nov 29 2011, 03:32 PM

If you say its has no fundamentals, then why call it an investment?
Would you invest in a one oz granite stone?

Did i say i dont care about gold value?
i said an oz is an oz....isnt that 'value'?

Dont understand yer last bit............

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Added on November 29, 2011, 3:47 pmMaybe those are wrong reasons?

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Added on November 29, 2011, 3:50 pmCan you define investment class when you mention "it has NO FUNDAMENTALS"?
Are Tupils "investment class" assets?

Whattabout 1900 to 2011?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Nov 29 2011, 03:50 PM

Someone who invest in some thiing without fundamentals is called an A$$$.....tulips?

Value is money like USDXXXX? Is that YOUR rule?
An oz of gold is an oz of VALUE.
Otherwise when bad times come and your 'money' is no longer trusted why do humans
ALWAYS fall back to the valuable GOLD? Is that not perpetual VALUE?
Is not fiat just noisy 'value'?
There is NO question of IF gold cannot be converted.
IT does NOT even need conversion. You could easily exchange gold for goods....its universal money
since time began. So no, ther is no question of IF............

Perception fo a moment? OR is it called peception when this relic called GOLD has been accepted
a store of VALUE since time and tested since time? Is that a PERCEPTION?
i suggest that value perception is found in FIAT, not GOLD....thatsis the REASON
when fiat fails, humans fall back to GOLD.

Who says the value of gold has to be priced by your perceived method of fiat?
It does not necessarily need fiat to price gold. Ask the Zimbaweans. Ask the boat people of Vietnam.
Theres always value on gold because it has for eons being the value storer in good or moreso
nowadays in bad times- thereby humans returning to it, and NOT tulips in bad times.
Funny i dont see humans ever using tulips for trading or exchanging that with goods? Do you?

What you see in trading is fiat gold, not physical gold.
You are right about the mispricing/under pricing.
Is gold REALLY corelated to world stock mkt in the way that you described?
Shorter reaction perhaps due to emotions...but longer term?



i am not here to debate gold vs farmland but that gold is value.
What you are doing is speculating whareas history has shown that gold has been used to purchase farmlands.
This is the real precption that you mentioned- GOLD is MONEY/valuable.

Sounds familair but it is value and has always been even when i started recently in 2002.
As far as gold not giving me constant returns, valued in fiat ringgit, gold has returned me 19% p annum since 2002
when i exchange for ringgit. 24% p.a when i exchange in for fiat uSD...... Sounds unfamiliar......
An oz of gold is an oz of gold.....

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Nov 30 2011, 01:52 PM

Corelated or not? DJ beat becos of Warren Buffet?
i suppose everyone is Warren and all are billionire as long as they are invested in Dow Jones?
Warreb Buffet sold his 130mil ozs of silver at $7 per oz in 2006....hes real smart.....

On the matter of farmland i presume gark is refering to badtimes as in TSHTF. Pls read the context.
Dont just shoot off yer hip.

i guess you have not seen Zimbawe or Utah accepting gold as payment. Hell, even Trump Donald accept
gold for payment of his properties!

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Added on November 30, 2011, 2:48 pmYou said when mkt falls, gold falls......dont detract from that. i showed you it depneds on the timeline.

Beta is reaction.....i am showing you a trend which rebutts your saying



Show me evidence where they traded using tulips.....during the tulip mania. Thanks

Link pls?

Did tulips ever return as an asset for exchange? Did gold?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Nov 30 2011, 02:50 PM

You showed me two years, i showed you long term...does it look the same?



Did tulip become an asset fro exchange again like gold?

Maybe Warren is not as smart as one thinks?
Maybe he doesnt understand precious metals?

He bought physical silver and was widely specualted that he sold to the SLV startups..

i am not argiung why is he not in silver now. Why did he sell at $7?
After he sold, went to $12.........must be real smart.

He must be real smart that he cant beat me at investing in the last 10 years.......

Aiyah i am trying to show you that your correlation is only for shorterm volatility..............

In fact in the last 10 years as shown by my graph, S&P500 index has been falling vs gold. Hows that the samw characteristics as you claimed?

i have no qualms about Warren B in stock picks but metals? Think again.......

selling at the rise of the silver bubble? What bubble at $7???

Tell me that the S&P is going the same direction over the last 10 yaers by this chart




You gave me a two year chart. If the S&P was going the direction as gold as YOU have indicated in your post, the
the chart should be pretty FLAT. How come S&P vs gold is DECREASING

If Warren did not value silver why in the world did he buy all of 130mil ozs of the stuff in the first place?
Its not he didnt see value when he unloaded. He just unloaded TOO early.......silver went from $7 to $12 in the next 18 months and to $50 in the next 5 years.

i have been enjoying since 2002........not seen any change in fundamentals to see otherwise.......

Does successful investing always make a billionaire?
Next you have not answered whther since DJ beats gold and is proven by Warren B, then everyone
who invested in the DJ must be a billionaire?
Likewise if i beat Warren, i MUST be a billionaire?

We are refering to SILVER, NOT GOLD.....you are getting your wires XXXXXXX-ed.
Next the context is WB and his WISDOM or lack of....in this case....

The wisdom in this is: DONT Broadbrush everything just because of an ODDity, in this case...Warren.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Dec 1 2011, 08:16 AM

I dont use your methood of correlation....my correlation chart of S&P 500 expressed in price of gold shows CLEARLY that its DECREASING meaning its getting CHEAPER to buy S&P with gold



Meaning your post is nonsense

This i agree since you cant see the fact that that chart refutes your statement.

Thanks

Nice Essay on Gold's present situatiion

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My original post called for a short period of asset deflation across the board. I was sure to explain that gold is an asset and therefore the expectation was that gold might deflate in the short term as well. This may still come to pass yet I am not willing to wait…I will explain.

The history of debt has taught us: Inflation makes debts easier to pay. People take on large debts and inflation allows them to pay back the debts with a devalued currency. This is nothing new… the farmers of 1896 backed William Jennings Bryan’s presidential run because he wanted to inflate the money supply-and therefore reduce the farmer’s debt burden.

When examining government debt, history has taught us that governments abandon all stable currency when an emergency threatens their existence: after that perceived emergency governments inflate away the debt. In every case when the debt service threatens to consume the majority of a country’s GDP, the government causes inflation. Right now in history there is no other course for the extremely indebted western world.

As an indebted individual, you could win the lottery or inherit a fortune. Unfortunately there is no possibility of this happening for the indebted governments of the Western world. There is only painful austerity and inflation.

It is dangerous to think: "This Time is Different" because it never is. The Republicans have been using a talking point of American exceptionalism. To define this term: Exceptionalism is the belief that America is exceptional, in particular the capitalism of the US constitutes an exception to the general economic laws governing national historical development. Sadly this is the same kind of thinking that caused the failure of every empire in history. This theory can explain why the U.S. rejects international treaties and uses its veto power to thwart the wishes of the international community. It is the reason why the U.S. has been allowed to be a poor steward of the world reserve currency.

Many countries and empires have claimed exceptionality, including the modern, Britain, Imperial Japan, Iran, Spain, the USSR, France and Germany. Even historic empires such as ancient Rome, the Ottoman Empire and China, have presented a basis as to why their country is exceptional compared to other countries, drawing upon dozens of flawed justifications. We will soon find out rather painfully that there is no American Exceptionalism...there is just a ridiculously indebted empire which has been hollowed out at the core.

Since it is never “different”: gold is the monetary metal, which is a prudent way to short the western world's currencies. Sadly, the average citizen has no idea that their economic system is going to end in a magnificent crash. People wrongly believe that their system is the exception.

To answer the poster's question: the time to buy gold is when the average citizen is unaware that a crash is coming. During the coming election there will be hope...it will be the same kind of hope that ushered in the Obama administration. That hope which now appears to have been killed by the reality of President Obama’s broken promises.

Consequently there will be dips in the price of gold as average citizen puts faith in the rhetoric of candidates, and trusts in their nation’s ability to change course. I do not wait for these dips but a prudent investor might get lucky in doing so.

It appears that price of gold is rightly expecting massive inflation. Unless something comes along to challenge the expectation of inflation in Europe and in the U.S.-gold will continue to rise. Since the U.S. Federal Reserve announced that interest rates would stay low into 2013-there is no restraint on inflation. Low interest rates are exactly the wrong medicine for America, yet they are exactly the right medicine for a government which wants to retain power. The correct course of action for America is higher interest rates and a painful recession-but just try to sell that to Americans and you begin to see why Ron Paul is labeled unelectable.

I would like to point out that you will not get rich beyond your wildest dreams by purchasing gold. You will however protect yourself from the inflation which is assured. To believe in a sudden recovery or a deflationary course is to believe in the impossible.

I cannot suggest to you that there will not be a pullback in gold. I will only tell you that I do not try to time gold purchases based on dips because I do not know when the end of this fiat system will come. I buy gold now because I want to be short the U.S. dollar. I buy gold now because the direction of the U.S. dollar in the long run is ultimately into the trash bin of failed currency. I buy gold now because the average citizen still believes in exceptionalism.

Yes. It was supposedly for the startup of the SLV-Silver EtF....still Warren SOLD at low price at $7

Just like 2002.......... No one wants to know.....

Typical........ these threads are just like Kopitiam......not really educational et al...... *yawn

Liquidation of Customer Stored Gold and Silver Bullion From MF Global
Commodities / Gold and Silver 2011
Dec 17, 2011 - 12:27 PM

By: Jesse


The bottom line is that apparently some warehouses and bullion dealers are not a safe place to store your gold and silver, even if you hold a specific warehouse receipt. In an oligarchy, private ownership is merely a concept, subject to interpretation and confiscation.

Although the details and the individual perpetrators are yet to be disclosed, what is now painfully clear is that the CFTC and CME regulated futures system is defaulting on its obligations. This did not even happen in the big failures like Lehman and Bear Sterns in which the customer accounts were kept whole and transferred before the liquidation proces
Obviously holding unallocated gold and silver in a fractional reserve scheme is subject to much more counterparty risk than many might have previously admitted. If a major bullion bank were to declare bankruptcy or a major exchange a default, how would it affect you? Do you think your property claims would be protected based on what you have seen this year?

You always have counter-party risk if you hold gold and silver through another party, even if they are a Primary Dealer of the Federal Reserve. As Ben said, the Fed offers no seal of approval.

If a Bankruptcy Trustee can pool your bullion into the rest of the paper assets and then liquidate it at prices that are being front run by the Street, you will have to accept whatever paper settlement that they give you.

The customer money and bullion assets are not lost, or rehypothecated or anything else. This is a pseudo-legal fig leaf, a convenient rationalization.

The customer assets were stolen, and given to at least one major financial institution by MF Global to satisfy an 11th hour margin call in the week of their bankruptcy, even as MF Global was paying bonuses to its London employees.
And now that powerful financial institution does not want to give the customer money back. And they are so powerful that the Trustee and the Court is reluctant to try and claw it back. And so in the great Wall Street tradition they are trying to force the customers and the public to take the loss. The regulators and the exchange are aghast, and are trying to imagine how to resolve and spin this to preserve investor confidence and prevent a run on the system.

'Let them eat warehouse receipts.'

For many this would have been unthinkable only a few months ago. They had been cautioned and warned repeatedly, but chose to trust the financial system. And now they are suffering loss and anxiety, frozen assets, and the misappropriation of their wealth.

How more plainly can it be said? The US financial system as it now stands cannot be trusted to observe even the most basic property rights as it continues to unravel from a long standing culture of fraud.

Get your money as far away from Wall Street as is possible. And if you want to own gold and silver, take delivery and store it in a secure private facility outside the fractional reserve system.


Barrons
The Silver Rush at MF Global
By ERIN E. ARVEDLUND
December 17, 2011

It's one thing for $1.2 billion to vanish into thin air through a series of complex trades, the well-publicized phenomenon at bankrupt MF Global. It's something else for a bar of silver stashed in a vault to instantly shrink in size by more than 25%.

That, in essence, is what's happening to investors whose bars of silver and gold were held through accounts with MF Global.

The trustee overseeing the liquidation of the failed brokerage has proposed dumping all remaining customer assets—gold, silver, cash, options, futures and commodities—into a single pool that would pay customers only 72% of the value of their holdings. In other words, while traders already may have paid the full price for delivery of specific bars of gold or silver—and hold "warehouse receipts" to prove it—they'll have to forfeit 28% of the value.

That has investors fuming. "Warehouse receipts, like gold bars, are our property, 100%," contends John Roe, a partner in BTR Trading, a Chicago futures-trading firm. He personally lost several hundred thousand dollars in investments via MF Global; his clients lost even more. "We are a unique class, and instead, the trustee is doing a radical redistribution of property," he says.

Roe and others point out that, unlike other MF Global customers, who held paper assets, those with warehouse receipts have claims on assets that still exist and can be readily identified.

The tussle has been obscured by former CEO Jon Corzine's appearances on Capitol Hill. But it's a burning issue for the Commodity Customer Coalition, a group that says it represents some 8,000 investors—many of them hedge funds—with exposure to MF Global. "I've issued a declaration of war," says James Koutoulas, lead attorney for the group, and CEO of Typhon Capital Management.

At stake is an unspecified, but apparently large, volume of gold and silver bars slated for delivery to traders through accounts at MF Global, which filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 31. Adding insult to the injury: Of the 28% haircut, attorney and liquidation trustee James Giddens has frozen all asset classes, meaning that traders have sat helplessly as silver prices have dropped 31% since late August, and gold has fallen 16%. To boot, the traders are still being assessed fees for storage of the commodities...

By Jesse

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com