paper gold is better and more efficient.
1. if you intend to trade, meaning to said, you will enter and exit the market (buy low, sell high) at various time (3-6 mths or less in between buy and sell).
2. you intend to have fiat money at the end of the day.
all these are true so long that COMEX gold did not default.

Physical gold is better if you intend to keep for long2 time (> 2 yrs) and other than thief or lost due to misplacement there is no other risk.


This post has been edited by GoldChan: Nov 17 2011, 08:42 AM

i think we belong to different school of thought.!
Option 1: For the reason of fear, trust, convenience, leave the money in financial system : fiat, stock, equity:- it will get indirectly stolen by ruling class over time.

Option 2:- get the money out from ruling class control:- get stored value $ in precious metal and store it aside. I take my chance.

given to choice, I take the bolded risk. Opt 2. for the rest of you, it up to U 2 decide.

purity : buy small size 1 oz or less. Pay the premium, don;t be greed.

stock people will alway buy paper. They will treat paper as good as gold. at the end of the day they will cash out.
no point talking them out for physical.

everything you said is true
until
1. COMEX default.
2. Paper gold fraud.
3. Hyper inflation comes to picture like prior to WW2 in Germany.

If these 3 item did not come true or one cash out b4 it come true then paper gold is save lah.

Those who invest in physical gold they treat it as insurance as they believe that one of these will come true and they don;t want to get
stuck with paper gold which not convertable to physical. by the time they cash up, price of physical will bom bom up like no body business.

invest in food. + land..

i read some where. It's a private deal lah.
4 more info PM me.

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Added on December 2, 2011, 11:19 pmI think UOB MY can lower their gold trading to RM1 and RM.50 but i don;t know how other bank will react and how bank negara will policy it.

i see lot of people still on paper gold but one day those on paper will kena kau kau lah.
my policy is always physical.

This post has been edited by GoldChan: Dec 2 2011, 11:19 PM

not as simple as that, physical gold is still the best.
banker will know how to milk their customer. get physical and stop the milking process.

1. from legal point of view, you need to look at the contract for gold saving a/c. in most if not all occasion, it is unavailable for common people lah.
2. it is clearly stated in the term and condition that there may be some losses if U invest in gold.
3. default scenario.

1. U buy for Bank XXX in malaysia.
Bank XXX hedge the paper gold with Trader YYY at COMEX.
Trader YYY at COMEX screw up, cannot deliver the paper gold to Bank XXX.
How does Bank XXX going to pay U? put the blame on Trader YYY.
so nothing to do with Bank XXX reputation etc, it all has to do with the contract signed between Bank XXX and trader YYY.


2. U buy for Bank XXX in malaysia.
Bank XXX hedge the paper gold with BAnk YYY at COMEX.
bank YYY at COMEX screw up, cannot deliver the paper gold to Bank XXX.
Bank YYY will continue to print $$$ to pay Bank XXX lah.

then, U may see this announcement in the future.
a) to prevent manipulation, market loss to exchange etcc... spread of paper has to be higher.


then come a day, due to current scenario, we have to stop trading on Monday. Price is USD3000/oz
settlement price will be based on Monday.
then they will background print more $$$ then pay U USD3000/oz. irregardless on when U redeem it.
then when U get the USD3000. price of physical on Tuesday is USD4000/oz then on Friday it USD6000/oz
but U still have USD3000/- 1/2 of your $ is robbed.

to prevent all this scenario, get the real physical then nobody can steal it from U lah.



This post has been edited by GoldChan: Dec 12 2011, 10:29 PM

1. I doubt bank will pay. I.e. DBS did not pay those who invested in Lehman brothers.

2. That day will come, U just wait lah.

2.

1. When default, it is not about reputation anymore. It about legal issue and court order.
Bank are earning few % interest from depositor, thus every single cents count.
I don;t think they will just suck up the losses, they will let the court to decide.
Do U think the press will be on your side?

I seen some many court cases between banks in financial dispute. recently today 14 Dec 2011 the star, bank auction off a house w/o telling the owner.
In property auction, bank r the 1st to wash their hand. So unfair to the buyer.
So, U think bank will keep the reputation or it will end up in court to decide.

I.e. Highland tower tragedy, how long does it takes the bank to waive the payment for the victim in the highland tower.
Does all the bank did the same thing?

can you name me us some cases where the court case is in favours of consumer? Then how much legal $$ is spent to get those verdict.

Get physical then U don;t have to worry about this.

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Added on December 14, 2011, 11:04 amas long as it's fiat, it 's still in the banker or Central bank control. You still play by their rules. They can impose lot of things and rules
a) Increase spread.
b) Impose tax on earning.
in the end U get less gold then you started with.

remember 1 oz of gold in 1913 is USD20. It has lost over 95% of its value today due to fiat.
paper Gold is traded 10 - 50x more than physical. All these are known numbers,
yet if someone still 1 2 get into fiat in form or paper gold, be my guest, for me it has been long physical.

This post has been edited by GoldChan: Dec 14 2011, 11:04 AM

until someone get us the contract how paper gold is operated in local bank, we can;t really argue much about it.
all are just merely assumption.
Even if U put cash in bank PIDM only insure up to 250K per account let alone paper gold.
It 's clearly stated gold investment account can have losses in the pass book.
When that day comes, one can spend all the time arguing with bank, I just don;t have the energy and time 2 do so.

with regards to loss, even if U have a house the house can be flooded, tsunami, burn down riot etc. nothing is save from losses.
For gold currently keeping in safe deposit box facilities is quite safe lah.

when one do physical, one must cater for some losses lah. inventory checking is important,. ask a secuirty consultant lah on how to secure your stuff.

up to RM100K insurance per box for some operator of safe deposit.
some are 200K to 400K. pretty much it covers for majority people.

This kind of default, when it come it comes with surprise, immediately come and bang2 sapu everybody one.
people want definite guarantee insurance that why they buy physical gold.
it's a protection for hyper inflation.
its for long long time maybe 5-10 years horizon.

people who do not believe in definite insurance will treat gold as an investment thus they prefer paper lor.
which indirectly mean they don;t believe in hyperinflation and fiat can solve most of the problem.

paper gold will collapse one day lah.
for something that is virtual traded 50x more than physical. It will be gone soon.

if you have few kgs it normal to hedge it over several safe facilities or stored in CERTIS SG very safe.
there is some arrangement for millionaires in CERTIS to store off-source gold.

just like you take chances with paper gold some take chances on physical.

bank default is a big event affecting a lot of people. if it comes almost everybddy will kena.
theft, flood, fire is small event affecting few people thus it occur more often.
thus, statistic is not applicable for this scenario.

It 's just like saying/comparing how many people kill by accident vs Tsunami 2004 in Indonesia.

5-10 years is a long 2 time agree. Average insurance policy lasted 20-30 years, some protect up to 70 yrs old
Thus if you compare 5-10 years for insurance + presevation of wealth purchasing power then it's not long. it just short

in any financial planning, you should have some cash + insurance in hand any time. in case anything happen just used your cash.
I believe 20 years ago for average citizen, 1991 one may have 10K cash in hand for emergency, now maybe 20K in hand for emergency and
insurance policy protection up to 100K to 1 million.

the insurance can be in the form of gold, in 1991 you may get at USD400.oz x RM2.5 = RM1000 per oz.
if you keep 10 oz in 1991. then now it is RM50,000.
so it;s a form of insurance base on your saving.

thus, it an saving insurance. when you need $ just sell it.
whether paper gold can achieve that integrity and commitment for the next 10 - 30 years remain a big Question with lot of bank default in USA, europe, etc in recent years.

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Added on December 16, 2011, 8:41 amindeed fiat do solved our problem for 98 years but creating many2 more indirect problems which one wish not to encounter.
such as unaffordable housing in SG, Taiwan, HK and also malaysia.

in the process of solving your problem, the value of currency is diluted to 95% of its original value.
we are no difference than ROme and China back then when paper $ was issued.

when USA use gold as currency prior to 1913, there was no inflation for 200 years 1700s - 1913 with some exception during the civil war.

paper money also created War.
with unlimited ability to print $$$, government can go to War , e.g WW2.
the indirect;y steal the saving from public by massive printing press, to fund their political agenda war, social program U name it.

if all $ is limited by gold, the war will lasted less than 3 month after that no more $ to fund everything else.
WORLd peace.


This post has been edited by GoldChan: Dec 16 2011, 08:41 AM

mfglobal is the recent one.
read the horror story ok.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/trust...llion-mf-global

trustee seize (curi) all the stored customer gold. What about paper gold?
long time kena curi already lah.
but small fry no need to worry lah.

in summary,
physical gold lost like died of accident . if you can avoid it, then U won;t die

paper gold lost like dying due to cancer. the doctor will tell U there is hope 4 U lah. your life is not lost etc.. and still charge you medication+consultation fee (storage fee). Guarantee died.






This post has been edited by GoldChan: Dec 19 2011, 05:07 AM

cherroy., where is your padawan / supporter of paper gold?

thanks cruzzie for helping me to convince this otai cherroy.

whatever is it. Thank U lah for sharing my effort and idea.
For those we have convinced the next phase will be "Prisoner Dilemma"

price will go up after new year. I think cause 30 th Dec 2011 is comex last day for gold and silver delivery.
need to depress the price to prevent delivery. after that price may rise.

i could be wrong.

can u show us the real coin photo? thanks.

show me the real coin then only i can comment lah.

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Added on January 16, 2012, 8:07 pmwell, do PM me. can spare you some 1/10 oz gold lunar for sales.
price will depends on when U lockin.


This post has been edited by GoldChan: Jan 16 2012, 08:07 PM

gold is very low margin business.
If one play with very little capital, then one can easily loses out to forex.
A few point changes in forex will wipe out all the profit you make.
Sometimes, for dealer who sell 1 kilo bar, the profit only RM500 - RM1K with the risk of RM170K
tough business.

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Added on February 1, 2012, 11:16 ambuy better food and books. Got spare $ go travel locally or regionally. forget about the saving as it won;t make much differences.now u got time, spend it on travelling lah.



This post has been edited by GoldChan: Feb 1 2012, 11:16 AM