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 why malaysia local football industry so bad, compared to Japan.. why? what's wrong?

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SUShack3line
post Oct 19 2011, 10:29 AM, updated 15y ago

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the most irony thing is japan back to 20+ years ago japan football association (JFA) send their professional management team to learn from Malaysia to overhaul their football industry system.. japan also send their professional management team to germany.. malaysia also send but now like diam only..

but why nowaday malaysia left so far behind japan as asia football superpower.. what's wrong actually??

the statistic from AFC really disappoint malaysia local football fan.. malaysia football industry left so far behind japan sad.gif
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the football technique of japanese youth footballers also so much better than us in my personal opinion


do you think FAM and Malaysia local league need a very big major overhaul in order malaysia to win world cup just like what japan did 20 years before.

This post has been edited by hack3line: Oct 19 2011, 01:13 PM
Helweiz
post Oct 19 2011, 10:49 AM

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Its because Malaysia football does not been commercialize..
no heavy investment from companies that know well about the game and promoting it.
beck_ken
post Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM

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Football is not about just a sport. It's all about how people promote it via social media or media network.

During the 90s when Dunhill was the major sponsor for local league, they promoted it very well thru social media and we can see it from TV commercial, but now TM did any advertisement? Yes but not as heavy as Dunhill did last time.

Our youth team is not average but they are better than the senior squad but when they all promoted to senior squad, they become... U know it

Third is sport + politic = always a no no

How can a state MB become the team manager when he himself has a lot of state related affairs to take care off
Lynixx
post Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM

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atleast we are proud to be on top of singapore
ljf123
post Oct 19 2011, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(Lynixx @ Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM)
atleast we are proud to be on top of singapore
*
top? are you sure doh.gif
SUShack3line
post Oct 19 2011, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(beck_ken @ Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM)
Football is not about just a sport. It's all about how people promote it via social media or media network.

During the 90s when Dunhill was the major sponsor for local league, they promoted it very well thru social media and we can see it from TV commercial, but now TM did any advertisement? Yes but not as heavy as Dunhill did last time.

Our youth team is not average but they are better than the senior squad but when they all promoted to senior squad, they become... U know it

Third is sport + politic = always a no no

How can a state MB become the team manager when he himself has a lot of state related affairs to take care off
*
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i think only happen in malaysia?? whistling.gif
terriez
post Oct 19 2011, 11:45 AM

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Look at the business scale part and it explains everything.
skylinelover
post Oct 19 2011, 11:52 AM

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gave up on local football after both senior n olympic squad failed against bigger teams big time doh.gif shakehead.gif
tenno
post Oct 19 2011, 12:42 PM

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I won't even call our local football an industry just yet... league ? Yes... Industry ? Where ?
kucingmainan
post Oct 19 2011, 12:46 PM

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Three reasons:

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syazwan
post Oct 19 2011, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(beck_ken @ Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM)

How can a state MB become the team manager when he himself has a lot of state related affairs to take care off
*
u sure ke? biasanya state MB jadi presiden & tak kacau urusan dalaman pasukan

ko x boleh nafikan dalam negara yang tidak memandang sukan sbg satu industri, pengaruh orang2 besar ni penting financially
contoh macam heklain bg keh keh keh
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lain la kalau Malaysia ni macam Aussie ke, Holland ke, England ke, Japan ke
bagok
post Oct 19 2011, 01:10 PM

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Sultan bola..dan politaik...
SUShack3line
post Oct 19 2011, 01:19 PM

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from the statistics..

malaysia football industry only good in match organisation, organisation and stadium.

business supports, government supports, technicals, marketing & promotion, medias, stadium attendance fail so much.. sad.gif

how malaysia to enter world cup like this?? so many thing need to improve to realize malaysia to win world cup in the future.. sweat.gif
[kuaLe]_AGX
post Oct 19 2011, 01:27 PM

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how malaysia to enter world cup..
how malaysia to enter world cup..
how malaysia to enter world cup..

yeah "dasar pandang ke hadapan" is good

but u hack3line....u pandang terlebih depan laugh.gif

until malaysia qualified in Asia Cup @ atleast doing something memorable in that tournament...well entering World Cup is a long distance dream for us...
billy08
post Oct 19 2011, 01:33 PM

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Biasa lah ..
When politicians come in miggle .. these are the problems!
Look back into the good old days in the 70's, my favourite, Spiderman!! Do you know who am I referring to? I am sure there is ppl who knows .. why is that?
tenno
post Oct 19 2011, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(beck_ken @ Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM)
How can a state MB become the team manager when he himself has a lot of state related affairs to take care off
Tell me one team with an MB or CM as their team manager...


Added on October 19, 2011, 2:23 pm
QUOTE(Lynixx @ Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM)
atleast we are proud to be on top of singapore
*
If this is all we aim for in football then we deserve to be where we are now...


Added on October 19, 2011, 2:26 pm
QUOTE(Helweiz @ Oct 19 2011, 10:49 AM)
Its because Malaysia football does not been commercialize..
no heavy investment from companies that know well about the game and promoting it.
*
Is there ANY sport at all in Malaysia that is a commercial success ? We in Malaysia doesn't have a strong enuff sports culture yet. No heavy investment from companies ? Why shud they invest ? What can they get in Malaysia ? the ROI I mean....

This post has been edited by tenno: Oct 19 2011, 02:26 PM
kucingmainan
post Oct 19 2011, 02:26 PM

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i'm giving up hope in watching malaysia qualify for fifa world cup long time ago.
matt85
post Oct 19 2011, 03:16 PM

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Politics and sports correlate in Malaysia.

Even if we have 1000 12 year old Messi talents also cannot develop and eventually they become Ramli burger seller
fesick
post Oct 19 2011, 03:26 PM

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nak buat siaran langsung kat tv pun susah.. how to improve like that..

skystrike
post Oct 19 2011, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(kucingmainan @ Oct 19 2011, 12:46 PM)
Three reasons:

1.sultan bola
2.sultan bola
3.sultan bola
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1. +9000
2. +9000
3. +9000
calvin_yit
post Oct 19 2011, 03:34 PM

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Guess everyone here agrees mixing politics and sports together are a recipe for disaster. Another thing about malaysia is the emphasis of schools either primary or secondary in putting their resources to only further the academic achievements of students. Looking around where i live, a few schools are already building extra classroom-blocks over the football field to maximize student intake volume.

I think there is a clear preference on the education department and even on most of the parents part to only wanting the students to succeed in their studies but not on sports. Its a society enigma really. Until we change that, it is hard to see an improvement.
teongpeng
post Oct 19 2011, 04:08 PM

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i blame FAM's poor management
zickey
post Oct 19 2011, 05:07 PM

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change the president and management of FAM we might see a change.. this issue has been brought up all the time
aressandro10
post Oct 19 2011, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE(beck_ken @ Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM)
Football is not about just a sport. It's all about how people promote it via social media or media network.

During the 90s when Dunhill was the major sponsor for local league, they promoted it very well thru social media and we can see it from TV commercial, but now TM did any advertisement? Yes but not as heavy as Dunhill did last time.

Our youth team is not average but they are better than the senior squad but when they all promoted to senior squad, they become... U know it

Third is sport + politic = always a no no

How can a state MB become the team manager when he himself has a lot of state related affairs to take care off
*
which team have state MB as team manager rclxub.gif honorary president tu standardlah...
mezzi-quan
post Oct 19 2011, 07:33 PM

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i realy respect the japanese...........in less than 10 years they cn make a totally horrible amateur football league to be one of the most succesful professional league in the world.......realy impressive.....
aressandro10
post Oct 19 2011, 07:37 PM

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changing FAM also no use unless we change society..... and belive me as imposible as the former sounds, the latter is much tougher...

Japan is better than us because thats what their society is. Better than us in every possible aspect. Better FA. Better coomercial. better players. better fans. the society is about collective effort by everybody for everybody. Kinda the right kind of socialism and communism.

not the selfish type we are...
SUSAzurues
post Oct 19 2011, 07:51 PM

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why u no delete your account yet hah?
aressandro10
post Oct 19 2011, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(Azurues @ Oct 19 2011, 07:51 PM)
why u no delete your account yet hah?
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err...what ..?
SUSlittle_mozart
post Oct 19 2011, 08:34 PM

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only one race goes to stadium..

all the bashing from all 3 major races...

u know what i mean?
Angel of Deth
post Oct 19 2011, 08:47 PM

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Malaysian football thread doesn't even that happening, but when the thread is dedicated for complaining or pointing the negativity suddenly there will be hike of interest. I think we all responsible to certain degree for this problem, not FAM and those politician alone. Less interest for local product, how they can improve the presentation or the quality with that kind of reception? Or it should be the other way around? You decide it.
TimPTGirl
post Oct 20 2011, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(Lynixx @ Oct 19 2011, 11:01 AM)
atleast we are proud to be on top of singapore
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haha we should say at least our football team is not imported... wink.gif
account_manager
post Oct 21 2011, 02:40 PM

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i vote for Idris Jala to be the next FAM president..
aressandro10
post Oct 21 2011, 08:06 PM

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QUOTE(account_manager @ Oct 21 2011, 02:40 PM)
i vote for Idris Jala to be the next FAM president..
*
football industry is a volunteer thing. we cant be a leader or push someone to be one if we or they dont want to volunteer for it...

that being said, i'd also would like for idris jala to introduce efficiency into FAM...

but the person who is truly gunning for that post right now is TSAM and i wont mind that too...
NasiLemakMan
post Oct 22 2011, 01:10 AM

oh hai! wan naslemak?
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lack of import players like Singapore

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by NasiLemakMan: Oct 22 2011, 01:11 AM
FLampard
post Oct 23 2011, 02:59 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Oct 19 2011, 07:58 PM)
err...what ..?
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he is referring to hack3line, who requested to delete his account biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

hack3line oh hack3line

what u said, isnt just a phenomenon in football. its in everything.
account_manager
post Oct 23 2011, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Oct 21 2011, 08:06 PM)
football industry is a volunteer thing. we cant be a leader or push someone to be one if we or they dont want to volunteer for it...

that being said, i'd also would like for idris jala to introduce efficiency into FAM...

but the person who is truly gunning for that post right now is TSAM and i wont mind that too...
*
if only our fans are TRULY passionate like our indonesian counterpart.. how they rebel against the ex-president.. it was totally scary but the guy has step down now.. we should provoke FAM or those high rank personnel and truly express ourselves and our opinion for the sake of our football.. the time is now or never..

rclxub.gif
Rotuham
post Oct 23 2011, 07:28 PM

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When k.rajagobal retires from national team,i would like to see him become FAM president.Maybe he might bring changes like how he did to the national team.I also think he is the only person who can command the respect of everyone regardless of race.If sultan still want be FAM president and politician still want to monopoly the top posts,i believe when i come back to lowyat football lounge in 10years time,hack3line your tered will still be open and active.True story.
aressandro10
post Oct 24 2011, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ Oct 23 2011, 07:28 PM)
When k.rajagobal retires from national team,i would like to see him become FAM president.Maybe he might bring changes like how he did to the national team.I also think he is the only person who can command the respect of everyone regardless of race.If sultan still want be FAM president and politician still want to monopoly the top posts,i believe when i come back to lowyat football lounge in 10years time,hack3line your tered will still be open and active.True story.
*
Unless he is a super efficent marketing bussiness person who can turn dust to gold (ala Tony fernandes), a president of sports associations in Malaysia need to be someone that has "money is no concern" status.

because in most occasion, the president need to fork out their own money to fund the activities.... thats the practical truth...

our problem is, super efficient marketing bussiness person dont see any value in non-profit sports industry. Thats why we stuck with politicians and royalty...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Oct 24 2011, 12:47 PM
zoomckng
post Oct 24 2011, 10:34 AM

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simple answer to this topic. look at badminton for example.

why msia will have have world class players at anytime, and different waves.

we need to start with the young ones. our future generations. groom them by getting them playing competitive football (with qualified coaches) at young age.

i used to have a foreigner came up to me and ask,"why all malaysians play good badminton?" LoL. simple, bcos we play with right technique and start at it from young age.

dont just start focusing after age of 18 or 21, by that time its too late. start grooming at age from 4-5.

get more exposure of them playing with correct techniques at taman level, daerah, town, etc.

speed, agility can be trained from early age. dont just rely on talent.
smwah
post Oct 24 2011, 11:53 AM

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Idea is good. But lack of hardwork and sustainability. We tend to opt for simple way even we know this is not the correct way. Actually this is problem not for football but also in business. Ppl are having kind of tak dapat pun tak apa janji boleh siap atau janji ada makan. Failure is success story, so failure is nothing. But the determination to reah our goal.
We need collabraion with ppl and business. I see Dunhill did a very good job on promoting the game. They really got gaya mutu keunggulan. But our players were hit by coroption tat time. I can't blame much on the players, they just lack of education of work and attitude. Why busineess coorperate need MBA? they need ppl on theory calculatin, management, risk etc. to ensure things go correct way. The rest will come to human character.
Most of them is like surender their life once they met the failure. Many of us will have kind of attitude that saying we are born to this life this is our destiny, we won't get much of it. So when lost they also dun feel wanted to fight back.
Nothing wrong had the dream to world cup. Wrong thing is we are saying it is a dream only, we must said this is our goal. We will do anything to get the goal. You can get many successfull story where one time ppl said them it will happen in ur dream only.


This post has been edited by smwah: Oct 24 2011, 12:00 PM
aressandro10
post Oct 24 2011, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(smwah @ Oct 24 2011, 11:53 AM)
Idea is good. But lack of hardwork and sustainability. We tend to opt for simple way even we know this is not the correct way. Actually this is problem not for football but also in business. Ppl are having kind of tak dapat pun tak apa janji boleh siap atau janji ada makan. Failure is success story, so failure is nothing. But the determination to reah our goal.
We need collabraion with ppl and business. I see Dunhill did a very good job on promoting the game. They really got gaya mutu keunggulan. But our players were hit by coroption tat time. I can't blame much on the players, they just lack of education of work and attitude. Why busineess coorperate need MBA? they need ppl on theory calculatin, management, risk etc. to ensure things go correct way. The rest will come to human character.
Most of them is like surender their life once they met the failure. Many of us will have kind of attitude that saying we are born to this life this is our destiny, we won't get much of it. So when lost they also dun feel wanted to fight back.
Nothing wrong had the dream to world cup. Wrong thing is we are saying it is a dream only, we must said this is our goal. We will do anything to get the goal. You can get many successfull story where one time ppl said them it will happen in ur dream only.
*
good stuff..
SpyMalaysia
post Nov 6 2011, 04:25 PM

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I was talking to a couple of European footballers playing for Penang (about 5/6 years ago).

I asked them what is the difference between the European leagues & the Malaysian leagues & they both said the European game is both faster & more physical.

They said that the skill level of many Malaysian footballers was comparable to European players but they lacked the vision of European footballers that had been groomed to play in a certain way from a very young age. In the game they call it having a 'footballing brain' & if you have not got this it is difficult for players to see the better opportunities on a football pitch.

The skill levels are definitely here in Malaysia, what is lacking is finding these skillful individuals at a young age & developing them through sports academies where they can also learn their education.

Ajax of Amsterdam have been doing this with massive success since the 1970's. All the BPL teams now have fantastic academies & the competition is intense trying to lure the best youngsters from as early an age as possible.

This approach obviously costs a lot of money but if Malaysia wants sporting success this is the approach that has to be followed.

The kids in the European academies are also taught about the benefits that proper nutrition offer in terms of strength, speed, stamina & their overall physical presence on the field. It not just about skill & tactics as sports scientists need to be employed to wean children away from eating 'nasi lemak' & guide them as to the correct amount of protein & carbohydrates in their diet to give them the best possible chance to physically compete on the world stage.

Sporting psychologists are also used to introduce a positive attitude with a mental toughness that results in 'the winning mentality' that Sir Alex Ferguson is so fond of quoting.

Until these things are implemented on a national scale it is nearly impossible for Malaysia to compete on the world football stage.
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post Nov 6 2011, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(SpyMalaysia @ Nov 6 2011, 04:25 PM)
I was talking to a couple of European footballers playing for Penang (about 5/6 years ago).

I asked them what is the difference between the European leagues & the Malaysian leagues & they both said the European game is both faster & more physical.

They said that the skill level of many Malaysian footballers was comparable to European players but they lacked the vision of European footballers that had been groomed to play in a certain way from a very young age. In the game they call it having a 'footballing brain' & if you have not got this it is difficult for players to see the better opportunities on a football pitch.

The skill levels are definitely here in Malaysia, what is lacking is finding these skillful individuals at a young age & developing them through sports academies where they can also learn their education.

Ajax of Amsterdam have been doing this with massive success since the 1970's. All the BPL teams now have fantastic academies & the competition is intense trying to lure the best youngsters from as early an age as possible.

This approach obviously costs a lot of money but if Malaysia wants sporting success this is the approach that has to be followed.

The kids in the European academies are also taught about the benefits that proper nutrition offer in terms of strength, speed, stamina & their overall physical presence on the field. It not just about skill & tactics as sports scientists need to be employed to wean children away from eating 'nasi lemak' & guide them as to the correct amount of protein & carbohydrates in their diet to give them the best possible chance to physically compete on the world stage.

Sporting psychologists are also used to introduce a positive attitude with a mental toughness that results in 'the winning mentality' that Sir Alex Ferguson is so fond of quoting.

Until these things are implemented on a national scale it is nearly impossible for Malaysia to compete on the world football stage.
*
here's the interesting part...how to develop vision? or what u called footballing brain?
ayanami_tard
post Nov 6 2011, 05:10 PM

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i just happy our football is moving the right way

when we complaint our national team suck balls,few people realize that most of the players comes from the state team.this is the best thing our league can produce right now.

wanna change?now terengganu are going to make their football academy as well.and if we watch the local football,we see that most top team already move on from the long pass,direct football to the more composed short pass,possession-esque football.the tempo is slow,i know,but due time,when we have the player who is comfortable playing this way,our overall technical play will increase,and our national team overall playing skills will rise as well

improve the game,improve the management,and all the money,support will come naturally
SpyMalaysia
post Nov 6 2011, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 6 2011, 04:54 PM)
here's the interesting part...how to develop vision? or what u called footballing brain?
*
That is something that can be gleaned rather than taught, talented kids need to be in an environment with coaches of the ilk of Glenn Hoddle that had a fantastic footballing brain & could see a pass that many could not. Having said that there are some fantastic academies in the UK now that are really starting to produce some talented youngsters & they are all being taught be ex pros that have gained UEFA coaching badges.

There used to be an Aston Villa/Rangers/Liverpool player of the name of Mark Walters & he was a very good pro, he had a younger brother who undoubtedly had more skill & was in the Guinness Book Of Records for keeping the ball in the air a record number of times. The problem was he did not have a footballing brain & was lost on the pitch.

The point is it is not just about seeing a great pass as you need anticipation & positional sense as well. These things come naturally to pro players as they had it ingrained into their psyche from an early age.
barca96
post Nov 7 2011, 05:06 PM

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Im not familiar with Msian football, sorry Dez Corkhill laugh.gif
But I remember when I came back to Msia back then, there was a buzz surrounding this kid who went to play in France. I reckon he must be over 20 now as he was around my age back then.

So where is he now?
Why is he not in the National team?
FLampard
post Nov 7 2011, 05:58 PM

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QUOTE(barca96 @ Nov 7 2011, 05:06 PM)
Im not familiar with Msian football, sorry Dez Corkhill laugh.gif
But I remember when I came back to Msia back then, there was a buzz surrounding this kid who went to play in France. I reckon he must be over 20 now as he was around my age back then.

So where is he now?
Why is he not in the National team?
*
titus james?
barca96
post Nov 7 2011, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 7 2011, 05:58 PM)
titus james?
*
yeah what happened to him?
he should be in his 20's now right?
why isn't he playing in the national team?
did he choose to play for france or what?
aressandro10
post Nov 7 2011, 11:40 PM

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general opinion among local football folowers is, he is not worth the bother...
Icahn
post Nov 8 2011, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Oct 19 2011, 07:37 PM)
changing FAM also no use unless we change society..... and belive me as imposible as the former sounds, the latter is much tougher...

Japan is better than us because thats what their society is. Better than us in every possible aspect. Better FA. Better coomercial. better players. better fans. the society is about collective effort by everybody for everybody. Kinda the right kind of socialism and communism.

not the selfish type we are.

*
But the Japanese are not better compared to us moral-wise, right? ( Akhlak in Islam ). They have the biggest porn industry Asia-wise ( lot of porn stars ) for God's sake!

They are the porn champions in Asia. Lots of Japanese men are sexual perverts!


Penuh dengan orang gila seks, penuh dengan bintang porno macam Maria Ozawa...

We haven't had any professional porn star yet. Even our people in the entertainment industry will run and hide overseas if their private porn videos are exposed....

This post has been edited by Icahn: Nov 8 2011, 12:50 AM
mdnosz
post Nov 8 2011, 01:04 PM

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is this thread about football or p0rn?

back to topic ..

i believe that we have the idea, a lot of inputs from the ex-players, the correct mindset, fans come and go but still we have the fan-base,

but all these ideas could not be achieved as long as we still have the same people in FAM .. they still have the same guy in the same team ..changing 1 or 2 people will not change anything.

lets change the president and we will see some changes ..

let the people with football brain take over FAM then we will see some changes ..

let the people with football brain do the planning, let them manage how football should be improve, which area, etc ..

this involved a lot of people from state FA's , our own league, academy, how kids play football in school, exposure to their parents on football career, facility , etc ..

thats a long way to go ...
volrath
post Nov 8 2011, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(SpyMalaysia @ Nov 6 2011, 04:25 PM)
I was talking to a couple of European footballers playing for Penang (about 5/6 years ago).

I asked them what is the difference between the European leagues & the Malaysian leagues & they both said the European game is both faster & more physical.

They said that the skill level of many Malaysian footballers was comparable to European players but they lacked the vision of European footballers that had been groomed to play in a certain way from a very young age. In the game they call it having a 'footballing brain' & if you have not got this it is difficult for players to see the better opportunities on a football pitch.

The skill levels are definitely here in Malaysia, what is lacking is finding these skillful individuals at a young age & developing them through sports academies where they can also learn their education.

Ajax of Amsterdam have been doing this with massive success since the 1970's. All the BPL teams now have fantastic academies & the competition is intense trying to lure the best youngsters from as early an age as possible.

This approach obviously costs a lot of money but if Malaysia wants sporting success this is the approach that has to be followed.

The kids in the European academies are also taught about the benefits that proper nutrition offer in terms of strength, speed, stamina & their overall physical presence on the field. It not just about skill & tactics as sports scientists need to be employed to wean children away from eating 'nasi lemak' & guide them as to the correct amount of protein & carbohydrates in their diet to give them the best possible chance to physically compete on the world stage.

Sporting psychologists are also used to introduce a positive attitude with a mental toughness that results in 'the winning mentality' that Sir Alex Ferguson is so fond of quoting.

Until these things are implemented on a national scale it is nearly impossible for Malaysia to compete on the world football stage.
*
nice piece. thumbup.gif

...and yea, im curious to what happened to the titus dude now?
ReAcTiVo
post Nov 8 2011, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(Icahn @ Nov 8 2011, 12:37 AM)
But the Japanese are not better compared to us moral-wise, right? ( Akhlak in Islam ). They have the biggest porn industry Asia-wise ( lot of porn stars ) for God's sake!

They are the porn champions in Asia. Lots of Japanese men are sexual perverts!
Penuh dengan orang gila seks, penuh dengan bintang porno macam Maria Ozawa...

We haven't had any professional porn star yet. Even our people in the entertainment industry will run and hide overseas if their private porn videos are exposed....
*
What the? doh.gif doh.gif

simple,
remove politic from football
Icahn
post Nov 8 2011, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(mdnosz @ Nov 8 2011, 01:04 PM)
is this thread about football or p0rn?

back to topic ..

i believe that we have the idea, a lot of inputs from the ex-players, the correct mindset, fans come and go but still we have the fan-base,

but all these ideas could not be achieved as long as we still have the same people in FAM .. they still have the same guy in the same team ..changing 1 or 2 people will not change anything.

lets change the president and we will see some changes ..

let the people with football brain take over FAM then we will see some changes ..

let the people with football brain do the planning, let them manage how football should be improve, which area, etc ..

this involved a lot of people from state FA's , our own league, academy, how kids play football in school, exposure to their parents on football career, facility , etc ..

thats a long way to go ...
*
Heh, just trying to make a point there, that's all.

What I have learnt in management is = Insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results/outcomes. --> meaning we just have to change and instil things that we haven't tried yet, and let the proven formula be. Like Marcelo Bielsa ( or someone else, just cant remember ) once said = Do not change a winning team.

What I see, recreating the Dasar Pandang ke Timur ( like what Perodua's JV with Daihatsu and Mitsui & Co did in our national automobile industry ) in football with Japan or South Korea will do us good.


Added on November 8, 2011, 2:34 pmwe just need more TSAMs as the top gun in FAM. Too much deadwoods in the organisation. They have been stagnant for such a long time that they make so much people sick with them. What we need is a TOTAL REVOLUTION in our football industry, mark my words. That's what the Japanese once did with their football industry ( you guys need to study how Yasuhiko Okudera's return to Japan from Germany brought with him the influx of viable ideas to revolutionize the Japanese football, what more when he was appointed as one of the decision makers in the JFA ).

This post has been edited by Icahn: Nov 8 2011, 02:34 PM
Angel of Deth
post Nov 8 2011, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(ReAcTiVo @ Nov 8 2011, 01:47 PM)
What the?  doh.gif  doh.gif

simple,
remove politic from football
*
???
I thought every organization in real life will have some sort of political connection. Sports or football industry is not an exception, they're often mixed (politic and sports). The only difference is whether passionate politician or corrupt politician run the show.
aressandro10
post Nov 8 2011, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(Icahn @ Nov 8 2011, 12:37 AM)
But the Japanese are not better compared to us moral-wise, right? ( Akhlak in Islam ). They have the biggest porn industry Asia-wise ( lot of porn stars ) for God's sake!

They are the porn champions in Asia. Lots of Japanese men are sexual perverts!
Penuh dengan orang gila seks, penuh dengan bintang porno macam Maria Ozawa...

We haven't had any professional porn star yet. Even our people in the entertainment industry will run and hide overseas if their private porn videos are exposed....
*
one way to look at it is.... even in porn they make sure they make and structure it properly so that they can be the best at it in their own way.... its in their guts..

if you have been to japan, you will find tenagers with spiky dyed hair, gothic makeup and neo nazi boots dengan penuh mesra sopan santun lemah gemalai budi pekerti mulia sambut customer dekat 7-11. kerja part time sebagai shopkeeper pon derang buat yang terbaik untuk kerja tu..

get it?

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Nov 8 2011, 11:33 PM
dundermifflin
post Nov 9 2011, 08:03 AM

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QUOTE(Angel of Deth @ Nov 8 2011, 04:54 PM)
???
I thought every organization in real life will have some sort of political connection. Sports or football industry is not an exception, they're often mixed (politic and sports). The only difference is whether passionate politician or corrupt politician run the show.
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this.

nothing wrong with politician being in FA. what's wrong are corrupted politician, or politician using the FA as a politic platform.

some politician also a passionate football fans, like us.
Icahn
post Nov 9 2011, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Nov 8 2011, 10:15 PM)
one way to look at it is.... even in porn they make sure they make and structure it properly so that they can be the best at it in their own way.... its in their guts..

if you have been to japan, you will find tenagers with spiky dyed hair, gothic makeup and neo nazi boots dengan penuh mesra sopan santun lemah gemalai budi pekerti mulia sambut customer dekat 7-11. kerja part time sebagai shopkeeper pon derang buat yang terbaik untuk kerja tu..

get it?
*
Astaghfirullahal azim, be the best in a dirty business, that is.
aressandro10
post Nov 11 2011, 03:02 AM

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QUOTE(Icahn @ Nov 9 2011, 11:11 AM)
Astaghfirullahal azim, be the best in a dirty business, that is.
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the point is be the best in whatever they choose to do...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Nov 11 2011, 03:03 AM
hj.pet
post Nov 12 2011, 09:53 PM

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for me one of the major prob is that in malaysia, even we have the so called our professional league, it doesnt produce good pro players. n parents dont see it (being a pro football player) is a good career choice. most parents would like to see their son n daughter to be a doctor, engineer, etc..
sawanishi
post Nov 13 2011, 01:41 AM

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QUOTE(hj.pet @ Nov 12 2011, 09:53 PM)
for me one of the major prob is that in malaysia, even we have the so called our professional league, it doesnt produce good pro players. n parents dont see it (being a pro football player) is a good career choice. most parents would like to see their son n daughter to be a doctor, engineer, etc..
*
+999999.totally agree.

hj.pet
post Nov 13 2011, 04:32 AM

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is it because of our mentality or our football standard has been very low that most of the parents want their children to go to universities instead of being footballer?
smwah
post Nov 13 2011, 08:36 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Nov 8 2011, 10:15 PM)
one way to look at it is.... even in porn they make sure they make and structure it properly so that they can be the best at it in their own way.... its in their guts..

if you have been to japan, you will find tenagers with spiky dyed hair, gothic makeup and neo nazi boots dengan penuh mesra sopan santun lemah gemalai budi pekerti mulia sambut customer dekat 7-11. kerja part time sebagai shopkeeper pon derang buat yang terbaik untuk kerja tu..

get it?
*
Yea agree. It is all about character and attitude. Not what u do but how u do. If u don't have the fundamental, even u do a simple thing a great thing or bad thing also cannot success.

The main problem is the attitude and character in our players and society. As what I mentioned before, ppl will opt for simple way to live their life, a less hardwork. Of course is nothign wrong, but if u want to be the best you must think the best, do the best, work the best.

Icahn
post Nov 13 2011, 08:24 PM

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QUOTE(hj.pet @ Nov 12 2011, 09:53 PM)
for me one of the major prob is that in malaysia, even we have the so called our professional league, it doesnt produce good pro players. n parents dont see it (being a pro football player) is a good career choice. most parents would like to see their son n daughter to be a doctor, engineer, etc..
*
Saya secara peribadi bersetuju 100% dengan inference ini. Saya sendiri dahulunya ( semasa kanak2 dan awal remaja ) merupakan seorang penjaga gol yang agak berbakat, tetapi saya mula focus on studies semasa berumur 14 tahun ( kebetulan pada masa itu pencapaian saya dalam studies agak memberangsangkan apabila saya focus 100% ). Tambahan pula saya agak lambat membesar dari segi ketinggian ( umur 17 tahun baru fully grown in terms of height, nak jadi keeper tahap dunia memang kena tinggi, tinggi saya hanyalah 171cm jadi saya tak yakin mampu make it big in World level as a GK ). Kalau nak berjaya hanya dalam South East Asian level saya rasa saya mampu...Ini terbukti kerana saya pernah tidak aktif selama lebih kurang 3 tahun, tetapi apabila saya mula aktif kembali bermain futsal hujung minggu, sentuhan dan reflex saya sebagai GK masih ada, ianya tidak hilang, cuma perlu training dengan lebih kerap. ( btw umur saya sekarang dah 27 tahun ).

Ditambah lagi dengan environment bola sepak Malaysia yg agak tidak memberangsangkan ( saya membesar belasan tahun semasa zaman pertengahan 90an dan awal 2000 ), tiada blueprint dan football environment yang sangat cemerlang seperti Jepun, Korea dan Australia. Pengalaman saya semasa mewakili sekolah rendah dahulu, guru2 yang menjaga bahagian bola sepak langsung tidak mempunyai qualification dan ilmu bola sepak yg cukup. Sekadar tangkap muat sahaja, sangat berbeza apabila saya bermain mewakili peringkat kelab remaja semasa saya berumur 15 tahun...

Tambahan pula injury adalah masalah yg paling ditakuti football players ( ramai talented players yg sudah effected long term, seperti Azrul Amri Borhan, Zaquan Adha dan ramai lagi ), apa lagi dengan career span yg hanya sehingga berumur 35 tahun sahaja. Paling sedih apabila melihat pemain seperti Khairul Azman Mohamad dan beberapa lagi pemain yg cedera teruk selepas retired, sehingga ada ketikanya tidak mampu untuk bekerja sebagai coach sekalipun ( lantaran injury, tak mampu berjalan hanya boleh berkerusi roda. Perlu perbelanjaan rm16K untuk knee op. ).

Akan tetapi, saya teramat merindui zaman semasa saya aktif bermain bola dahulu ketika awal remaja, tiap2 hari 2, 3 jam sehari dihabiskan untuk bermain bola sepak. Zaman yg sangat carefree dan enjoyable. Walaupun kini saya masih aktif bermain futsal terutamanya pada waktu malam hujung minggu, ini tidak dapat dibandingkan dengan zaman ketika saya bermain bola sepak secara penuh komitmen pada masa dahulu.

P/S : Parents saya juga tida berapa support dari segi aktiviti saya ini. Bapa saya tidak pernah membelikan saya but bola sepak ataupun apa2 football equipments untuk saya ( saya datang dari lower-middle income family dengan adik beradik yg ramai ). Lama kemudian apabila saya sudah agak dewasa, bapa saya pernah confess yg dia sebenarnya support secara senyap, tidak secara terbuka( ini terbukti apabila difikirkan balik, dia tidak pernah menghalang saya daripada menghadiri latihan bola sepak, dan hanya akan marah2 apabila saya lambat sembahyang maghrib, ye lah habis training hanya pada pukul 8 malam, masa itu lagi 5 minit nak masuk waktu Isya' ), dan dia memang boleh bagi mental support kepada saya kalau saya memang ada big achievement dan ingin meneruskan to make it big in football, asalkan saya tidak mengabaikan studies.

Pointnya kat sini? Pencapaian bola sepak Malaysia pada masa itu yg agak teruk dan environment yg tidak condusive. Kecuali lah anda amat berbakat seperti Fandi Ahmad dan Mokhtar Dahari, mungkin ini bukan masalah bagi anda...You still can make it big no matter what.

This post has been edited by Icahn: Nov 13 2011, 08:29 PM
Ichighost
post Nov 13 2011, 08:39 PM

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QUOTE(Icahn @ Nov 13 2011, 09:24 PM)
Saya secara peribadi bersetuju 100% dengan inference ini. Saya sendiri dahulunya ( semasa kanak2 dan awal remaja ) merupakan seorang penjaga gol yang agak berbakat, tetapi saya mula focus on studies semasa berumur 14 tahun ( kebetulan pada masa itu pencapaian saya dalam studies agak memberangsangkan apabila saya focus 100% ). Tambahan pula saya agak lambat membesar dari segi ketinggian ( umur 17 tahun baru fully grown in terms of height, nak jadi keeper tahap dunia memang kena tinggi, tinggi saya hanyalah 171cm jadi saya tak yakin mampu make it big in World level as a GK ). Kalau nak berjaya hanya dalam South East Asian level saya rasa saya mampu...Ini terbukti kerana saya pernah tidak aktif selama lebih kurang 3 tahun, tetapi apabila saya mula aktif kembali bermain futsal hujung minggu, sentuhan dan reflex saya sebagai GK masih ada, ianya tidak hilang, cuma perlu training dengan lebih kerap. ( btw umur saya sekarang dah 27 tahun ).

   Ditambah lagi dengan environment bola sepak Malaysia yg agak tidak memberangsangkan ( saya membesar belasan tahun semasa zaman pertengahan 90an dan awal 2000 ), tiada blueprint dan football environment yang sangat cemerlang seperti Jepun, Korea dan Australia. Pengalaman saya semasa mewakili sekolah rendah dahulu, guru2 yang menjaga bahagian bola sepak langsung tidak mempunyai qualification dan ilmu bola sepak yg cukup. Sekadar tangkap muat sahaja, sangat berbeza apabila saya bermain mewakili peringkat kelab remaja semasa saya berumur 15 tahun...

  Tambahan pula injury adalah masalah yg paling ditakuti football players ( ramai talented players yg sudah effected long term, seperti Azrul Amri Borhan, Zaquan Adha dan ramai lagi ), apa lagi dengan career span yg hanya sehingga berumur 35 tahun sahaja. Paling sedih apabila melihat pemain seperti Khairul Azman Mohamad dan beberapa lagi pemain yg cedera teruk selepas retired, sehingga ada ketikanya tidak mampu untuk bekerja sebagai coach sekalipun ( lantaran injury, tak mampu berjalan hanya boleh berkerusi roda. Perlu perbelanjaan rm16K untuk knee op. ).

Akan tetapi, saya teramat merindui zaman semasa saya aktif bermain bola dahulu ketika awal remaja, tiap2 hari 2, 3 jam sehari dihabiskan untuk bermain bola sepak. Zaman yg sangat carefree dan enjoyable. Walaupun kini saya masih aktif bermain futsal terutamanya pada waktu malam hujung minggu, ini tidak dapat dibandingkan dengan zaman ketika saya bermain bola sepak secara penuh komitmen pada masa dahulu.

P/S : Parents saya juga tida berapa support dari segi aktiviti saya ini. Bapa saya tidak pernah membelikan saya but bola sepak ataupun apa2 football equipments untuk saya ( saya datang dari lower-middle income family dengan adik beradik yg ramai ). Lama kemudian apabila saya sudah agak dewasa, bapa saya pernah confess yg dia sebenarnya support secara senyap, tidak secara terbuka( ini terbukti apabila difikirkan balik, dia tidak pernah menghalang saya daripada menghadiri latihan bola sepak, dan hanya akan marah2 apabila saya lambat sembahyang maghrib, ye lah habis training hanya pada pukul 8 malam, masa itu lagi 5 minit nak masuk waktu Isya' ), dan dia memang boleh bagi mental support kepada saya kalau saya memang ada big achievement dan ingin meneruskan to make it big in football, asalkan saya tidak mengabaikan studies.

Pointnya kat sini? Pencapaian bola sepak Malaysia pada masa itu yg agak teruk dan environment yg tidak condusive. Kecuali lah anda amat berbakat seperti Fandi Ahmad dan Mokhtar Dahari, mungkin ini bukan masalah bagi anda...You still can make it big no matter what.
*
dont force the issue...try alternative...i think sport school mcm BJ dan BP already done their part...now every states should have their own sport school...if you attend sport school you will get almost everything...equipment..kits..training...enough as a kick-start to be a professional footballer...clubs can also provide scholarship to the talented youngsters to continue learning football from the sport school...be patron to the kids..with sport school...parents cant argue about the money...about the time management...(solat...study...dll)..and about education...the way i see this sport school mcm bdk2 BJ usually akan continue bwh Harimau Muda B...then Harimau Muda A...if the players for example from any sport school at pahang...can continue for Pahang reserves...personally with current mentallity and our culture...one of the solution will be more and more sport school...or sport school special for football...but school part must be there... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Ichighost: Nov 13 2011, 08:41 PM
aressandro10
post Nov 14 2011, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(Ichighost @ Nov 13 2011, 08:39 PM)
dont force the issue...try alternative...i think sport school mcm BJ dan BP already done their part...now every states should have their own sport school...if you attend sport school you will get almost everything...equipment..kits..training...enough as a kick-start to be a professional footballer...clubs can also provide scholarship to the talented youngsters to continue learning football from the sport school...be patron to the kids..with sport school...parents cant argue about the money...about the time management...(solat...study...dll)..and about education...the way i see this sport school mcm bdk2 BJ usually akan continue bwh Harimau Muda B...then Harimau Muda A...if the players for example from any sport school at pahang...can continue for Pahang reserves...personally with current mentallity and our culture...one of the solution will be more and more sport school...or sport school special for football...but school part must be there... biggrin.gif
*
school teachers that specialise in football are rare and but can be found in project schools all over the country. Schools like Seksen 11 Shah Alam and Sultan Sulaimain at Terengganu are example of project schools that create many national team players...

Duke Red
post Nov 14 2011, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Nov 14 2011, 08:31 AM)
school teachers that specialise in football are rare and but can be found in project schools all over the country. Schools like Seksen 11 Shah Alam and Sultan Sulaimain at Terengganu are example of project schools that create many national team players...
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The thing is coaching licenses aren't all that hard to attain especially if it's to oversee kids. My colleague just got his after a couple of weeks. We need to start at grassroot level, something you hear quite often in the papers but never really see addressed. Kids need to be spotted at a primary level and Physical Ed teachers need to have basic coaching expertise at least to cultivate their talent. Not everyone can afford to send their kids for coaching clinics.
mdnosz
post Nov 14 2011, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Nov 14 2011, 08:31 AM)
school teachers that specialise in football are rare and but can be found in project schools all over the country. Schools like Seksen 11 Shah Alam and Sultan Sulaimain at Terengganu are example of project schools that create many national team players...
*
hehe ..smp s11 .. ikut pngalaman aku skolah kt situ, the teachers there are very2 supportive when it come to sports.. tp silap budak2 ni jugak la salah kawan, join gangster la, isap rokok, etc ..discipline issue, benda2 ni la yg menghalang diorang utk pegi lebih jauh ..




barca96
post Nov 14 2011, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Nov 7 2011, 11:40 PM)
general opinion among local football folowers is, he is not worth the bother...
*
seriously?
i thought he would be a class above the guys in malaysia
Angel of Deth
post Nov 14 2011, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(barca96 @ Nov 14 2011, 12:48 PM)
seriously?
i thought he would be a class above the guys in malaysia
*
Yes, there are set of young player that are more exciting to watch in MAS - U23 squad.
syazwan
post Nov 14 2011, 03:22 PM

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senang je, berapa byk teams yang berani spend 2-3 juta utk akademi je?
jawapan aku takde.

tiap2 tahun nak piala presiden kena carik player baru buat open selection..masalahnye mana player akademi yang dorang dok canang tu?

Piala Presiden bukan level akademi bolasepak dah..tu level antara ko dapat main liga atasan atau main semi pro weekend football je
ayanami_tard
post Nov 14 2011, 04:08 PM

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i think we should give more attention to IPT league as well

these lads(obviously depending on their University,some Universities give much attention to their football team,some ain't) is a huge untapped source for footballing talent as well.only now we give attention to IPT players

it should be easier,since the infrastructure at universities are adequate to begin with and the only thing needed is some endorsement from state and country FA.and technical expertise as well
Icahn
post Nov 14 2011, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(ayanami_tard @ Nov 14 2011, 04:08 PM)
i think we should give more attention to IPT league as well

these lads(obviously depending on their University,some Universities give much attention to their football team,some ain't) is a huge untapped source for footballing talent as well.only now we give attention to IPT players

it should be easier,since the infrastructure at universities are adequate to begin with and the only thing needed is some endorsement from state and country FA.and technical expertise as well
*
This is spot on. Negara yg mengamalkan benda ni dengan successful ialah Japan dan US. As an example, Nagatomo ( Inter Milan ) decided to further his studies first kat uni, tapi dia still represent his uni ( his uni has a strong football programme and environment ).


Added on November 14, 2011, 4:24 pm
QUOTE(Ichighost @ Nov 13 2011, 08:39 PM)
dont force the issue...try alternative...i think sport school mcm BJ dan BP already done their part...now every states should have their own sport school...if you attend sport school you will get almost everything...equipment..kits..training...enough as a kick-start to be a professional footballer...clubs can also provide scholarship to the talented youngsters to continue learning football from the sport school...be patron to the kids..with sport school...parents cant argue about the money...about the time management...(solat...study...dll)..and about education...the way i see this sport school mcm bdk2 BJ usually akan continue bwh Harimau Muda B...then Harimau Muda A...if the players for example from any sport school at pahang...can continue for Pahang reserves...personally with current mentallity and our culture...one of the solution will be more and more sport school...or sport school special for football...but school part must be there... biggrin.gif
*
Hmm, tetapi pengalaman aku secara peribadi, sejak aku berumur 13 tahun lagi aku bersekolah kat sekolah agama premier ( among the best school ) in Kelantan masa tu. Walaupun ianya sekolah harian ( aku ada senior yg represent Malaysia in football from this school, even adik dia pun still main lagi dalam Liga Super sekarang ni ), tetapi kerana ia merupakan sekolah yg sangat akademik, penuh competition academically dan dikelilingi oleh so many smart students, aku jadi terdesak untuk excel academically, jadi since 14 years old aku slowly kurangkan aktiviti bola sepak untuk focus kat akademik. Kalau SSBJ dan SSBP ada fokus akademik yg sama hebat dan sama competitive seperti premier schools ni ( dengan harapan students takkan abaikan studies ), aku rasa parents takkan ada sebarang keraguan untuk menghantar anak2 mereka ke sekolah2 seperti ini.

Aku x pernah ada kenalan yg belajar kat sport schools seperti ini, jadi aku memang takde pengalaman mengenai persekitaran dan environment sekolah2 macam SSBP ni.

Off topic = dulu aku ada satu set of friends ( medical n engineering students ) yang memang power gila main bola ( kitorang selalu main futsal bersama ). Aku tak rasa diorang ada masalah untuk compete mewakili Malaysia kalau diorang belajar kat sports school sejak daripada remaja lagi.

Btw dulu ada sorang pemain Kelantan, nama Nik apa ntah, habiskan belajar sehinggi engineering degree, baru dia decide untuk main bola professionally untuk Kelantan. Sekarang dah retired.....


Added on November 14, 2011, 4:32 pm
QUOTE(syazwan @ Nov 14 2011, 03:22 PM)
senang je, berapa byk teams yang berani spend 2-3 juta utk akademi je?
jawapan aku takde.

tiap2 tahun nak piala presiden kena carik player baru buat open selection..masalahnye mana player akademi yang dorang dok canang tu?

Piala Presiden bukan level akademi bolasepak dah..tu level antara ko dapat main liga atasan atau main semi pro weekend football je
*
Kelantan pun baru nak start dengan ARMY, tu pun sejak TSAM pegang. Zaman aku budak2 dulu memang takde sangat program macam ni. Negeri2 lain aku x tau, tapi aku dengar Kenari Kids dulu memang bagus gak.


Added on November 14, 2011, 4:42 pmBtw pada pendapat aku ( dan sesetengah orang ) antara bangsa yang paling berbakat main bola walaupun mungkin diorang takde football development yg bagus, pada peringkat Asia ialah bangsa Iraq. Generasi yg menang Piala Asia 07 dan ke semi final Olympic 2004 adalah antara yg paling cemerlang walaupun negara diorang bergolak dengan perang dan penuh kacau bilau. Korang bayangkan dengan keadaan akademi bola pun mungkin tak berjalan dengan lancar diorang mampu conquer Asia dan excel in Olympic, kalau diorang ada football development, financial backing dan exposure yang setaraf dengan Jepun, mungkin dah lama diorang conquer in international level.

Satu lagi cuba korang tengok, kenapa orang Algeria yg lahir dan membesar dekat Perancis boleh jadi world class footballers seperti Zidane, Samir Nasri, dan Karim Benzema, sedangkan hanya baru2 ini je Algeria layak ke World Cup 2010, dan bangsa Algeria memang tidak terkenal sebagai negara kuasa bola sepak. Pada pendapat aku, of course kerana football development dan exposure yang sangat bagus kat Perancis itu sendiri, so that talents can be developed to the max.

This post has been edited by Icahn: Nov 14 2011, 04:44 PM
aressandro10
post Nov 14 2011, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 14 2011, 08:47 AM)
The thing is coaching licenses aren't all that hard to attain especially if it's to oversee kids. My colleague just got his after a couple of weeks. We need to start at grassroot level, something you hear quite often in the papers but never really see addressed. Kids need to be spotted at a primary level and Physical Ed teachers need to have basic coaching expertise at least to cultivate their talent. Not everyone can afford to send their kids for coaching clinics.
*
the truth is, the overall handling of Physical Education in the academic community need to be changed first. Currently there are no impetus for PE teachers to upgrade themselve because PE as a subject is not taken as important compare to other academic subjects...

frankly speaking, sports are something where one ministry has to do the petty grassroot job but another ministry gets the credit if it succeed.... in Malaysia, that is a recipe for work never got done..

my wish is for the goverment to apply a scheme to retrain retired athlete to become 'special' school teachers. Currently this idea will be shot down if the gov want to reduce the big public workforce, but i like for this idea to give a special consideration as it has a snowball effect to both student and teachers. Student will get opportunity to learn from first hand experience and the former athlete will have a more stable life after retiring and this will be a bridge for them to get the appropriate coaching license if the want to pursue to become pro coach.

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Nov 14 2011, 05:46 PM
pkiensing
post Nov 14 2011, 05:42 PM

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malaysia mix everything to football... not just football but also everything or any sports...

what they mix?

the best thing they mix with is "race" and "religions".
Angel of Deth
post Nov 14 2011, 07:04 PM

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Typical answer with no constructive content.
Duke Red
post Nov 15 2011, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Nov 14 2011, 05:40 PM)
the truth is, the overall handling of Physical Education in the academic community need to be changed first. Currently there are no impetus for PE teachers to upgrade themselve because PE as a subject is not taken as important compare to other academic subjects...

frankly speaking, sports are something where one ministry has to do the petty grassroot job but another ministry gets the credit if it succeed.... in Malaysia, that is a recipe for work never got done..

my wish is for the goverment to apply a scheme to retrain retired athlete to become 'special' school teachers. Currently this idea will be shot down if the gov want to reduce the big public workforce, but i like for this idea to give a special consideration as it has a snowball effect to both student and teachers. Student will get opportunity to learn from first hand experience and the former athlete will have a more stable life after retiring and this will be a bridge for them to get the appropriate coaching license if the want to pursue to become pro coach.
*
You are right there. I remember during my days in school that PE was a ponteng class type subject. There wasn't a focus on a specific sport or game. You went to the field and either got chucked on the football pitch or the basketball court and it was a free for all. No referees, no guidance, nothing. You had to join the sports clubs for that and not every student can whether it's because they have to help out their parents with work after school, or they had to study. Even when I did attend football or basketball after school, the teacher's knowledge was pretty basic and his task was more about selecting good players rather than improving every player. Potential isn't always evident right away.

I think the same problem is plaguing PE teachers. They aren't getting paid enough. It's pretty simple. How much does a teacher get? I remember that in math, I came up with equations my teacher couldn't comprehend as I liked exploring formulas and deriving alternate solutions. My only fear about introducing retired athletes is unless he had a pretty successful footballing career during and post playing, the kids going to look at him and go, "what? play football all my life and end up with a mediocre car and house?". I think the Ministry of Education should look into sending all PE teachers to coaching clinics as a first step and develop a more systematic approach to monitoring school kids e.g. monthly report cards, video footages, etc and that make it a KPI for these PE teachers. I mean there are so many schools around we can't send them all former players.
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post Nov 15 2011, 08:35 PM

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An article that sums up why we will never be better than japan in anything...



A nation of sports couch potatoes

By Umapagan Ampikaipakan | 0 comments

CULTURE CHANGE: We need to do more to support our champions

Nicol David made history twice last week by being the first active player in the history of the game to be inducted into the World Squash Federation Hall of Fame and by winning a record sixth Women’s World Open crown. - AFP

1 / 1

We do not have a sporting culture in this country. Which isn't to say we don't enjoy it. We Malaysians are the perennial sports fans. (There are, after all, 10 dedicated sports channels on television.) We are ardent observers. We are passionate commentators. We are not, however, a nation of sportsmen and sportswomen.

And why should we be? For there has never been a concerted national effort towards it. Despite the Tunku's firm belief that sports would be a driving force for national unity, we have always allowed it -- like literature, like music, like art -- to fall by the wayside, to be something merely incidental. It is a social activity. A hobby. It is exercise. Nothing more. Parents do not encourage their children to take up sport as a vocation. Neither does policy.

Why? Because it's hard. Because it's risky. There are no guaranteed returns when it comes to such endeavours. It isn't like becoming a doctor, or an engineer, or a lawyer. Where even mediocrity allows you a chance to get by. To make a vocation out of sport requires a lifetime commitment. It requires you to constantly strive to be the best and to be the first.

So we put our money where it is safe. We invest in the sure thing. We tell our children that while sport is an important activity, it isn't the most important activity. We tell them to get involved but not too involved. Because at the end of the day, it is merely another distraction from their books.

And we wonder what happened to our national football. And we wonder why we never seem to get too many golds.

Nicol David made history twice last week. The first time by being the first active player in the history of the game to be inducted into the World Squash Federation Hall of Fame. The second time, just 24 hours later, by winning a record sixth Women's World Open crown and becoming not just the best but the best ever.

The general perception, however, was that she did so in spite of our national shortcomings. That her remarkable talent was honed with the encouragement and support of those closest and dearest to her rather than a nation looking to develop and bolster the talents of its citizens.

"In spite of." They are three words that we have been hearing a lot lately. About all those Malaysians, both here and abroad, who have made something of themselves. That their successes are somehow "in spite of", that they have, for whatever reason, transcended our education system, our national policies, our societal idiosyncrasies.

"In spite of." They are three words that really do rankle. And rightly so. For while we can claim greatness on the part of our citizens, we can in no way claim credit for them. We have, as a society, as a nation, been unapologetically stifling towards our talent. Inadvertently shooing them away to greener pastures.

A sports culture is not something that happens overnight. It needs to be developed over time. And it needs to be rooted in participation and not just in observation. We need to be active not passive.

We have, over the last five decades as a nation, failed to realise that all enduring traditions -- be it in sport, or in literature, or in art -- begins with a set of social practices that celebrate those particular norms and values. That it is about building capacity. That it is about creating a sense of continuity.

The simple fact is that we need to do more to support the Nicol Davids of Malaysia and all those who want to be like her. Financially. Emotionally. Spiritually. Why? Because these are our national heroes. They are the symbols of everything that is great about our country. They are our ambassadors to the world.

For the moment, however, these individuals, who so proudly don the Jalur Gemilang, will have to continue carrying Malaysia on their shoulders. It is a heavy burden and one that really should be the other way around.


Read more: A nation of sports couch potatoes - Columnist - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/opinion/columnist/a-...3#ixzz1dmDs3BTt
sawanishi
post Nov 15 2011, 08:49 PM

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Fakta negara kita merupakan negara yang ngetop dari segi obesiti dapat menjelaskan bagaimana tahap budaya sukan di kalangan org ramai.
ayil
post Nov 20 2011, 04:36 AM

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should've let dunhill to rules the league.
bojek
post Nov 20 2011, 06:51 AM

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from my opinion, model harimau Muda ni dah bagus. jika each state sanggup keluarkan bajet untuk support football, kita akan ada 14 team yang training dekat luar negara, instead of one. this way we will have a larger pool of talent to be picked. tapi the issue here is money.

I think we have come to a time where the whole country itself kena beralah dengan sukan bola sepak in terms of money spend to improve our football "industry". jangan takut berbelanja besar, yang penting perbelanjaannya yang betul dan efektif.

di Jepun, nak develop satu player 2,3 juta dibelanje.
kita 2,3 juta untuk satu team. mane same. duhh.
jiwangpop
post Nov 20 2011, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(bojek @ Nov 20 2011, 06:51 AM)
from my opinion, model harimau Muda ni dah bagus. jika each state sanggup keluarkan bajet untuk support football, kita akan ada 14 team yang training dekat luar negara, instead of one. this way we will have a larger pool of talent to be picked. tapi the issue here is money.

I think we have come to a time where the whole country itself kena beralah dengan sukan bola sepak in terms of money spend to improve our football "industry". jangan takut berbelanja besar, yang penting perbelanjaannya yang betul dan efektif.

di Jepun, nak develop satu player 2,3 juta dibelanje.
kita 2,3 juta untuk satu team. mane same. duhh.
*
itu saya sokong, tapi antara benda yang paling utama,

antara prinsip yang perlu kita pegang kalau mahu lihat malaysia menang piala dunia ialah

HENDAK SERIBU DAYA, BERJUTA USAHA, TAK HENDAK SERIBU DALIH, BERJUTA ALASAN

contohnya macam antara pemain terbaik di dunia ini Frank Ribery yang skill gelecek bola dia antara tahap dewa sungguh, lari pun macam pelesit


masa kecil dia sepatutnya sudah mampus sebab kemalangan terlampau teruk, kepala dia kena minimum 100 jahitan dan rupa bentuk muka dia sudah habis lari, tapi benda tu tak menghalang dia langsung untuk jadi antara pemain terbaik abad ini di perancis dan juga perancis.

Cristiano Ronaldo, keyakinan dia amat tinggi sungguh sampai dia amat berani kata dalam setiap perlawanan dia akan kalahkan minimum 5 orang pertahanan, tak ada dapat kalahkan dia, dan dia memang sudah berjaya buktikan pun.

Roberto Baggio pula sepanjang kareer dia main bola dengan guna satu setengah kaki sahaja sebab cedera teruk kena tackle di liga itali,
tapi benda tu tak pernah langsung halang dia untuk jadi pemain di Itali


Gattuso pula main amat sungguh-sungguh sampai dikatakan sekarang sebelah mata dia sudah buta..

jurulatih negara China sebelum ni, masa kempen kelayakan piala dunia sebelum ni dia pernah kata kalau cina tak dapat masuk kejuaraan piala dunia, dia akan terjun bunuh diri dari tembok besar cina, dan negara cina memang berjaya masuk piala dunia masa tu !!

diaorang semua ni cinta kepada sukan bola sepak, azam, keyakinan sentiasa di tahap amat tertinggi, kita pula asyik sibuk buat alasan macam-macam sad.gif

This post has been edited by jiwangpop: Nov 20 2011, 11:44 AM
Icahn
post Nov 24 2011, 09:40 PM

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Bump
SUShack3line
post Nov 25 2011, 02:23 PM

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meanwhile in japan, how they train their footballers blink.gif


fuuuhh, they really apply captain tsubasa comic/manga crazy ideas ohmy.gif


Added on November 25, 2011, 2:32 pmanother Japanese footballer training from official ADIDAS JAPAN youtube channel, juggle and balancing the egg on their feet


sweat.gif sweat.gif sweat.gif

Japanese footballers power shot training, shoot perfect and breaking the wood


Japanese footballers ball control training, collect all the ball and put it in the same place together


This post has been edited by hack3line: Nov 25 2011, 02:32 PM
nouruddines
post Nov 27 2011, 05:50 AM

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we should have a lot of talented player like farkri..enuff said
whatsupbro
post Nov 28 2011, 06:53 PM

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to all those who commented negatively.. take a look at yourself.. What is YOUR contribution? apa sumbangan anda?

How to contribute?? Instead of just BPL and La Liga... Support the local league too...

Send your children for a football academy... encourage them all the time.. Be part of your own local society's football academy..

Promote the games via FB,Blogs,Twitter and all kind of new media...

HARIMAU MALAYA DOT COM... there is a place to start.. be passionate with our own team.. cos we are being represented by them...

If we start complaining too much.. but contributes nothing.. Its probably best if you just make yourself busy with other sports... Recent success in SEA GAMES shows the level that we are currently in...

A true Supporter is the one who always stand behind the team even if the team is losing...


bojek
post Nov 28 2011, 08:22 PM

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maybe kita boleh join venture dengan team myanmar in terms of sharing football knowledge. from the semi final game I can see their player are quite skilful, one level better than us in terms dribbling. so brazillian like. gentel bola melekat dekat kaki.

our next transformation/ nurture target are strikers/ wingers that have speed, stamina and most of all skill and not to forget football brain!!!




ayanami_tard
post Nov 28 2011, 08:27 PM

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i remember when i watched Astro Arena,mr Richard Scully said that we have 14 of potential Nazmi-like player that will come to Young Tigers' squad

so,in one part,FAM already did their part in improving our int'l football.now it's up to all the state FA/club to do the same
Duke Red
post Nov 29 2011, 05:52 PM

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Spoke to someone who has a "B" coaching license but was told he cannot apply for an "A" license because you need to have been a former state player amongst other criteria. Anyway, he enlightened me on one specific issue - team selection.


-         To play in the national team you need to be part of IPT (Institute Pergajian Tinggi) and every year they will have the IPT tournament for football/futsal and also other sports.
-          And IPT consists of all the government colleges & universities in Malaysia and one of the requirements to play for the national team is that you need to play in this league coz this is where the scouting happens.
-          Last time only government colleges and universities were allowed to play so colleges like Monash, Sunway, Inti, etc can’t take part.
-          Only recently they started to open up but no other colleges & universities have taken part. The closest is University Tun Abdul Razak.

I think this explains why you don't see too many Indians or Chinese in local football teams. It isn't about the lack of money certainly. I think they need to run more programmes at private universities as well. Also, limiting it to universities means that poor rural kids whose parents can't afford tertiary education for them, miss out.
aressandro10
post Nov 29 2011, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 29 2011, 05:52 PM)
Spoke to someone who has a "B" coaching license but was told he cannot apply for an "A" license because you need to have been a former state player amongst other criteria. Anyway, he enlightened me on one specific issue - team selection.
-         To play in the national team you need to be part of IPT (Institute Pergajian Tinggi) and every year they will have the IPT tournament for football/futsal and also other sports.
-          And IPT consists of all the government colleges & universities in Malaysia and one of the requirements to play for the national team is that you need to play in this league coz this is where the scouting happens.
-          Last time only government colleges and universities were allowed to play so colleges like Monash, Sunway, Inti, etc can’t take part.
-          Only recently they started to open up but no other colleges & universities have taken part. The closest is University Tun Abdul Razak.

I think this explains why you don't see too many Indians or Chinese in local football teams. It isn't about the lack of money certainly. I think they need to run more programmes at private universities as well. Also, limiting it to universities means that poor rural kids whose parents can't afford tertiary education for them, miss out.
*
thats strange.....

most national team players jump straight from SSBJ to the national team.. i doubt half of them passed their SPM.... let alone proceeding for tertiery education...

and part time amaterur IPT league level is too low.... one would rate them lower than the President Cup U-21 level...

although, there are recent effort by K. Rajagobal to absorb amateur Malaysia University Team players, namely K. Reuben and that balding UiTm defender, into the national team, but that are more exception than norm. And they also readily admit that level of fitness was way different between League players and IPT league level players....

i would like to modify your theory a bit.

national team players selected from SSBJ. SSBJ students are selected from primary school tournaments. I think this explains why you don't see too many Indians or Chinese in local football teams.


Duke Red
post Nov 29 2011, 06:37 PM

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Not my theory actually I'm repeating what I was told by this bloke I mentioned. Like I said, he is trying to get his class "A" coaching license but was denied. He plays for a pretty good team and participates in local tournaments.
ayanami_tard
post Nov 29 2011, 06:41 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 29 2011, 06:52 PM)
Spoke to someone who has a "B" coaching license but was told he cannot apply for an "A" license because you need to have been a former state player amongst other criteria. Anyway, he enlightened me on one specific issue - team selection.
-         To play in the national team you need to be part of IPT (Institute Pergajian Tinggi) and every year they will have the IPT tournament for football/futsal and also other sports.
-          And IPT consists of all the government colleges & universities in Malaysia and one of the requirements to play for the national team is that you need to play in this league coz this is where the scouting happens.
-          Last time only government colleges and universities were allowed to play so colleges like Monash, Sunway, Inti, etc can’t take part.
-          Only recently they started to open up but no other colleges & universities have taken part. The closest is University Tun Abdul Razak.

I think this explains why you don't see too many Indians or Chinese in local football teams. It isn't about the lack of money certainly. I think they need to run more programmes at private universities as well. Also, limiting it to universities means that poor rural kids whose parents can't afford tertiary education for them, miss out.
*
there are football and futsal tourney held between public and private college/uni.for private institution,those are under MASISWA(majlis sukan institusi swasta).
i dunno about your place but in sabah they did football/futsal tourney alot.lads from Masterskill,Inti,KBU college all attended,alongside UMS,UiTM and polytechnic lads

and about them rural kids,there are always football clinics/participation held by either KBS,state FA or political party(UMNO.yes UMNO.i only see them organize sports tourney.usually badminton and sepak takraw,but there are also football). those players you see playing in local league,a large bit are from rural area.

the IPT league are there to make university students to be more physically active,and to find raw gem to be absorbed in the state/national team.

it's hard to find chinese player because they are into either bowling or basketball nowadays. luckily sabahan chinese people are more adventurous and there are chinese players already in Sabah FC(kinda like feeder club to sabah FA) and UMS
Duke Red
post Nov 29 2011, 06:48 PM

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QUOTE(ayanami_tard @ Nov 29 2011, 06:41 PM)
there are football and futsal tourney held between public and private college/uni.for private institution,those are under MASISWA(majlis sukan institusi swasta).
i dunno about your place but in sabah they did football/futsal tourney alot.lads from Masterskill,Inti,KBU college all attended,alongside UMS,UiTM and polytechnic lads

and about them rural kids,there are always football clinics/participation held by either KBS,state FA or political party(UMNO.yes UMNO.i only see them organize sports tourney.usually badminton and sepak takraw,but there are also football). those players you see playing in local league,a large bit are from rural area.

the IPT league are there to make university students to be more physically active,and to find raw gem to be absorbed in the state/national team.

it's hard to find chinese player because they are into either bowling or basketball nowadays. luckily sabahan chinese people are more adventurous and there are chinese players already in Sabah FC(kinda like feeder club to sabah FA) and UMS
*
I can't imagine why the Chinese would avoid football by choice. I mean it pays much better than bowling or basketball.

I think it's safe to say that there are ample local tournaments but the questions is, are there scouts present? Also what age groups are present during these tournaments? Primary level would be a good place to start looking and identifying talent that you can still mold and develop. The thing about clinics are that they are often one off. You pick up a few tips but still, you need a coach to guide and push you, hence the importance of academies. How do we fare when it comes to academies? Do we have enough? Are the coaches sufficiently qualified? Are development programmes at these academies adequate?
ayanami_tard
post Nov 29 2011, 07:02 PM

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if you play professionally,yes football would pay much better than bowling and basketball.

but would they take that chance?perhaps.perhaps not.to go pro even in malaysia level is hard. and only then it will pay handsomely

the academy-thingy is what people are crying loud about.the only true football academy here is SSBJ. only now some state FA take the academy proposal seriously(like kelantan's ARMY).it's hard to establish the academy though,and thats why team like Sabah FA established feeder club(Sabah FC) to find new players from all over the state.

with renewed interest in grassroot football in Malaysia,i hope we could find more player for our National team.14 players with "footballing brains"(like Mr Richard Scully said) is good start but still not enough
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Do you reckon that we're guilty of being a little too proud and perhaps we do require foreign expertise? I mean even England broke tradition and hired foreign managers to stem their decline in the form of Sven Goran Erickson and now Fabiola Capello. Japan and South Korea, both Asian giants we used to beat employ foreigmanger hers and coaches. What else did they do right that we didn't? We had in the past employed the likes of Josef Venglos and Claude Le Roy, both of whom went on to lead teams into the World Cup but it was reported neither really had full control over the selection of players and neither was kept on for very long. We seem to change managers like we change t-shirts but the problem lies not with the manager I feel. Foreign expertise has developed local champions in badminton, bowling, cycling, archery, shooting and swimming, so why not football? I've met a few people who are linked with overseas academies and they seem to have some solid ideas. What I've heard however is that FAM aren't exactly the most open-minded people hence why these academies and largely available only to private schools students whose parents can afford to pay for it. Why not adopt proven systems?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Nov 29 2011, 09:59 PM
ijamz
post Nov 29 2011, 09:29 PM

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Kalau x reti main bola, takkan nak salahkan kerajaan/FAM jugak kot...ape punya mentaliti...kalau kita mmg ada player yg hndal2 xda masalah sume ni...duit pon xde masalah..siap sponsor lg dtg...


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post Nov 29 2011, 09:54 PM

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i love to see The My team that travel all over the country to find talent , now they dont choose like this already ?
ayanami_tard
post Nov 30 2011, 10:52 AM

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^tu nk glamor je tu....

mmg ada bekas pemain myteam yg ok,tp keseluruhan konsep myteam mcm x berapa nk elok.

let the pro manage the young talent.mr shebby,if you really wanna help discover young talent,i suggest you to open your own academy.if not please stay in singapore
aressandro10
post Dec 1 2011, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 29 2011, 06:37 PM)
Not my theory actually I'm repeating what I was told by this bloke I mentioned. Like I said, he is trying to get his class "A" coaching license but was denied. He plays for a pretty good team and participates in local tournaments.
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well whosever theory it is, it’s quite blatantly absurd. Maybe we are misunderstood. if you catch him again try to ask some names as an example to add base and substantiality to his comments for us to understand better.

I really want it to be true though. to have a competitive and commercial college league like America, japan and Korea have. that way the colleges will bear the cost and responsibility of conducting structured football academies to prepare them for pro work life like what they are doing for other industry. this eases off the pressure on SSBJ a bit and also narrows the divide between academic and sports world.

Private IPT also need to be cooperate also. But I doubt they will as sports are not high on their profit accumulating agenda. We see a lot of gov IPT in the IPT league roster also only because the gov force and provide them the fund to participate.

I try to consult a private football academy coach about A license and below are his comment and I quote :

"thats normal (stigma of FAM unofficial requirement that for A must be an ex player)..every coaching course I went..there is someone will say these courses are made to help ex pro. it is not true..im not an ex pro..."

Asked whether he has already applied for his A license :

"nope..not yet...if im not mistaken in Malaysia we have no more than 50 A or Pro Licence coach....if someone know this correct me if im wrong..might be even less than 50...i assume it is difficult..passing rate in Malaysia is one of the toughest in the region...instructor are strict and quality is a must"

For the record he is holding AFC C License , FIFA Grassroot. 'A' license now under AFC and not FAM but FAM chooses the candidate. the only best way to know what their selection criteria are is to ask them directly. For what I know, 'A' License is a very exclusive club and even ex-pro legends like Radhi Mat Din and Hashim Mustapha only have B and perennial assistant coaches. it is that hard for former pros so non ex-pros probably need to make a really strong case to fight off the pre-competition due to the standard.

QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 29 2011, 06:48 PM)
I can't imagine why the Chinese would avoid football by choice. I mean it pays much better than bowling or basketball.

I think it's safe to say that there are ample local tournaments but the questions is, are there scouts present? Also what age groups are present during these tournaments? Primary level would be a good place to start looking and identifying talent that you can still mold and develop. The thing about clinics are that they are often one off. You pick up a few tips but still, you need a coach to guide and push you, hence the importance of academies. How do we fare when it comes to academies? Do we have enough? Are the coaches sufficiently qualified? Are development programmes at these academies adequate?
*
Try to chat with FLampard of this forum. He is a Chinese that is aspirant to be a pro player. Maybe we will understand better.

yeah. academies are the real deal. currently save the SSBJ guys, all the players we have in the league are on-the-job-self-trained work force. football academies are the universities for football players. like doctors, lawyers, and accountant, football also needs to do full term in their 'university' before they are qualified to be pro.

Problem for football academies is, they need a lot of upfront investment with a subjective and long term result, so not many would like to delve long term in it. Politicians especially only on 4 year term so anything they do must show result in that period. Football academy investment need at least 20 years to bear fruit provided they are done with the right way consistently. State FAs also financially survive on year to year basis. They don’t have the capital that can support them on long term planning. Overseas clubs have fans who buy season tickets and stay with the team through thick and thin. We don’t.

That’s why I think it’s the government responsibility to support grass root football development either through schools or universities. In Malaysia, they control the most precious entity in football grass root development. That “time of youth” in primary and secondary school.

QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 29 2011, 09:00 PM)
Do you reckon that we're guilty of being a little too proud and perhaps we do require foreign expertise? I mean even England broke tradition and hired foreign managers to stem their decline in the form of Sven Goran Erickson and now Fabiola Capello. Japan and South Korea, both Asian giants we used to beat employ foreigmanger hers and coaches. What else did they do right that we didn't? We had in the past employed the likes of Josef Venglos and Claude Le Roy, both of whom went on to lead teams into the World Cup but it was reported neither really had full control over the selection of players and neither was kept on for very long. We seem to change managers like we change t-shirts but the problem lies not with the manager I feel. Foreign expertise has developed local champions in badminton, bowling, cycling, archery, shooting and swimming, so why not football? I've met a few people who are linked with overseas academies and they seem to have some solid ideas. What I've heard however is that FAM aren't exactly the most open-minded people hence why these academies and largely available only to private schools students whose parents can afford to pay for it. Why not adopt proven systems?
*
But record shows that local coaches, Sathianathan, K. Rajagobal and Ong Kim Swee have been more successful than all our previous foreign coaches put together. So I don’t think nationality matters in this.

What all 3 coaches have in common advantage over foreign coaches is understanding and time with the players. All of them pick, choose and groom their players since the U-19 stage. So it’s just nice by the time become national team head coach, “their players” has already matured and can be used. Foreign coaches do not have this advantage.

But I sense that our coaches don’t have good enough training and experience in grass root level. So if foreign coaches can help there and there are people supporting that cost, then why not…

tenno
post Dec 1 2011, 02:43 PM

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Player Malaysia malas. Bukan pemain bola saja, badminton, olahraga, takraw, suma pemalas. Selalu ingat kita dh terer. Takyah training teruk2. Dah terer. Dh champion Sea Games, Sukma. Sbb tu bila saja kita bawak coach dari luar, walau seterer mana pun coach tu (Claude LeRoy, Park Joo Bong, Morten Frost), abis suma lari balik sbb tak tahan attitude player Malaysia. Yg peliknya, bila coach2 tu pegi train team lain, sampai ke World Cup (Claude Leroy, Cameroon), ade yg jadi world champion (badminton). Tgk Park Joo Bong dok Jepun, dpt hasilkan players mcm Sho Sasaki, Kenichi Tago ... smpi kita nk kalahkan Jepun masa Thomas cup pun nyaris2 je. Dok Malaysia ? Haram...

Experience first hand aku dlm soal ni. Team cycling Selangor ke Sukma 96. Coach nye org Rusia (ex coach team Sukom 98). Bila coach suruh kayuh jauh skit, teruk skit, ngadu kat manager. Manager pun satu bingai, g marah coach. Kalu dh ckp coach kita xmo dengar, xyah ade coach la. Training je sendrik.

Kalu kita tgk players world class yg kita ade skrg, attitude suma cukup bagus. Lee Chong Wei, Nicol David, Azizulhasni. Suma tu atlit2 yg mmg coach idam2kan la. Sentiasa ikut arahan, planning coach. Positif attitude. Siap buleh mintak training lebih lg dari coach. Tp malangnya players mcm tu x ramai. Patutnya kita kna buat tapisan attitude seblom buleh terima players utk masuk team. Kalu skill bagus mcm gila pun, attitude x betol, tak jadi gak. Contoh : Maradona.

This post has been edited by tenno: Dec 1 2011, 02:44 PM
hj.pet
post Dec 1 2011, 07:50 PM

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Imo, teams dat competing in the league now are lacking the marketing skills, thus limiting the option and funds of the team. FAM keep subsidising the sponsorship money among the fas and clubs where they should go out and find the financial backing by themselves, not by receiving subsidy. Besides that, I don't see a big effort in contributing to the society done from these fas n clubs; these kinda efforts are supposed to be important for the society to feel related n part of the team. Thus increasing the fanbase.

Football in Malaysia should be treated as a business, just like other professional career like engineers, doctors, etc. Every type of business need a very strong marketing skills, financial backup, etc. As long as it is treated like now (government like association) we won't have a better football scene.
Duke Red
post Dec 2 2011, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 1 2011, 01:36 PM)
I try to consult a private football academy coach about A license and below are his comment and I quote :

"thats normal (stigma of FAM unofficial requirement that for A must be an ex player)..every coaching course I went..there is someone will say these courses are made to help ex pro. it is not true..im not an ex pro..."

Asked whether he has already applied for his A license :

"nope..not yet...if im not mistaken in Malaysia we have no more than 50 A or Pro Licence coach....if someone know this correct me if im wrong..might be even less than 50...i assume it is difficult..passing rate in Malaysia is one of the toughest in the region...instructor are strict and quality is a must"

For the record he is holding AFC C License , FIFA Grassroot. 'A' license now under AFC and not FAM but FAM chooses the candidate. the only best way to know what their selection criteria are is to ask them directly. For what I know, 'A' License is a very exclusive club and even ex-pro legends like Radhi Mat Din and Hashim Mustapha only have B and perennial assistant coaches. it is that hard for former pros so non ex-pros probably need to make a really strong case to fight off the pre-competition due to the standard.


If I may ask, what makes this blokes comments more credible than the bloke I spoke with who has a B license since he doesn't have an A license either? FairPlay, he does have a C license but from what I'm reading, it seems like an opinion unless these rules are actually written in stone somewhere. Can't seem to find anything conclusive online.

Do you reckon we have many quality coaches in the country? I mean if it is so hard to get an A license, one must assume that our coaches are top notch and if they are, who are they coaching? Without academies, what opportunities do they have to actually coach? With the exception of Lim Teong Kim who had to work for his coaching badge in Germany, how many coaches from our country are sought after, even by football nobodies like Macau?

What concerns me about your last paragraph is that you say the FAM "chooses" the candidates. Any idea what the crtierias for selection are?

QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 1 2011, 01:36 PM)
But record shows that local coaches, Sathianathan, K. Rajagobal and Ong Kim Swee have been more successful than all our previous foreign coaches put together. So I don’t think nationality matters in this.

What all 3 coaches have in common advantage over foreign coaches is understanding and time with the players. All of them pick, choose and groom their players since the U-19 stage. So it’s just nice by the time become national team head coach, “their players” has already matured and can be used. Foreign coaches do not have this advantage.

But I sense that our coaches don’t have good enough training and experience in grass root level. So if foreign coaches can help there and there are people supporting that cost, then why not…
*
Depends on how you define success. When Claude Le Roy was in charge for example, we achieved our highest world ranking ever at 75. No denying we've won the SEA Games and Suzuki Cup but it's obvious that the gap between SEA and the rest of Asia is huge.

You are right, nationality doesn't matter, expertise, exposure and experience does. Familiarizing oneself with local players is a matter of time. The problem is results are expected to be instant and foreign coaches didn't stay long. If you look at SEA countries ranked higher than us, they have benefitted from foreign expertise. Thailand employed Bryan Robson, Indonesia have had foreign managers as they helm since 2000, Vietnam (who was at war during the time we were Asian giants) have had more foreign managers than local ones and look how fast they have progressed. Coincidence? Again, I'm not saying foreign managers are necessarily better but given that football in our region is less developed that the rest of Asia, maybe there is a case.

If anything I think we shot ourselves in the foot by insisting to go all local which is fine provided you have the quality to do so. Why were we ranked higher when our league was semi pro? Maybe it's because we benefitted from having coaches from more developed footballing nations and model professionals to learn from. I mean Thai players can surely benefit from playing alongside someone like Robbie Fowler. It isn't limited to merely technique and ability of the pitch but also what happens off it e.g. Proper diets, workout routines, etc. When Tony Cottee played for Selangor, he complained that he had to wash his own booths because there wasnt a proper structure and there was no apprenticeship where young players had to do all the dirty work until they earned a place in the first team. I think the problem lies in our mental strength. One poster pointed out that Malaysian sportsmen are lazy and he may have a case. Rexy Mainaky once said that our players would complain each time he worked them hard. By making our football apprentices clean boots all the time, maybe we'd break them mentally. Let's face it. We don't take criticism well and by and large, we don't have the mental strength to work through adversity because it's simply easier not to.

Before I stray I need to reiterate that I feel we will benefit from foreign expertise but the FAM needs to let go and place complete faith in whoever is appointed and give him a free reign to revamp whatever he deems necessary.


Added on December 2, 2011, 10:14 amHere's what Lim Teong Kim had to say about Malaysian football.

QUOTE
This a well written interview by Ajitpal Singh of New Straits Times with our former star, Lim Teong Kim who is now the Assistant Coach for the Bayern Munich U-19 squad.

His views are honest and straight to the point and coming from a club with Bayern Munich's stature, it is best we pay heed to his views. I am not going to say anymore but re-produce the interview courtesy of New Straits Times Sports Desk. Of course, let us hope that the "powers-that-be" read, understand and take the proper action rather than follow the 'consultants' advice which hovers around them - always claiming to have the best solutions for what ills Malaysian sports when until today, we are still in the backwaters of international sport save for badminton, squash and bowling.

Here is the interview:

Lim Teong Kim was the first Malaysian footballer to play in Europe when he turned out for German club Hertha Berlin in 1987. A member of the national team that won the 1989 Sea Games gold medal, the Germany-based Teong Kim is on holiday in Malaysia. The 47-year-old shares his thoughts about Malaysian football with Timesports’ AJITPAL SINGH.
Q: What is your opinion on Sports Minister Datuk Ahmad Shabery Cheek's move on forming a full-time national team?
A: It is not practical if you talk about the technicality of the game. It is pointless to spread the players out to different clubs in Europe as their playing styles will differ when they play as a unit. It will be a huge barrier for the coach and players. Each European country have their own brand of football. The government should not spend millions on this. It is a waste of taxpayers' money. There are other means to develop local football but not like this.

Q: What do you recommend?
A: The national team players should remain in the Malaysian League. I suggest they go on playing tours in Europe three or four times a year. However, they must play with top teams and clubs to learn. Never mind if the team lose 5-0 or 10-0. They should not lose hope if they lose big at the start.
Teong Kim will consider a job here when there are proper facilities. It is a long-term process but it will definitely help in the progress of the team. However, European teams may not be able to accommodate the national team due to their busy international and club-level schedules.

Q: Your opinion on the National Under-23 team's gold medal success in the recent Laos Sea Games?
A: I am not surprised with their achievement as there are often surprises in football. I must congratulate the players and coach K. Rajagobal for their effort. But how do they take their football from here? Proper planning must be made to ensure the team make progress.

Q: Do any of the local players have the ability to make it in Europe?
A: I am not sure of the present team's ability. But the FA of Malaysia (FAM), instead of making big plans, should ask the players whether they want to ply their trade in Europe.The national body and those concerned should not make the decision for the players.In the past, Akmal Rizal and Rudie Ramli had short stints with Bayern Munich at different periods. They stayed and slept in my house in Munich but I noticed that they were getting bored after just three weeks. The duo wanted to go home. A player must have the heart for it or they will fail. However, if a player has the ability, then he should try his luck in Europe.

Q: Is it easy for a footballer to be successful in Europe?
A: It is not easy. When I went there in the late-1980s, I faced many challenges including the language barrier, weather, food, and competition from 'your future' teammates. These factors may affect the player mentally and his confidence level will suffer. The European leagues are very challenging and a person on trial with a club normally gets the cold shoulder from other players. You have no friends in the club as your teammates are thinking about their own importance in the team. They feel you are a threat to them. It was like that when I attended trials with Hertha Berlin, a Division Three Bundesliga team then, in 1987.

Q: Your overall assessment of the infrastructure in Malaysia?
A: How can people talk about football, where there is no proper infrastructure. The current infrastructure is 30 years behind time. Malaysian football will not develop unless the infrastructure here improves. What we have and what I have seen here is not good enough. Maybe it was good enough 20 or 30 years ago but not at the present time.In Bayern Munich, for example, there are seven fields and other facilities are also top class. We have 11 youth teams in age-groups between eight and 23, with more than 100 players. The club allocates E2 million (RM9.7 million) annually for its youths teams. The system is almost the same with other clubs in Europe.We don't have that in Malaysia. Instead, the government and local councils are taking away football fields. I used to play football in my youth days in Bandar Hilir, Malacca. It had three fields but now malls have been built on them. What do we get by building malls? Does it help in the development of a sports culture in Malaysia? We need proper infrastructure in Malaysia. Taxpayers' money, which the government wants to use to send the national team to Europe, should be allocated to building facilities for football. If you want kids to play football then you have to invest in it.

Q: Who should be responsible for developing youth football in Malaysia?
A: The states should play a bigger role in developing youth football. They should do the work and run the programmes but infrastructure must be there first. Sports schools like Bukit Jalil and Bandar Penawar should be supplementary ingredients in this case.

Q: What do you think of the Malaysian League?
A: It is ridiculous not to have foreign players in the league. It does not help in the development of local players. How are Malaysian teams going to compete against bigger Asian clubs in the Champions League and AFC Cup? A Malaysian team cannot rely on local players against clubs with foreign players. It is a huge loss in revenue as they are not good enough to compete against the best in Asian.Why did FAM decide on barring imports from the league? Is it because some teams could not afford foreign players? The association should allow those who can afford to hire them. One cannot look at all teams in the league as equal. Teams, who do not have money for development and foreign players, should be left out. It should be left to the respective clubs on whether to hire foreign players. This is professional football. You cannot tell Bayern Munich not to have foreign players as they need their services in the domestic league and Champions Leagues. The revenue of the club depends on Bayern's first team's performance in the Bundesliga and Champions League and if they don't do well, the club cannot generate income.

Q: Several club-based teams withdrew from the Malaysian League in the past few years. What are your comments?
A: I believe they were there for personal gains. Teams, owned by private and government entities, just wanted to promote and sell their products. It was more of a publicity venture. In the end, who gains? Not Malaysian football, but the ones who sponsored these teams.

Q: Should local football rely on foreign coaches?
A: Yes, because foreign coaches have comprehensive knowledge about the game. I am not saying that local coaches are no good but we need foreign help to take our football to another level. If our ambition is to develop good players, then we have to hire good coaches. For instance, Japan are now Asian giants because they hired top-notched foreign coaches to develop their game at the start.

Q: Will you consider a coaching job in Malaysia?
A: I have been linked before with FAM and state teams but it was only speculation. I will consider working in Malaysia but first several conditions of mine must be accepted. What I want is infrastructure. I will consider a job here when there are proper facilities. The government should start by developing proper infrastructure for a few state teams before developing the rest. It is a slow process but the nation will gain in the long term.

Q: Are you still with the Bayern Munich youth team?
A: Yes I am. I am attached to the Under-19 team as assistant coach. It is my third season now. I have been with the club since 2000 and then I was the coach of the Under-12 team before moving up the ranks. I have worked with two players, when I was coaching the Under-13 and Under-14 teams before, who are now in the Bayern Munich senior side. They are striker Thomas Muller and centreback Bad Badstuber. The duo were not as gifted as some of their teammates in the youth teams but they made it big because of their dedication to training and matches. Muller could be representing Germany in the World Cup.

Q: Coaching a Bundesliga team is a dream for many people. Do you think you can do it?
A: Why not? It is my ambition to coach a team in Germany. I will definitely take up the challenge if given the opportunity.

Q: Are your children following in your footsteps as a footballer?
A: My son, who is now 16, was in the Under-12 Bayern Munich team but he now represents his school. As for my two daughters, the older one is into rock climbing while the other is involved in athletics.



Added on December 2, 2011, 10:21 amNote his comments on mental strength, investment in a youth set up and foreign expertise. We've read opinions from friends and friends of friends but I feel Lim Teong Kim is a credible source given his exposure in one of the world's top leagues and youth set ups.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 2 2011, 10:22 AM
hj.pet
post Dec 2 2011, 11:32 AM

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Totally agree with this. We should have a better infrastructure for football in Malaysia. Instead, government seems to abandon its important for the society. Money have been spent for building construction and all the sport facilities have been taken away from the people. One of the poster here already mentioned about the obesity rate in Malaysia which is quite high and the fact alone shows the mentality of Malaysian. The government should start to balance the economy and sport growth in Malaysia and start to build a better society that put an importance in sport.

But who should play the role in this? Should the FAM alone been responsible for this? For me, government should spend a big amount of money and start to promote sports among the society more seriously.
Duke Red
post Dec 2 2011, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(hj.pet @ Dec 2 2011, 11:32 AM)
Totally agree with this. We should have a better infrastructure for football in Malaysia. Instead, government seems to abandon its important for the society. Money have been spent for building construction and all the sport facilities have been taken away from the people. One of the poster here already mentioned about the obesity rate in Malaysia which is quite high and the fact alone shows the mentality of Malaysian. The government should start to balance the economy and sport growth in Malaysia and start to build a better society that put an importance in sport.

But who should play the role in this? Should the FAM alone been responsible for this? For me, government should spend a big amount of money and start to promote sports among the society more seriously.
*

I agree. The responsibility should not fall squarely upon FAM alone. The government has a huge role to play but with stories of how funds are being misappropriated every day, whether it be on subs that can't submerge, overpriced military equipment or other white elephant projects, the problem may not be the lack of funding but rather, mismanagement of it. Some years back we heard of the proposed sports centre in England costing some what? 70 million ringgit? This was said to prepare our athletes for the Olympics and to get them acclimatized to foreign weather. What they failed to note of course was that the Olympics are held in the summer. Another example of speaking before thinking. Anyway I'm in the midst of finding articles on the issue of mismanaging funds when it comes to our football. If you have any references please provide links so we can further discuss this issue. I'll try to dig a couple up.
fumi
post Dec 2 2011, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(tenno @ Dec 1 2011, 02:43 PM)
Player Malaysia malas. Bukan pemain bola saja, badminton, olahraga, takraw, suma pemalas. Selalu ingat kita dh terer. Takyah training teruk2. Dah terer. Dh champion Sea Games, Sukma. Sbb tu bila saja kita bawak coach dari luar, walau seterer mana pun coach tu (Claude LeRoy, Park Joo Bong, Morten Frost), abis suma lari balik sbb tak tahan attitude player Malaysia. Yg peliknya, bila coach2 tu pegi train team lain, sampai ke World Cup (Claude Leroy, Cameroon), ade yg jadi world champion (badminton). Tgk Park Joo Bong dok Jepun, dpt hasilkan players mcm Sho Sasaki, Kenichi Tago ... smpi kita nk kalahkan Jepun masa Thomas cup pun nyaris2 je. Dok Malaysia ? Haram...

Experience first hand aku dlm soal ni. Team cycling Selangor ke Sukma 96. Coach nye org Rusia (ex coach team Sukom 98). Bila coach suruh kayuh jauh skit, teruk skit, ngadu kat manager. Manager pun satu bingai, g marah coach. Kalu dh ckp coach kita xmo dengar, xyah ade coach la. Training je sendrik.

Kalu kita tgk players world class yg kita ade skrg, attitude suma cukup bagus. Lee Chong Wei, Nicol David, Azizulhasni. Suma tu atlit2 yg mmg coach idam2kan la. Sentiasa ikut arahan, planning coach. Positif attitude. Siap buleh mintak training lebih lg dari coach. Tp malangnya players mcm tu x ramai. Patutnya kita kna buat tapisan attitude seblom buleh terima players utk masuk team. Kalu skill bagus mcm gila pun, attitude x betol, tak jadi gak. Contoh : Maradona.
*
My GF attended company team building. One of the speaker as well as a well known motivator, dunno Datuk what d....he said last time LCW, Malaysia Football won becos they hired him.

Imma like hmm.gif got or not....
Therapy88
post Dec 2 2011, 01:09 PM

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sorry all nak mencelah sikit..aku ni kerja cikgu di perak dan sejak hampir sepuluh tahun latih pasukan bolasepak sekolah dan juga sponsor school leaver utk main tournament..ramai yg talented tapi bila bawa ke selection states sentiasa kena reject walaupun amat berbakat..alasan yg diberikan ialah - daerah dan tempat you jauh sangat, kami tak larat la nak tanggung makan minum dan penginapan..so they select ramai players dari ipoh n berdekatan sahaja..itu sbb kalau kita tgk ramai pemain muda perak bermain di penang dan kedah..sana tiada sikap mcm ni...
- cuma memberi sedikit info berdasarkan pengalaman -
Duke Red
post Dec 2 2011, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(fumi @ Dec 2 2011, 12:56 PM)
My GF attended company team building. One of the speaker as well as a well known motivator, dunno Datuk what d....he said last time LCW, Malaysia Football won becos they hired him.

Imma like  hmm.gif got or not....
*
The whole badminton team attends motivational talks I think. I remember them attending a session by Datuk Lawrence Chan, founder of PDL (Personal Development and Leadership). These courses are important as far as I'm concerned because mental toughness isn't something all our athletes or in this case, footballers have. Look how we collapsed against Bahrain after conceding. If anyone here has attended or read motivational material from speakers like Anthony Robbins, you'd note that it can make a huge difference in how you react to adverse situations, like going behind in a game or being down 20-10 in badminton. Not everyone can self motivate and we need to seek sources of inspiration just like how Liverpool were inspired by the fans to come from behind in Istanbul.

Attend a course by a good speaker and let me know if it made a difference? In my case, I gained a lot of confidence, something which our players look to lack sometimes.
aressandro10
post Dec 2 2011, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 2 2011, 09:54 AM)
If I may ask, what makes this blokes comments more credible than the bloke I spoke with who has a B license since he doesn't have an A license either? FairPlay, he does have a C license but from what I'm reading, it seems like an opinion unless these rules are actually written in stone somewhere. Can't seem to find anything conclusive online.

Do you reckon we have many quality coaches in the country? I mean if it is so hard to get an A license, one must assume that our coaches are top notch and if they are, who are they coaching? Without academies, what opportunities do they have to actually coach? With the exception of Lim Teong Kim who had to work for his coaching badge in Germany, how many coaches from our country are sought after, even by football nobodies like Macau?

What concerns me about your last paragraph is that you say the FAM "chooses" the candidates. Any idea what the crtierias for selection are?
Depends on how you define success. When Claude Le Roy was in charge for example, we achieved our highest world ranking ever at 75. No denying we've won the SEA Games and Suzuki Cup but it's obvious that the gap between SEA and the rest of Asia is huge.

You are right, nationality doesn't matter, expertise, exposure and experience does. Familiarizing oneself with local players is a matter of time. The problem is results are expected to be instant and foreign coaches didn't stay long. If you look at SEA countries ranked higher than us, they have benefitted from foreign expertise. Thailand employed Bryan Robson, Indonesia have had foreign managers as they helm since 2000, Vietnam (who was at war during the time we were Asian giants) have had more foreign managers than local ones and look how fast they have progressed. Coincidence? Again, I'm not saying foreign managers are necessarily better but given that football in our region is less developed that the rest of Asia, maybe there is a case.

If anything I think we shot ourselves in the foot by insisting to go all local which is fine provided you have the quality to do so. Why were we ranked higher when our league was semi pro? Maybe it's because we benefitted from having coaches from more developed footballing nations and model professionals to learn from. I mean Thai players can surely benefit from playing alongside someone like Robbie Fowler. It isn't limited to merely technique and ability of the pitch but also what happens off it e.g. Proper diets, workout routines, etc. When Tony Cottee played for Selangor, he complained that he had to wash his own booths because there wasnt a proper structure and there was no apprenticeship where young players had to do all the dirty work until they earned a place in the first team. I think the problem lies in our mental strength. One poster pointed out that Malaysian sportsmen are lazy and he may have a case. Rexy Mainaky once said that our players would complain each time he worked them hard. By making our football apprentices clean boots all the time, maybe we'd break them mentally. Let's face it. We don't take criticism well and by and large, we don't have the mental strength to work through adversity because it's simply easier not to.

Before I stray I need to reiterate that I feel we will benefit from foreign expertise but the FAM needs to let go and place complete faith in whoever is appointed and give him a free reign to revamp whatever he deems necessary.


Added on December 2, 2011, 10:14 amHere's what Lim Teong Kim had to say about Malaysian football.

Added on December 2, 2011, 10:21 amNote his comments on mental strength, investment in a youth set up and foreign expertise. We've read opinions from friends and friends of friends but I feel Lim Teong Kim is a credible source given his exposure in one of the world's top leagues and youth set ups.
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1. I never say that bloke is more credible than your bloke. I just give other point of view so that other people reading this don’t necessarily judge your bloke only as correct. Judging by his comment that national team players are scouted from IPT League, I do have same doubts on his credibility. But that is only my opinion.

2. ‘A’ Licenses is a ticket meant to coach professional football clubs. For academies we can get by with ‘C’ License. How many good coaches? Personally for me maybe not less than 10. Rajagobal, Sathianathan, Irfan Bakti, K. Devan, Wan Jamak, Abdul Rahman Ibrahim, M. Karathu, Norizan Bakar and Ong Kim Swee to name a few. But coaching licenses are only meant to make sure you past a certain standard. Like SPM. It does not correctly predict how good they will actually be in real world. Some of them do receive offers from overseas and some really did have stint outside. But there are other issues that affect decisions to go abroad than just how good they are. The same reason why we don’t offer good coaches from Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia to work here.

3. As I mentioned before, the licensing are done by AFC. So as a representative, here in Malaysia, everything has to go through FAM. And to keep the standard, it’s understandable that FAM don’t just accept all application. There must be selection criteria. Instead of just speculating what the criteria might be in here, FAM is just a phone call away if you really want to find out.


4. FIFA World Ranking started in ’93 with Malaysia already at #75 so I don’t think Claude Le Roy alone deserves all the credit there for our highest ever achievement at #75. It’s not that we don’t hire foreign coaches. From the height of ’93 to our bottom abyss of #170 in 2008, we had 3 foreign coaches and do they stop the rot? No. Only after Sathianatan took over did we check the slide and improve our ranking which later proceed by Rajagobal. If all foreign coaches are so good, and the standard of SEA Games and AFF Cup are so poor, then why I don’t seen them winning it with one eye closed? As good as Bryan Robson, Vietnam’s foreign coach and Indonesia’s foreign coach is, they are still beatable to our ‘low standard local coach’ Rajagobal. And I don’t see their team made thaaatt good of a mark at Asia or world level either.

5. Trying to take Asean country to upper echelon of Asian football is no easy task and way harder than taking Middlesborough and Sunderland to mid table in EPL as Peter Reid and Bryan Robson know by now. I even think Sir Alex Ferguson and Kenny Daglish themselves will not succeed if they come here and expect the world around them to change according to their wimps and act and expect as if they are in England. I have more respect to foreign coaches like Alfred Riedl, Peter Withe, Henrique Callisto, Ken Worden, Karl Heiz Weigang, Robert Alberts and Radojko Avramovic who spend time in the region and understand the locals. It’s no surprise they succeed.

6. All coach, local or foreign, will not have the luxury of time to deliver. Rajagobal would not be here by now if Fakri Saarani did not score the injury time winning goal in that do or die match against Thailand back in 2009 SEA Games group stage. Ong Kim Swee already fearing for his future after knowing the grouping draw. That is normal. What advantage he and Rajagobal have over foreign coaches is head start in “knowing” the playing before they hold the job. And not during or after wards.

7. Since he was well trained in washing boots as an apprentice, why Tony Cottee throw a tantrum about washing boots. Some mental strength that. Over here, even primadonas have to wash their own boot. That’s how we do here. Deal with it.

8. We ranked higher when our league was semi pro because at that time overall interest in league and funding was much higher, and we don’t have to complete for fans with higher profile league like EPL at that time. Let’s face it. We are a nation of glory hunters who only support a team for selfish reason instead of for the good of community. And also because of the match fixing scandal. Not because of foreign coaches.

9. Since you are not saying foreign managers are necessarily better, and Rajagobal and Ong Kim Swee has proved that appointing them is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot, I think its better we stick with them for now until the circumstances arrive where we need to find a better candidate, be it local or foreign.

10. I agree on Teong Kim’s comment about infrastructure. Just because our country is wealthy and peaceful, most people assume our football infrastructure as good as Korea and Japan. Far from it. I define infrastructure as tools that help general public with time, space and guidance to play football. That’s why people in the slumps of Brazil can become a better footballer than people in rich neighborhood of Switzerland. With our kid’s evening s being used for tuition, fields being sacrificed for condominiums and no good teachers to teach football, our infrastructure are dead sucks and comparable to Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar and Cambodia. So we better get our ego in check.

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Dec 2 2011, 05:16 PM
Duke Red
post Dec 2 2011, 06:35 PM

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2. What other issues do you reckon there are? No I'm not going to call up Wan Jamak Hassan or anyone to ask because that would mean none of us should ask one another any questions if we can ring up the source directly. Do you have any examples of Malaysian football coaches who have gone overseas? I'm not doubting you, I just never heard of any other than Lim Teong Kim so do enlighten the ill informed.

3. Addressed in point 2.

4. Well Claude Le Roy did take Cameroon to the World Cup for the first ever time so he probably did contribute somewhat. You don't feel there is any value foreign coaches can add? Something they know or can do that ours don't? I reckon coaches/managers or whatever you want to call them, having had first hand experience at clubs or at least working in countries with developed leagues can add value, provided they are given full control. Like I said earlier, coaches from different continents introduce different styles of play on the pitch and just as Tiger Woods had to reinvent his stroke, maybe we need to reinvent our football to compete with the rest of Asia? It's great that we defended our SEA Games medal but one must ask, where do we go from here? I think fans will be expecting us to win it for the third time now or at least make it to the finals.

I don't think coaches for the U-23 side i.e. SEA Games teams are the same as for the senior side are they? I mean we have Rajagopal and Ong Kim Swee respectively. Anyway, fair play that our Young Tigers are doing better than their SEA counterparts but do our local coaches have what it takes to take the team to the next level? Maybe, time will tell. By the way, that jibe about Rajagopal being a low class local manager, I didn't say he was. I said that foreign coaches from more developed leagues could add value and bring with them experience that our coaches do not have. In this point, I agree with Lim Teong Kim's assessment given his exposure in one of the biggest clubs in the world. He must have learned a lot, things he couldn't have learned here.

QUOTE
Q: Should local football rely on foreign coaches?
A: Yes, because foreign coaches have comprehensive knowledge about the game. I am not saying that local coaches are no good but we need foreign help to take our football to another level. If our ambition is to develop good players, then we have to hire good coaches. For instance, Japan are now Asian giants because they hired top-notched foreign coaches to develop their game at the start.


He doesn't go into detail and elaborate on what is needed to take our football to the next level but he clearly feels we can expedite the process by getting help.

5. Here's where I feel we have a difference in mentality which explains why we don't see eye to eye very often. If someone the stature of Ferguson does take charge of our football, I as the FA would bend over to give him what he wants? Why? Because he's been there and done that. If Bill Gates were to walk into my house tomorrow and started ordering me about to make me into a successful entrepreneur, I'd listen instead of telling him that I'm the boss of my house and he can do what he does so long as I like it.

Of course I don't think that EVERY foreign coach is better than our local coaches but if we truly desire to hasten the process of improving our football from the grassroots level, we can invest in a proven coach. One of those you've mentioned perhaps. Was Worden a success for the national team though? I know he was pretty successful with Selangor.

6. It's a big problem then isn't it? How is someone supposed to revive our football if they don't have the benefit of time? We're not taking about sustaining success here. I mean if the FA or whoever accepts the fact that our facilities are not up to mark and we have no academies to speak off, then is it fair to fire coaches in say a year? I don't think it's an easy task to develop young players here which is why they're being taken overseas to countries like Slovakia for stints. In fact, I think it's darn challenging to be a coach in this country and I do respect Rajagopal and Ong Kim Swee for doing what they've done but unless our fundamental problems are addressed, it's only a matter of time before they lose their jobs. This is why I refer to foreign expertise. Maybe not a coach but someone who can revamp football as we know it. The challenge is of course that we need to first accept that we may need help in this matter.

7. Here's where we are looking at this from different angles again. The whole point of having a hierarchy is so young players have to work their way up. It's to teach them discipline and to give them goals to achieve. If everyone starts off being treated equal, then what other reason is there to work so hard other than to get playing time? In the army, fresh recruits get hazed. It's to instill order and discipline. It's to improve mental toughness. If you are a young apprentice at a club, you need to work yourself from the bottom up just like in life, just like at work. It should drive you to want to work harder to improve yourself, not force you to sulk in a corner. To do which depends on how mentally strong you are. It's like Lim Teong Kim said, you need to find players who want to play, who want to improve, who are willing to make sacrifices to take their game to the next level. In my opinion, tough love is effective in this aspect. I don't know your point of view but when I'm at work, I look at the levels above me and I ask what I need to do to climb? I think it's the same with football clubs. There should be a hierarchy and player should want to work harder to work themselves up the ladder and the reward is better status. Applies to all facets of life.

8. Empty stadiums are not the cause of decline in our football, they are a result of it. Shoving bus loads of fans into stadiums isn't going to address the issue of infrastructure. I mean Indonesian clubs have a healthier attendance than most but like you say, they even lost to us in the recent SEA games, twice.

9. Agreed. If there is consistency in our results and gradual improvement, why fix a wheel that isn't broken. If results stagnate however, then it's not enough remain just kings of SEA.

10. I don't know anyone who thinks our football infrastructure is as good as Japan or South Korea. A balance between education and football can be struck through academies, something I think everyone agrees we need more off. Players get an education and they get to kick a ball about but it does require sacrifice and commitment because you won't have much time for anything else like a normal childhood. Even if you don't make it as a player after graduating from an academy, there are other aspect of football to look into. First and foremost however, we need to build these academies and like universities, ensure they carry some weight around the region at least. The problem isn't in parents who convince their kids that there is no future in football, but rather in those tasked with improving the state of our football to convince parents there is a future. The construction of reputable academies will help and if we are to believe what was said last year, it may not be too far in the distant future (http://www.mmail.com.my/content/42130-ministry-set-football-academy-train-young-players).

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 3 2011, 08:27 AM
hj.pet
post Dec 3 2011, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(Therapy88 @ Dec 2 2011, 01:09 PM)
sorry all nak mencelah sikit..aku ni kerja cikgu di perak dan sejak hampir sepuluh tahun latih pasukan bolasepak sekolah dan juga sponsor school leaver utk main tournament..ramai yg talented tapi bila bawa ke selection states sentiasa kena reject walaupun amat berbakat..alasan yg diberikan ialah - daerah dan tempat you jauh sangat, kami tak larat la nak tanggung makan minum dan penginapan..so they select ramai players dari ipoh n berdekatan sahaja..itu sbb kalau kita tgk ramai pemain muda perak bermain di penang dan kedah..sana tiada sikap mcm ni...
- cuma memberi sedikit info berdasarkan pengalaman -
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Well, bagi aku that's the mentality of Malaysian, at least most of us. Suka sgt cari jalan mudah. The responsible should lies to the selection officer of the Perak state team, tapi apa yag dia buat? Just pick up the guys yg dekat so that they won't spend money for accomodation, etc. Cuba imagine kalau the team is managed professionally, I don't think that they won't let the talented boy just slip away from their grasp. In europe, football clubs berlumba2 nak tarik talented youth player join team derang n spend millions for youth development, tapi kat sini? Sebab xnak spend duit utk the talented player, derang prefer to pilih players yg dekat, xyah susah2 nk spend duit.
nanamiwashio
post Dec 3 2011, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(hj.pet @ Dec 3 2011, 01:40 PM)
Well, bagi aku that's the mentality of Malaysian, at least most of us. Suka sgt cari jalan mudah. The responsible should lies to the selection officer of the Perak state team, tapi apa yag dia buat? Just pick up the guys yg dekat so that they won't spend money for accomodation, etc. Cuba imagine kalau the team is managed professionally, I don't think that they won't let the talented boy just slip away from their grasp. In europe, football clubs berlumba2 nak tarik talented youth player join team derang n spend millions for youth development, tapi kat sini? Sebab xnak spend duit utk the talented player, derang prefer to pilih players yg dekat, xyah susah2 nk spend duit.
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and that's why OKS complaint on BH " sistem pelik " where the FAM through SSBJ/ Harimau Muda supplying the players to the state teams or clubs
ayanami_tard
post Dec 5 2011, 12:16 AM

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^and then naik melatah after mr Ong Kim Swee tegur

bak kata pepatah,sapa makan cili,dia terasa pedas....i get sick of the trend too...the players are being rotated among state/club team.tahun ni main kt kelantan...tahun depan main kt n9...tahun pastu main kt ganu....

at least show some kind of improvement liao.
hj.pet
post Dec 5 2011, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(ayanami_tard @ Dec 5 2011, 12:16 AM)
^and then naik melatah after mr Ong Kim Swee tegur

bak kata pepatah,sapa makan cili,dia terasa pedas....i get sick of the trend too...the players are being rotated among state/club team.tahun ni main kt kelantan...tahun depan main kt n9...tahun pastu main kt ganu....

at least show some kind of improvement liao.
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Owh ada yg melatah ke? Mmg xleh harap state fas ni. Selama ni kita dok bising pasal FAM, tapi kita jarang berbicara pasal kebangangan state fas secara serious. Dealing ngan state fas ni dh mcm dealing dgn perkhidmatan awam yg mengambil masa yg lama utk menguruskan benda yg remeh temeh.
aressandro10
post Dec 10 2011, 04:09 PM

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A 4 year old article that truly represents my opinions why our football is so bad...


July 16, 2007
Malaysian Football in a (Coco)Nutshell


Alas, it is that time of the year in the Malaysian Sports Calender where everybody inevitably points fingers, assigning the blame to someone, each one more adamant than the other that somebody else is to blame for the latest fiasco. I am of course, talking about Malaysia's latest outing in the international footballing arena. In our first game against China, we got smacked 5-1, while in the second game, we got whipped 5-0. Even the most optimistic of us can't pray for anything else other than a 2-0 defeat to Iran.

Yes, it has been that bad.

And so, true to the wise words of Homer Simpson (Why blame yourself when it is easier to blame others?) everybody has started pointing fingers even before the tournament had ended. Heck, the blame game started even before the players finished their post-game shower after the first game.

The coach has blamed some players for under-performing. The FAM have blamed the coach for wrong team selection, and the Malaysian football fans (this is a term I shall use very loosely for reasons which I shall elaborate further) have been blaming everybody. The only party involved who hasn't blamed anybody are the players, but that is because they are at the bottom of the food chain, and hence do not have anybody to pass the buck to.

But the sad fact is that EVERYBODY involved has to take some amount of blame. And by 'everybody' I mean the Malaysian football fans as well. Contrary to what we would like to believe, we are the ones sitting on top of the food chain - not FAM, not Sultan Ahmad Shah.

And so let us start from the very bottom.

It is very easy to blame the players. After all, they are the ones who actually determine whether we get a result or not. They are the ones performing, they are the ones who are the professional athletes. But is it fair? If we were Italians or Brazilians, we have the right to blame the players. But we aren't. Our world ranking of 149 is testament enough that we simply are not good enough. Iran is ranked 47, Uzbekistan 58, and China 76. Anybody who expected any other result would either be an eternal optimist, or an extremely deluded soul.

What can they do if they simply aren't good enough? What can they do if they simply aren't big enough or fast enough? When we look at other national sports, we can easily point fingers at the badminton players for lacking the fighting spirit (Hafiz) or being too cocky (Koo Kien Kiet). But for our footballers, or most of them at least, their problem is their lack of skill.

Certainly, some of them can take the rap for throwing in the towel before the final whistle had blown. In the game against China, we conceeded a soft late goal because the players couldn't wait for the game to be over and fell asleep. Against the Uzbeks, we conceeded two late goals because their minds weren't on the game anymore (more on this later). And yes, a certain portoin of the blame has got to go to the mindset of some of them.

Our star player, Akmal Rizal once had a stint in Germany but was unable to hold a place in the team. He later claimed he was homesick, couldn't get used to the weather and the food, and hence came back to be the Jaguh Kampung he undoubtedly is today. He, along with a few others failed to make the most of the chance given to them to improve their game and came crawling back to their comfort zone.

Then, if you listen to the FAM president, Sultan Ahmad Shah, the coach Norizan Bakar is to blame for our disastrous start against China. He claimed Norizan had messed up with his team selection, leaving Indra Putra and K. Nanthakumar on the bench.

Sure, it is easy to hurl such accusations with the power of hindsight. It isn't just in Malaysian football, mind you. Coaches all over the world get blamed for wrong team selection all the time, but the fans fail to realise that the coaches sometimes make these decisions because they know more about the players than the fans do. In this case, it was very obvious that Indra Putra did not start because he just came back from a long injury, as did Akmal Rizal. Starting with two half-fit strikers is never a wise thing to do.

I do not wish to be in Norizan's shoes. I am totally and utterly convinced that being the head coach of our national football team is the worst job in the country. You have nothing to work with, you have everybody shitting on your head, and you are expected to perform miracles. It is not a job even God could do. Being a national team coach isn't quite the same as being the coach of a club team.

If Sir Alex Ferguson identified an area of his squad that was weak, he could go out and buy players to strengthen that area. If he fails to do that, or makes a wrong signing, his head would be on the chopping block, and fairly so. Encik Norizan Bakar has no such luxury. These players are the best of the lot. These are the players he has to work with whether he likes it or not, or whether they are good enough to face Iran. What do we expect him to do when none of our central defenders have the ability to control the ball and keep possession?

But of course, he still must take some blame for the drubbing. It was suicide to play 4-4-2 against technically and physically superior teams. Realistically, we had no chance of winning, but if the players could keep it tight and frustrate the opponent, we could have nicked something from a set piece (which we are bloody good at). In Jose Mourinho's words, we needed to 'park the bus in front of the goal'. We needed to play 4-5-1 and put 10 men behind the ball at all times. Hit them on the counter attack, hit them with a set piece. We could have at least put up some sort of fight if we made it to half time still level, even if it meant that their keeper didn't need to touch the ball once.

Then there is the favourite bash toy of the fans - the Football Association of Malaysia. Of course, it is simple enough to blame them. They are the ones who run the game in the country. When all goes pear shaped, they should take the heat. And rightly so, for many issues. We have a piss poor youth development programme. The national league is in shambles as are the the State FAs. They are the ones who are responsible for hiring the coaches, setting up the training facilities and scouting for talent so when everything fails, it is most convenient to blame the FAM and the involvement of politicians in the scene.

But politicians have always, always sat at the helm of the FAM. From our beloved Tunku Abdul Rahman right to the present day, the FAM president has always been a politician or a Sultan. And when you think about it, it is not as if the FAM has not realised that the current state of affairs is dire. They have - and they have taken countless number of steps to prevent it from declining further. They have revamped and restructured the league system countless of times in the last few years. In fact, it was the current FAM president Sultan Ahmad Shah, who turned the league from semi-pro to professional.

And when all conventional methods had failed, they tried unconventional methods but to no avail. They tried to piece together a team of youngsters to try to qualify for the 2000 Olympics. More recently was the silly MyTeam competition(not sure how much the FAM was involved in this - but still..) It was a sorry excuse of a scouting programme, but nonetheless efforts were made. What can you do if at the end of the day, when all you have are players that are simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH?

Which makes me wonder...

Everybody seems to ramble on and on about our so-called 'past glories' and how far we had sunk since those days. Just what kind of 'glory' are we talking about here?! We never made it to the World Cup and only made it to the Asian Cup final twice ever in 1976 and 1980, where we didn't even make it past the first round. We go on and on about how it was such a great achievement that we had qualified for the Olympics in 1972 and 1980, but if you need a short history lesson, here's one. Before 1984, Olympic football was for amateurs. Professionals weren't allowed to participate because FIFA was afraid that it would cheapen the World Cup.

And if you look at the timeline, it is obvious that our period of 'dominance' only lasted about 10 years - that is one whole generation of players. This is our equivalent of Portugal's Golden Generation. For Luis Figo, Rui Costa and Fernando Couto, read Mokhtar Dahari, Soh Chin Aun and Arumugam. Malaysian football had never seen bigger stars and probably will never see bigger stars. Sometimes, as much as it belittles their achievements, the pure fluke of having a whole generation of great players growing up together and playing together will never be replicated. It was a one-off. Zainal Abidin Hassan and Dollah Salleh aside, there wasn't anybody to replace them, so in truth, Malaysian football had started its decline a long, long time ago.

And that brings me to the chief culprit in this whole football fiasco - the Malaysian football fans.

As I said earlier, that is a term I am forced to use very loosely because the sad fact is that Malaysians do not make good sports fans. We are 'glory hunters' in every sense of the term.

I never had the privillege to watch the great Mokthar Dahari. I never even had the chance to watch the 1989 SEA Games - the last time we actually won something. But the most common excuse people give these days is that we have had no success. It seems we only support our teams when they win, and abandon them when they lose. Sometimes I wonder whether we deserve world class athletes. In squash and bowling we have world champions, world beaters, but we do not support them much. Instead of watching Nicol's games, all we do is pick up the papers the next morning and go, "Oh, Nicol won again. Cool!" and then go back about our business as usual.

The stadium was less than one-third full for the China game and absolutely deserted for the Uzbekistan game. Where was everybody?! How can we complain that our team isn't performing well when we do not even bother to turn up to support them? As football fans, we all know the 12th man phenomenon is extremely important. But instead of being the 12th man for our own national side, we only serve to demotivate them.

Picture this. You are playing for your country. You are already losing 3-0 and fighting with your inner demons, trying your hardest not to cave in. Nothing has gone right for you all night. You have been outplayed and outgunned. The only thing left that can possibly motivate you is the knowledge that you are representing your country and that you do not want to let your fans down. And then you look up and look around you and find the whole stadium is deserted. And whatever 'fans' you actually have are morons who turn up just to boo and hiss at you. The fans who, instead of supporting you and your teammates, turn up with banners to proclaim how much you suck. f*** it. What is there to play for?!?!

And it's not just the Asian Cup we are talking about. Our players have ZERO experience playing in the big stage. Was it any wonder why we lost to Singapore in the penalty shootout in the ASEAN Cup the other day? The famous Kallang Roar turned our boys' knees into jelly. They were faced with a full-house stadium screaming and taunting them. It is safe to say that most of them, if not all of them have never, ever played in front of a packed stadium before. Nobody supports the local league.

Nobody bothers going to the stadiums to watch the league games. We all thought that the league was getting better a couple of years ago when people flocked to the Shah Alam stadium to watch Selangor. Turns out they were all Indonesian workers going to see Bambang Pamungkas. Imagine that sort of patriotism - hoardes of them going to watch a football game, week in week out just because their fellow countryman played for a team which they should have no alliegience to.

We blame the FAM for not being able to deliver. We expect them to devise a programme that can bring us success in 5 years. And when they try to do that, they inevitably fail - because we are too impatient. You cannot change the whole system in 5 or even 10 years. The whole system needs a revamp. Somebody needs to say to them, "We give you 15 years. Tear up everything. Start from scratch." But no, we expect results and we expect them today.

And without us, without the football fans watching the games, where on Earth are you going to find sponsors? You can talk about youth development and all that boo-hah but if there is no sustained interest from the public, where do you propose the money comes from? Have a nice look at the American NCAA. I never went to an American university but I hear the fan base is fanatical. The games are even broadcast live on TV and people tune in to watch! Then ask yourself if you would ever consider watching Malay College Kuala Kangsar versus Kolej Tunku Jaafar.

Somebody I talked to just now was ranting about how Malaysian football sucks (it really is the flavour of the day). I asked him if he watched the game and he replied he didn't. "What for support them la? They suck so bad!" I replied, "So why do you care if they suck if you don't bother supporting them?" I remember our Rugby Sevens team getting smacked 73-0 a few years ago. But nobody gave a hoot about it because nobody cares about Rugby Sevens. Similarly, if you don't care enough to watch the game, why do you care enough to complain?

Who in their right mind wants to play for the national team at the moment? Who in the right mind wants to be a footballer in Malaysia? You play in front of empty stadiums, get a crappy paycheck and at the end of the day get a barrage of abuses no matter how hard you play. People like Hardi Jaafar and Hairuddin Omar spent the last two games running after every ball, back tracking when the team needed them, playing to their strengths but instead of hearing people say, "At least you did your best" they get people spitting all sorts of abuse on them. That is assuming the public even knows their names, which I am willing to wager a jug of beer that none of you reading this can name our Starting XI.

Don't complain unless you are part of the solution.

Start going to the local league games. When we fill up the stadiums, sponsors will come. The money will inject just a little bit more glamour into the game. The players would know that they have something to play for. The kids, the 8 year old kids will look at footballers as their idols and that might inspire them to want to be footballers when they grow up. How do you propose a youth development system when the kids do not want to be part of the system in fear that they will grow up into a dead career?

The blame can go to the players, the coaches and the FAM. But as the fans, we must take responsibilty for abandoning the game in the first place, and then expecting it to flourish after we ignored it for years.

Posted by vincent at 1:21 AM
Labels: malaysian footy

http://hantubola.blogspot.com/2007/07/mala...n-nutshell.html

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Dec 10 2011, 04:18 PM
azfamy
post Dec 10 2011, 04:45 PM

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^^
This should be published in printed media if not done so already. rclxms.gif
I wholeheartedly agree with your arguments.
aressandro10
post Dec 10 2011, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(azfamy @ Dec 10 2011, 04:45 PM)
^^
This should be published in printed media if not done so already. rclxms.gif
I wholeheartedly agree with your arguments.
*
its not my article though... credit to the blogger...
FLampard
post Dec 12 2011, 02:08 PM

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was chatting with an ex - perlis player that day. He said he quit football because they owed him 4 months salary, and it appears this happens commonly around in the industry.
ayanami_tard
post Dec 12 2011, 02:38 PM

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^that's what happened when some FA give too much attention on short term succes(trophy,cup,big name signing)...

Icahn
post Dec 12 2011, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 10 2011, 04:09 PM)
A 4 year old article that truly represents my opinions why our football is so bad...
July 16, 2007
Malaysian Football in a (Coco)Nutshell


Alas, it is that time of the year in the Malaysian Sports Calender where everybody inevitably points fingers, assigning the blame to someone, each one more adamant than the other that somebody else is to blame for the latest fiasco. I am of course, talking about Malaysia's latest outing in the international footballing arena. In our first game against China, we got smacked 5-1, while in the second game, we got whipped 5-0. Even the most optimistic of us can't pray for anything else other than a 2-0 defeat to Iran.

Yes, it has been that bad.

And so, true to the wise words of Homer Simpson (Why blame yourself when it is easier to blame others?) everybody has started pointing fingers even before the tournament had ended. Heck, the blame game started even before the players finished their post-game shower after the first game.

The coach has blamed some players for under-performing. The FAM have blamed the coach for wrong team selection, and the Malaysian football fans (this is a term I shall use very loosely for reasons which I shall elaborate further) have been blaming everybody. The only party involved who hasn't blamed anybody are the players, but that is because they are at the bottom of the food chain, and hence do not have anybody to pass the buck to.

But the sad fact is that EVERYBODY involved has to take some amount of blame. And by 'everybody' I mean the Malaysian football fans as well. Contrary to what we would like to believe, we are the ones sitting on top of the food chain - not FAM, not Sultan Ahmad Shah.

And so let us start from the very bottom.

It is very easy to blame the players. After all, they are the ones who actually determine whether we get a result or not. They are the ones performing, they are the ones who are the professional athletes. But is it fair? If we were Italians or Brazilians, we have the right to blame the players. But we aren't. Our world ranking of 149 is testament enough that we simply are not good enough. Iran is ranked 47, Uzbekistan 58, and China 76. Anybody who expected any other result would either be an eternal optimist, or an extremely deluded soul.

What can they do if they simply aren't good enough? What can they do if they simply aren't big enough or fast enough? When we look at other national sports, we can easily point fingers at the badminton players for lacking the fighting spirit (Hafiz) or being too cocky (Koo Kien Kiet). But for our footballers, or most of them at least, their problem is their lack of skill.

Certainly, some of them can take the rap for throwing in the towel before the final whistle had blown. In the game against China, we conceeded a soft late goal because the players couldn't wait for the game to be over and fell asleep. Against the Uzbeks, we conceeded two late goals because their minds weren't on the game anymore (more on this later). And yes, a certain portoin of the blame has got to go to the mindset of some of them.

Our star player, Akmal Rizal once had a stint in Germany but was unable to hold a place in the team. He later claimed he was homesick, couldn't get used to the weather and the food, and hence came back to be the Jaguh Kampung he undoubtedly is today. He, along with a few others failed to make the most of the chance given to them to improve their game and came crawling back to their comfort zone.

Then, if you listen to the FAM president, Sultan Ahmad Shah, the coach Norizan Bakar is to blame for our disastrous start against China. He claimed Norizan had messed up with his team selection, leaving Indra Putra and K. Nanthakumar on the bench.

Sure, it is easy to hurl such accusations with the power of hindsight. It isn't just in Malaysian football, mind you. Coaches all over the world get blamed for wrong team selection all the time, but the fans fail to realise that the coaches sometimes make these decisions because they know more about the players than the fans do. In this case, it was very obvious that Indra Putra did not start because he just came back from a long injury, as did Akmal Rizal. Starting with two half-fit strikers is never a wise thing to do.

I do not wish to be in Norizan's shoes. I am totally and utterly convinced that being the head coach of our national football team is the worst job in the country. You have nothing to work with, you have everybody shitting on your head, and you are expected to perform miracles. It is not a job even God could do. Being a national team coach isn't quite the same as being the coach of a club team.

If Sir Alex Ferguson identified an area of his squad that was weak, he could go out and buy players to strengthen that area. If he fails to do that, or makes a wrong signing, his head would be on the chopping block, and fairly so. Encik Norizan Bakar has no such luxury. These players are the best of the lot. These are the players he has to work with whether he likes it or not, or whether they are good enough to face Iran. What do we expect him to do when none of our central defenders have the ability to control the ball and keep possession?

But of course, he still must take some blame for the drubbing. It was suicide to play 4-4-2 against technically and physically superior teams. Realistically, we had no chance of winning, but if the players could keep it tight and frustrate the opponent, we could have nicked something from a set piece (which we are bloody good at). In Jose Mourinho's words, we needed to 'park the bus in front of the goal'. We needed to play 4-5-1 and put 10 men behind the ball at all times. Hit them on the counter attack, hit them with a set piece. We could have at least put up some sort of fight if we made it to half time still level, even if it meant that their keeper didn't need to touch the ball once.

Then there is the favourite bash toy of the fans - the Football Association of Malaysia. Of course, it is simple enough to blame them. They are the ones who run the game in the country. When all goes pear shaped, they should take the heat. And rightly so, for many issues. We have a piss poor youth development programme. The national league is in shambles as are the the State FAs. They are the ones who are responsible for hiring the coaches, setting up the training facilities and scouting for talent so when everything fails, it is most convenient to blame the FAM and the involvement of politicians in the scene.

But politicians have always, always sat at the helm of the FAM. From our beloved Tunku Abdul Rahman right to the present day, the FAM president has always been a politician or a Sultan. And when you think about it, it is not as if the FAM has not realised that the current state of affairs is dire. They have - and they have taken countless number of steps to prevent it from declining further. They have revamped and restructured the league system countless of times in the last few years. In fact, it was the current FAM president Sultan Ahmad Shah, who turned the league from semi-pro to professional.

And when all conventional methods had failed, they tried unconventional methods but to no avail. They tried to piece together a team of youngsters to try to qualify for the 2000 Olympics. More recently was the silly MyTeam competition(not sure how much the FAM was involved in this - but still..) It was a sorry excuse of a scouting programme, but nonetheless efforts were made. What can you do if at the end of the day, when all you have are players that are simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH?

Which makes me wonder...

Everybody seems to ramble on and on about our so-called 'past glories' and how far we had sunk since those days. Just what kind of 'glory' are we talking about here?! We never made it to the World Cup and only made it to the Asian Cup final twice ever in 1976 and 1980, where we didn't even make it past the first round. We go on and on about how it was such a great achievement that we had qualified for the Olympics in 1972 and 1980, but if you need a short history lesson, here's one. Before 1984, Olympic football was for amateurs. Professionals weren't allowed to participate because FIFA was afraid that it would cheapen the World Cup.

And if you look at the timeline, it is obvious that our period of 'dominance' only lasted about 10 years - that is one whole generation of players. This is our equivalent of Portugal's Golden Generation. For Luis Figo, Rui Costa and Fernando Couto, read Mokhtar Dahari, Soh Chin Aun and Arumugam. Malaysian football had never seen bigger stars and probably will never see bigger stars. Sometimes, as much as it belittles their achievements, the pure fluke of having a whole generation of great players growing up together and playing together will never be replicated. It was a one-off. Zainal Abidin Hassan and Dollah Salleh aside, there wasn't anybody to replace them, so in truth, Malaysian football had started its decline a long, long time ago.

And that brings me to the chief culprit in this whole football fiasco - the Malaysian football fans.

As I said earlier, that is a term I am forced to use very loosely because the sad fact is that Malaysians do not make good sports fans. We are 'glory hunters' in every sense of the term.

I never had the privillege to watch the great Mokthar Dahari. I never even had the chance to watch the 1989 SEA Games - the last time we actually won something. But the most common excuse people give these days is that we have had no success. It seems we only support our teams when they win, and abandon them when they lose. Sometimes I wonder whether we deserve world class athletes. In squash and bowling we have world champions, world beaters, but we do not support them much. Instead of watching Nicol's games, all we do is pick up the papers the next morning and go, "Oh, Nicol won again. Cool!" and then go back about our business as usual.

The stadium was less than one-third full for the China game and absolutely deserted for the Uzbekistan game. Where was everybody?! How can we complain that our team isn't performing well when we do not even bother to turn up to support them? As football fans, we all know the 12th man phenomenon is extremely important. But instead of being the 12th man for our own national side, we only serve to demotivate them.

Picture this. You are playing for your country. You are already losing 3-0 and fighting with your inner demons, trying your hardest not to cave in. Nothing has gone right for you all night. You have been outplayed and outgunned. The only thing left that can possibly motivate you is the knowledge that you are representing your country and that you do not want to let your fans down. And then you look up and look around you and find the whole stadium is deserted. And whatever 'fans' you actually have are morons who turn up just to boo and hiss at you. The fans who, instead of supporting you and your teammates, turn up with banners to proclaim how much you suck. f*** it. What is there to play for?!?!

And it's not just the Asian Cup we are talking about. Our players have ZERO experience playing in the big stage. Was it any wonder why we lost to Singapore in the penalty shootout in the ASEAN Cup the other day? The famous Kallang Roar turned our boys' knees into jelly. They were faced with a full-house stadium screaming and taunting them. It is safe to say that most of them, if not all of them have never, ever played in front of a packed stadium before. Nobody supports the local league.

Nobody bothers going to the stadiums to watch the league games. We all thought that the league was getting better a couple of years ago when people flocked to the Shah Alam stadium to watch Selangor. Turns out they were all Indonesian workers going to see Bambang Pamungkas. Imagine that sort of patriotism - hoardes of them going to watch a football game, week in week out just because their fellow countryman played for a team which they should have no alliegience to.

We blame the FAM for not being able to deliver. We expect them to devise a programme that can bring us success in 5 years. And when they try to do that, they inevitably fail - because we are too impatient. You cannot change the whole system in 5 or even 10 years. The whole system needs a revamp. Somebody needs to say to them, "We give you 15 years. Tear up everything. Start from scratch." But no, we expect results and we expect them today.

And without us, without the football fans watching the games, where on Earth are you going to find sponsors? You can talk about youth development and all that boo-hah but if there is no sustained interest from the public, where do you propose the money comes from? Have a nice look at the American NCAA. I never went to an American university but I hear the fan base is fanatical. The games are even broadcast live on TV and people tune in to watch! Then ask yourself if you would ever consider watching Malay College Kuala Kangsar versus Kolej Tunku Jaafar.

Somebody I talked to just now was ranting about how Malaysian football sucks (it really is the flavour of the day). I asked him if he watched the game and he replied he didn't. "What for support them la? They suck so bad!" I replied, "So why do you care if they suck if you don't bother supporting them?" I remember our Rugby Sevens team getting smacked 73-0 a few years ago. But nobody gave a hoot about it because nobody cares about Rugby Sevens. Similarly, if you don't care enough to watch the game, why do you care enough to complain?

Who in their right mind wants to play for the national team at the moment? Who in the right mind wants to be a footballer in Malaysia? You play in front of empty stadiums, get a crappy paycheck and at the end of the day get a barrage of abuses no matter how hard you play. People like Hardi Jaafar and Hairuddin Omar spent the last two games running after every ball, back tracking when the team needed them, playing to their strengths but instead of hearing people say, "At least you did your best" they get people spitting all sorts of abuse on them. That is assuming the public even knows their names, which I am willing to wager a jug of beer that none of you reading this can name our Starting XI.

Don't complain unless you are part of the solution.

Start going to the local league games. When we fill up the stadiums, sponsors will come. The money will inject just a little bit more glamour into the game. The players would know that they have something to play for. The kids, the 8 year old kids will look at footballers as their idols and that might inspire them to want to be footballers when they grow up. How do you propose a youth development system when the kids do not want to be part of the system in fear that they will grow up into a dead career?

The blame can go to the players, the coaches and the FAM. But as the fans, we must take responsibilty for abandoning the game in the first place, and then expecting it to flourish after we ignored it for years.

Posted by vincent at 1:21 AM 
Labels: malaysian footy

http://hantubola.blogspot.com/2007/07/mala...n-nutshell.html
*
I would like to present a rebuttal ( counter-arguments ) on the point of the "glory" days that was deemed as a fallacy by the blogger. Kalau betul "glory" days itu adalah satu fallacy, Malaysia tak akan menewaskan Arsenal 2-0 semasa zaman Mokhtar Dahari pada peringkat peak performance dia. ( Bukti rakaman video pun ada ditunjukkan dalam tV1 baru2 ini ). Arsenal pada masa itu already a professional team seperti sekarang, buat tour macam mereka buat sekarang. Tengok macam mana EPL clubs perform semasa buat friendly kat pre-season around the world sekarang, even kat USA pasukan MU belasah Seattle Sounders ke apa, 7-0. Kat Malaysia dulu senang2 je mereka belasa Malaysia 6-0, yg baru2 ni pun Arsenal belasah kita 4-0, Liverpool pula 6-3. Nak harap kita menang pada zaman ini, memang jauh panggang dari api. Tetapi dulu kita mampu menang dalam pre-season friendlies ni....


Zaman Mokhtar Dahari juga dulu kita pernah belasah Thailand 8-2 ( Ini aku dengar Zainal Abidin Rawop yg cakap dalam tv dulu ), jadi masa zaman tu gap kita dan Thailand adalah betul2 jauh, kita belasah mereka dengan teruk. Kalau betul diorang meragui benda ni dan nak buat studies pasal glory days ni, RTM adalah source yg betul untuk dijadikan rujukan kerana banyak bukti video2 perlawanan dan senarai pemain dalam arkib RTM seperti yg disiarkan dalam rancangan bola sepak klasik TV1, setiap hari Sabtu jam 11:30 malam!


Ni aku ambil dari source internet : "Before the establishment of Malaysia on September 16, 1963, the Malaysia national football team was known as Malaya national football team. Malaya's biggest achievement in football was becoming the bronze medalist in 1962 Asian Games held in Jakarta, Indonesia. " --> Jadi, if anything, at least kita adalah top 3 in Asia pada masa itu, dan Raja Asean yg x perlu dipertikaikan lagi. Kita adalah cream of the crop pada peringkat Asia, kalau pun mungkin bukan pada peringkat dunia.

Pencapaian individu pemain bangsa Melayu sendiri adalah bukti kepada perkara ini, dua contoh paling jelas ialah pencapaian Fandi Ahmad ( Melayu Singapura yg dulu adalah sebahagian dari negara Malaysia) dan Mokhtar Dahari. Mokhtar Dahari kalau diberi peluang dulu, memang layak main kat luar negara seperti Fandi. Fandi Ahmad pula, adalah local legend kat FC Groningen ( that sums it all up, regarding his abilities ).

Kalau betul pun glory days itu diperbesar2kan, aku rasa boleh jadi to certain extent, most evidently kerana pada masa itu kita x pernah layak ke world cup. Tetapi Olympic dulu pun, walaupun dulu hanya untuk pemain amatur, zaman sekarang pula untuk U-23 teams, so ianya bukan untuk full national teams, jadi lebih kurang je statusnya, bagi aku lah...

Silapnya zaman dulu kita hanya at least top 3 peringkat Asia, tidak pada peringkat dunia. Itu sahaja. Kita pun dulu memang tidak konsisten, aku pernah dengar otai2 lama dalam our football yg bagitau yg dulu pun kita ada masalah jumpa certain teams, mostly middle eastern teams....

Bagi aku, benda pasal "glory days" ni kita kena tanya orang2 lama yg in the inner circle, seperti Dato Abdul Ghani Minhat dan Hassan Sani yang masih hidup pada hari ini. Mereka perlu menjawab dengan honest pasal benda ni, baru kita tahu perkara sebenar.

Cuma ada satu point yg aku tak setuju dengan otai2 lama ni. Mereka kata dulu pemain Harimau Malaya main penuh passion sebab nak mewakili negara, kerana minat dan tanggungjawab, bukan semata2 kerana duit dan gaji seperti pemain sekarang. Habis, takkan diorang nak kata Lionel Messi dan C. Ronaldo main bukan sebab duit? Gaji mereka ini lebih banyak daripada our footballers, mencecah beratus2 ribu sebulan. David Beckham pun sama. Kalau aku ada bakat seperti Mokhtar Dahari dan Fandi Ahmad, dan ditawarkan main untuk Harimau Malaya dengan bayaran yg ciput, aku pun tak nak. Lagi2 pula kalau ada anak2 dan isteri, nak bagi mereka makan apa kalau duit takde? Dari satu segi pula, kalau bayaran tak memuaskan dari segi gaji, sensible and level headed parents takkan benarkan their children to take up football as a career. Ini benda mudah untuk difikirkan, jadi memang aku langsung tak setuju kalau mana2 bekas pemain zaman kegemilangan dulu, ataupun orang2 atasan FAM nak bangkitkan benda ni. An irrelevant argument career wise, sebab kat peringkat international, pemain yg dibayar berjuta2 dolar setahun tetap perform well in international duties for their national teams...Mungkin ada sesetengah world class players yg lost motivation setelah menang world cup dan jadi millionaires, seperti Ronaldinho dan Romario dulu, hari2 berparti, pergi disko, performance jatuh. Tetapi masih ramai lagi yg stay dedicated and performing, seperti Ronaldo R9, Dunga, Klinsmann, etc...

Btw, dalam world football, turun naik dalam negara2 kuasa bola sepak dunia ini memang berlaku. Kita tengok kepada Hungary sebagai contoh mudah, dulu mereka kuasa dunia dengan team the Mighty Magyars yg memang rule the world ( pernah dianggap oleh experts as a given untuk menang world cup, tetapi kat final kalah dengan west germany walaupun menang dengan negara sama kat group stage ) tetapi lately mereka tak layak pun ke World Cup. Uruguay dulu juara world cup dua kali, tetapi semasa tahun 1990s, mereka juga tak layak ke World Cup. Spain pula tak pernah menang WC sebelum 2010, memang betul2 perennial underachievers in world football. Tetapi sejak top gun mereka menemui revolusi dan mengamalkan idea tiki-taka dan possession football to compensate for their physical and skill set flaws, terus mereka menang Euro 08 dan WC 10 ( pasal Spain ini, dari perennial underachievers to world conquerers, adakah korang fikir ini hanyalah satu kebetulan? Satu kejayaan tanpa perancangan yg rapi?) Sedangkan dulu pernah top football community dismiss Spanish national football team as perennial failures when it matters most, especially in knock-out stages of the World Cup tournaments. Dulu pencapain terbaik mereka dalam WC sebelum 2010, seingat saya ialah dalam quarter final je...Dulu mereka hanya boleh berbangga dengan liga mereka sahaja as a top 3 league in world football...

Satu lagi yg aku selalu tengok. Algeria selalu dianggap sebagai pasukan yg ada potential untuk jadi world class team, masa World Cup 1982 mereka pernah kalahkan west germany dalam world cup group stage. Tetapi pemain berketurunan Algeria yg membesar di Perancis seperti Zidane, Samir Nasri dan Benzema sudahpun jadi legend, jadi world class players, bukannya setakat berpotensi untuk world class sahaja. Bangsa yg sama, fizikal yg sama, cuma mentality, training facilities, training environment, formative environments dan persekitaran yg berbeza....


Added on December 12, 2011, 5:53 pm
"Before the current golden era, Spain won the 1964 European Nations Cup and reached the UEFA Euro 1984 Final. In July 2008 Spain rose to the top of the FIFA World Rankings for the first time in the team's history, becoming the sixth nation to top this ranking, and the first nation to top the ranking without previously having won the World Cup. Between November 2006 and June 2009 Spain went undefeated for a record-tying 35 consecutive matches before their loss to the United States, a record shared with Brazil, including a record 15-game winning streak and thus earning third place in the FIFA Confederations Cup. Recently, the team has become known for using a style of play which involves roaming movement and positional interchange amongst midfielders, moving the ball in intricate patterns, and sharp, one- or two-touch passing; this style of play has been dubbed Tiki-taka (or Tiqui-taca). The success of Spain in recent times and their style of play, has helped the Spanish team become a dominant force in world football."

This post has been edited by Icahn: Dec 12 2011, 06:01 PM
aressandro10
post Dec 12 2011, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Dec 12 2011, 02:08 PM)
was chatting with an ex - perlis player that day. He said he quit football because they owed him 4 months salary, and it appears this happens  commonly around in the industry.
*
QUOTE(ayanami_tard @ Dec 12 2011, 02:38 PM)
^that's what happened when some FA give too much attention on short term succes(trophy,cup,big name signing)...
*
FAs cant posibly have a long term plan because they only live on year in year out basis based on their sponsor. if their sponsor is a politician, the investment must give fruit within the 4 year election term and the FA's allocation are revised yearly based on that. A businessman wont invest in football at all as the the return of invesmeent target are sharper than politicians.

our state FAs dont have a long term asset of their own. that is the strong brand name and group of loyal fans who gurantee season tickets year in year out. even sucky teams in europe like norwich, hull or wolves can expect a decent long term support from fans. we dont.

its about time we also give that to our football team...


Duke Red
post Jan 4 2012, 07:47 PM

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http://football.thestar.com.my/2012/01/04/fam-in-la-la-land/

Someone define insanity please.

I posted before that the FAM need to eat a piece of humble pie and seek foreign help who have more experience in developing football. It seems however that we don't even need to look that far.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jan 4 2012, 07:49 PM
aressandro10
post Jan 4 2012, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 4 2012, 07:47 PM)
http://football.thestar.com.my/2012/01/04/fam-in-la-la-land/

Someone define insanity please.

I posted before that the FAM need to eat a piece of humble pie and seek foreign help who have more experience in developing football. It seems however that we don't even need to look that far.
*
what are your opinion about the total chaos?
Duke Red
post Jan 4 2012, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Jan 4 2012, 08:00 PM)
what are your opinion about the total chaos?
*
You mean about this?

QUOTE
Tension is already escalating between the parent body and the affiliates over several issues – mainly on the signing of foreign players, uncertain venues, floodlights, poor condition of fields and the usual amendments to the fixtures.


Less than happy.


Falcom4ever
post Jan 5 2012, 10:23 PM

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In order to make Malaysia a nation of football it would be necessary :
1. People interessted in playing football
2. More fields for more local clubs to host more people that want to play football
3. More formation center in this local clubs to make this people growing

If countries like Qatar, North Korea, Vietnam can have decent national teams, why not Malaysia ? It is just a matter of will wink.gif.
ayanami_tard
post Jan 6 2012, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(Falcom4ever @ Jan 5 2012, 11:23 PM)
If countries like Qatar, North Korea, Vietnam can have decent national teams, why not Malaysia ? It is just a matter of will wink.gif.
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Qatar=fulus
NK=if not they will suffer 3 generation
vietnam=the only way to escape poverty


Duke Red
post Jan 6 2012, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(Falcom4ever @ Jan 5 2012, 10:23 PM)
In order to make Malaysia a nation of football it would be necessary :
1. People interessted in playing football
2. More fields for more local clubs to host more people that want to play football
3. More formation center in this local clubs to make this people growing

If countries like Qatar, North Korea, Vietnam can have decent national teams, why not Malaysia ? It is just a matter of will wink.gif.
*
In recent times I think we've proven we are a match for Vietnam.

Looking at your points :-

1. Football is a game we have all played at some point in our lives. It's been said that kids are discouraged to pursue it as a career by their parents because the financial gains aren't attractive. It's inconsistent if anything. Kelantan for example pays their players well as other state sides like Selangor. What about smaller states like Perlis though? I still hear about salaries owed.

2. Yea this is a problem. It's more than just a lack of fields though. There is very little effort put into player development. We spoke about academies earlier in the discussion. Heck, even our "world class facilities" aren't up to mark. Read The Star two days ago and our diving team had to go to China to train because facilities in Bukit Jalil were not properly maintained. This is Bukit Jalil we're talking about.

3. Sorry, don't follow.
Falcom4ever
post Jan 6 2012, 02:28 PM

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C'mon guys.

First people here don't like their teams as much they like english teams. All people wearing Man U, Chelsea and even small english teams jerseys! People wearing jerseys from malaysian teams? Some times one or two guys wearing selangor or kelantan teams jersey, but rare and that's all.

You know, even in England people don't support necessary premiership teams. People support a lot their local clubs. Even someone lives in London, he might support Charlton from League One. In that way even small clubs have attendance and money to pay the players or attract decent foreign players.

Now let's take a look at Switzerland national team. I know pretty well Switzerland situation as I live there at the moment. It is only 7M inhabitants, less than London. However they qualified recently very often for world cups and euro championships. How can a small country like that do better than countries with more inhabitants and more football culture (national sport here is ice hockey, and even not football)?

Do you think that Switzerland has a great league ? No, the only professionnal league is the superleague that has only 10 teams. Most this teams have foreigner players and not so many local players.

So where is the secret of the success of the national team ? The secret is formation center, formation, formation and formation.

In Switzerland, in any city, you can find several clubs and leagues everywhere. Even in small villages of 500 inhabitants, there is at least a soccer field and a local team. There are organized local leagues, and teams can be promoted to a regional league, and then to a national league. And moreover, professionnal teams have all an academic formation center. Young people can do the studies and play in the club at the same time, everything is paid by the club.

This does that there are a lot of good young players in Switzerland. Before they reach 18 years old, it is not rare that big teams like Chelsea, Barcelona, Milan come to take this young players to their formation center. Youngs that had not this chance, have later the choice of go to work or continue their studies, or have a try in a semi-pro team in switzerland, germany or italy.

Japan situation is not that different, but they have the advantage to have more inhabitants and then more people following local teams. In Japan outside Tokyo, there is a lot of small amateur teams, and big teams have formation centers. That is why Tokyo teams are not the best despite it is the home of 25% of the japaneses.

This post has been edited by Falcom4ever: Jan 6 2012, 03:30 PM
ameenskywalker
post Jan 6 2012, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(Falcom4ever @ Jan 6 2012, 04:28 PM)
C'mon guys.

First people here don't like their teams as much they like english teams. All people wearing Man U, Chelsea and even small english teams jerseys! People wearing jerseys from malaysian teams? Some times one or two guys wearing selangor or kelantan teams jersey, but rare and that's all.
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I do not know for other state, but as far as Kelantan concern, more and more fan are donning their jersey proudly. And even today, probably due to Charity Shield tomorrow, I've seen a lot of reds in around Masjid Jamek during friday prayer.

Agree with Duke, financial make a huge difference. In Kelantan case, it started with a good management since TSAM took over. The re-branding and restructuring exercise that he did made a lot of impact and result is more and more attendance which also attract sponsorship. One could argue with a chicken and eggs situation, but for us it started with the management and fan would follow.
Duke Red
post Jan 6 2012, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(ameenskywalker @ Jan 6 2012, 04:36 PM)
I do not know for other state, but as far as Kelantan concern, more and more fan are donning their jersey proudly. And even today, probably due to Charity Shield tomorrow, I've seen a lot of reds in around Masjid Jamek during friday prayer.

Agree with Duke, financial make a huge difference. In Kelantan case, it started with a good management since TSAM took over. The re-branding and restructuring exercise that he did made a lot of impact and result is more and more attendance which also attract sponsorship. One could argue with a chicken and eggs situation, but for us it started with the management and fan would follow.
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In terms of getting fans organised, KAFA has done better than anyone else in the country I feel. The Red Warriors have their own website and mobilise in numbers whenever they play. When Kelantan play at home it isn't uncommon to have thousands more outside the stadium without tickets. Unless I'm mistaken, KAFA subsidises ticket prices for members and they organise makan sessions before big games. Also, when the team wins a trophy, they parade it around KB and smaller towns. They throw kenduri sessions to celebrate together with the fans. I think TSAM is forward thinking in this aspect. He is basically replicating what clubs abroad do. They have just renewed their contract with Happy and supporting sponsors. He is building or has built a brand much like big football clubs have done.
ameenskywalker
post Jan 6 2012, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 6 2012, 07:32 PM)
In terms of getting fans organised, KAFA has done better than anyone else in the country I feel. The Red Warriors have their own website and mobilise in numbers whenever they play. When Kelantan play at home it isn't uncommon to have thousands more outside the stadium without tickets. Unless I'm mistaken, KAFA subsidises ticket prices for members and they organise makan sessions before big games. Also, when the team wins a trophy, they parade it around KB and smaller towns. They throw kenduri sessions to celebrate together with the fans. I think TSAM is forward thinking in this aspect. He is basically replicating what clubs abroad do. They have just renewed their contract with Happy and supporting sponsors. He is building or has built a brand much like big football clubs have done.
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Yes I agree. Also he laid some good foundation for the youth academy as well.

In regards to the subsidize ticket for members im not sure. But we do get a bit of discount for buying season ticket. Because I remember TSAM did mentioned that subsidization is against his ideas to fully transform TRW into self sustained independent of FA financial support.
Duke Red
post Jan 6 2012, 07:02 PM

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Yup the academy is an important contribution of his. From what I know there are about 300 odd youth players there and the best players make the elite squad. Any idea why he doesn't encourage other states to do the same seeing as he is VP of FAM? Is it a money issue with the other states?
aressandro10
post Jan 6 2012, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 6 2012, 07:02 PM)
Yup the academy is an important contribution of his. From what I know there are about 300 odd youth players there and the best players make the elite squad. Any idea why he doesn't encourage other states to do the same seeing as he is VP of FAM? Is it a money issue with the other states?
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money issue. and also fan isssue. Kelantanese are a kind of special case.... other people when the come Kuala Lumpur, they slowly cut ties with their roots. Kelantanese stay kelantanese all the way...


VP of FAM does not have that much power to force people to do something. He did try to improved other states through FAM marketing arm MSL though. But there are sense that TSAM's influece is somehow curbed in FAM.


Added on January 6, 2012, 9:26 pm
QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 6 2012, 09:38 AM)
In recent times I think we've proven we are a match for Vietnam.

Looking at your points :-

1. Football is a game we have all played at some point in our lives. It's been said that kids are discouraged to pursue it as a career by their parents because the financial gains aren't attractive. It's inconsistent if anything. Kelantan for example pays their players well as other state sides like Selangor. What about smaller states like Perlis though? I still hear about salaries owed.

2. Yea this is a problem. It's more than just a lack of fields though. There is very little effort put into player development. We spoke about academies earlier in the discussion. Heck, even our "world class facilities" aren't up to mark. Read The Star two days ago and our diving team had to go to China to train because facilities in Bukit Jalil were not properly maintained. This is Bukit Jalil we're talking about.

3. Sorry, don't follow.
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if only the fact that football players are paid that much are highlighted more. Right now, the image that stuck in parent's mind is Kuala Lumpur's players unpaid salaries and players go broke after injured or retirement, and negative comment from about everyone about performance of our players which is not really a good motivation to shoe their children into..

parent dont care about high money for one season, the care more about stability and long term. Life as a footballer does not guarantee that.... Unlike in the EPL, one contract in malaysia does not set one for a lifetime....

but things are changing though.... the streak of success by the national team is slowly changing the orbit.... we can only see the result in the long term though..

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Jan 6 2012, 09:26 PM
Duke Red
post Jan 7 2012, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Jan 6 2012, 09:13 PM)
parent dont care about high money for one season, the care more about stability and long term. Life as a footballer does not guarantee that.... Unlike in the EPL, one contract in malaysia does not set one for a lifetime....

but things are changing though.... the streak of success by the national team is slowly changing  the orbit.... we can only see the result in the long term though..
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Also, there isn't much promise after life as a football player. Not sure how much coaches get paid but not very much I imagine. Not too many will have the opportunity to go down the road Shebby took and become an ESPN pundit. The other option is to coach abroad as evident in the article I posted earlier from The Star. However one has to be able to adapt to living abroad leaving his family behind if this is the case. Not easy.

On the future of the national team, I think we're looking beyond the current crop of young tigers. If TSAM's academy reaps results, we'll see the next crop surfacing soon.
aressandro10
post Jan 7 2012, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 7 2012, 08:41 AM)
Also, there isn't much promise after life as a football player. Not sure how much coaches get paid but not very much I imagine. Not too many will have the opportunity to go down the road Shebby took and become an ESPN pundit. The other option is to coach abroad as evident in the article I posted earlier from The Star. However one has to be able to adapt to living abroad leaving his family behind if this is the case. Not easy.

On the future of the national team, I think we're looking beyond the current crop of young tigers. If TSAM's academy reaps results, we'll see the next crop surfacing soon.
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Thanks to KAFA's Academy, other academis are start to crop up at Terengganu, Perak and Negeri Sembilan. My hope to see TSAM as the pacemaker of our football industry has started to materealised. Sponsors have now started to take shirt sponsorship deal with Terengganu also having more than one shirt sponsor like Kelantan do....

you just can hear the shreak and the rust coming off as the previously idle gear start moving..

but comparison with japan is just unfair. the have a yearly budget of 120 million euros. They have signed an agreement to give free broadcasting rights to free-to-air tvs in South east asian countries. they are that rich.
Yukieliow
post Jan 7 2012, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(Helweiz @ Oct 19 2011, 11:49 AM)
Its because Malaysia football does not been commercialize..
no heavy investment from companies that know well about the game and promoting it.
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Good point! DUNHILL use to do it well.. but once FAM took away it became dead..


Added on January 7, 2012, 11:45 amMaybe the return of Singapore will make the league exciting once more? lets see

This post has been edited by Yukieliow: Jan 7 2012, 11:45 AM

 

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