I don't have anything against people who take roids, provided they bust their ass off and know what they're doing and how to go about doing it. Heck, we all look up to pro BBers cause we know how much effort they put into their training and nutrition. It's the lazy people who think they can get huge with a jab here and there while sitting around and watching TV all day that ticks me off.

many thing is illegal in america lol

Sauce bre.

Take steroid and see if you can do full planche and iron cross. Never going to happen! Good things only happen to those who are patience enough. I hate steroid thread...

Why do you hate steroid thread?This thread is for the open minded people that just discuss about steroid pros and cons and not asking anybody to take it...I myself open this thread just to add my knowledge about steroid not take it....Feel free to post useful info about steroid not just acting butthurt...

But in Malaysia posses drug=Game Over...US prison or probation 

Take steroid and see if you can do full planche and iron cross. Never going to happen! Good things only happen to those who are patience enough. I hate steroid thread...

But in Malaysia posses drug=Game Over...US prison or probation 

I purposely put those two move to give a clue that it is about tendon strength. I doubt the tendon can keep up with the sudden muscle strength improvement. In the end, the steroid taker just need to take it slowly. With steroid the added fat at the waist might bring some disadvantage to steroid taker especially for strength-bodyweight move like this. With all the strength increase the desire to push further can easily put the steroid taker to injury due to the tendon strength cant keep up with the muscle strength increase and the added weight at the waist. I purposely refer to planche and iron cross just because of this... and when you take steroid and have to pace yourself slowly to tendon strength pace, in the end... why not just go natural?

No, if the juicer knows how to pace himself properly, he will still overtake the natural trainee. And what do you mean "added fat around the waist"? There are cycles for bulking and cutting. You're implying that those on juice will always make training mistakes, etc. Not so.
It's sad but true, sleep, nutrition and training for a natural trainee no matter how hardcore will never compare to a person who juices and does the same thing.

Bear in mind when I say this, I'm not anti steroid, just pro natural. It's a matter of personal choice. Steroid use is not wrong, steroid abuse is.

I don't know where this topic is going but full planche and iron cross does not need the aid of steroids at all to develop.

Steroids has its place and uses in bodybuilding, power lifting, sports, etc etc. However using steroids for gymnastics or calisthenics is just pure silly. Can you imagine someone wanted to do more push ups and he took steroids?

The progress in planche is not measured by weeks or even days. It is measure by month. Even so, it is a small progress only. Significant result is measured by years. The approach towards this kind of goal is totally different then weight training. You have to take it slowly. When you really think about that kind of time frame... I dont think there will be significant difference between juice taker and non juice taker. Non juice taker just have the same time frame as juice taker. We are not talking about muscle strength. This is about tendon strength.

During that long period of building tendon strength there is just ample time for non juice taker to build muscle strength to the level adequate for their newer tendon strength. When you are lean and clean, there is no need to spend more time on shaving off the extra fat at the waist. No need to cut. It means more time to train the art they are doing. I still dont believe steroid taker is at an advantage over non steroid taker. You might argue otherwise but I still dont believe it.

I don't know where this topic is going but full planche and iron cross does not need the aid of steroids at all to develop.

Steroids has its place and uses in bodybuilding, power lifting, sports, etc etc. However using steroids for gymnastics or calisthenics is just pure silly. Can you imagine someone wanted to do more push ups and he took steroids?

More common than you would think!

You both don't really know anything much about AAS don't you?

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Added on October 13, 2011, 9:07 pm

Lol... Kavi... hope your throat clears up faster.

More common than you would think!

You've done +100% BW dips and chinups and I don't think you needed roids to get there.