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English Clubs Manchester United Street Talks, Man Utd 1 Man City 6

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Wan
post Oct 16 2011, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(pyroboy1911 @ Oct 16 2011, 12:52 PM)
Wah, i didnt know you lots are Mancs or Mancunians, u all from Manchester, can speak Malay and Manglish also? Not bad biggrin.gif
*
There's always 'scum' attached to that 'mancs' term whenever that dugong riding sea horses mentions that term in his/her post. Obsessed with us like his hero, Rafa. 19 must hurt real bad. Heard rumours supply of vaseline is low in his/her area.

That and glory hunters. We all are according to him/her. And all 'mancs', us malaysian ones especially are clueless abt football according to him/her.
Wan
post Oct 16 2011, 10:42 PM

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But the intention was there from Jones. Jones have this power where whoever langgar him would only fall down hours after the collision.
Wan
post Oct 16 2011, 10:51 PM

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Come back kings. Last 10mins and it was at Anfield as well. Home of the bestest and loudest fans in the world(best midfield, golden gloves award 2007, 2008, best striker and carrol as well). I like very much the. It must be hard for them to sit or lie on their backs. Let's hope they recover fully from this.
Wan
post Oct 17 2011, 10:28 PM

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Rafa and mind games = Facht..
No need to say more. laugh.gif
Wan
post Oct 17 2011, 10:54 PM

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Mind game work so well, all they could get is a draw at home in their biggest game of the season.
If they really think that way, they're totally obsessed with us. Not surprised really.. icon_idea.gif
laugh.gif

Pecah perutku..


Added on October 17, 2011, 10:55 pmuser posted image

This post has been edited by Wan: Oct 17 2011, 10:58 PM
Wan
post Oct 17 2011, 11:34 PM

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How Patrice Evra has never played the race card and why assumptions are dangerous
QUOTE
Football can do a lot of things. It can turn completely stable people into emotional wrecks, it can play with our emotions like nothing else, save perhaps a member of the opposite sex. In short, it’s a very powerful thing. One thing it should not do, however, is to change our perspective. Not footballing perspective, of course you should feel free to argue that your team is better than my team, your fans are louder than my fans, your grass is greener than our grass. But our general perspective, such as the ability to analyse a serious claim, should be unmoved by which football team we hope scores more goals than the other.

On Saturday, Patrice Evra of Manchester United accused Luis Suarez of Liverpool of making racist remarks towards him. Unfortunately, though the ‘of”s in the previous sentence should not be of importance, they have been made so. It has become about football. This is not an incident about football. It took place on a football pitch, between two men wearing football shirts, but it’s not about football. To bastardise a famous Bill Shankly quote, it’s much more important than that.

Immediately after the allegations were made, a lot of people reacted based on which team they supported. United fans were quick to label Suarez a racist, with certainty, whilst Liverpool fans accused Evra of lying, also with certainty.

The latter however, took a somewhat more sinister form. Liverpool fans, and employees, claimed Evra had a history of playing the ‘race card’. For those who don’t know, the race card refers to exploitation of racist attitudes to gain a personal advantage, typically by falsely accusing others of racism against oneself. In essence, they were saying Evra had in the past lied about being targeted by racial abuse. A very serious claim, I’m sure you’ll agree. It stands to reason that if it is a serious thing to claim racist abuse, it is also a serious thing to claim someone has lied about claiming racial abuse.

Liverpool’s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that “Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.” This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that it wasn’t remotely true, not one bit.

In fact, before Saturday, Evra had accused zero people of racism, not the three quoted by Mr. Walsh and dozens of other Liverpool fans, not two, nor even one. There have been two incidents involving Evra and accusations of racial insults, the only problem is that Evra did not claim in either that he was racially abused – the claims came from others.

In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I’m sure you’ll agree.

In the case with involving Chelsea groundsman, Tony Bethell, it was Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis of Manchester United’s coaching staff who claimed they heard the abuse. As the FA report says “The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.” It later goes on to say “Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.”

So in reality, Evra accused neither Finnan nor Bethell of a racist remark. The claims were done by others. These are the cold, hard facts.

Liverpool is a club that has been hit hard by lies in the past, namely by the despicable Kelvin Mackenzie and the Sun. One might therefore assume that their fans would be careful to ensure that they themselves endeavor to have the full facts of any case emerge. Of course, accusations of racism against Luis Suarez and accusations of the actions of fans on a day where 96 people died are on different scales, however the principle should remain. If in one instance you abhor lies being told where an accusation is made, you should probably endeavor not do so yourself in another instance.

As I touched on earlier, Manchester United fans who have assumed Suarez’s guilt are also worthy of scorn. Just as a lot of Liverpool fans would have reacted differently if Glen Johnson had accused Nemanja Vidic of racist remarks, so too would a lot United fans. Perhaps even incidents involving Johnson and “playing the race card” would have been fabricated.

“Innocent until proven guilty” should not be a changeable stance. If that’s your belief, it’s your belief. It should not be changed because of which football team you prefer. Of course, just as important as “innocent until proven guilty” is that the lack of a guilty verdict does not necessarily mean innocence. In the 1998 adaption of the old play “12 Angry Men”, a juror slowly and painstakingly convinces his fellow jurors not to convict a seemingly guilty man. In the aftermath of the case, he is asked who he believed committed the murder. He replies, to the amazement of the queror, that he thinks it was probably the man he just convinced everyone to acquit.

If, which seems likely, there is found to be not enough evidence, or none, to prove Suarez made racist remarks, inevitably people will assume that Evra was lying. But surely if your initial requirement to the claims that Suarez was racist was “prove it”, the same logic should be applied to the claims that Evra was lying? A lack of proof does not mean an incident has not happened, it simply means it cannot be proven to have happened. As dangerous as it is to assume Suarez is guilty, it is equally as dangerous to conclude Evra is lying if it cannot be proven. It is for this reason that Liverpool as a club have been irresponsible if they have, as has been reported, called for a ban for Evra if the allegations can’t be proven.

The instant reaction of “he’s lying” to an accusation of racism is not only foolish, but dangerous. Chris Kamara has stated that he was frequently racially abused on the football pitch, but would not report it, as it would be impossible to prove and therefore he would not be believed. The 1999 Macpherson Report in Britain concluded that “There is a fear that when people do report incidents [of racism] they won’t be believed or it won’t be taken seriously”. It is therefore safe to assume that the reaction of people to a claim of racist abuse is quite important, and not merely footballing banter. We are talking about something that can have a severe knock-on effect for other people.

Football is a wonderful thing, but can also be a dangerous thing. When we as football fans are switching our moral views, assuming guilt or fabricating incidents based on the shirt a man is wearing, we have gone too far. We cannot and must not lose perspective because of it. As ridiculous as it is for a man who didn’t have another care in the world on Saturday at 12.45, it is only a game.

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/how-patri...-are-dangerous/
Wan
post Oct 18 2011, 02:28 PM

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But but i thought they don't make excuses?
Them being holy and all..
Wan
post Oct 19 2011, 04:37 AM

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QUOTE(tzxsean @ Oct 19 2011, 04:33 AM)
0-2!! While noisy neighbour still winless
*
Mulut celupar! tongue.gif


--

Oh, a Rooney dive. Interesting.. brows.gif
Clearly there was intent from the guy who brought him down tho.. laugh.gif
Wan
post Oct 19 2011, 04:39 AM

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There's actual touch, and intent from the defender that brought him down.
Case close using their logic..

Oh wai...
Wan
post Oct 19 2011, 04:43 AM

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QUOTE(zx12 @ Oct 19 2011, 04:40 AM)
You didn't see? Rooney ran into his leg. He should've gotten a booking for that dive, no?
*
Ex Evertonian, playing for United. Automatic 3 games ban for him according to them would be my guess.
And since it's in CL, and considering Rooney is English 5 games ban. Bloody Platin-I-hate-everything-English
Wan
post Oct 19 2011, 04:57 AM

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Rooney dived to seal the win. Fantastic. biggrin.gif
Wan
post Oct 19 2011, 01:18 PM

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There was intent from tat trololtul player. So its ok.
Cant beat tat logic.
Wan
post Oct 20 2011, 06:51 PM

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He got the #1 shirt and the starting place even though he's only 20 or so years old, and is new to the league. What does that tells you? SAF rates him better than Lindergaard. While Lindergaard is a good GK himself, right now De Gea is ahead of him. There's no reason for us to change the pecking order right now. De Gea is the present and the future. What mistakes has he done since those 'two' he let in in the first few games?


Added on October 20, 2011, 6:52 pmHe's been playing really2 well as well.
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

This post has been edited by Wan: Oct 20 2011, 06:52 PM
Wan
post Oct 20 2011, 07:03 PM

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I'm not offended at all.

Facts are that even though he's been with us for 6 months before De Gea joined, he was still not considered to be the #1 even though De Gea is only 20 years old. But it doesn't matter anyways since Lindegaard only started playing regularly in 2009 at the same time as De Gea started getting regular games for Atletico Madrid. So game experience wise, they are both at the same level more or less although I would argue that De Gea is a level ahead simply because he plays in a more competitive league before joining us.

After seeing them both so far, although admittedly not so much of Lindegaard since he's still new, I would say De Gea is ahead of him based of performance and ability. That's just what my observation are. If his performance wasn't good, he would lose his place long time ago. Instead in every important games, he has played ahead of Lindegaard.

This post has been edited by Wan: Oct 20 2011, 07:05 PM
Wan
post Oct 20 2011, 07:10 PM

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And what are the mistakes he has made since those early games?

Lindegaard's first game for us. hmm.gif
What say you?



Added on October 20, 2011, 7:13 pm
QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Oct 20 2011, 07:07 PM)
Please dont show your ignorance in your workplace as you are doing it now.

DG's mistakes cost us goals and we needed the services of our attackers to win the game. i.e DG's mistakes cost the company RM10 loss but the sales team managed to get RM15 in revenue thus giving the company a profit of RM5. Had DG didnt make any mistakes, the company could have gain a profit of RM15.

Lindergaard is not that much older, in fact at 27 he is a prime time candidtate to be be a super star goalie. But hell, I'm talking about the current situation. And yeah, you have just agreed that  Lindergaard is better than DG, and there is no telling that DG will be better or even gain more foundation when he is older.

I can't say that "mark my words" that Sir Alex will decide to give the no. 1 shirt to Lindergaard, but I'm pretty sure he always reconsiders his judgement unlike you lot who have decided to choose De Gea as if you are his loverboys or something.
*
laugh.gif

Us defending De Gea = loverboys
You bigging up Lindegaard = neutral on this case

Somethings not right there.. cool.gif

This post has been edited by Wan: Oct 20 2011, 07:13 PM
Wan
post Oct 20 2011, 08:07 PM

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It was because PIG wanted to go. So we had to prepare for that time. But allegedly, we wanted too much for him, so nobody took him from us.
Wan
post Oct 20 2011, 08:24 PM

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Kuszczak wanted to leave since he knows we dont view him as a potential #1 nor will he be given chances to because we don't think he's the one.

DDG 9 games. 1 community shield, 7 EPL, 1 in CL
Lindegaard 3 games - 1 against Norwich at home, 2 in CL
Amos 2 games - 1 CC game against Leeds
I think it's safe to say, for whatever reason, DDG is ahead of the pecking order.

And our backup GKs getting game is nothing new. Kuszczak and Foster whenever they were fit got chances throughout the season in the past. Like the outfield positions, there are rotations now and then, just not so much. We don't want the backups getting rusty.

Lindegaard is a very good GK though. A lot better than Kuszczak temperament wise. More calm and his kicking is much better.
Wan
post Oct 21 2011, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(pisces88 @ Oct 21 2011, 02:57 PM)
AL should be given his fair share of games, now warming bench too much..
*
Well, the GK position ain't a place where you can rotate so much unlike other positions. And right now De Gea is in front of Lindegaard for that spot. And ability + performance play a big part why he's starting ahead of Lindegaard right now.
Wan
post Oct 21 2011, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(siksa @ Oct 21 2011, 12:57 PM)
what i think about both of our GK?

DdG=omg!he is gonna make a mistake,omg!its a corner,omg!its a freekick....whoa! great save...

AL=even if its a goal/great save no reaction at all.
*
AL - 3 games.
Benfica away where we always play cautiously.
Norwich home.
Otelul hardly a giant.

Compared that to De Gea's 9 games.
Citeh
WBA where he got tortured
Spurs as VDV's target practice,
Arsenal where it was a pretty open game despite the scoreline
Bolton away
Chelsea
Stoke - Delap's HJ/corners
Basel - We went 3-0 up at HT, and switched off
away at Team with bestest fans, midfield, defence, one great striker(the best since Torres), and GK who was won the Golden Gloves 3 times!

And in almost all of that 9 games we played a very open game.
QUOTE(zenix @ Oct 20 2011, 08:50 PM)
..
user posted image
*

Wan
post Oct 23 2011, 06:49 AM

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user posted image


Added on October 23, 2011, 7:02 amBust cycle gif.. someone repost that.

This post has been edited by Wan: Oct 23 2011, 07:02 AM

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