The house was built in 1997 and I want to sell now so agent ask me where is the architecture plan and CF. I search the S&P and all other documents and cant find it. It was not mentioned in the S&P also.

I write to MPAJ and ask for a copy but they said in 1997 there were no CF, only Borang F. They advise me to find the architect or previous owner to get a copy, if no copy ask them to give me the nombor file so MPAJ can help me to search, if still cant find it then have to find the architect to draw a new architecture plan and submit again, and borang F must be drawn and signed by the same architect.

This particular architect who built the house said it takes 8 months to get the borang F, cost is 10% of the house value, but can give 50% discount, the house is 2m, so 100K for the architecture plan and borang F, WTF?!?! Then he said he can take only 1% which is 20K but that is still a lot of money.

Then MPAJ said 1 month to process only. Now previous owner cant find it and he said the most important thing is the land title, there is quit rent and assessment and the house is 14 years old so CF is not that important and if buyer insist he can go ask someone to do it.

I call CIMB and PBB both of them said they need Land Title, S&P, quit rent & assessment to process the loan, no need CF or architecture plan. Agent said the house can still be sold without the Borang F and architecture plan. But if buyer insist then I still have to do it.

Anyone has this kind of experience? How and what should I do to solve this problem? Just tell the buyer that I lost it and if he insist he go get someone to do it? Any buyers/sellers bought/sold property without the CF/Borang F & architecture plan?

I bought a house without a CF and Layout plan.
The house owner is also a second hand buyer thus no layout plan and CF.
When I wanted to renovate, hired an agent who sourced the CF and drawn up another layout plan.
Cost Me Less than 4k only.
Should not be a big deal.

Buyer insist, just say
"you want to buy this house, I sell, I don't sell CF and architect plan"

or in a nicer way
"this house is sold without CF and architect plan, but if you insist, it can be sourced (hidden meaning- you want you go get yourself)"

This post has been edited by phoenix69: Sep 14 2011, 12:28 AM

I buy 1 apartment without CF (owner lost it) and Architecture plan (owner lost it also), S&P (Owner lost it also, lucky i found a copy at lawyer) and strata title (developer bankrupt before applying). Bank still loan me the money. What do you think? It is not necessary lah for CF and Architecture plan.

Just ask him to hire a contractor or draughtsman to draw the existing layout. Since local council does not have CF, where the hell you want to get CF for him?

The buyer can renovate the house, and apply for NEW CF for renovated units. Same thing.

Yah thats what the banker told me too, they never interested in any CF or architecture plan, they just need S&P, land title, quit rent & assessment.

Even the MPAJ officers keep saying no need CF but if buyer insist ask him get someone and do it.

When you buy a new property from the developer, they only give you the CF during the hand over of keys. They will not be giving out the Architectural drawings.
In the S&P, the drawing attached to the S&P is just a brief outline of the property and are not considered as Architectural drawings as it lacks the detail dimensions.

When you sell the house, all you need is to provide the land title, quit rent & assessment. No need for the Architectural drawings (which you do not have in the first place).
As for the CF, if you have, then pass on; else, the buyer can get from the local authority.
As for the approved renovation drawings and CF, I did not give them to the buyer when I sold off my house. Although the buyer's lawyer asked for them, I told my lawyer that I have lost them. The buyer's lawyer did not ask for them anymore after that.

Some banks need a CF to approve a loan, some banks don't. Because in a foreclosure, again, some bidders might ask fot the CF and some don't, this is the reason.

Architectural drawings are needed for an architect to draw-up the renovation plans for approval by the local council. Without the architectural plans, we must engage another architect to draw the existing plan for approval first, get it approved, and subsequently, draw the renovation 'on top' of the approved architectural drawing.

Both documents must be kept at the local council. If the local council has LOST them, then this is a very big issue, in which case, they can always say your house has no CF, and no building approvals.

If the local council has LOST the plans, there is no need to go back to the earlier architect, for there is NO RECORD of the earlier architect. Any architect, whi is registered with LAM (for Malaysia) can be engaged. If the ruling is that the original architect must be used, then the owner is being cornered here, and something fishy is up.

I need not say the rest.

This post has been edited by Hansel: Sep 17 2011, 03:13 PM

I am facing same problem.

buyer insisting to get the CF and approval from majlis for previous renovation. We lost it but we have a photo taken during renovation time to show that it was previously obtained. we are going the xtra step to request from majlis to extract the previous approval but buyer doesn't wanna sign until extraction is successfull.
very annoyed

Buyer request for CF (or CCC) may not be due to S&P requirement, but others reason(s). It applies to newly built or renovated house.

1. CF (or CCC) gives certainty the house was completed according to the Street, Drainage & Building Act and to the Uniform Building By Law. It means that the house is not illegal. Certificate of Fitness for Occupation (CF) or Certificate of Completion and Compliance (CCC) also means the house is safe and fit for occupation. Imagine buying a car without safety certificate. (Safety Issue)

People think nothing of it since the house stood for so long and they assumed all existing houses have CF/CCC except they were lost. The house could have been built by someone without sufficient building knowledge, without proper design and not supervised by building professional, how do you know there won't be any issue in the future just because there was no problem before? Who will you look for if by then you want to claim damages and without the CF how to win? (Safety Issue)

Recently a friend shared with me a case whereby the house was completed 10 years ago but no CF because the process was never followed through after plan was approved. Imagine the scenario whereby no plan was ever submitted thus no CF - buyer of house has to pay 10x or 20x submission fee as penalty if the local authority imposed it. (Safety & $$$)

Even if the original house's CF/CCC is available, many house has undergone renovations. So does those renovations come with approved plan and CF/CCC too? If none, then the authorities' enforcement staff may come anytime to disturb owners - at that time owner or buyer have to kaotim or legalise the house alteration/addition which would involve fine, submission fee and consultant fee (cost $$$) Also, imagine buying car with kereta potong parts attached but never sent to PUSPAKOM for inspection, will you buy that car?

2. House with CF/CCC enables an owner the fetch a better selling price or bargain for better price compared to a house without one.

3. House or part of house without CF/CCC may not be covered by building insurance. Why would insurance company want to cover fire for illegal house?

Say I want to buy a land with a single-storey bungalow on top of it, the house was bought from a developer 50 years ago without being given CF. The house has title. If I buy this property, the whole single-storey bungalow will have to be gone (demolished) and rebuilt into a 2 storey bungalow. My question is, will that be a problem that I will run into any issue rebuilding the house in the future. My lawyer told me without CF DBKL might now even approve a permit for demolition let alone rebuilding.

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This post has been edited by clovercliff: Feb 27 2022, 01:18 AM

Firstly, you need to determine the status of the land from the title. Do you have a copy and to upload here. It could still be under agri status.

Any local authority can order land owners to demolish illegal structure on the land constructed without approval or they proceed to do after the order expires and so are 'private' structures on govt land.

Generally, I do not see the reason why DBKL should not allow the demolition if it was first built without cf and to rebuild with proper approval for safety reasons.

Otherwise, land owners can just build without fear knowing the authority cannot give a demolition order. Your terrace neighbour can then build a 5sty.

However, DBKL can allow demolition but may not approve the rebuilding if the whole development then did not complied with their guidelines....the reasons why CF wasnt issue.

Maybe, you want to check the neighbouring units to confirm what I mentioned or is it just that unit without CF.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Feb 27 2022, 11:30 AM

The following are my understanding :-

1) Certificate of Fitness (CF) - this document is issued by local council to the developer upon completion of project in compliance with all the local authorities requirements ( Road & Drainage, TNB, IWK, Water Supply, Bomba, Telecommunication, Earthwork & etc). Before year 2007, it was known as CF. After year 2007, it is now known as Certificate of Completion & Compliance (CCC). Without the CF / CCC, the MOT or Land Title cannot be issued / completed, means there will be condition precedent ( CF / CCC is pre-requirement before the title can be issued).

2) If you intend to rebuild the house, you only need to engage a Architect to carry out the plan submission to the DBKL with your title. Demolition plan & new building approval is the scope to be carried out by the Architect/ Registered Drafter / C&S with PCPE. Look for the correct group of professional to give advise.

The whole garden (albeit not big, probably 50 houses) were not given CF by the developer, as I've been told. They went to DBKL to file for lost CF but unfortunately DBKL can't find any copies as they only keep copies for 7 years. Anyway, architect has mentioned no issue as neighbors are all rebuilding their houses. Maybe take longer time to get the permit done. Thank you for answering


Yes, you're right. My architect just confirmed this. Thanks for clearing my doubt

eh, do we ever get a copy of CF?
is it during the last/final dispersement of loan?

During vp. Request from developer.

Meaning must pay under counter ?

Why buy something when things are uncertain ? So many properties available in the market and I am sure you can find another suitable or better unit.

If one buy without knowing, is forgiveable. But to buy and knowing some 'problem' is ......... ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 7 2022, 09:18 AM

It should be know as Borang F - signed by the Architect. Yes, it should be during the final release of loan to the developer.

Hi everyone, first home buyer here, would like to check if the CF or architecture drawing or electrical drawing will be included in the sales and purchase agreement, haven't signed yet.

The house is still under construction, asked the agent for the architecture drawing, was told to refer to the brochure drawing.

Is this right ?

usually no. and the company usually refuse to give it out.

CF - it is a condition for the 2nd final claim. So the architect will submit a copy to lawyer, and CC to you.
so we normally have it, and can request if it miss CC to us.

Achi drawing and electrical drawing - no, it is not part of SnP. From my experience with Sunway and IJM, > you can purchase it , as recall 200 Rm or so.
but is that of much use? normally not use for legal/buy sell proceeding. For renovation yes but contractor can do magic and been surviving all this while without any plan.
of course with plan will make their life much easier.

sometimes what is in the drawing is not how the electrician wired it.