She's only a force in pubs.
Solution : Oracle or wards. 400 gold totally negates her.

Akali cannot kill in 1 burst, unlike LeBlanc or Morgana. Akali kills you in 2-3 bursts. How does it happen?

1. Shadow Dance, Mark, Auto Attack to trigger Mark, Crescent Slash (Burst 1)
2. Twilight Shroud and wait for cooldown.
3. Shadow Dance, Mark, Auto attack to trigger Mark (Burst 2)
4. Repeat step 2-3.

What are her weakneses?

Step (2). All her nukes are melee range, she has no HP and she can do nothing if all her skills are in CD. Twilight Shroud's invisibility fixes this problem for her. Remove this, and she is a low HP mage sitting within melee range of you with all her spells on CD for 4 secs. A lot of champions she targets can kill her in those 4 secs.


She can heal if I start attacking her with Spell Vamp!

No she can't. Her spell vamp and spell vamp items have been nerfed to hell because of 2 champions, Vladimir and Mordekaiser. The problem isn't Spell Vamp itself, but her Energy pool. She only has a set pool of 200 Energy the entire game. The first burst when she dives in presumably at full health will leave her with only 50 Energy. She only has enough for 1-2 more spells at 2nd burst, nothing more.


Akali is weak against teams who know what to do. Very weak.

Yes to Viktor, definitely.

Kayle - Needs a small buff to fill whatever role she is supposed to fill. Right now, she IS her ultimate. Needs a little something extra to give her another dimension.


I think Riot is currently working on Evelynn, and has been for quite a while due to constant feedback from the community. Why is it taking so long? Well, what's worse than a totaly useless Evelynn?

An OP Evelynn. Imagine those running around in pubs!

I agree with this.

That's Nunu's threat card as a tank, and helps him perform his role. It makes opponents focus on him. Dumb Nunus start off every team fight running in and trying to ult. Smarter ones run in and tank, tank and tank some more and the opponents don't dare use all their CCs. It's like he's never going to ult and when they can't hold it anymore and fling the CCs out, thats when the ult hits like a truck when everyone is at half life and their CCs are on CD.

Yesterday I got a case study on why stealth champions look so OP in Normal games.

I played Sona, went bottom lane with AD carry. Zoned out the enemy champions and let my carry take ALL the CS. Problem starts after level 6 when stealth champs start ganking like the farmhouse is on fire. So I call oracles, but what do people do under these circumstances :

1) Buy oracles, stick and try to gank
2) Not buy oracles, stick and try to gank
3) Ignore request, lane and jungle alone. Walk alone.

It's shocking. Support Sona is a poor choice to buy Oracles because she's gold starved and already getting wards. But got it anyway, which makes squishy Sona an even bigger target in team fights. Assassins dive right in and everyone is too focused on beating on the enemy tank.

Didn't end well. But yeah, that's the whole reason stealth looks OP in Normal games.

My Sona build incorporates a Philo Stone first and then a Heart of Gold. Otherwise without that gold income she just drops off mid game. I start the game with the Health Regen component of the Philo Stone as I'm aggressive from level 1 to zone out the opponents. The health regen enables me to commit all my mana to harassment. My lane mate shouldn't get hit, and even if he does I have the Heal summoner spell.

There's no reason to play Leona now....hate Riot for this, because Leona V2 just arrived.

Nautilus. Has everything Leona has, and does it better. Side by side comparison :

Passive :
Staggering Blow vs Sunlight

First attack stuns and deals extra damage versus a debuff that can only be triggered by allies for damage, and is applied by spells, not auto attacks. The stun wins it, the auto attack application makes it an epic win.

Winner : Nautilus.



Dredge Line vs Zenith Blade

Both represents a jump skill. Difference is, dredge line is a half pull making it better for chasing. Dredge Line also wins in utility because of the ability to pull to terrain while Zenith Blade can't. CD Reduction after a successful pull is just the cherry on the cake.

Winner : Nautilus



Titan's Wrath vs Eclipse

Shields. Eclipse isn't a proper shield, it just raises your AR/MR so you still take damage. Titan's Wrath IS a proper shield based on HP %. Damage component-wise, Eclipse is immediate while Titan's Wrath grants DoT.

Winner : Nautilus



Riptide vs Shield of Daybreak

Riptide is an AoE slow and damage while Shield of Daybreak is a single target stun and damage. Both shine under different circumstances. But I'll give this to Leona coz I love stuns.

Winner : Leona



Depth Charge vs Solar Flare

Stun and knockup ultimate that is best targetted at the furthest target behind the tank. Useful for chases or to use on the furthest target in a group to knockup the entire group. Solar Flare also is a stun, but the 1.5 sec delay and the small stun area (100 units) makes for poor utility.

Winner : Nautilus



I'm not bringing up Leona's piss poor auto attack animation speed and movement speed. Some ranged heroes hit faster than Leona. Caitlin for one, her attacks land faster than Leona's if triggered at the same time. From what I've gathered this was intentional to prevent Leona from being another jungling tank.

This post has been edited by statikinetic: Feb 17 2012, 08:49 PM

Playing on Gayrena.

TeamSpeak FTW! I saw a LYN channel in TeamSpeak, not sure if any of the folks here are on it.

I'll reply to this specific portion.

You need to know that the majority of pub players aren't good, but think of themselves as gods. When losing, they will blame everyone but themselves. Before committing yourself to criticism, identify the source. If your team is losing and they start playing the blame game, it's rage comments so ignore it. Good players will tell you if you start to do things wrong, and tell you exactly why. "Noob Lee Sin never jungle" is a rage comment, ignore it. Also, accept the fact if you're solo queue-ing that you WILL get bad players on your team. Just do your best.

Second, does the fact that you got your items faster than any tanker mean anything? I see you built Warmogs, so what is your role if there already is a tank on your team? If there are already tanks and ADs on your team, they might expect Lee Sin to fill in the burst/initiator role. Coming out for ganks and your item composition should reflect this. Atmogs doesn't. But without actually seeing those games, I can't really comment much.

It's all about roles. In some games an off-tank build comes off better, in others a full blown AD is more effective. Sometimes there is a need to change item composition during the game, at lvl 4 it may become obvious we need another tanky champ but by lvl 10 we find we need more damage to win fights.

I don't think warding is purely up to the support to do. Whenever I base and buy stuff, usually I will have a couple of hundred left over. Usually I grab 2 wards irregardless of what role I'm playing. Warding is a team objective and responsibility IMO.

Disclaimer, I'm not a good Lee Sin player so I cannot dispense any champion specific pointers.

No I don't.

But I wouldn't mind losing a few kids and QQers over to Dota2 as it would result in a 'cleaner' community. With all the hype, it's easy to see it happening. Hopefully, those who remain are those who really like the game and want to get better at it.

What Dota2 has now is hype. Yes, hype. Some with beta keys have tried it out and like all games, some liked it and some don't. Those who don't are returning to classic Dota. I like LoL in that certain concepts are well thought out. I like the brush concept and the more team revolving gameplay.

In reply to your other post in the Dota/HoN/LoL thread, I don't feel the devs are neglecting the community nor are the imbalances very evident in LoL. No matter how you balance a game, there will ALWAYS be people screaming about this hero being OP or that hero being totaly useless. It's human nature. Give everybody what they want today so they are happy and I bet tomorrow someone will find a reason to b****.

In regards to the new champions like Ziggs, I feel he is perfectly balanced. Good poke, nice nuke but squishy and a hard to use utility spell. Like all mages, deny him blue buff and he becomes manageable. I too have issues with Riot on certain champs to be buffed/nerfed, but it is normally on champions I usually use so some level of personal interest comes to the frame.

5 sunfires on Eve for max trolling

I ain't got no visible ELO yet coz my summoner profile in gayrena hasn't reached lvl 30. Foreveralone.jpg.

Been spamming Leona in normal games the past few days. If you see a Leona again in your game tonight....might be me!

This post has been edited by statikinetic: Feb 23 2012, 10:40 AM

I think it's fine unless he intentionaly does it to troll.

Some people play for leisure, and the 'meta' isn't something that everyone needs to conform to. Honestly, playing a hero where you have to give your lanemate all the CS loses its appeal to the casual gamer.

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Added on February 24, 2012, 10:36 amNever played him. Is he still viable?


This post has been edited by statikinetic: Feb 24 2012, 10:36 AM

Looking at your build, you're more tanker than attacker so I would say FoN. Not to mention the HP regeneration amd movement speed boost is very nice and compliments Mundo's innate abilities.

Wits End....I only buy it on certain heroes. Like Kayle, part of my tank shredder build. Speaking of Kayle, I have the battleborn skin but I really want Judgement Kayle skin.

This post has been edited by statikinetic: Feb 24 2012, 12:26 PM

Wouldn't QSS be a more viable, cheap item for AD Sion? Provides MR and synergizes with the your lifesteal ult as it removes CC. Or maybe Banshees?

Becaue if you get ganked, you won't have the MR of Wits End without first hitting 4 times and have all the spells dumped on you.

This post has been edited by statikinetic: Feb 24 2012, 12:47 PM

Just thinking that Wit's End could be replaced for something better for what it does. It gives :

1) Attack Speed. Always good for AD heroes.
2) Magic Damage. Doesn't match Sion's kit. He revolves around lifesteal and rune setup would probably have ArPen, so physical damage would be better.
3) MR. Situational, 4 hits to activate full stacks.

Just my opinion that Wits End can be replaced with another item for better effect, like Black Cleaver. Attack Speed, Damage and Armor Reduction stacks that will increase damage and lifesteal. For MR, replace Zerk Boots with Merc Boots. Tenacity is a nice addition.

It's the other way round. You only need Last Whisper if all of them start stacking heavy armor. Otherwise Black Cleaver does the job better.

Let's look at the figures.

Black Cleaver removes 45 armor.
Last Whisper provides 40% armor penetration, essentially removing 40% of target's armor.

If your target has above 110 armor, then go Last Whisper.
If not, then Black Cleaver is better.

Why 110?
Because 40% of 110 is 44, still less than the 45 armor reduction from Black Cleaver. So 110 and below, Black Cleaver is more effective by removing more armor. Above 110, then Last Whisper is better.


Wits End provides additional 42 magic damage, which in no way benefits physical attackers. Physical attackers rely heavily on abilities like critical strikes and life steal, both of which remain unaffected by the magic damage generated. IMO, Wits End is best used by on-hit builds which deal the majority of their damage in the magic portion of an auto attack, in conjunction with items like Madreds Bloodrazor.

I do apologize if I'm missing the picture here, but how would it differ?

I can differentiate bruisers from AD Carries, but I don't understand how bruisers and AD carries would differ from my earlier explanation. Thought the previous discussion was on armor reduction item and the viability of Wits End, maybe Currylaksa can help out?

Yes, agreed on Udyr! Wits Ends is pretty much core on Udyr.

Great to see a theoratical discussion going on. Wairai, can you explain this portion?

Black Cleaver charges in 3 hits. The main differential between Last Whisper and Black Cleaver should be the amount of armor the target has.

This post has been edited by statikinetic: Feb 24 2012, 03:27 PM