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 Public Mutual v3, Public/PB series funds

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Malformed
post Apr 24 2012, 04:46 PM

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Hello xuzen,

Good to hear someone reading the CASHFLOW Quadrant. I have read it and about to finish the book, but I have yet to begin the 7 steps he had written at the end of the book. Then today I came across this post - which made me thinker. Although I know that it a writer may be writing all sorts to be a bestseller, CASHFLOW Quadrant indeed has shone light to me, so I decided to continue his guidance despite what others say about him. I just came out to work but I do want to start early in moving to the right side of the quadrant.

How old were you when you read the CASHFLOW Quadrant? I am buying funds from PM, but I am investing in a recommended fund as a start. I don't know how well did it perform, or determine how well will it be able to perform, but I believe it is a good start to get involved. What do you think?

This post has been edited by Malformed: Apr 24 2012, 04:46 PM
Malformed
post Apr 24 2012, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Apr 24 2012, 06:59 PM)
Now lets get down and dirty to the mathematics section: I will not explain all the terms here as I assume you can google them.

1) Look through your assets. Look at their past return, lets take 3 years, now, annualized their return. You may take 5 years or whatever years, but my data is 3 years only. So I'll stick with three years. Remember to take the annualized return and not the absolute return.

2) Now, do a standard deviation calculation of your assets return. Formula = [(Sum of [individual rtn - mean rtn]^2)/n]^1/2. If you want to use Semi-deviation instead of standard deviation, then count only the assets which have a rtn below the mean instead of all points. But the n remains the same.

3) Now you would have a return and her corresponding standard/semi deviation.

4) To calculate risk adjusted performance (aka Modigliani^2 ratio) = [(Rtn of your portfolio - Risk free rate)/Stan-Dev of portfolio] X Stan-Dev of benchmark + Risk Free Rate. NB: I used KLCI as my bench mark and One year FD in local bank as my risk free rate.

5) Value at Risk is given by the formula = Mean Portfolio Rtn + (zeta x Stan-Dev of portfolio) where zeta is taken as -1.64. The assumption is that zeta is -1.64 for a normal distribution curve at 95% confidence level.

Don't ask me more about this zeta value, I just take it as gospel truth from my lecturer, I am a pragmatic person, therefore I am not so concern for its theory and how zeta is derived.

WongMK, wrt you belanja me makan, not necessary, as long you think what I say is useful and is not bullocks and as long as other who are interested about personal investing find my post useful for them, that is reward in it self. Beside, I am not living in Klang Valley. Very far from it.

Xuzen


Added on April 24, 2012, 7:04 pm

If you do not do any financial analysis of your fund, how could you confidently answer this. As usual, we can never predict how it will perform in the future.

That is why there are so many ratios and theory made by the financial gurus to measure and mitigate the risk but not the return.

Please note that in most of this theories/ratio, the risk is more important than rtn.

As one famous investor puts it (can't remember who): Take care of the risk, and the profits will take care of itself.

But as a start, buy The Edge weekend newspaper, look at the Normandy Fund Table and choose the fund that has high Sharpe Ratio... that can be a good start.

Happy investing, Malformed.

Xuzen
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It was a recommended fund by a relative of mine. He told me many things but I couldn't absorb everything in one shot. So I put my money in, and let the game begin.

Can I choose to look at The Edge online rather than the newspaper? Though I searched in the website to find Normandy Fund Table and got lost. I will look for The Edge this weekend, thanks for your advise.
Malformed
post Apr 24 2012, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Apr 24 2012, 09:35 PM)
My rebuttals are as follows:

1) LTCM is a hedge fund. Hedge funds tend to be illiquid. Why Sharpe ratio failed in those scenarios are already explained in the links you provided, so I need not elaborate.

2) Sharpe ratio when used to evaluate plain vanilla unit trust is still ok, because the unit trusts' assets are equities and they are highly liquid. Furthermore, the funds move in tandem with their respective benchmark. Hedge funds usually have no benchmark to compare with.

3) Another point I want to highlight wrt Sharpe ratio is that it can only be used to compare within assets of similar class. For example, bond funds tend to have very high Sharpe ratios, do that mean we put all our money into a bond fund? No, because a Sharpe ratio is only meaningful when compared with assets of similar class.


Added on April 24, 2012, 9:37 pm

Give me the name of the fund and let me run some numbers before I comment further.

Unfortunately, the Normandy Table is only available in the Print format (The weekend version, not the daily one).

Xuzen
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It is PB AUSTRALIA DYNAMIC BALANCED FUND (PBADBF), my relative advised me to invest in Public Mutual as a start. If I were to save 300 a month, 3.6k a year, it would be 36k in ten years, plus the annual interest rate. But I am still wondering what if the NAV gone down.. and a Public Mutual Unit Trust Manager told me that although the funds will go up and down, it will eventually break even, for example if this year it drops, the following years to come will get back up, thus monthly investment.

Forgive my naivety sweat.gif
Malformed
post Apr 25 2012, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(kparam77 @ Apr 24 2012, 11:56 PM)
no interest rate in UT. its call distribution(if any) frm the total returns.

u opt for monthly regular investment (DDI), where u get less unit for higher price and vise versa.
by this method u will accumulate units over the time without worry abt market trends. ur average cost per unit shud be cheaper than market price to make profits.

buy cheap sell high = profits

also, if u opt for re-invest the distribtuions(if any), u will accumulate more units (because u r buying more units using ur distribution amount without SC), and it will help u for cheaper average cost per unit.

the returns in UT depends on price (NAV)  movement, not the inretest/distribution.

go to how to calculate UT in my signature for better understanding waht i mean.
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I'm not sure, but the Manager gave me a piece of calculation and it is written Annual Interest Rate, once I get home I'll see what is it called again. Maybe it is called distribution as what you mentioned; by calculating the interest I get in percentage, then divide by the NAV so what I get is more units.

So basically the method I am following is called DDI? My goal is to prevent my money from sitting in the savings account and earn more somewhere else, that is why my relative has suggested this to me.

Sorry but what is SC icon_question.gif . I have planned to continue what I am doing for a year, and read more before I actually move into switching funds or buying funds that I think will profit to 'make' a profit which will be a big lost in the game if I knew nothing.

Can't visit blog websites, will keep in mind when I get home. notworthy.gif

QUOTE(xuzen @ Apr 25 2012, 09:39 AM)
Sorry, this is probably a new fund. I don't have the proper data to calculate it.

The one which I have data, I can tell you that PBAREIF (PB Asia Real Estate Income Fund) is a winner.

For PBAREIF, its 3 year annualized rtn is 20.39% p.a where the 12.00% rtn is due to the effort of the Fund manager (Jessen-alpha rtn or excess rtn over the benchmark) and the Risk Adjusted Performance is 15.64 as compared to its benchmark of 7.43%. In another word, PBAREIF is a winner. 

A word of caution, do not put all your eggs into one fund. Spread it out across a few asset class. Example, money market, bond, Asia Equities, Real Estate etc.

Xuzen
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Hello xuzen,

Do you keep track of your data in a software?

Although you tell me it is a winner, which I don't want to offend you notworthy.gif but to me is just another fund because I don't know how to calculate. Too many numbers is confusing but Kiyosaki says we have to think with numbers and not feelings laugh.gif , I will try to absorb what you have told me. On calculating, where do you think is good to learn?

Is it a wise action for me, if I were to buy another fund (eg. PBAREIF as you advised) and invest in it every month apart from what I am currently having? Or should I learn to buy low and sell high icon_question.gif ?

QUOTE(cherroy @ Apr 25 2012, 01:34 PM)
An advice from your relative that UT got annual interest rate?  doh.gif
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No, he did not say anything about annual interest rate, he told me to learn investing and suggested me this fund. The annual interest rate was something I got from a Public Mutual manager.
Malformed
post Apr 25 2012, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Apr 25 2012, 02:01 PM)
Woho, a manager said to potential client, UT got annual interest rate?  shocking.gif
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sweat.gif Is dividend the same as interest rate?
Malformed
post Apr 25 2012, 02:48 PM

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cherroy, I have indeed seen a report given by a Manager in PM written as annual interest rate. I have also seen dividend in one of my funds in a letter last year. I thought they both are the same thing.
Malformed
post Apr 25 2012, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(kparam77 @ Apr 25 2012, 05:11 PM)
I think u confuse abt interest rate, dividends and distribution.

Interest rate – given for bank deposits.
Dividends – in EPF / stock/ Koperasi.
Distribution – in UT.

For ur info, initially in UT its call dividends too, lately  the term change to distribution. (Cherroy correct me if I wrong)
Normally UT agent use term dividends for better understanding even though dividends and distribution NOT the same.

That why I ask u to read my blog abt how to calculate the UT for better understanding.

But it is NO way in PM statement says abt dividends.
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You are indeed right, the statement never mention dividend nor distribution but the statement is in fact a distribution (I got more units in total).

QUOTE(cherroy @ Apr 25 2012, 04:36 PM)
Please photoshop or any link that can show UT has written word of UT has "annual interest rate".

I think many did not hear this before, first encounter, very interested to know.   whistling.gif
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I don't mean to disappoint you, it is a photostated A4 paper and I don't have a scanner nor a good camera. But the paper is an example of monthly investment, here goes;

"A monthly investment of RM100 made at the beginning of each month, with interest compounded monthly, accumulates the amount indicated at the respective years."

The above is a statement from the paper and has a table of "Annual Interest Rate" for 3 - 35 years. That's where I got the "annual interest" word from laugh.gif


Added on April 25, 2012, 10:31 pmkparam77, I am going through the blog you suggested but I am stuck at distribution.

You mentioned

Distribution;
RM0.09 declared as Distribution for Public Saving Fund (PSF).


I am cracking my head as to where do I look for the the variable of RM0.09. I was looking at my Interim Statement of Investment where I get the distribution, but nowhere do I see the variable for RM0.09.

Is it found in the Interim Report instead?

This post has been edited by Malformed: Apr 25 2012, 10:31 PM
Malformed
post Apr 25 2012, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(kparam77 @ Apr 25 2012, 11:24 PM)
u can get it from fund review.....  http://www.publicmutual.com.my/LinkClick.a...LY%3d&tabid=248

look at the PSF bottom annual returns for past 10 yrs. look at distribution(sen) for 2010. it's 9.0 sen, meaning RM0.09.
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notworthy.gif I'll continue my calculation and get back here biggrin.gif
Malformed
post Apr 26 2012, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(kparam77 @ Apr 26 2012, 11:46 AM)
ok ok .. i got it now.

its call pocket calculator. its a table/formula for compounding interest where u can use this table/formula to calculate any vehicle which can give compounding returns like FD,EPF, UT and others.

u can take Annual interest rate from the table as annual/average compunded return in UT.

take note: its not abt distribution, its a abt total return in UT.
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laugh.gif Sorry for the misunderstanding. kparam77, in the blog you shared it was not mentioned how do we calculate our Total Units purchased... I'm trying to put the calculations into excel sheet to see statistics easier. Is there any prepared excel sheet that is made for it online?
Malformed
post Apr 27 2012, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 27 2012, 09:04 AM)
Hear ya go.
Added a check with my own units received, just in case - must lar, sharing right info/data mar.
[attachmentid=2811936]
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rclxms.gif Early early open laptop get good news! Thank you both of you biggrin.gif wongmk, do you rely much on the Excel sheet? I'm used to seeing data in excel hmm.gif
Malformed
post Apr 27 2012, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 27 2012, 10:41 AM)
Hi Malformed.
Yeah, i do rely on Excel a lot as i know my weakness - simple logic can get confused when lots of numbers are thrown around, my processing power low mar, thus outsource to Excel lor  laugh.gif

Anyhow, i'm doing this at work (Excel to prove savings, VS comparisons, etc.) thus, it's second-nature to me to "break things down" in Excel to use simple logic on.
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rclxms.gif Me too. I have all my stuffs written in excel, from personal expenses, public mutual to transportation and stuff... It's easier by looking at the tables. But it's hard to understand each calculation for public mutual, nonetheless very important to prevent blind investment that's why I'm putting all the calculations in excel laugh.gif
Malformed
post May 8 2012, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(dewVP @ May 8 2012, 10:02 AM)
Asking of distributions, between bond fund and equity fund. Is the distribution same?

I mean the bond fund distribution will not affect your total investment value. Just the unit. In equity fund, is it the same as bond fund OR it's like share (ie: interest/return)- meaning, even if we CHOOSE not to reinvest the distribution, equity investment value stays the same (which is not in bond fund case).

I'm starting to be a little confused.
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You can "CHOOSE" not to reinvest the distribution?
Malformed
post May 9 2012, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(kparam77 @ May 9 2012, 12:26 PM)
maybank n BSN.
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kparam77, may I know what is SI?
Malformed
post May 30 2012, 03:22 PM

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I'd like to ask, is buying funds online easy for PM? Since I am currently using SI to automate the process, I do not know of the online procedure.
Malformed
post May 30 2012, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ May 30 2012, 03:43 PM)
I can say it is quite easy for me...
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So you no longer go through the UTC right?
Malformed
post May 30 2012, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(kparam77 @ May 30 2012, 03:51 PM)
for existing acc, still need to chosse the tied agent. for new acc, u can choose none.
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How do you derive existing or new account?

I have one fund with UTC A and another fund with UTC B. Are these considered existing account?
Malformed
post May 30 2012, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ May 30 2012, 04:38 PM)
Yup, you're right.
But er.. just a thought ar... even if "no agent" is selected when U invest online via Public Bank or Public Mutual Online, U still bleed 5.5% for equity funds and 0.25% for bond funds.
Thus, why bother with having different "agents" / "no agents"?

In addition, pls keep in mind:
Equity A under Agent 001 CANNOT BE SWITCHED to Equity B or Bond B under Agent 002.
Thus far lar from my experience - i've like 2 accounts from different agents. The rest all under self heheh.

Just a thought  notworthy.gif
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Once again, you have solved my problems. But if I create an online account, which agent am I tied to?
Malformed
post May 31 2012, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ May 31 2012, 08:12 AM)
Hhehe - why ar?

With self-service, my estimated cost of investing into equity funds is about:
a. Cash: 3.4375% (including income tax of 25%) - near the "normal rates" of most fund houses and distributor
b. EPF: 1.6875%  (including income tax of 25%) - beats the "normal rates" of most fund houses and distributor

+ can get access to those nice historic data for monkey-ing around with heheh.

Just a thought  notworthy.gif
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Can I know what is self-service? I'd like to learn how to reduce the charges too!
Malformed
post May 31 2012, 02:48 PM

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Is it easy to go through the procedure? How long would it take?
Malformed
post May 31 2012, 03:33 PM

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Back to the twinvest formula again, it is all about buying, what about selling, is there any formula for us to calculate?

My relative took it back in 2010 too, might as well ask and see how is it like. Is it easy for people without knowledge in this field previously?

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