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 Please help me! I faced a Liar contractor!, Help~

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TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 05:39 PM, updated 15y ago

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Hi,

I hired a contractor to renovate my house..After he has done all the works and I already gave him the agreed fee (I keep 5K and promise him to give him after I have moved in)....Now, he want to request more money from me....

I hate this kind of people...Always promise and promise, later don't want to admit and say different things....want to request money from those he has agreed to do free for me..

I am very angry and I am very afraid If I don't want to give him the money, what will happen to me and what he will act?

Please, give me some advices...

This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 05:40 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 05:42 PM

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First initial quotation got..but at the middle of renovation, I have add-on a lot of things...and those things that he agreed to free to me are not stated in the initial black and white...So the actual renovation fee is more than the initial quotation....and I already gave him all the money, just left 5K.....

This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 05:45 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(wrb7878 @ Jun 30 2011, 05:45 PM)
what thing he do? main contractor? total cost of reno?
how u get this contractor?

i also dont have black and white with my contractor, he have start the work without asking me any deposit too.
*
he did all my wet works like hacking and extension....total cost around 150k...now he said rugi, want to request money for those things that he agreed to free to me...Give out FREE but ask MONEY from me later.....help!!!!!!



This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 05:48 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 05:51 PM

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QUOTE(MissIceRina @ Jun 30 2011, 05:49 PM)
???

the "free stuffs" cost 150k?
*
total cost of renovation is 150K...

now he request around 5K more for those FREE stuffs....

so, 150 + 5 = 155K


like an example, at first he agreed to build a staircase for FREE...after built, he now said rugi, want to request money from the staircase he has built....



This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 05:52 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 05:58 PM

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QUOTE(clanzkiller @ Jun 30 2011, 05:56 PM)
Legally,
There is nothing that he can do to you since is all by verbal and not in writing.
Even he promised to fix the thing for a fee, and no receipt has been issued for acknowledgment, is still FREE. Even in your situation where he promised to fix it for free, and he ask for a fee after that, is still FREE.
*
I know he can't do anything if I don't want to give him money...but I afraid he will destroy my house by hired gangsters...Do I need to report to police first? any other solutions?

please help me...I am very scared....
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(nandayryu @ Jun 30 2011, 05:58 PM)
Slow talk,tell him what u've told n agreed with him,as long as u're confident with ur words,contractor cant beat ur words.trust me
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I try to talk..I tell him, you already agreed to do FREE for me, how come ask money from me...He said, "I know..but now I rugi, you have to pay.."

no matter what I say, he always think he is correct...and always throw away all his responsible and say not his fault....

no way to talk to him..he won't accept what you say...


Added on June 30, 2011, 6:04 pm
QUOTE(michaellee @ Jun 30 2011, 05:58 PM)
Total cost of 150k????? You building a brand new house? Either that or you are a walking water fish and I would encourage the contractor not to take just 5k from you but maybe 10k or more. Honestly in the past I have heard of contractors not being able to get the full sum, you are the first I have heard that the contractor can get more than agreed price.
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I am water fish? he is the cheapest contractor among 10 contractors I compared....luckily he has done all the task and not run away halfway...

the problem is, he don't keep promise....always say different after promised...

please, how to handle this kind of people...

if you are me, what you will do?


Added on June 30, 2011, 6:08 pmfor an example, I don't satisfy his workmanship, so, I ask him to torch up to me...He agreed to torch up for me until I satisfy, after torched up, he said I make him rugi (hire people to torch up for me)...he said my requirement is very high...he won't think his workmanship is bad...he always think other people fault..not his fault....I am not holding knife to force him torch up for me...he agreed to do for me.....if you already agreed, why after done, say different things to me??


This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 06:09 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(michaellee @ Jun 30 2011, 06:17 PM)
What is the extent of renovation we are talking about? Just move in and don't bother with him. I believe if it was me, the contractor would be afraid of me rather than the other way round.
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you won't afraid he will kacau ur house?
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 06:21 PM

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QUOTE(Serofax @ Jun 30 2011, 06:18 PM)
legally, he cant do anythign to make you pay, as no black and white regarding the free stuff. so he was wrong to do it for you without documentation.

on another hand, if you could spend 150k on reno... to save the trouble or fear of him getting gangsters to interfere, just pay him and let him leave.

you'll be lucky if he didnt come back and ask for 10k or more. and perhaps you're already very lucky he didnt run away with your money half way through the reno.

also, the "extras" he did for you, is it really worth 5k?....if yes i suggest just pay him la. sometimes ppl do business also wanna make some money, maybe material price DID increase midway through the reno and cause him to work at a lost.

therefore, like i said...5k, just pay and move on. lesson learnt.
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how come can be like this...if everyone has done the task and said rugi (no proof at all to show he is rugi) and ask money from me, then I die liao....

I hate people who don't keep promises and cakap berbelit-belit....


TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(nandayryu @ Jun 30 2011, 06:19 PM)
Tell him,whether thts out of his calculation or profit,thts none of ur business,what u know is,u agreed with tht price and there it goes,if he insisted to force u,then lodge a police report.
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yes...this is the point..."whether that out of his calculation or profit, that none of ur business"...why I need to take responsible of that....


Added on June 30, 2011, 6:25 pm
QUOTE(bhtan @ Jun 30 2011, 06:22 PM)
I don't understand this.  Either you contractor is the most stupid contractor or the most honest one.  To me, I can't understand the logic of asking RM5k for a total of RM150k job.  This is like, what 3.3%???  If he can't make enough to cover even 3% margin, I am not sure what is he doing.

You should know roughly whether so called "free stuff" really worth RM5k as well.
*
From what he told me, I need to pay additional 5K for those free stuffs...



This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 06:25 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(Frostlord @ Jun 30 2011, 06:24 PM)
the prob is u got no choice now. u r left with 2 options
1) pay what u 2 had agreed on and move in
2) pay him additional 5k

since u r afraid of option 1, u r left with option 2 only
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any other way that I don't need to pay him (because I hate this kind of people) and I won't get kacau....I report police first, can? I know where is his house because I have been to his house...






TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 06:33 PM

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apart from the request money from free stuffs...there is another problem...

I owe him 5K (already promised give him after move in), but he still owe me one task (rebuild two main gate pillars)...

this task already stated in black and white...

So, can I keep the 5K and dont want to give him because he still owe me a task..if i give him, i rugi because i need to hire other contractor do for me..




TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 06:38 PM

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QUOTE(Frostlord @ Jun 30 2011, 06:36 PM)
assuming the task is less than 5k again

tell him to finish it off before talking about $$. if he dun wan, end his contract and get another
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I keep the 5K? He sure will angry....because he can't get 5K(free stuff) + 5K(balance) = 10K


TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(kochin @ Jun 30 2011, 06:55 PM)
my 2 cents.
5k out of rm150k is no big deal. as another bro mention, 3.3%.
besides this, you did mentioned you have requested him to do multiple things. in which one of it included a freaking staircase. am not sure how much an additional staircase would cost but i would have presume it cost quite a fair bit.
tell him to finish the task at hand. tell him you are going to hold the rm5k balance further to check for defect. i did this to all my contractor. a 6 months liability period before i release full amount.
on the additional sum requested, you need to be objective about it. did you add a whole lot of task or requested for a lot of rework? eg. even though bad workmanship, did you pointed out at him during the process or you wait till it's completed and requested for a rework? it makes a lot of difference.
am not saying the contractor is right but if he really did a good enough job for me and did extra of what i requested, i would do a evaluation and top off a little. in fact i think you are lucky that he only requested an additional rm5k.
and before you repeat the statement of you HATE people who do not stick to their word, please bear in mind you also 'lied' to him about the scope of works. you added a whole lot of works and requested it to be done for free.
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1. When I ask him to do multiple FREE things, why he don't just reject me? Why promised and ask money from me later?

2. The workmanship that I mention is wall plastering..he simply plaster without measure for straightness...all bengkok-bengkok...then he blamed the structure problem (also did by him)...He agreed to torch up for me until satisfy...After agreed and done, blame me later..say my requirement very high until he wasted a lot of money on torching...

3. I did nothing to FORCE him do for me for FREE....If he rejects me at that time, I will be more happy than you request money from me afterwards...If I did used knife to force him, I will accept you call me liar....

4. I did tell him I am going to hold the rm5k balance further to check for defect. i did tell him, all my friend hold at least 6 months liability period before released full amount...but he don't agreed...he want us to pay him after painted the house....

thanks for your advices

This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 07:11 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Jun 30 2011, 08:17 PM)
Since u said he is the cheapest, the additional RM 5k for the free stuff is kinda fair, just pay him to avoid getting problems. But.. he might ask for more in the future.

WHen u shop for stuff like buying a Johnson Suisse toilet bowl, Yes u can survey 10 shops and buy from the cheapest shop provided that you are getting the full set and original parts. But for contractors, do not get the cheapest but should get a reliable one. U might get a cheap contractor, they purposely quote u cheap like a RUGI job that no contractors would take. WHen they got the job, they slaughter u slowly, ask for money, reduce the quality, steal ur stuff and etc.

Would suggest forumers to get a reliable LYN contractor. If they do any bad stuff, forumers will write bad about them and they can say good bye to their online biz. PM me if u need some contacts.
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Yes, It is cheapest and what I get also a not satisfy workmanship....for example, when air-con contractor conceal the water pipe on the floor, we all shocked by the floor underground is EMPTY!! a big empty hole without filling any sand or stone!!.. So, I pay cheap price and get cheap quality of work...fair...and I feel that I didn't owe him a cent....all money I paid in prompt....now, want to request money for agreed free stuffs...


Added on June 30, 2011, 8:56 pm
QUOTE(scorgio @ Jun 30 2011, 08:47 PM)
It's just RM5k. Not a huge sum.

Can't blame the contractor sometimes, material price fluctuate & this past month (since the removal of diesel rebate), hardware stuffs went up 10-15% on average.

So maybe now after the contractor did the calculation & found out that he's "not doing" well. He request for additional RM5k, which in my opinion is the cost to make good ur main gate pillars.

Now ask yourself, till now, is his work acceptable to u? U haven't move in, u haven't discover any defects. Nowadays, small job nobody bother to entertain u. U might need to call him back 1 day.

I'd suggest u to pay him a small amount say RM2k, let him finish up all the undone work 1st. Then only u decide what to do next.

No point saying his' a liar or thinking about the consequences of not paying now.
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I don't think he will come back to torch up for me after he received all the money....can you guarantee he won't request money again next time? no ending..because he don't stick to his words and promises...he already broke a lot of promises before....how can i believe him? if he is gentleman from the first time, i sure will give him money without thinking too much....




This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jun 30 2011, 08:56 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jun 30 2011, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(Jo_da48 @ Jun 30 2011, 09:02 PM)
Ed,
I guess you already decided not to give the extra rights? Just tell him you only will get the RM5K (the balance), the rest on own....

But if he does do a good jobs...you may want to consider as extra reward, which may make you feel better...
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Yes..this is the point...If he did a good jobs, and didn't brake promises and cakap berbelit-belit, I sure will give him money happily...

I guess I won't change my mind...just want to know more suggestions...thanks for above forumers' help...




TSedwardsiow
post Jul 1 2011, 06:55 AM

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QUOTE(REEN YONG @ Jun 30 2011, 10:41 PM)
Is your contractor looks like and behave like a ganster or gentleman look? Does he has a family? If he has family and not really look like a ganster then ignore him. Because family man 'normally' they wont do illegal things. If not then maybe u tell him that both party give way and pay him extra 2.5k to solve things out.
*
Is an old man stay with a wife and a child...child also do construction...

I have been visited his house a lot of time during renovation...


Added on July 1, 2011, 7:01 am
QUOTE(chrismic @ Jun 30 2011, 11:16 PM)
Edward,

In my opinion, u shouldn't pay the RM 5K. How would u know that he will not ask u for another 5K again and again and tell u the same reason (rugi). Then u will have the same worry (kacau u, etc.) and it will back to the square again. Very difficult to come to an end.

Tell him that everything have to go as according to what been agreed earlier regardless of written or verbal. He cannot create a story just like that. Can i tell him now i got no money coz i rugi in business, etc and pay him less? How can he quote u a cheap price to get the business and charge u back later? Does it make sense? No need to let him know that he is the cheapest among other contractors u have compared.

Tell him that ur reno budget is very tight. And tell him that u have already spent RM 150K for the reno, over the years, for sure u will need to do some repair & maintenance and for sure u r going to give him more business. Tell him that u have some friends/families that are going to buy house and looking for contractor to renovate their house also and for sure u will recommend him to them. Give him the impression that u intend to work long term with him so don't spoil the relationship with the merely RM 5K. Ask him to just give and take. Tell him to be more professional and for long term, he is going to earn many many RM 5K. Tell him that u have some plan to do some extension for your house, etc but not now coz u need to save enough money first and he will get new business again. So come on lah, why u want to charge that RM 5K to spoil all this. Tell him those extra work is some good service that u expect from a good contractor.

But whether u will work long term with him or not or to give him business or not is another matter.
*
Understand..

I will try to talk to him...He is a stubborn people..hope he will accepet what I have said...

This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jul 1 2011, 07:01 AM
TSedwardsiow
post Jul 1 2011, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 1 2011, 07:10 AM)
TS,

IMHO, you are penny wise pound foolish.

A) You are in no position of negotiating at this moment...  There are some works need to be done.  Until that is done, how could you say no?? If he leave the work undone, can YOU get someone else to finish this for 5K??

B) You change the scope of work and want it done for free.  Now, he is asking for 5K more.. You did not keep your part of black and white but you expect him to do the same???

Do not be penny wise and pound foolish.  Get him to finish the work and pay him the remaining 5K first.  Tell him that you will pay him extra 5K after one month if you find no other problem.

Now, if you mess this up, serve you right...

Life is a 2 way street.  You want something extra from others but you refuse to give something back.  Then, you trying to justify your action by claiming someone else break their promise?? This is NOT RIGHT.  If I know this about you, I will not be interested in dealing with you at all...

Dreamer
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Dreamer,

a) I am not a person who know how to play "tricks" and cakap berbelit-belit...I just know that the final undone work is stated in document previously..

b) Maybe I need to clarify more here..I did change the scope of work and my cost has changed from 110k to 150k..I have paid all the add-ons works without delay any cents..At first, I believe him very much..so, no black & white has been written...I request for quotation on extra tasks and pay during the renovation....then, at the end, I found out that after he has received almost 90% of money, he suddenly changed his behaviour..start broke promises and don't want to admit what he has said before..

example:
On of the task to plastering my fencing..At beginning, he says he buys materials and I pay the workers fee..after one week, he don't admit and want me to pay all including materials and worker fee..what will you feel?

This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jul 1 2011, 10:46 AM
TSedwardsiow
post Jul 1 2011, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(hhaf @ Jul 1 2011, 12:02 PM)
i am agree~!!!!~~~~ my contractor also tell me like that " Nothing is FREE in this world" and if everything want the cheap maybe someone can given but got to compare the quality~~~` sweat.gif  so i also over my budget~  rclxub.gif
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I know that nothing is FREE in this world..I am not ask him to do first later I request for FREE...is I ask for FREE first before he do....

It is like freebie mah...If you buy hood and you get a free sink, later the supplier request you to return the sink, can?

This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jul 1 2011, 12:32 PM
TSedwardsiow
post Jul 1 2011, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(kelvyn @ Jul 1 2011, 01:34 PM)
There is not much difference between

1. whether you ask the contractor to do the additional work for free before he start the additional work; or

2. Asking the contractor to do the additional work for free after he completes them

Both boils down to having the contractor doing the work for FREE.

Be realistic. How do you expect the contractor to subsidies your reno work. Come on. Wake up  biggrin.gif
*
For you maybe the same, but for me is different...anyway, thanks for your advices..



TSedwardsiow
post Jul 1 2011, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(michaellee @ Jul 1 2011, 01:16 PM)
So what exactly is your extension? Honestly RM150k is a lot of money. Put it down in black and white here and we will tell you if the contractor is really pulling a fast one.
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Hard to write down all details here..It is not the cost problem..I have paid 145K for everything which stated in the agreement either written or verbally willingly without owe him a single cent..the balance 5K is to protect myself..no choice..everybody also keep the balance for 3-6 months..

Everything is done after we reached agreement..the only regret is i trust him too much..should written in black and white..


Added on July 1, 2011, 2:46 pm
QUOTE(kelvyn @ Jul 1 2011, 02:39 PM)
that's where your problem lies.. smile.gif
*
A consequence of a matter will result in different ending..

If he don't FREE, I won't do...I can go for other plan..
If he does FREE, I allocate the budget to do other thing..
After no budget allocated for the FREE, he requests money from me..

If you still think both is same, I accept your critizise..


This post has been edited by edwardsiow: Jul 1 2011, 02:46 PM

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