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 PhD vs. Experience, Which come first? Help me to choose one.

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TSShrugsLova
post Jun 3 2011, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Jun 3 2011, 09:48 AM)
the reason for my PhD?

refer to this article:

http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

i just wanna add another dent in the world knowledge. PhD is the only place in the modern world where a mere mortal can leave his mark forever. i mean, we cant build pyramids anymore, can we? lol.
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Let's make more dent.

By the way, where you did your phd azarimy? Mind to share a little about the environment and why you choose your university and what title. It will help me to choose what university I want too. Thank you.
Irzani
post Jun 4 2011, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Jun 3 2011, 09:48 AM)
the reason for my PhD?

refer to this article:

http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

i just wanna add another dent in the world knowledge. PhD is the only place in the modern world where a mere mortal can leave his mark forever. i mean, we cant build pyramids anymore, can we? lol.
*
But to make the contributions forever .. not everyone can make it even with the current professor level ... too many journal that I found already out of date and irrelevant especially in technology sad.gif

But for your area, a lot of physical things can be built for a longer time ... brows.gif

azarimy
post Jun 4 2011, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(ShrugsLova @ Jun 3 2011, 10:40 AM)
Let's make more dent.

By the way, where you did your phd azarimy? Mind to share a little about the environment and why you choose your university and what title. It will help me to choose what university I want too. Thank you.
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university of sheffield.

my phd title is long and doesnt often make sense to those unfamiliar with it. so suffice if i mention that my PhD is in the area of architecture education and the virtual environment. the reason i chose sheffield was that they have a leading expert in architecture education, prof. bryan lawson, which i had the privilege to become his student. at the same time, sheffield is also the top 3 university in architecture in the UK, top 10 in europe. so that puts me right in one of the best university in the world in regards of my field.

QUOTE(Irzani @ Jun 3 2011, 04:24 PM)
But to make the contributions forever .. not everyone can make it even with the current professor level ... too many journal that I found already out of date and irrelevant especially in technology  sad.gif

But for your area, a lot of physical things can be built for a longer time  ...  brows.gif
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well, it doesnt matter if somebody proves it is wrong or obsolete. the point is, at the moment u submit ur work, it fulfills the knowledge gap not known at that particular time. until somebody fulfills that gap, the future researchers cant build new knowledge. so it's either u or somebody else, either way, u will make ur mark in the world. ur work will be reviewed and referred to in order to the future guy to make urs obsolete.

just like designing a PC processor. pentium 4 was replaced with a new model in less than 2 years. but it gave birth to other chips, and eventually the multi-core designs. but it all depends on the predecessors. so it's either u or the other guy. i'd rather it be mine.
duckhole
post Jun 4 2011, 11:31 AM

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dude, just continue to study when you got the chance. a lot of people want to study but no chance.

also, managers/hr people mostly judge on the day of your interview, how you perform instead of looking at your job experience or education. if you perform well during your interview, you will surely get the job even if you are under-qualified for the job.
picfantasia
post Jun 4 2011, 11:42 AM

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I am also an engineer currently. In my field, master and pHd has different branch or so called specialist. So to find out which field you like most, your need to work first then go for the master and pHd in that field. I do not read the front post so i also don't know TS is from which branch of engineering so if your branch do not have specialist then you may go study first as when you doing your pHd you may ask your guidance prof to give you some part time work and you will gain some exp from there. To get PE, you need either working exp 2 year design + 1 year contractual exp or if i not mistaken is 10 years in research. Hope this clear your doubt.

This post has been edited by picfantasia: Jun 4 2011, 11:43 AM
malayantiger
post Jun 4 2011, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(ShrugsLova @ May 29 2011, 11:06 PM)
Thanks, but there is this issue where most employers tend to hire experience employee than phd holders.
Do it in M'sia? I read your post back then in 'Reason to get a PhD'; you strongly recommend ppl to do it oversea not?  biggrin.gif
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Sorry I did not reply earlier. Yes, by all means if you have the chance, do it overseas in the best universities. In UK, look for 'Russell Group' universities. They are the top uni's in the UK who received the bulk of grants for research. So you are likely to get the best researchers and academics there. Furthermore, living overseas is an experience in itself. It will open up your mind and world view.
tester
post Jun 4 2011, 10:25 PM

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I'm from the academia so I don't know how well does this apply to engineering companies, but:

Why do you think that PhD is not an experience in itself? Why do you think PhD holders can't compete with degree holders?

PhD is not just about research but an important training that develops your capacity to solve problems (ie. to think like a scientist/researcher and to come up with ideas/solutions to your problems). From what I have seen, postdocs are generally more capable of completing tasks and solving problems than your average degree holders, there's a clear difference between the way these two perform their tasks. They may not have the work experience when they first came in, but they pick up stuff faster than anyone else, and I believe this has to do with the training they have been through.

Seriously, I have yet to see postdocs that worry about picking up new skills, but rather they concern themselves with how best to approach a problem.

This post has been edited by tester: Jun 4 2011, 10:31 PM
TSShrugsLova
post Jun 5 2011, 01:24 AM

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QUOTE(picfantasia @ Jun 4 2011, 11:42 AM)
I am also an engineer currently. In my field, master and pHd has different branch or so called specialist. So to find out which field you like most, your need to work first then go for the master and pHd in that field. I do not read the front post so i also don't know TS is from which branch of engineering so if your branch do not have specialist then you may go study first as when you doing your pHd you may ask your guidance prof to give you some part time work and you will gain some exp from there. To get PE, you need either working exp 2 year design + 1 year contractual exp or if i not mistaken is 10 years in research. Hope this clear your doubt.
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I already e-mailed IEM and BEM for further clarification. Ir title is important? I thought Ir only useful for Civil Engineering.
By the way, I'm from materials engineering (basically Mechanical engineering major in Material Science) and we do have those branch. Thank you.

QUOTE(malayantiger @ Jun 4 2011, 10:04 PM)
Sorry I did not reply earlier. Yes, by all means if you have the chance, do it overseas in the best universities. In UK, look for 'Russell Group' universities. They are the top uni's in the UK who received the bulk of grants for research. So you are likely to get the best researchers and academics there. Furthermore, living overseas is an experience in itself. It will open up your mind and world view.
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The University of Nottingham is in a Russell Group, there has a campus in M'sia as well; so is that a good choice to do it in M'sia?

QUOTE(tester @ Jun 4 2011, 10:25 PM)
I'm from the academia so I don't know how well does this apply to engineering companies, but:

Why do you think that PhD is not an experience in itself? Why do you think PhD holders can't compete with degree holders?

PhD is not just about research but an important training that develops your capacity to solve problems (ie. to think like a scientist/researcher and to come up with ideas/solutions to your problems). From what I have seen, postdocs are generally more capable of completing tasks and solving problems than your average degree holders, there's a clear difference between the way these two perform their tasks. They may not have the work experience when they first came in, but they pick up stuff faster than anyone else, and I believe this has to do with the training they have been through.

Seriously, I have yet to see postdocs that worry about picking up new skills, but rather they concern themselves with how best to approach a problem.
*
Whoa! +1.. I'm more confident to do my phd now.
fakanetic
post Jun 7 2011, 04:08 AM

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touche
TSShrugsLova
post Jun 11 2011, 09:07 PM

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QUOTE(fakanetic @ Jun 7 2011, 04:08 AM)
touche
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what is that?

The latest offer I got is from USM; nevertheless I'll gone through a year of Msc, if my performance is good, then hopefully within that year, it'll convert to PhD as well.

matt85
post Jun 12 2011, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(ShrugsLova @ Jun 11 2011, 10:07 PM)
what is that?

The latest offer I got is from USM; nevertheless I'll gone through a year of Msc, if my performance is good, then hopefully within that year, it'll convert to PhD as well.
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You getting any funding from USM?
TSShrugsLova
post Jun 12 2011, 03:46 AM

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QUOTE(matt85 @ Jun 12 2011, 12:30 AM)
You getting any funding from USM?
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just a grant provided by my supervisor, not much though.
matt85
post Jun 12 2011, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(ShrugsLova @ Jun 12 2011, 04:46 AM)
just a grant provided by my supervisor, not much though.
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Is it going to be enough for at least 2 years?

I'm asking this because i have friends doing Master in USM too, and funding problems are prevalent. Just letting you know beforehand wink.gif
TSShrugsLova
post Jun 12 2011, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(matt85 @ Jun 12 2011, 11:33 AM)
Is it going to be enough for at least 2 years?

I'm asking this because i have friends doing Master in USM too, and funding problems are prevalent. Just letting you know beforehand  wink.gif
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For Msc, i think there is a variation of 1 year (mixed mode), 1.5 years and 2 years depend on your supervisor. Grant is optional, again, depend on your supervisor. Ya, funding issue are prevalent; that's why it most advisable to find for scholarship.

matt85
post Jun 13 2011, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(ShrugsLova @ Jun 12 2011, 07:40 PM)
For Msc, i think there is a variation of 1 year (mixed mode), 1.5 years and 2 years depend on your supervisor. Grant is optional, again, depend on your supervisor. Ya, funding issue are prevalent; that's why it most advisable to find for scholarship.
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No, im telling you to be exact USM have this funding issue; if you stretch your research beyond 2nd year, you're in for a tough ride.

Tried looking elsewhere?
Irzani
post Jun 13 2011, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(ShrugsLova @ Jun 12 2011, 06:40 PM)
For Msc, i think there is a variation of 1 year (mixed mode), 1.5 years and 2 years depend on your supervisor. Grant is optional, again, depend on your supervisor. Ya, funding issue are prevalent; that's why it most advisable to find for scholarship.
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Just applied MyMaster, you already deduct RM 10K for school fees, and additional 1500 for thesis. And applied other scholarship during that time too. brows.gif
TSShrugsLova
post Jun 14 2011, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(Irzani @ Jun 13 2011, 07:17 PM)
Just applied MyMaster, you already deduct RM 10K for school fees, and additional 1500 for thesis. And applied other scholarship during that time too.  brows.gif
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with MyBrain aka MyMaster, you're not eligible to apply for other scholarship. That's how bad ass this thing is.


Added on June 14, 2011, 12:48 am
QUOTE(matt85 @ Jun 13 2011, 12:43 PM)
No, im telling you to be exact USM have this funding issue; if you stretch your research beyond 2nd year, you're in for a tough ride.

Tried looking elsewhere?
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Ya it's true, cause now every Msc research in USM (if possible) is limited within 1 year (max 1.5 years). With additional 0.5 year for thesis/dissertation writing. Normally those taking 2 years is for part-time Msc; for part-time, normally its for working peoples, hence there shouldn't be any financial problem for those working engineer.

This post has been edited by ShrugsLova: Jun 14 2011, 12:48 AM
avanpiper
post Jun 14 2011, 05:19 PM

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hi there, glad to know you're considering to further ur studies. I was really confused too when I was about to finish my degree, but I've always known that the minimum i want to achieve has got to be Masters. Then, the real headache came when I am eligible to go straight to PhD and skip masters. I'm studying in UKM btw. And my lecturer asked me to go for it, skip masters.I was afraid to do PhD, basically because I've heard experiences from people basically, like how it's really tough and all. And considering how I'm just a fresh undergrad, straight to PhD level, I was skeptical of my own abilities.

My parents and family supported me. They were like "since you have the chance to further till PhD, why not? There are lots of people who want to but due to circumstances, they can't." But of course, they told me in the end, it's really up to me. Whatever choice I made, btw Master and PhD, they'll still support me. In the end, I kinda leave it to fate lol...I just tried to apply for it and if I get the offer, then I'll go for it. That's not a really good idea though. I think for people to study PhD, they really have to think whether or not they like that certain field. Because imagine spending 4-5 yrs on that particular field, it's going to take up a lot of effort. I was advised about that fact too. Anyways, I'm now a first sem PhD student working in Microbiology field (leaning towards Molecular Biology though). Sometimes I did kinda wonder why I take the hard way especially when I have troubles with my research. But I'm trying to keep my mind positive and never give up. Hope it pays off when I finally graduate.

Oh btw, I wasn't ready to enter the work force after degree so it was definitely furthering my studies in my case. I'm also getting MyPhD scholarship atm. My father was a bit reluctant coz there's 5 years bond to it. I was too coz I don't wanna be tied to the gov after this, however...since my lecturers are calling us to apply for scholarships, we have to xD (coz if not, they have to pay you allowances from the grant, and the grant is precious). Just got my money few weeks ago, it was pretty delayed though, about 3 weeks after my coursemate got it and to think we're from the same uni, studying the same course. But I gotta pay back my allowances to my lecturer for the past 6 months. Anyone knows how to check the statement for MyPhd? Coz they never give us a statement to clarify which month are they paying. For example now, I don't know the money they gave covers how many months.


Hope everything turns out well for you! icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by avanpiper: Jun 14 2011, 05:21 PM
sheng88
post Jun 15 2011, 10:39 PM

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If you have no interest in PhD then don't bother enrolling. It will be a 3-4 years or probably longer journey of mental torture.

And if you are really serious about pursuing a career in research after PhD, I would not bother enrolling in local unis for obvious reason. Try NUS/NTU or overseas universities.

I am not familiar with UK universities but Australia universities are offering research scholarship for international students (IPRS , UIPA). IPRS is government sponsored scholarship but managed by the respective universitiy. As far as I know, UNSW and Melb uni has it but my bet is the G8 uni are all offering it.

Good luck.
TSShrugsLova
post Jun 16 2011, 11:36 PM

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I'm planning to do it locally, ya, there might be 'saying' that oversea is better (I can't deny it is) but I do believe when it come to the end, performance is what matter. That's what I been telling myself; comfort/lies?...i not so sure now.

P/S: My financial status doesn't allow me to go oversea; even with scholarship.

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