Ultras Malaya development was accelerated after AFF Cup because of the better information dispensation about their struggle by the media. Pockets of loyal Malaysia supporters has always been available everywhere but the AFF Cup helped to ignite connection between them forming a large entity and drawing new recruits as we see today.

To say that they only support Malaysia after, and because of the AFF Cup would be totally un-fair and baseless..

and the difference between crowd of vs Indonesia and vs Hong Kong have nothing to do with the ultras. If anything i see the ultras crowd grew bigger..

i think they are better than those foreign club supporters because i truly think that in the end of the day, supporting your own REAL representative is always the best thing. And better late than never.

You last quote "i truly think that in the end of the day, supporting your own REAL representative is always the best thing. And better late than never."

That's is the best point. BETTER LATE THAT NEVER OR NOTHING CHANGE

You sure do go to a lot of English team matches. How about those friendlies versus China, Maldives and Zimbabwe? Did you go? .. well the ultras did..

i do agree with McQueen about the Moktar Dahari quote. Aligning his image with the spirit of the quote is one thing.. but saying that that was his original quote is baseless altogether.. i hope people stop doing that..

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Added on May 25, 2011, 6:45 pmthank you bro for laying out the points , i was also thinking about the same things, but he is clearly trolling and not interested with proper exchange of opinions.

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Added on May 25, 2011, 6:48 pmanother movement started after 2007 worth to mention is Harimaumalaya.com community. This is a site for moderate fans exchanging info and opinion and was a breeding ground for ultras malaya before they decided to be separated as they grew more extreme.

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Added on May 25, 2011, 6:53 pmactually the problem with our football is the other way around. Politicians feeding the coffers of our football industry which left it incapable to fend for themselves.

There are many ways for politicians to earn easy money. Football is not one of them. What i know of politician/football leaders in Perlis, Kelantan and Pahang spent their own money to keep the team afloat. Though i will not speculate what is the source of "their own money"...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: May 25 2011, 06:53 PM

actually u mis interpret my point. or probably i don't lay it properly. actually my point is, even though it's just a friendly match and play during weekdays how can be a such different number of crowds? in the good old days of Mokhtar, Santokh & Dato Soh Chin Aun we can hardly see any stadium as empty as that for a international friendly standard. It definitely has nothing to do with Ultras.

i never doubt bout Ultras since i joined them n sing most of the chants together at the curva and Hakim. in fact, i love the revolution they bring to our local football scene.

your "better late then never" is void. It's not about time. by default, which countrymen hate his own country? there is no such thing. u might hate the politicians, leaders, rulers, government & such but a normal human being will never hate his own country. It's not they never supporting, they just stop supporting. they got fed up.

This post has been edited by hidzwan: May 25 2011, 07:32 PM

Looks like we're going to revisit this argument.

Before you question someone's patriotism and isolate them by indirectly labelling them as 'traitors', try to understand them/us. Is your intention really to unite Malaysian fans or ostracise those who are 'beneath' you? Will labelling yourself as the better fan make everyone else any more patriotic? Instead of understanding those of us who aren't as patriotic and encouraging support, you choose to cast us aside. Yup, excellent effort in pulling everyone together. Well done.

Now why aren't we as patriotic? To comprehend this, you first need to read the news (foreign and local), and next, you need empathy. If you have neither, don't even bother reading the rest of my post. You need to understand why some people feel oppressed and 'abandoned' by their nation. Do you? I was singing loud and proud when we won the Thomas Cup back in 1992 at Stadium Negara with fellow Malaysians. In the years that followed however, I've been called a 'pendatang'. I've been threatened by a Keris wielding loon who wants to bathe it in my blood. People say that unrequited love is the worst thing you can feel. Let me say that loving a nation that doesn't love you back feels the same. So now, you want to question my loyalty? You want to claim that you are better than me? Until and unless you can truly understand my POV, and I doubt many can if recent history is anything to go by, and you can say it all doesn't bother you then yes, you are better than me.

Now some admit that the sport needs to be rid of politicians. So then, will showing up in droves force them out? Yes unconditional support may be one hallmark of a patriot. If you ask me though, sometimes it's better to be cruel to be kind. Why do you think there were protest votes during the last elections? Why did people take to the streets during BERSIH? Because they hated the country? I grow weary simply because I doubt some people's ability to comprehend opinions other than their own.

prove to me than u went to most of the malaysian matches (unless u're from sarawak or not around Klang Valley cannot help la)

here's the thing. while most of u trying to be so defensive of "we wear united/liverpool/chelsea shirt, but our heart still remains supporting malaysia"

the reality is, hardly the same group of people are the one who visits local football stadium.unless some big match or final/semifinal.

showing up to the game is the most basic thing (assuming wearing the NT kit is too hard for u)

malaysia vs uzbek, AFC qualifying (competitive match) tix less than rm20



and this alone is for MU TRAINING session.not 4pm before final AFF.

may i ask, where's your loyalty ? where's your patriotism?

for me, action speaks louder than words

u can spent 70 bucks on astro for sports channel
u can spent 3am on weekdays for champions league

but only showing up for final? there goes loyalty

This post has been edited by nanamiwashio: May 26 2011, 12:13 PM

Do you even understand what I posted? You have completely missed my point. You are asking me to prove my loyalty when I've clearly spelt out why I am no longer loyal. Do try your best to comprehend posts before replying.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 26 2011, 12:20 PM

yup i miss out ur point.



instead of arguing why ultras never understands u...try to understand what's ultras at the first place.


the only thing i knew, ultras is 20x bigger than previous years.

so who understands who? it's all about u want it or not.

Who is arguing with the ultras? I have nothing against them and I admire their support but I do not share the same sentiment for reasons given in my earlier post. When have I ever had a bad thing to say about the ultras in this thread or in any other thread? I don't know if you keep up with current events but I can't force you to read. As it is most football fans don't even read about their own club and I don't expect them to read about anything else. If even you do visit the "real world issues" forum, you'll get a better idea.

When you see empty seats in our national stadium, what does it mean to you? That more and more Malaysians are less patriotic? That they are glory hunters who only support more fancy foreign sides? I'll tell you what I see. I see more and more Malaysians getting fed up of being fed lies by politicians who only care about feeding their own coffers. I see more and more Malaysians getting sick and tired of being manipulated by the powers that be, who tell us we don't belong to this nation. As much as you want to separate the national team from politics, they are intertwined. Someone mentioned earlier that a group of hardcore fans were disbanded because they wanted politicians out of the scene. Kudos to them.

the problem in football, u do not get fed up.
do u get fed up with liverpool owners problem? No ? yes?
when was the last time u won epl?
u obviously underachieved (no offence, talk abt reality ok?)...then what makes u so "loyal" to the club?
mind to share it with me?

do manchester united's fans get fed up with the glazers trying to "buy" more money at their beloved club? No ? Yes?

the best way to protest is go to stadium and show it.

i myself was not happy when ultras decided not to go to the epl festives. they shud be there and show protests like previous days.

oh ya, black parade DID go to the stadium to show their protest. not end up at home to show their dissatisfaction
in politics, ppl go OUT to show how unsatisfied they are with the government. not at home


the problem with malaysian, they did no go out (to stadium) it's simply because of they did not watch the local game

that's the only problem mates.

selangor, 2 seasons on top. still so hard to fill up the stadium. why? fans dissapointed they din won the asian ch league?
kelantan, it's not like they won ALL the cup in Malaysia.
stadium = full why? politics?

ya Tan Sri Annuar Musa is a politician. talk politics alot in his fb about BN when we clearly knew kelantan is a PAS state.
problems? NONE
loyalty? FULL

Yes, Liverpool fans got fed up. Yes, Manchester United fans got fed up. My uncles sold his shares in protest of the Glazers taking over. Fans boycotted matches (google search). Yes, I still supported the club because of what it represents (YNWA, Shankly and all that). Why don't I support the national side anymore? Because I don't like what it represents (all the things I mentioned earlier about being treated like a second class citizen which I don't expect you to understand).

In any case, why are you even comparing my support for my club side? I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm saying I don't support the national team anymore because of political reasons, not because I like my club side more.

You can't compare my views on politicians with the views of others because fact of the matter is we obviously have very different opinions. My opinions are based on extensive reading which is why I said in my first post that unless you do read about politics and the going ons in the country, you won't be able to relate or understand my point of view. If you like the politics in the country and like what it represents, then good for you. I don't.

Tan Sri Annuar Musa is a politician but he isn't bleeding the state football team dry. He's commercialising the team and bringing in money. He brought in HAPPY Pra-bayar as sponsors. He's invested in youth. They have about 300 kids in the academy and they have an elite team. He looks into the interest of KAFA and therefore, The Red Warriors. He looks to subsidise ticket prices for fans. I don't see any other state side doing the same.

Again, I don't know how much you read into politics but obviously I have different views from you. If you absolutely love the ruling coalition, that's your choice. You don't see me criticising you for it. I'm merely defending my right to an opinion and I assure you, my opinion is more informed that you may think. If anything, I don't support anything blindly.

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Added on May 26, 2011, 1:37 pmAgain, I don't care anymore. I thought I made that clear and I thought I stated why? I don't care enough to protest like the Black Parade so there is no point in comparing. If you want to criticise me, do so for not caring, and not for not protesting. Now, why don't I care? Explained earlier.

Yes some people go out, some burn themselves them protest. I vote.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 26 2011, 01:37 PM

so its all politic all over again..... i dont like the politic in this country, so i wont get involve in any activity to change this country.....

crap

so there is a 'good' politician after all? They way you generalising and lumbling all the negatives in the world into one thing, i kinda suprised to read that you elaborate on a good side of a politician...

for me, when i say i love Malaysia, it does not meant i love the ruling government. Far from it actually. My love for malaysia does not put on hold every 4 years pending election results...

Malaysia is a symbol that transcends politics or anything else. Its about the air that we breath. The sun that bakes our skin every afternoon. The sad and joy. the tears and the laughter. A place we can called ours. Its about you and me. Its a about us... when i say i loyal to Malaysia, political parties hardly cross my mind, .. i loyal to "us"..

you might not understand that as i hardly can hardly put it into words myself.. but that is the reason i am immune to problem that effects your patriotism...
i dont put the problems above the symbol.

when Chain Fong Ying or Pandalela Renong won medals in the Asia Games.. i dont think they do it in the name of the keris wielding dude...

problems are there to be solved.. not to be left behind to fend by themselves...

than i guess it's right for me to argue abt your patriotism when u clearly stated u dont care anything happens around you.

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Added on May 26, 2011, 2:02 pmthis is a full of win.

This post has been edited by nanamiwashio: May 26 2011, 02:02 PM

I like this post. Very well written and valid argument. Hope to read more from you, it might open me and others mind.

This post has been edited by Angel of Deth: May 26 2011, 02:14 PM

in any case, lets narrow down the scope of our discussion to the match and jerseys color..


i have discussed with the people at harimaumalaya.com and they have agreed to promote a location in ther stadium for all yellow shirted people can sit together during the matches..

the location sugggested are as per below



there are no guarantee whatsoever from the organizers that the section is reserved so i hope yellow shirts can come early to the place...

this is not about converting lowly-cynical-selfish-national-traitor into bom-jacket-armed-farcist-nasionalist .... this is just a method so that people who want to make make a statement of support for the national team can sit together and be visible and counted..

i am sure a lot of people who came to this function are Chelsea fans who will either wear Chelsea blue or Malaysia Blue.... but for those who are not, there is no harm in wearing yellow.... if not for supporting your national team players, just do it for the occasion..... it will be a blue vs yellow event after all..

This post has been edited by aressandro10: May 26 2011, 05:49 PM

as i said earlier,
wearing NT kit is just too heavy for some.

That's where we differ. You are able to disassociate the sport of football from the politics.

Now while we aren't a third world country, I can't help but think that Malaysia has not reached her potential. I don't buy comparisons with countries that are worse off because unlke them, we had/have so much potential, mainly in terms of natural resources. The thing is when I see the football team, I see it being governed by the same people who I feel are more interested in serving their self interest than in the country. The same people who tell me I've a visitor in this country despite being born here and contribution to the economy. Do they tell you the same thing? No, because you are a citizen and I am a 'pendatang'. It's easier for you to ignore this than for I. Whilst you are immune I am not.

I'm not trying to convince you that all this should matter to you, I'm saying it does to me.

You are assuming that I don't support national sports at all. I still watch badminton.I went to Bukil Jalil when we last hosted the Thomas Cup. I still cheer when we have representatives in the Olympics. I just don't follow local football anymore.

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Added on May 26, 2011, 2:48 pmI would continue discussions with you but it's clear you don't understand the meaning of "empathy". Instead of trying to understand opinions opposed to yours, you choose to criticise them.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 26 2011, 02:48 PM

most of the sports in malaysia are managed by politicians dude

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Added on May 26, 2011, 3:06 pmi'm trying to understand u by criticizing. problems?

if u dont show why u dont support the team, how can i know what's ur problem at the first place

aiyyoo..u want me to tepuk ur belakang manja2 ka tanya elok2?

This post has been edited by nanamiwashio: May 26 2011, 03:06 PM

just because it was governed by the same people who governed our country,doesn't mean you should not support them.it's the people who are playing on the field is what matter the most.we support them.they are the one who need our support.